ham

[Jonas]

6 hours ago, Likelylad said:

I always wonder where we would have finished in 97/98 if Shearer doesn't get injured. 

I mean he's probably bagging what another 25 in the league. 

Uefa Cup places maybe?

No chance. We were awful. Even with Shearer we had to cheat Barnsley over Easter to stay just above the relegation places and had a worse record with him than without.

 

I personally like him  but Dalgish gets off lightly because of the PLC stuff and the idea he had to sell being somewhat mythical when he spent 48m in a year and a half (well higher than Keegan) recouping 25m - so spent net 23m to make us infinitely worse results wise, quality of football wise and drop us the fringes of relegation from challenging for the title.

Not the worst manager but I think he did the worst job with what he had to work with, took years to get back to close to where we were before another Liverpool numpty did a similar thing.

 

 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 20:00 by Jonas

[HaydnNUFC]

28 minutes ago, Jonas said:

No chance. We were awful. Even with Shearer we had to cheat Barnsley over Easter to stay just above the relegation places and had a worse record with him than without.

 

I personally like him  but Dalgish gets off lightly because of the PLC stuff and the idea he had to sell being somewhat mythical when he spent 48m in a year and a half (well higher than Keegan) recouping 25m - so spent net 23m to make us infinitely worse results wise, quality of football wise and drop us the fringes of relegation from challenging for the title.

Not the worst manager but I think he did the worst job with what he had to work with, took years to get back to close to where we were before another Liverpool numpty did a similar thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't understand why he dismantled Keegan's side when he appears to have done alright with it in the league on the face of it when he took over in 1996-97. Only 2 defeats, 33 goals scored in 16 games.

[kingxlnc]

1 hour ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

I don't understand why he dismantled Keegan's side when he appears to have done alright with it in the league on the face of it when he took over in 1996-97. Only 2 defeats, 33 goals scored in 16 games.

Agreed

such an overrated manager

 

was so pleased when he almost destroyed Liverpool in 2011 but they got rid before too much damage was done. Still spent 35m on Carroll 

[madras]

1 hour ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

I don't understand why he dismantled Keegan's side when he appears to have done alright with it in the league on the face of it when he took over in 1996-97. Only 2 defeats, 33 goals scored in 16 games.

Howey and Albert were getting injured regularly, Sir Les was sold to balance the Shearer signing then Shearer got injured, Beardsley legs were giving way, Ginola wanted away after Barce were interested.

 

It's quite probable Keegan left because there was a rebuild needed but the money wasn't there.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

2 hours ago, Jonas said:

No chance. We were awful. Even with Shearer we had to cheat Barnsley over Easter to stay just above the relegation places and had a worse record with him than without.

 

I personally like him  but Dalgish gets off lightly because of the PLC stuff and the idea he had to sell being somewhat mythical when he spent 48m in a year and a half (well higher than Keegan) recouping 25m - so spent net 23m to make us infinitely worse results wise, quality of football wise and drop us the fringes of relegation from challenging for the title.

Not the worst manager but I think he did the worst job with what he had to work with, took years to get back to close to where we were before another Liverpool numpty did a similar thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But that was Shearer recovering from injury.

 

Shearer stays fit then you get the double boost of his goals and JDT not struggling as the number 9.

 

It was scoring goals (or not) that killed us that season.

 

There is a question on who would be supplying the goals mind....

[Likelylad]

14 minutes ago, Colos Short and Curlies said:

 

But that was Shearer recovering from injury.

 

Shearer stays fit then you get the double boost of his goals and JDT not struggling as the number 9.

 

It was scoring goals (or not) that killed us that season.

 

There is a question on who would be supplying the goals mind....

Good shout regarding JDT. 

 

A midfield 3 of Batty, Lee & Speed is canny mind. 
 

Wasn’t that Shearer injury the one that led to him having to change his overall game?
 

I was only 9 and my memory is definitely lacking regarding that season outside of the CL & FA cup run. Especially compared the Previous 2 Keegan seasons. 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 22:43 by Likelylad

[SteV]

15 minutes ago, Colos Short and Curlies said:

 

There is a question on who would be supplying the goals mind....

[Colos Short and Curlies]

9 minutes ago, SteV said:

 

I remember going down to Bradford to watch the friendly arranged as part of the deal.

 

Not sure what was worse, Discos performance or Washington services

[Colos Short and Curlies]

11 minutes ago, Likelylad said:

Good shout regarding JDT. 

 

A midfield 3 of Batty, Lee & Speed is canny mind. 
 

Wasn’t that Shearer injury the one that led to him having to change his overall game?
 

I was only 9 and my memory is definitely lacking regarding that season outside of the CL & FA cup run. Especially compared the Previous 2 Keegan seasons. 

 

 

 

 

It's a great midfield bit limited supply to shearer.

 

We had Ketsbaia, a past it Gillespie and Barnes to play out wide. Watson at a push.... Actually I think we may have put Rush out left for a few games.

 

I suppose the £5m spent on Andersson could have gone elsewhere if Shearer had been fit.

 

And yes it was that injury that created Shearer 2.0

 

[El Prontonise]

Andersson cost £3m.

[Fak]

13 minutes ago, Colos Short and Curlies said:

 

It's a great midfield bit limited supply to shearer.

 

We had Ketsbaia, a past it Gillespie and Barnes to play out wide. Watson at a push.... Actually I think we may have put Rush out left for a few games.

 

I suppose the £5m spent on Andersson could have gone elsewhere if Shearer had been fit.

 

And yes it was that injury that created Shearer 2.0

 

Gillespie was past it? Surely he was only mid 20s? And he had ripped Barca apart? (I was only 7ish at the time mind)

[WilliamPS]

Dalglish sold Ginola and bought Des Hamilton, he utterly wrecked the club. He absolutely stuffed the squad with average players that took years to repair.

 

I agree it was funny to see him try and do it again to Liverpool, straight in for Charlie Adam etc. Shame they stopped him before he’s done the whole squad 

[madras]

10 minutes ago, WilliamPS said:

Dalglish sold Ginola and bought Des Hamilton, he utterly wrecked the club. He absolutely stuffed the squad with average players that took years to repair.

 

I agree it was funny to see him try and do it again to Liverpool, straight in for Charlie Adam etc. Shame they stopped him before he’s done the whole squad 

He also brought in Given, Speed, Solano, Hamman.

 

 

The squad needed rebuilding and the money wasn't there.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

19 minutes ago, Fak said:

Gillespie was past it? Surely he was only mid 20s? And he had ripped Barca apart? (I was only 7ish at the time mind)

 

Unfortunately yes, one of my favourite players but he was well on a very sudden decline.

 

Could still turn it on, like Barcelona, but that was increasingly the exception 

[kingxlnc]

To this day if Robson had replaced Keegan we’d have a PL title under our belt, even if not straightaway but during SBR’s tenure. Give him Keegans team without needing to tidy up all of Dalglish and Gullits mess and given his contact book plus maintaining NUFCs reputation as one of the biggest clubs back then, you’re probably seeing the likes of Zidane and Ronaldo play here.

[madras]

11 minutes ago, kingxlnc said:

To this day if Robson had replaced Keegan we’d have a PL title under our belt, even if not straightaway but during SBR’s tenure. Give him Keegans team without needing to tidy up all of Dalglish and Gullits mess and given his contact book plus maintaining NUFCs reputation as one of the biggest clubs back then, you’re probably seeing the likes of Zidane and Ronaldo play here.

The money wasn't there and we needed to replace 6 or 7 first teamers. Keegans team was falling to bits, it's why he left.

[kingxlnc]

9 minutes ago, madras said:

The money wasn't there and we needed to replace 6 or 7 first teamers. Keegans team was falling to bits, it's why he left.

I understand but Robson was a great coach whereas Dalglish was more of a manager. Robson would have made ends meet and made it work way better than Kenny.

[madras]

6 minutes ago, kingxlnc said:

I understand but Robson was a great coach whereas Dalglish was more of a manager. Robson would have made ends meet and made it work way better than Kenny.

So why didn't he win us a title later ?

 

SBR couldn't have made Albert or Howey play more then half a season, he couldn't have healed Shearer, he couldn't have changed the finances for Sir Les, he couldn't stop Beardsley ageing.

 

He might have turned Ginolas head back.

[WilliamPS]

7 hours ago, madras said:

He also brought in Given, Speed, Solano, Hamman.

 

 

The squad needed rebuilding and the money wasn't there.

Those 4 were a year later, the damage was done. Honestly I think it’s crazy to defend Dalglish. He took a fast attacking team and converted it in a year to a plodding slow side, a team that finished second to one that finished bottom half.

 

Even if second place wasn’t sustainable (Arsenal were on their way) it is a dreadful record.

[Keggy_Keagal]

He was awful for us . Though that brief period when he took over immediately post Keegan and started some games with Tino, Les and Shearer upfront saw some great football. If memory serves the Forest game was the pinnacle of that with Barton having a stormer as well.

[kingxlnc]

6 hours ago, madras said:

So why didn't he win us a title later ?

 

SBR couldn't have made Albert or Howey play more then half a season, he couldn't have healed Shearer, he couldn't have changed the finances for Sir Les, he couldn't stop Beardsley ageing.

 

He might have turned Ginolas head back.

He had to start from a way lower base. The first two years we finished 11th with the dross from Gullits and Dalglish teams. Eventually he built his own side.

 

yes a core of their players became key in SBR side (Given, Speed, Solano, Dyer) but given the chance to work with KK’s team from that high place we were in was infinitely better than when we did actually come in. 
 

Not only would we have had SBR 3 years earlier, where he was healthy and younger, we would have been getting him straight from Barca, where he had just managed Ronaldo, Pep, and Mourinho was his assistant. He would have probably come with him and our whole trajectory could have been different. Certainly the loss of reputation and prestige from finishing 13th and then 11th for four seasons really rammed home that the 2nd seasons were an anomaly instead of our rightful positions every year. Whereas taking Barcas manager who had just won 3 trophies could have gotten rid of our own trophy drought.
 

I would have trusted SBR to rebuild KKs side with his wisdom and nous than what KD and RG ended up doing that’s for sure. 

[madras]

42 minutes ago, kingxlnc said:

He had to start from a way lower base. The first two years we finished 11th with the dross from Gullits and Dalglish teams. Eventually he built his own side.

 

yes a core of their players became key in SBR side (Given, Speed, Solano, Dyer) but given the chance to work with KK’s team from that high place we were in was infinitely better than when we did actually come in. 
 

Not only would we have had SBR 3 years earlier, where he was healthy and younger, we would have been getting him straight from Barca, where he had just managed Ronaldo, Pep, and Mourinho was his assistant. He would have probably come with him and our whole trajectory could have been different. Certainly the loss of reputation and prestige from finishing 13th and then 11th for four seasons really rammed home that the 2nd seasons were an anomaly instead of our rightful positions every year. Whereas taking Barcas manager who had just won 3 trophies could have gotten rid of our own trophy drought.
 

I would have trusted SBR to rebuild KKs side with his wisdom and nous than what KD and RG ended up doing that’s for sure. 

What aren't you getting  ? KKs team was falling to bits and the money wasn't there to rebuild. SBR wouldn't have been working with prime Howey, Albert, Beardsley. Sales had to be made to pay for the Shearer move add in the long-term Injuries to Shearer and Asprilla

[kingxlnc]

34 minutes ago, madras said:

What aren't you getting  ? KKs team was falling to bits and the money wasn't there to rebuild. SBR wouldn't have been working with prime Howey, Albert, Beardsley. Sales had to be made to pay for the Shearer move add in the long-term Injuries to Shearer and Asprilla

It’s all hypothetical anyway 

but surely it’s not a big jump to assume that with SBR coming in having finished 2nd, even if a rebuild was required at that point, he’d have done a better job than the bloke who did actually do it and finished 13th with some of the most drab and dour football ever? 
 

Keegan was a motivator, admittedly not much of a coach. Dalglish was more of an overall manager. SBR was both of those plus an excellent coach who could improve players. So even if there was no money to spend I don’t think the drop off would have been as big. 

[Colos Short and Curlies]

1 hour ago, madras said:

What aren't you getting  ? KKs team was falling to bits and the money wasn't there to rebuild. SBR wouldn't have been working with prime Howey, Albert, Beardsley. Sales had to be made to pay for the Shearer move add in the long-term Injuries to Shearer and Asprilla

 

We outspent every other team in 97/98 on a gross basis and pretty much all on a net basis

[madras]

2 hours ago, Colos Short and Curlies said:

 

We outspent every other team in 97/98 on a gross basis and pretty much all on a net basis

And that wasn't enough for the rebuild needed. 3 centre halves, Beardsley, Shearer, Asprilla, Ginola, Ferdinand all gone or long-term injured.