Guest toonlass Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I don't think he cares enough about the club to want genuine success on the pitch. What do you think he wants then? Failure? he wants a profit, but doesn't understand that what he is doing will not succeed on the pitch. Pretty basic stuff. Why does it have to be explained again. So did Sir John and Shepherd! oh dear You think they didn't? Care to explain their salaries and the money they made when they sold their shares in the club? she - and you - have no idea whatsoever of the meaning of the rest of that post. Really? So Sir John and Fred only got involved with Newcastle United for altruistic purposes? Shame I didn't read the articles that said they gave the profits that they made back to Newcastle United when they left! Well, they saved the club from bankruptcy and administration. Don't you remember ? In the meantime, the spending you scorn gave you one of the countries top teams, more european and Champions League qualifications than everybody but 4 clubs, world class footballers, an expanded and transformed ground filled to capacity, a new training complext which had been needed since world war 2, and an increase in the value of the club from less than 1.25m quid to somewhere between 100m and 200m quid. Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion or any personalities though. They have nearly caused it too, leaving us with HUGE debts. Don't you remember? In the meantime you seem to forget that we finished 13th in the season before Ashley took over. Ok you can go on and on and on and on about the european football as much as you like, WE GET THE FUCKING MESSAGE and most of us agree that the football was amazing, but the club has been left in a financial crisis to get that football. We had just about exhausted our lines of credit. Are you so damn stupid that you cannot see that? Don't let the financial facts get in the way of your nostalgia by the way! don't let the fact that every successful club in the world has a shitload of debt change your opinion either, while you reject what you have seen since 1992 in favour of running the club like clubs such as Charlton Head in the sand eh? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I don't think he cares enough about the club to want genuine success on the pitch. What do you think he wants then? Failure? he wants a profit, but doesn't understand that what he is doing will not succeed on the pitch. Pretty basic stuff. Why does it have to be explained again. So did Sir John and Shepherd! oh dear You think they didn't? Care to explain their salaries and the money they made when they sold their shares in the club? she - and you - have no idea whatsoever of the meaning of the rest of that post. Really? So Sir John and Fred only got involved with Newcastle United for altruistic purposes? Shame I didn't read the articles that said they gave the profits that they made back to Newcastle United when they left! Well, they saved the club from bankruptcy and administration. Don't you remember ? In the meantime, the spending you scorn gave you one of the countries top teams, more european and Champions League qualifications than everybody but 4 clubs, world class footballers, an expanded and transformed ground filled to capacity, a new training complext which had been needed since world war 2, and an increase in the value of the club from less than 1.25m quid to somewhere between 100m and 200m quid. Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion or any personalities though. They have nearly caused it too, leaving us with HUGE debts. Don't you remember? In the meantime you seem to forget that we finished 13th in the season before Ashley took over. Ok you can go on and on and on and on about the european football as much as you like, WE GET THE FUCKING MESSAGE and most of us agree that the football was amazing, but the club has been left in a financial crisis to get that football. We had just about exhausted our lines of credit. Are you so damn stupid that you cannot see that? Don't let the financial facts get in the way of your nostalgia by the way! don't let the fact that every successful club in the world has a shitload of debt change your opinion either, while you reject what you have seen since 1992 in favour of running the club like clubs such as Charlton Quote me where I have said that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 don't let the fact that every successful club in the world has a shitload of debt change your opinion either, while you reject what you have seen since 1992 in favour of running the club like clubs such as Charlton The successful clubs can pay off debts when due, we couldn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 According to Doug Ellis Lerner looked at Newcastle and Everton but was put off by the clubs debts, quite clearly Llambias wasn't talking about being an exact copy of Villa though and was talking about being able to push on up the league like they have and try and crack the top 4, I'm sure Ashley would like to be in the position that Lerner is in and any money he puts into the club can go into strengthening the first team rather than helping pay for the day to day running of the club but we will get there soon enough. The clubs annual loses are slowly coming down from £34m in 2007 to £20m in 2008 and a predicted loss of £7m in 2009 so they are turning it around. that projected loss relies on the big gamble of avoiding relegation. personally i think ashley would have been better served releasing a bit to help the chances of staying up in order to protect his initial investment. we are getting somewhere here. where are we getting ? i'm quite happy for ashley to spend his personal cash on improving us but i wouldn't dream of having a go at him for not spending even more of his personal cash. can you tell the difference between that and borrowing more and more from the banks ? have it your way. We are going down, due to Ashley's cost cutting, and no doubt the 50,000 capacity crowds will cram into the ground just like before, and the revenue won't be affected in the slightest. so do you think we should have kept on borrowing,creating more and more debt until either success or bankruptcy ? (i've covered the debts others,i've said fred done well for a while,i thought dalglish was a good appointment and was got rid of too early..................................is there anything i haven't covered in your usual non-answers ?) Don't expect an answer to that. the previous post contains all the facts. Don't let them change your opinion though, shame you can't remember can't find an answer there to the question.......so do you think we should have kept on borrowing,creating more and more debt until either success or bankruptcy ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 why ? Do you think the current situation is anywhere near as bad as 1991, because I can assure you that it is nowhere near. Turnover to debt were almost identical and we were coming out of a recession, not going into a potential depression. mackems.gif aye, like it really nailed us to the floor of the old 2nd division, and didn't effect anybody else Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Quote me where I have said that! He listens to this while posting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I don't think he cares enough about the club to want genuine success on the pitch. What do you think he wants then? Failure? he wants a profit, but doesn't understand that what he is doing will not succeed on the pitch. Pretty basic stuff. Why does it have to be explained again. So did Sir John and Shepherd! oh dear You think they didn't? Care to explain their salaries and the money they made when they sold their shares in the club? she - and you - have no idea whatsoever of the meaning of the rest of that post. Really? So Sir John and Fred only got involved with Newcastle United for altruistic purposes? Shame I didn't read the articles that said they gave the profits that they made back to Newcastle United when they left! Well, they saved the club from bankruptcy and administration. Don't you remember ? In the meantime, the spending you scorn gave you one of the countries top teams, more european and Champions League qualifications than everybody but 4 clubs, world class footballers, an expanded and transformed ground filled to capacity, a new training complext which had been needed since world war 2, and an increase in the value of the club from less than 1.25m quid to somewhere between 100m and 200m quid. Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion or any personalities though. They have nearly caused it too, leaving us with HUGE debts. Don't you remember? In the meantime you seem to forget that we finished 13th in the season before Ashley took over. Ok you can go on and on and on and on about the european football as much as you like, WE GET THE FUCKING MESSAGE and most of us agree that the football was amazing, but the club has been left in a financial crisis to get that football. We had just about exhausted our lines of credit. Are you so damn stupid that you cannot see that? Don't let the financial facts get in the way of your nostalgia by the way! don't let the fact that every successful club in the world has a shitload of debt change your opinion either, while you reject what you have seen since 1992 in favour of running the club like clubs such as Charlton Quote me where I have said that! eh ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I don't think he cares enough about the club to want genuine success on the pitch. What do you think he wants then? Failure? he wants a profit, but doesn't understand that what he is doing will not succeed on the pitch. Pretty basic stuff. Why does it have to be explained again. So did Sir John and Shepherd! oh dear You think they didn't? Care to explain their salaries and the money they made when they sold their shares in the club? she - and you - have no idea whatsoever of the meaning of the rest of that post. Really? So Sir John and Fred only got involved with Newcastle United for altruistic purposes? Shame I didn't read the articles that said they gave the profits that they made back to Newcastle United when they left! Well, they saved the club from bankruptcy and administration. Don't you remember ? In the meantime, the spending you scorn gave you one of the countries top teams, more european and Champions League qualifications than everybody but 4 clubs, world class footballers, an expanded and transformed ground filled to capacity, a new training complext which had been needed since world war 2, and an increase in the value of the club from less than 1.25m quid to somewhere between 100m and 200m quid. Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion or any personalities though. They have nearly caused it too, leaving us with HUGE debts. Don't you remember? In the meantime you seem to forget that we finished 13th in the season before Ashley took over. Ok you can go on and on and on and on about the european football as much as you like, WE GET THE FUCKING MESSAGE and most of us agree that the football was amazing, but the club has been left in a financial crisis to get that football. We had just about exhausted our lines of credit. Are you so damn stupid that you cannot see that? Don't let the financial facts get in the way of your nostalgia by the way! don't let the fact that every successful club in the world has a shitload of debt change your opinion either, while you reject what you have seen since 1992 in favour of running the club like clubs such as Charlton Quote me where I have said that! eh ? Question too hard for you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 mackems.gif aye, like it really nailed us to the floor of the old 2nd division, and didn't effect anybody else The debt did nail us back in '91 and could have done the same this time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 NE5. Were you proud of the Halls and the Shepherds when they were slagging off every single Newcastle United supporter while drinking in a spanish brothel? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 NE5. Were you proud of the Halls and the Shepherds when they were slagging off every single Newcastle United supporter while drinking in a spanish brothel? Yup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I don't think he cares enough about the club to want genuine success on the pitch. What do you think he wants then? Failure? he wants a profit, but doesn't understand that what he is doing will not succeed on the pitch. Pretty basic stuff. Why does it have to be explained again. So did Sir John and Shepherd! oh dear You think they didn't? Care to explain their salaries and the money they made when they sold their shares in the club? she - and you - have no idea whatsoever of the meaning of the rest of that post. Really? So Sir John and Fred only got involved with Newcastle United for altruistic purposes? Shame I didn't read the articles that said they gave the profits that they made back to Newcastle United when they left! Well, they saved the club from bankruptcy and administration. Don't you remember ? In the meantime, the spending you scorn gave you one of the countries top teams, more european and Champions League qualifications than everybody but 4 clubs, world class footballers, an expanded and transformed ground filled to capacity, a new training complext which had been needed since world war 2, and an increase in the value of the club from less than 1.25m quid to somewhere between 100m and 200m quid. Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion or any personalities though. They have nearly caused it too, leaving us with HUGE debts. Don't you remember? In the meantime you seem to forget that we finished 13th in the season before Ashley took over. Ok you can go on and on and on and on about the european football as much as you like, WE GET THE FUCKING MESSAGE and most of us agree that the football was amazing, but the club has been left in a financial crisis to get that football. We had just about exhausted our lines of credit. Are you so damn stupid that you cannot see that? Don't let the financial facts get in the way of your nostalgia by the way! don't let the fact that every successful club in the world has a shitload of debt change your opinion either, while you reject what you have seen since 1992 in favour of running the club like clubs such as Charlton Quote me where I have said that! eh ? Question too hard for you? Do you prefer the club to show ambition, or do you prefer to be run like Charlton. I know its difficult, but try not to put personalities first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 NE5. Were you proud of the Halls and the Shepherds when they were slagging off every single Newcastle United supporter while drinking in a spanish brothel? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 NE5. Were you proud of the Halls and the Shepherds when they were slagging off every single Newcastle United supporter while drinking in a spanish brothel? I couldn't give a toss. It beats selling your best players and competing for years at the level of the Charltons of this world any day. Did all those who faked mock outrage give up their Cup Final tickets a few months later, and the season after, out of principle ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 NE5. Were you proud of the Halls and the Shepherds when they were slagging off every single Newcastle United supporter while drinking in a spanish brothel? I couldn't give a toss. It beats selling your best players and competing for years at the level of the Charltons of this world any day. Did all those who faked mock outrage give up their Cup Final tickets a few months later, and the season after, out of principle ? You couldn't give a toss? Ok, right aye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I couldn't give a toss. It beats selling your best players and competing for years at the level of the Charltons of this world any day. Did all those who faked mock outrage give up their Cup Final tickets a few months later, and the season after, out of principle ? Without Ashley, how would we have paid our bills? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I couldn't give a toss. It beats selling your best players and competing for years at the level of the Charltons of this world any day. Did all those who faked mock outrage give up their Cup Final tickets a few months later, and the season after, out of principle ? Without Ashley, how would we have paid our bills? He won't answer that. He doesn't know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I couldn't give a toss. It beats selling your best players and competing for years at the level of the Charltons of this world any day. Did all those who faked mock outrage give up their Cup Final tickets a few months later, and the season after, out of principle ? Without Ashley, how would we have paid our bills? They planned to put some of their own money in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I couldn't give a toss. It beats selling your best players and competing for years at the level of the Charltons of this world any day. Did all those who faked mock outrage give up their Cup Final tickets a few months later, and the season after, out of principle ? Without Ashley, how would we have paid our bills? They planned to put some of their own money in. Oh man I just spat Grolsch out my nose Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazy Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I couldn't give a toss. It beats selling your best players and competing for years at the level of the Charltons of this world any day. Did all those who faked mock outrage give up their Cup Final tickets a few months later, and the season after, out of principle ? Without Ashley, how would we have paid our bills? They planned to put some of their own money in. Oh man I just spat Grolsch out my nose Banks don't do loans you can't pay for very often - you have to guarantee it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I couldn't give a toss. It beats selling your best players and competing for years at the level of the Charltons of this world any day. Did all those who faked mock outrage give up their Cup Final tickets a few months later, and the season after, out of principle ? Without Ashley, how would we have paid our bills? They planned to put some of their own money in. Oh man I just spat Grolsch out my nose That'll be even more impressive if you're not actually drinking it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 i must say resorting to 'well other clubs can do it, so we must be able to' seems a bit, well, like he hasnt really thought it through Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I couldn't give a toss. It beats selling your best players and competing for years at the level of the Charltons of this world any day. Did all those who faked mock outrage give up their Cup Final tickets a few months later, and the season after, out of principle ? Without Ashley, how would we have paid our bills? They planned to put some of their own money in. Oh man I just spat Grolsch out my nose That'll be even more impressive if you're not actually drinking it. Who said I was drinking it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I couldn't give a toss. It beats selling your best players and competing for years at the level of the Charltons of this world any day. Did all those who faked mock outrage give up their Cup Final tickets a few months later, and the season after, out of principle ? Without Ashley, how would we have paid our bills? They planned to put some of their own money in. Oh man I just spat Grolsch out my nose Banks don't do loans you can't pay for very often - you have to guarantee it. http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/ridsdales-grand-dreams-bankrupted-by-debts-on-balance-sheet-596293.html Ridsdale's grand dreams bankrupted by debts on balance sheet By Nick Harris Saturday, 1 February 2003 On 26 September 2001, Leeds United considerably extended their debts by issuing £60m in 25-year "loan notes" – effectively taking out a £60m mortgage, guaranteed against future season-ticket sales. On 26 September 2001, Leeds United considerably extended their debts by issuing £60m in 25-year "loan notes" – effectively taking out a £60m mortgage, guaranteed against future season-ticket sales. The money was borrowed at a fixed annual interest rate of 7.695 per cent. The first repayment of interest on the loan was more than £4m. Capital repayments will not start until September 2004. The annual repayments will then be around £7m. But that's for the future. The minutiae in the loan agreement speaks volumes about the current financial crisis at Elland Road. The club, with chairman Peter Ridsdale as gambler-in-chief, paid £890,000 in fees to arrange the loan. It borrowed money even to pay those fees. Ridsdale, incidentally, has been paid £1m by the club in the past two years. A million here, a million there, so the debts have risen. But the loan was only necessary in the first place because of spending – by David O'Leary, with Ridsdale's backing – on players and wages. By the end of the 1999-00 season, O'Leary, who had taken over from George Graham in late 1998, had bought 11 players costing around £34.4m, having sold players for around £19m. His purchases included Danny Mills, Michael Bridges and Olivier Dacourt. It seemed a good deal because Leeds finished third and gained access to the Champions' League. During the season that saw the run to the Champions' League semi-final in 2001, O'Leary signed five more players, including Mark Viduka, Rio Ferdinand and Robbie Keane, for a total outlay of £36m. He sold nine players for £9m. The deficit of £27m was made worse by a huge rise in the wage bill. The damage was already being done. Failure to qualify for the following season's Champions' League, in 2001-02 (and again the next year), only compounded the situation. No Champions' League meant a reduction in annual income of around £15m per year. O'Leary paid with his job. Since O'Leary took over at Elland Road, Leeds have spent around £90m on players. Revenue from sales, before yesterday's offloading of Jonathan Woodgate to Newcastle, had been around £68m. Even this does not tell the whole story. That £68m in receipts might not actually materialise. In the cases of Ferdinand and Robbie Fowler, for example, the full fee is contingent on the players' success. To be fair, that was also the case with Fowler's move from Liverpool to Elland Road and Keane's from Internazionale. The increase in the club's wage bill in the last few years has also been crippling. In the year to June 2002, the wage bill was £53.6m, up £10m on the previous year. These figures come from Leeds' annual report of 2002. The same report showed that the club made a loss of £34m in the previous year. The club's net debts, on 30 June 2002, had risen to £77.9m, and that was after the sale of Ferdinand (£30m) and Keane (£7m). No wonder Ridsdale sold Ferdinand to Manchester United. He was desperate for the cash, which made all the proclamations about Ferdinand's lack of loyalty shallow indeed. Keane's departure was another necessary sale. It helped curb the debts and also removed around £1m from the wage bill. Lee Bowyer's departure was also primarily a question of cutting the wage bill. Ditto Fowler, whose stay at Elland Road will see a net deficit of at least £5m in transfer fees, plus his wages for 14 months. Woodgate's departure will also cut the wage bill and the £9m fee will allow further stabilisation of the balance sheet. How quickly things change. "Our aim is to become the clear No 2 club in the country behind Manchester United," Adam Pearson, then the Leeds commercial director, said in December 1999 as Leeds sat atop the Premiership. "The football is central to everything and Peter Ridsdale has had the bottle to push on rather than consolidate." Pearson is now running Hull City. One last quote. "Of all the great clubs I have worked with in football, none have had the infrastructure, commitment and potential of Leeds United. The team has all the necessary qualities to become the country's best for years to come." So said Terry Venables, in inch-high letters that filled a whole page in the Leeds 2002 Annual Report Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 As NE5 would say. "But we are Newcastle, we have had European football, we would never get debts we couldn't afford to repay. We had lovely, beautiful football. We were never in a state where we couldn't afford to repay it back." Aye bollocks NE5, we could have (and still could be) the next Leeds for the very same reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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