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The Old Guard


TRon
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We often hear how important these guys are in the dressing room, Kinnear is constantly bigging up the likes of Butt, Owen and Given. Then there is Duff, Geremi and Beye who you could consider serious pros. Every club needs it's senior players but at what point does their presence become a hindrance not a help?

 

Owen leaves by example, and Shay Given is making noises to the same effect. Duff, and Butt don't have a bad attitude but while they are here they are automatic starters for the most part which isn't good enough.

 

No one can hold it against Owen or Given if they take the opportunity to better their careers if they get the chance, but would we be better off with younger, hungrier players who want to play for Newcastle in any case?

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when?  now or next season?

 

I was thinking of next season, as I expect Owen to leave and it looks like Given wants away as well. If we are losing our better senior players I don't see much point in holding on to the worse ones. Owen and Given are quality but the likes of Given in particular are held up as examples of great Newcastle pros. If their heart isn't in it any more I feel we should sell them on and try and get younger players in who are eager to prove themselves here.

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when?  now or next season?

 

I was thinking of next season, as I expect Owen to leave and it looks like Given wants away as well. If we are losing our better senior players I don't see much point in holding on to the worse ones. Owen and Given are quality but the likes of Given in particular are held up as examples of great Newcastle pros. If their heart isn't in it any more I feel we should sell them on and try and get younger players in who are eager to prove themselves here.

 

oh right aye, agree

 

what we've seen from duff, butt & smith as examples of experience they can fuck right off imo - take some gambles on young, hungry players, i'm all for it

 

look at who makes any kind of difference in the team we have now, owen (when fit) & given aside:

 

zog, martins, guthrie, bassong, jonas, colo & beye are alls i can think of...none of them long term experienced PL players of the likes you refer to...

 

said experienced PL players are basically the ones dragging us back; viduka, duff, smith, butt, shola...replace those five with some young, pacy, hungry players tomorrow from any league & i'd be a lot more confident of staying up this season

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when?  now or next season?

 

I was thinking of next season, as I expect Owen to leave and it looks like Given wants away as well. If we are losing our better senior players I don't see much point in holding on to the worse ones. Owen and Given are quality but the likes of Given in particular are held up as examples of great Newcastle pros. If their heart isn't in it any more I feel we should sell them on and try and get younger players in who are eager to prove themselves here.

 

oh right aye, agree

 

what we've seen from duff, butt & smith as examples of experience they can fuck right off imo - take some gambles on young, hungry players, i'm all for it

 

look at who makes any kind of difference in the team we have now, owen (when fit) & given aside:

 

zog, martins, guthrie, bassong, jonas, colo & beye are alls i can think of...none of them long term experienced PL players of the likes you refer to...

 

said experienced PL players are basically the ones dragging us back; viduka, duff, smith, butt, shola...replace those five with some young, pacy, hungry players tomorrow from any league & i'd be a lot more confident of staying up this season

 

Shay Given is someone who is usually quoted as a senior player in the dressing room, and Michael Owen is the captain. Both are now probably looking to jump ship, and I don't have any problem with either's reasons. But what sort of message does it send to the rest of the squad, especially as they are still being held up as examples to other players who struggle to hold down a place or have to rely on manager favourites getting crocked to earn a place?

 

They will be big losses but are not irreplaceable. Shay could be sold to the club he prefers and Harper could do a good job with Krul and Forster waiting to take their chance. Owen is leaving no matter what we do so he will need replacing regardless. Which other senior players are worth a light? Butt (  :lol: ) Geremi? Cacapa?

 

Old guard out. Young guns in.

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We often hear how important these guys are in the dressing room, Kinnear is constantly bigging up the likes of Butt, Owen and Given. Then there is Duff, Geremi and Beye who you could consider serious pros. Every club needs it's senior players but at what point does their presence become a hindrance not a help?

 

Owen leaves by example, and Shay Given is making noises to the same effect. Duff, and Butt don't have a bad attitude but while they are here they are automatic starters for the most part which isn't good enough.

 

No one can hold it against Owen or Given if they take the opportunity to better their careers if they get the chance, but would we be better off with younger, hungrier players who want to play for Newcastle in any case?

 

I agree with your basic point. There's a lack of leadership on the field (never more painfully exposed than against Liverpool) and I suspect off it as well. Owen is uncommitted and should never have been made the captain. Butt just doesn't look like a leader - he lacks initiative and often passes responsibility to others. Given often reacts with his emotions and that's what I think has happened here.

 

It's difficult then for the younger players to grasp the nettle, because the more senior players are blocking the way. Trouble is, I don't think there's an easy answer. The most obvious young leader is Barton, and he isn't available. Signing Ferguson might not be a bad idea, because he is a captain and is a better all round player than Butt.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

You need some senior players for the younger guys to look up to and for leadership on and off the pitch, experience is a great thing and it is supposed to bring reliability.

 

We will however need to find a few more next season and some that actually bring something on the pitch.

 

Owen, Given, Harper, Butt, Viduka, Cacapa, Geremi, Duff, Beye.

 

Would be suprised to see more than Beye still here this time next year.

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