Guest Edd Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 But everyone knew Keegan was a gamble when he first came in as manager. But at that time we were in the position where we couldn't have got a much better alternative. I'd like to think that now, even though we're not doing particularly well, as a Premier League club we could attract a director of football with more experience than Dennis Wise. Well feel free to continue slating Wise before he's had the chance to prove whether he's up to the job or not. After all, slagging players before they've had a chance seems to be the norm around here so why not extend it to everyone else too. I'll wait and judge him on the players he brings in. But with what happened at the start of the season is a decent pointer to think its dsprutive. Also the fact that important holes we're not filled in the squad. Would you like to tell us all exactly what happened at the start of the season and what part Wise played in it then, because nobody else knows? Do you think Dennis had nothing to do with events at Newcastle United around 31/08/08? There's every possibility Wise was involved, but we don't know how or to what extent, why Keegan actually left or whether either of them were acting outside of the job they were employed to do. If it's proved Wise caused the problem by acting outside of his remit then he deserves all the stick he gets, but I'm still waiting for some proof of that. Which is all very well & noble but this is message board people post on what they think & have a bit crack. It would be bit shit if people only discussed the actuals. Hey speculate away That's very different from passing off speculation and rumour as fact though. Anyway we all know Wise had nothing to do with it and Keegan just bottled it again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Surely the whole point is that there is nothing on Dennis Wise's cv to say he's suitable for either signing young players or first team players for a Premiership club. Maybe so, but even if that's true - being bad at the job he was brought in to do wouldn't suggest that he would then set about undermining Keegan and whatever else he's been accused of. I actually think he's done a decent job of indentifying young players. How do you know how good they are though? We won't be able to see that until a few years down the line with most of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hold on, if KK needs the money then surely he wouldn't have resigned? Some of the theories in here.... By the way football is all about judging and handling ability, you don't lose that after 3 years even if you haven't seen a game in those 3 years. Case in point. In training KK saw Michael Owen as a different player, switched his role, and bingo - result. That's called judging and handling talent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Wise is Ashleys little pet so therefore will always be a problem for any manager we have. Yeah okay he has spotted some good young talented players and if he was only our talent scout then I could put up with him but it seems he is not just finding talent but he is the one responcible for choosing who he try to sign, if Wise says no it don't happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc22 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 But everyone knew Keegan was a gamble when he first came in as manager. But at that time we were in the position where we couldn't have got a much better alternative. I'd like to think that now, even though we're not doing particularly well, as a Premier League club we could attract a director of football with more experience than Dennis Wise. Well feel free to continue slating Wise before he's had the chance to prove whether he's up to the job or not. After all, slagging players before they've had a chance seems to be the norm around here so why not extend it to everyone else too. I'll wait and judge him on the players he brings in. But with what happened at the start of the season is a decent pointer to think its dsprutive. Also the fact that important holes we're not filled in the squad. Would you like to tell us all exactly what happened at the start of the season and what part Wise played in it then, because nobody else knows? Do you think Dennis had nothing to do with events at Newcastle United around 31/08/08? There's every possibility Wise was involved, but we don't know how or to what extent, why Keegan actually left or whether either of them were acting outside of the job they were employed to do. If it's proved Wise caused the problem by acting outside of his remit then he deserves all the stick he gets, but I'm still waiting for some proof of that. But everyone knew Keegan was a gamble when he first came in as manager. But at that time we were in the position where we couldn't have got a much better alternative. I'd like to think that now, even though we're not doing particularly well, as a Premier League club we could attract a director of football with more experience than Dennis Wise. Well feel free to continue slating Wise before he's had the chance to prove whether he's up to the job or not. After all, slagging players before they've had a chance seems to be the norm around here so why not extend it to everyone else too. I'll wait and judge him on the players he brings in. But with what happened at the start of the season is a decent pointer to think its dsprutive. Also the fact that important holes we're not filled in the squad. Would you like to tell us all exactly what happened at the start of the season and what part Wise played in it then, because nobody else knows? Something happened which Keegan felt was bad enough to go, and that something is potentially signing a player/players that Keegan did not want. We dont know that for a fact, but people tend to believe Keegan, because of the fact he left. Regardless of what you believe happened, I dont believe that having a director of football bieng involved in player recruitment for the first team is a good thing. I believe it should be recruiting Academy players or nothing, the manager is the most important man and should be able to use whatever budget he has in the way he see's fit imo. Ah so you haven't got a clue then. Thought so. Not a clue? Keegan left because he claims a player/players we're brought in that he didnt want. We have a director of football at the club, theres some clue's in there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Wise doesn't actually spot the young kids, unnamed scouts do, he is the negotiator etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Wise doesn't actually spot the young kids, unnamed scouts do, he is the negotiator etc. hmmmmmmm well he has got us some kids that other clubs wanted but I would rather he was gone from this club along with Ashley. Fct is while 1 is here both will be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edd Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 But everyone knew Keegan was a gamble when he first came in as manager. But at that time we were in the position where we couldn't have got a much better alternative. I'd like to think that now, even though we're not doing particularly well, as a Premier League club we could attract a director of football with more experience than Dennis Wise. Well feel free to continue slating Wise before he's had the chance to prove whether he's up to the job or not. After all, slagging players before they've had a chance seems to be the norm around here so why not extend it to everyone else too. I'll wait and judge him on the players he brings in. But with what happened at the start of the season is a decent pointer to think its dsprutive. Also the fact that important holes we're not filled in the squad. Would you like to tell us all exactly what happened at the start of the season and what part Wise played in it then, because nobody else knows? Do you think Dennis had nothing to do with events at Newcastle United around 31/08/08? There's every possibility Wise was involved, but we don't know how or to what extent, why Keegan actually left or whether either of them were acting outside of the job they were employed to do. If it's proved Wise caused the problem by acting outside of his remit then he deserves all the stick he gets, but I'm still waiting for some proof of that. But everyone knew Keegan was a gamble when he first came in as manager. But at that time we were in the position where we couldn't have got a much better alternative. I'd like to think that now, even though we're not doing particularly well, as a Premier League club we could attract a director of football with more experience than Dennis Wise. Well feel free to continue slating Wise before he's had the chance to prove whether he's up to the job or not. After all, slagging players before they've had a chance seems to be the norm around here so why not extend it to everyone else too. I'll wait and judge him on the players he brings in. But with what happened at the start of the season is a decent pointer to think its dsprutive. Also the fact that important holes we're not filled in the squad. Would you like to tell us all exactly what happened at the start of the season and what part Wise played in it then, because nobody else knows? Something happened which Keegan felt was bad enough to go, and that something is potentially signing a player/players that Keegan did not want. We dont know that for a fact, but people tend to believe Keegan, because of the fact he left. Regardless of what you believe happened, I dont believe that having a director of football bieng involved in player recruitment for the first team is a good thing. I believe it should be recruiting Academy players or nothing, the manager is the most important man and should be able to use whatever budget he has in the way he see's fit imo. Ah so you haven't got a clue then. Thought so. Not a clue? Keegan left because he claims a player/players we're brought in that he didnt want. We have a director of football at the club, theres some clue's in there. Yeah but as I said, that doesn't prove that Wise, if he was involved, was doing anything other than what he was employed to do. If that's the case he's done absolutely nothing wrong. With the "facts" we have I could just as easily say that Keegan knew the structure he'd be working under when he joined. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yeah but as I said, that doesn't prove that Wise, if he was involved, was doing anything other than what he was employed to do. If that's the case he's done absolutely nothing wrong. With the "facts" we have I could just as easily say that Keegan knew the structure he'd be working under when he joined. oh dear, you've done it now... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timnufc22 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 But everyone knew Keegan was a gamble when he first came in as manager. But at that time we were in the position where we couldn't have got a much better alternative. I'd like to think that now, even though we're not doing particularly well, as a Premier League club we could attract a director of football with more experience than Dennis Wise. Well feel free to continue slating Wise before he's had the chance to prove whether he's up to the job or not. After all, slagging players before they've had a chance seems to be the norm around here so why not extend it to everyone else too. I'll wait and judge him on the players he brings in. But with what happened at the start of the season is a decent pointer to think its dsprutive. Also the fact that important holes we're not filled in the squad. Would you like to tell us all exactly what happened at the start of the season and what part Wise played in it then, because nobody else knows? Do you think Dennis had nothing to do with events at Newcastle United around 31/08/08? There's every possibility Wise was involved, but we don't know how or to what extent, why Keegan actually left or whether either of them were acting outside of the job they were employed to do. If it's proved Wise caused the problem by acting outside of his remit then he deserves all the stick he gets, but I'm still waiting for some proof of that. But everyone knew Keegan was a gamble when he first came in as manager. But at that time we were in the position where we couldn't have got a much better alternative. I'd like to think that now, even though we're not doing particularly well, as a Premier League club we could attract a director of football with more experience than Dennis Wise. Well feel free to continue slating Wise before he's had the chance to prove whether he's up to the job or not. After all, slagging players before they've had a chance seems to be the norm around here so why not extend it to everyone else too. I'll wait and judge him on the players he brings in. But with what happened at the start of the season is a decent pointer to think its dsprutive. Also the fact that important holes we're not filled in the squad. Would you like to tell us all exactly what happened at the start of the season and what part Wise played in it then, because nobody else knows? Something happened which Keegan felt was bad enough to go, and that something is potentially signing a player/players that Keegan did not want. We dont know that for a fact, but people tend to believe Keegan, because of the fact he left. Regardless of what you believe happened, I dont believe that having a director of football bieng involved in player recruitment for the first team is a good thing. I believe it should be recruiting Academy players or nothing, the manager is the most important man and should be able to use whatever budget he has in the way he see's fit imo. Ah so you haven't got a clue then. Thought so. Not a clue? Keegan left because he claims a player/players we're brought in that he didnt want. We have a director of football at the club, theres some clue's in there. Yeah but as I said, that doesn't prove that Wise, if he was involved, was doing anything other than what he was employed to do. If that's the case he's done absolutely nothing wrong. With the "facts" we have I could just as easily say that Keegan knew the structure he'd be working under when he joined. No we dont know for absolute certain, and it dosent PROVE it. If that did happen but someone else was more involved than Wise, then they are disruptive, or should I say if they are doing what they are employed to do than the system sis disruptive. People believe more on the side of Keegan because he walked out on the grounds he claimed, that we have this system in place, and that most people wouldnt believe he'd accept a system where players are bought over him if true. No-ones saying for a fact what happened, they are just very suspicious and tend to believe KK, because he walked out, and has said why. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edd Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yeah but as I said, that doesn't prove that Wise, if he was involved, was doing anything other than what he was employed to do. If that's the case he's done absolutely nothing wrong. With the "facts" we have I could just as easily say that Keegan knew the structure he'd be working under when he joined. oh dear, you've done it now... I'm sure there are some quotes from Keegan himself at the time that indicate as much Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yeah but as I said, that doesn't prove that Wise, if he was involved, was doing anything other than what he was employed to do. If that's the case he's done absolutely nothing wrong. With the "facts" we have I could just as easily say that Keegan knew the structure he'd be working under when he joined. oh dear, you've done it now... I'm sure there are some quotes from Keegan himself at the time that indicate as much you can prove any-fucking-thing with quotes though eh? like keegan approving of the sale of milner when in reality it was actually done by nasty mike in a cynical attempt to asset strip the club!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edd Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yeah but as I said, that doesn't prove that Wise, if he was involved, was doing anything other than what he was employed to do. If that's the case he's done absolutely nothing wrong. With the "facts" we have I could just as easily say that Keegan knew the structure he'd be working under when he joined. oh dear, you've done it now... I'm sure there are some quotes from Keegan himself at the time that indicate as much you can prove any-fucking-thing with quotes though eh? like keegan approving of the sale of milner when in reality it was actually done by nasty mike in a cynical attempt to asset strip the club!! You do realise a lot around here will think you're serious and are currently nodding in total agreement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yeah but as I said, that doesn't prove that Wise, if he was involved, was doing anything other than what he was employed to do. If that's the case he's done absolutely nothing wrong. With the "facts" we have I could just as easily say that Keegan knew the structure he'd be working under when he joined. oh dear, you've done it now... I'm sure there are some quotes from Keegan himself at the time that indicate as much you can prove any-fucking-thing with quotes though eh? like keegan approving of the sale of milner when in reality it was actually done by nasty mike in a cynical attempt to asset strip the club!! You do realise a lot around here will think you're serious and are currently nodding in total agreement aye, yeah, thinking about it you're right!! COCKNEY MAFIA OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gazmatron Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I like the idea of having someone in his role to find players etc. however surely there must be someone more qualified than Wise to do it? However hes done an alright job so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 He doesn't scout players, his main role is or was to build relations with local youth and amateur clubs and to create a network whereby any talent that exists within the North East goes through NUFC at some stage which it doesn't believe it or not, with most local youth clubs preferring sunderland and boro, or rather kids' parents. And who can blame them. I know during the summer Wise was working on that side of the academy/scouting and apparently getting somewhere although I've since heard such operations have basically been put on hold, probably due to the club being up for sale etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 He doesn't scout players, his main role is or was to build relations with local youth and amateur clubs and to create a network whereby any talent that exists within the North East goes through NUFC at some stage which it doesn't believe it or not, with most local youth clubs preferring sunderland and boro, or rather kids' parents. And who can blame them. I know during the summer Wise was working on that side of the academy/scouting and apparently getting somewhere although I've since heard such operations have basically been put on hold, probably due to the club being up for sale etc. Since Ashley is no longer selling you'd hope these operations were back on... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 All I know is plans developed in the summer have not been retaken back up, that doesn't mean they wont eventually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 No we dont know for absolute certain, and it dosent PROVE it. If that did happen but someone else was more involved than Wise, then they are disruptive, or should I say if they are doing what they are employed to do than the system sis disruptive. People believe more on the side of Keegan because he walked out on the grounds he claimed, that we have this system in place, and that most people wouldnt believe he'd accept a system where players are bought over him if true. No-ones saying for a fact what happened, they are just very suspicious and tend to believe KK, because he walked out, and has said why. That whole argument - "people believe Keegan because he walked out" is specious, verging on ridiculous. What the argument you've proposed boils down to is "people believe Keegan because Keegan said it, and if the Messiah said it, then it must be so" Contradictory quotes can be produced on both sides, but how do the Keegan lovers/Wise haters explain Keegan saying he was happy work with Wise (when Wise was appointed) with the LMA-issued claim that Wise undermined him when he left? As far as I'm concerned, the glare from Keegan's halo is blinding a lot of people. What's wrong with the simplest and most logical answer: that the serial bottler bottled it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stalker Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Simple fact is that Wise's job is to provide Newcastle with a squad that is capable of performing well in the Premiership, both now and in the future. It appears very clear that he has been unable to do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Libertine Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 No we dont know for absolute certain, and it dosent PROVE it. If that did happen but someone else was more involved than Wise, then they are disruptive, or should I say if they are doing what they are employed to do than the system sis disruptive. People believe more on the side of Keegan because he walked out on the grounds he claimed, that we have this system in place, and that most people wouldnt believe he'd accept a system where players are bought over him if true. No-ones saying for a fact what happened, they are just very suspicious and tend to believe KK, because he walked out, and has said why. That whole argument - "people believe Keegan because he walked out" is specious, verging on ridiculous. What the argument you've proposed boils down to is "people believe Keegan because Keegan said it, and if the Messiah said it, then it must be so" Contradictory quotes can be produced on both sides, but how do the Keegan lovers/Wise haters explain Keegan saying he was happy work with Wise (when Wise was appointed) with the LMA-issued claim that Wise undermined him when he left? As far as I'm concerned, the glare from Keegan's halo is blinding a lot of people. What's wrong with the simplest and most logical answer: that the serial bottler bottled it? where we you in 92-97? you're clearly not from the area so you wouldnt know what he means to us. etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I think he's got a fair point TBH, I love Keegan as much as anyone but he can't come out of this mess without his share of the blame. We would all be better off if he had just put the club before himself and stuck it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 where we you in 92-97? you're clearly not from the area so you wouldnt know what he means to us. etc. Correct, I'm not from the area. Yet I've still seen him take the huff from us twice, and Man Shitty, and En-ger-land... etc And thank you for proving my point about the blinding glare of his halo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stalker Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 I think he's got a fair point TBH, I love Keegan as much as anyone but he can't come out of this mess without his share of the blame. We would all be better off if he had just put the club before himself and stuck it out. His share of the blame is fairly minimal though. Yes if he'd stayed as manager we would have probably had a lot more points but he knew that this was a squad not capable of really achieving anything. He'd also been lied to by bosses and had to put up with a little muppet like Wise buying him s*** players and selling his good players from underneath him. From what I know a large reason why Keegan left last time was because the control of transfers had effectively been taken off him by Freddy Shepherd (rumours were he never really wanted shearer cos he knew it meant he had to sell Ferdinand the next summer to fund the second installment of the transfer). I'll always love KK and while he might be partly responsible for us going down, its a very very small part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Libertine Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 where we you in 92-97? you're clearly not from the area so you wouldnt know what he means to us. etc. Correct, I'm not from the area. Yet I've still seen him take the huff from us twice, and Man Shitty, and En-ger-land... etc And thank you for proving my point about the blinding glare of his halo the stuff i said was a joke, i agree with your post. thats just the usual shit that gets thrown back at anyone who dares question keegan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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