Guest optimistic nit Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 in the case of Ince and Adams it's more a case of inheriting poor/depleted squads than owt else tbh blackburn were ready to self distruct, not sure about pompey though, they looked good on paper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guinness_fiend Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Pampered over-paid dickfaces rarely make good leaders of men. I like the cut of your jib, Mr. ChezGiven. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 It's no wonder Shearer stays away. He must be laughing the likes of Adams, Ince & Keane (he never got on with any of them) jumped in to management and have effectively ended their careers at top level before its even begun. Even with Keane goading Shearer in to management, Shearer's stayed out, stayed on the outside of football looking in, and if he does decide to come in to the game, watching it from another angle for a while should surely benefit him in the future. Maybe its best for footballers, especially high profile players to give the game a break for a bit. See it from another angle and start enjoying the game as a fan again and falling in love with it from a totally different perspective. Other semi pro players or players cut short due to injury can make their name by rising through the ranks and that's fine, they've earned their spurs, but when it comes to household names coming in to management its best they sit it out for a while as this sink or swim policy is drowning a locker load of big for player to managerial names. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksammy Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Alot of people forget that just because you were a decent player wont necerseraliy make you a decent manager. Im studying this sort of stuff at uni and its v interesting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I'm sure some of these guys will still make it as decent managers but they have learnt a valuable lesson that you can't blood yourself in the top league. In every job you have to be given the chance to learn from your mistakes. That's how you become better at whatever job it is that you do. Managers simply have to gain experience in the lower leagues before managing in the Prem. The lower leagues are far more forgiving than the Premier League - managers are allowed to make mistakes and try new things which helps to improve their competence. This experience in invaluable and ensures that managers are better prepared when they make the step up eg. the knowledge of what it takes to stop a losing run, the most effective tactics to employ against certain systems, the best way to cope with injuries to key players etc. A multinational company wouldn't recruit a new MD from a small local business because they would be woefully out of their depth and 100% ceratin to fail. So why do Premier League clubs continue to make this fundamental mistake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 It's no wonder Shearer stays away. He must be laughing the likes of Adams, Ince & Keane (he never got on with any of them) jumped in to management and have effectively ended their careers at top level before its even begun. Even with Keane goading Shearer in to management, Shearer's stayed out, stayed on the outside of football looking in, and if he does decide to come in to the game, watching it from another angle for a while should surely benefit him in the future. Maybe its best for footballers, especially high profile players to give the game a break for a bit. See it from another angle and start enjoying the game as a fan again and falling in love with it from a totally different perspective. Other semi pro players or players cut short due to injury can make their name by rising through the ranks and that's fine, they've earned their spurs, but when it comes to household names coming in to management its best they sit it out for a while as this sink or swim policy is drowning a locker load of big for player to managerial names. I thought he had no balls? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 It's no wonder Shearer stays away. He must be laughing the likes of Adams, Ince & Keane (he never got on with any of them) jumped in to management and have effectively ended their careers at top level before its even begun. Even with Keane goading Shearer in to management, Shearer's stayed out, stayed on the outside of football looking in, and if he does decide to come in to the game, watching it from another angle for a while should surely benefit him in the future. Maybe its best for footballers, especially high profile players to give the game a break for a bit. See it from another angle and start enjoying the game as a fan again and falling in love with it from a totally different perspective. Other semi pro players or players cut short due to injury can make their name by rising through the ranks and that's fine, they've earned their spurs, but when it comes to household names coming in to management its best they sit it out for a while as this sink or swim policy is drowning a locker load of big for player to managerial names. I thought he had no balls? Shocked you didn't start a new thread to say that. Oh and Shearer hasn't got the balls to manage us. Other teams however... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 It's no wonder Shearer stays away. He must be laughing the likes of Adams, Ince & Keane (he never got on with any of them) jumped in to management and have effectively ended their careers at top level before its even begun. Even with Keane goading Shearer in to management, Shearer's stayed out, stayed on the outside of football looking in, and if he does decide to come in to the game, watching it from another angle for a while should surely benefit him in the future. Maybe its best for footballers, especially high profile players to give the game a break for a bit. See it from another angle and start enjoying the game as a fan again and falling in love with it from a totally different perspective. Other semi pro players or players cut short due to injury can make their name by rising through the ranks and that's fine, they've earned their spurs, but when it comes to household names coming in to management its best they sit it out for a while as this sink or swim policy is drowning a locker load of big for player to managerial names. I thought he had no balls? Shocked you didn't start a new thread to say that. Oh and Shearer hasn't got the balls to manage us. Other teams however... He will manage one day, but is the type to want everything right and in place first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 If we go down i'd like Shearer to come in and give it a go - he'd pretty much have everything to gain then. If we stay up i want someone with a bit of pedigree Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 It's no wonder Shearer stays away. He must be laughing the likes of Adams, Ince & Keane (he never got on with any of them) jumped in to management and have effectively ended their careers at top level before its even begun. Even with Keane goading Shearer in to management, Shearer's stayed out, stayed on the outside of football looking in, and if he does decide to come in to the game, watching it from another angle for a while should surely benefit him in the future. Maybe its best for footballers, especially high profile players to give the game a break for a bit. See it from another angle and start enjoying the game as a fan again and falling in love with it from a totally different perspective. Other semi pro players or players cut short due to injury can make their name by rising through the ranks and that's fine, they've earned their spurs, but when it comes to household names coming in to management its best they sit it out for a while as this sink or swim policy is drowning a locker load of big for player to managerial names. I thought he had no balls? Shocked you didn't start a new thread to say that. Oh and Shearer hasn't got the balls to manage us. Other teams however... You're only saying he doesn't have the balls because deep down, you'd love it if he said yes and are desperate for him to manage us. Its like your way of saying "I dare ya" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 By the way he'd need a lack of brains to take this job on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 It's no wonder Shearer stays away. He must be laughing the likes of Adams, Ince & Keane (he never got on with any of them) jumped in to management and have effectively ended their careers at top level before its even begun. Even with Keane goading Shearer in to management, Shearer's stayed out, stayed on the outside of football looking in, and if he does decide to come in to the game, watching it from another angle for a while should surely benefit him in the future. Maybe its best for footballers, especially high profile players to give the game a break for a bit. See it from another angle and start enjoying the game as a fan again and falling in love with it from a totally different perspective. Other semi pro players or players cut short due to injury can make their name by rising through the ranks and that's fine, they've earned their spurs, but when it comes to household names coming in to management its best they sit it out for a while as this sink or swim policy is drowning a locker load of big for player to managerial names. I thought he had no balls? Shocked you didn't start a new thread to say that. Oh and Shearer hasn't got the balls to manage us. Other teams however... You're only saying he doesn't have the balls because deep down, you'd love it if he said yes and are desperate for him to manage us. Its like your way of saying "I dare ya" Partly yes... being honest, most it it does stem from that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 It's no wonder Shearer stays away. He must be laughing the likes of Adams, Ince & Keane (he never got on with any of them) jumped in to management and have effectively ended their careers at top level before its even begun. Even with Keane goading Shearer in to management, Shearer's stayed out, stayed on the outside of football looking in, and if he does decide to come in to the game, watching it from another angle for a while should surely benefit him in the future. Maybe its best for footballers, especially high profile players to give the game a break for a bit. See it from another angle and start enjoying the game as a fan again and falling in love with it from a totally different perspective. Other semi pro players or players cut short due to injury can make their name by rising through the ranks and that's fine, they've earned their spurs, but when it comes to household names coming in to management its best they sit it out for a while as this sink or swim policy is drowning a locker load of big for player to managerial names. I thought he had no balls? Shocked you didn't start a new thread to say that. Oh and Shearer hasn't got the balls to manage us. Other teams however... You're only saying he doesn't have the balls because deep down, you'd love it if he said yes and are desperate for him to manage us. Its like your way of saying "I dare ya" Partly yes... being honest, most it it does stem from that. Me too mate. I'd love nothing better than for him to say aye and succeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SeattleToon Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I think that one of the reasons is that star players tend to be egocentric, poor listeners, and overcertain of their own abilities. Look at the people considered to be the top managers of the last twenty years. Combined number of caps earned as players by Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Jose Mourinho, Marcello Lippi, Arrigo Sacchi, Guus Hiddink, and Ottmar Hitzfield....zero. In fact, among the recent crop of great managers, only Giovanni Trappatoni ever was good enough as a player to play for his national team (he earned 17 caps for Italy), and I don't think he was ever considered to be a star as a player. In fact, most of the best managers were pretty mediocre players. You also have to look at the way they developed as managers. Several started out as youth team coaches and/or assistants. Mourinho was Bobby Robson's translator/assistant for several years. In contrast, the people talked about in this post were all star players, and most moved up to senior management far faster than more successful managers. If you want an example of how things should be done, look at Franco Baresi and how he is being groomed at AC Milan. Since entering managment in 2002, he's spent four seasons managing the Milan U-20's and is currently managing the Milan U-19's. He's now in his seventh year in managment without even the thought of managing a senior club. So if you want the simple answer as to why England's young managers suck, it's probably because their egos are too big and they didn't have enough experience before taking their first senior management jobs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobby_solano Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 do i remember baresi being a coach or something at fulham a few years ago? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sicko2ndbest Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Players who have their careers cut short through injuries (eg Brian Clough) Players who feel they did not get the adulation they deserved (eg O'Neill left out of European cup final team) have so much to prove which seems to be an added incentive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Tony Adams - Useless c***. Paul Ince - tried to take the easy route to the prem and paid the price for his inexperience. Paul Gascoigne - did anyone really think he would become a manager, let alone a half decent one? Stuart Pearce - Doing well with Englands U21s, found his level. David Platt - Useless c***. Gareth Southgate - Never thought he would become much, spunked 12 million quid Alfonso Bonzo, hes now paying the price. Thinkers make good managers, none of these are really thinkers bar Platt for me. THIS is the crucial point - people like Venables and Graham were thinkers and had a bit of know-how ; most of the names on this list were just decent players who hadn't had to work hard to earn vast amounts of money from the game...if you take the likes of Fergie and MON into the equation, it looks different..I KNOW they aren't 'English', but maybe that says something about the English education system since the 70's....! In the 60s/70s, people like Clough, Harry Catterick and Bob Paisley were legendary managers...all as English as they come and all three from the NE...as was Bob Nicholson for Spurs, although he was a Scarborough lad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Tony Adams - Useless c***. Paul Ince - tried to take the easy route to the prem and paid the price for his inexperience. Paul Gascoigne - did anyone really think he would become a manager, let alone a half decent one? Stuart Pearce - Doing well with Englands U21s, found his level. David Platt - Useless c***. Gareth Southgate - Never thought he would become much, spunked 12 million quid Alfonso Bonzo, hes now paying the price. Thinkers make good managers, none of these are really thinkers bar Platt for me. THIS is the crucial point - people like Venables and Graham were thinkers and had a bit of know-how ; most of the names on this list were just decent players who hadn't had to work hard to earn vast amounts of money from the game...if you take the likes of Fergie and MON into the equation, it looks different..I KNOW they aren't 'English', but maybe that says something about the English education system since the 70's....! In the 60s/70s, people like Clough, Harry Catterick and Bob Paisley were legendary managers...all as English as they come and all three from the NE...as was Bob Nicholson for Spurs, although he was a Scarborough lad. There are so many variables. I still have a feeling the FA coaching criteria isn't a patch on the Italian or French systems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Didn't Keegan say that the coaching badges are killing football? Reckons that had we won the league that season it would have changed football in this country forever. Now the courses teach people that if you don't concede you don't lose - he sees it as if you don't score you don't win. Would explain the mentalities of a lot of English managers that are about at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Didn't Keegan say that the coaching badges are killing football? Reckons that had we won the league that season it would have changed football in this country forever. Now the courses teach people that if you don't concede you don't lose - he sees it as if you don't score you don't win. Would explain the mentalities of a lot of English managers that are about at the moment. And all those def doing coaching badges and then having problems as managers. Actually reading up on the Scolari fallout, he was lamenting how little time he had (due to no of games) to work with the players, especially the midfield. In Brazil apparently they work with the midfield long and hard with 11 a side games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stozo Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Ince and Adams I feel for. Both at clubs that were selling off there squads and going into a rebuilding phase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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