Lets all give thanks to uncle Mike....

[DJ_NUFC]

I thought Ashley was doing what he's doing to ensure at the very least we don't go into administration?

[Happy Face]

I thought Ashley was doing what he's doing to ensure at the very least we don't go into administration?

 

If we go down, I'm guessing it'll take him more than the £15m a year he's willing to put in to stop it happening.

 

I might be wrong though.

[ChezGiven]

I thought Ashley was doing what he's doing to ensure at the very least we don't go into administration?

 

If we go down, I'm guessing it'll take him more than the £15m a year he's willing to put in to stop it happening.

 

I might be wrong though.

 

Am not so sure.

 

How many championship games can you watch on sky, setanta or illegally through streams or foreign broadcast for one team in a given season?

[mrmojorisin75]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/article5877222.ece

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/mar/09/la-liga-valencia-unai-emery-david-villa

 

 

the titles a piss take obviously, but these two articles really made me think this morning - the Valencia one is especially terrifying, complete madness to be honest

 

still early so i'm not 100% sure where i'm going with this but when talking about owners NE5 once said something along the lines of "be careful what you wish for"...none of us are remotely happy with MA but things could be much, much worse imo

 

if we manage to stay up and progress gradually i just wonder how this period will be looked upon in years to come 'cause i think things are gonna get a lot worse financially for clubs before they get better

 

[dons tin hat]

 

so the only way we will qualify regularly for europe under Mike Ashley is if half the teams in the country go bust ?

 

Don't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

I think it is far more likely that in 10 years time or longer we will look back on the league positions and european qualifications since 1992 with great fondness.

 

Does anybody in fact know what we will owe Mike Ashley if or when he sells the club ?

 

 

 

what THE FUCK are you talking about?

[themanupstairs]

If people are prepared to accept the shambles that has been NUFC over the course of this(and other)seasons, they deserve all they are, and will, get.

 

Face facts - Ashley, for all his good intentions(are they, I wonder?), has messed up jumbo style.

 

I cannot think of ONE thing he has done this season which has put the club on a better footing.

 

That sentence in bold is probably one of the biggest piles of dogshit I have ever read on this forum

 

This is the problem with anti-Ashley posters and the likes of the NUSC. Banging on about what's been done wrong without even attempting to acknowledge the point of the original post, which is about clubs going facing real financial difficulties if they spend beyond their means without any proportionate success. Does this sound like any club in particular?

 

 

This is the problem about those who have bought into Ashley's propaganda and have posted on this thread without correctly interpreting what others have said - there was absolutely NOTHING in my posting which mentioned Ashley's spend - if you look again , you will see that I said he has messed up Jumbo style ; this has nothing to do with the spend but EVERYTHING to do with his decision-making...and I stand by that 100 % , as would anyone unless they think that creating a situation where KK walks out, employing a third-rater like Kinnear after making an abortive effort to sell the club(and then offering him a 2 year contract) etc etc...is good management.

 

not arguing with any of that like, but i love the chelp that Happy Face has railed off into about spending on managers under ashley after a massive amount of the debt ashley paid off was built up by the previous owners in appointing s*** managers on big contracts, allowing them to spend a fortune on s*** players then sacking them and paying them off

 

you couldn't make it up

 

Ashley hasn't paid it off.  He's changed the lender....to himself...so we save on the interest.

 

Ashley has sacked managers at a rate 3 times more frequent than Shepherd did.  Why do you support this course of action while deriding it from the previous chairman?

 

 

But I don't see a problem in Ashley being repaid the loans he has made to the club.  After all, if it was a PLC the shareholder(s) would all be entitled to dividends from the club each year.  Is it really so dreadful to expect to be repaid for loans made to the club.

 

It makes sound business sense to me, and once the loans are repaid, and providing the club is on a stable financial footing, then the club will, if run sensibly along the lines now set out by Ashley, generate ample funds for player purchases for years to come.  Hopefully players will want to play for NUFC for the kudos of playing for a top well run and successful club, rather than that last big payday.

 

I have no problem whatsoever with him loaning the club money interest free rather than a bank.

 

It's just as beneficial for him as it is for the club.  We save on interest and loan repayments until he sells.  And just like the banks, he gets the full amount back, even if players he's signed decrease in value to zero and we're left with a shitty squad fighting relegation year after year.

 

 

 

Started off brightly but you still insisted on twisting a perfectly good and reasonable post to fit your agenda

 

How's that man?

 

It's just as good for Ashley being the clubs moneylender as it is for the club.

 

There's no negativity in that, no underhand, money laundering, assett stripping conspiracy theory.  Just a fact that it's a common sense approach for both parties.

 

I'd have thought my agenda would be the same as yours.  We want Newcastle to do better in the league.

 

But that's my point exactly. It does not matter to me if it's beneficial to Ashley as well. I couldn't care less what Ashley does or benefits from the club, so long as Newcastle United is better off as a result. He has made several serious errors in judgment, but one cannot ignore the massive job being done in terms of re-structuring the club's finances, and bringing on the youth policy, to ensure our survival as a football club once this whole crisis has blown over.

 

Nail on head.

 

Are we?

 

Do you truly believe the under 18's and a low rate of interest on our borrowing are the things stopping our inevitable implosion?

 

We clearly haven't been better off on the pitch in the short term. But it's a long and complicated process, trying to halt the slide we were on when the previous board had sold up. All things considered, including the uncontrollable economical climate, we could still come out of it in a better position than we would have had we owed everything to creditors.

 

Only time will tell HF mate. Only time will tell.

[themanupstairs]

The articles in the OP really bring reality rapping at your door. These are tough times for football, and really makes you wonder where all the people are now who made it work so well for all those years. The more money the game earned the more 'fleas' it attacted in bloodsucking, neanderthalean owners trying to find a quick road to success.

 

In any case, I think over the past few months it has led me to feel a strong communal responsibility towards the game, even more so than before. Let's hope things do start to get better.

 

Dont forget the role that was played by football agents in all this time

[Happy Face]

If people are prepared to accept the shambles that has been NUFC over the course of this(and other)seasons, they deserve all they are, and will, get.

 

Face facts - Ashley, for all his good intentions(are they, I wonder?), has messed up jumbo style.

 

I cannot think of ONE thing he has done this season which has put the club on a better footing.

 

That sentence in bold is probably one of the biggest piles of dogshit I have ever read on this forum

 

This is the problem with anti-Ashley posters and the likes of the NUSC. Banging on about what's been done wrong without even attempting to acknowledge the point of the original post, which is about clubs going facing real financial difficulties if they spend beyond their means without any proportionate success. Does this sound like any club in particular?

 

 

This is the problem about those who have bought into Ashley's propaganda and have posted on this thread without correctly interpreting what others have said - there was absolutely NOTHING in my posting which mentioned Ashley's spend - if you look again , you will see that I said he has messed up Jumbo style ; this has nothing to do with the spend but EVERYTHING to do with his decision-making...and I stand by that 100 % , as would anyone unless they think that creating a situation where KK walks out, employing a third-rater like Kinnear after making an abortive effort to sell the club(and then offering him a 2 year contract) etc etc...is good management.

 

not arguing with any of that like, but i love the chelp that Happy Face has railed off into about spending on managers under ashley after a massive amount of the debt ashley paid off was built up by the previous owners in appointing s*** managers on big contracts, allowing them to spend a fortune on s*** players then sacking them and paying them off

 

you couldn't make it up

 

Ashley hasn't paid it off.  He's changed the lender....to himself...so we save on the interest.

 

Ashley has sacked managers at a rate 3 times more frequent than Shepherd did.  Why do you support this course of action while deriding it from the previous chairman?

 

 

But I don't see a problem in Ashley being repaid the loans he has made to the club.  After all, if it was a PLC the shareholder(s) would all be entitled to dividends from the club each year.  Is it really so dreadful to expect to be repaid for loans made to the club.

 

It makes sound business sense to me, and once the loans are repaid, and providing the club is on a stable financial footing, then the club will, if run sensibly along the lines now set out by Ashley, generate ample funds for player purchases for years to come.  Hopefully players will want to play for NUFC for the kudos of playing for a top well run and successful club, rather than that last big payday.

 

I have no problem whatsoever with him loaning the club money interest free rather than a bank.

 

It's just as beneficial for him as it is for the club.  We save on interest and loan repayments until he sells.  And just like the banks, he gets the full amount back, even if players he's signed decrease in value to zero and we're left with a shitty squad fighting relegation year after year.

 

 

 

Started off brightly but you still insisted on twisting a perfectly good and reasonable post to fit your agenda

 

How's that man?

 

It's just as good for Ashley being the clubs moneylender as it is for the club.

 

There's no negativity in that, no underhand, money laundering, assett stripping conspiracy theory.  Just a fact that it's a common sense approach for both parties.

 

I'd have thought my agenda would be the same as yours.  We want Newcastle to do better in the league.

 

But that's my point exactly. It does not matter to me if it's beneficial to Ashley as well. I couldn't care less what Ashley does or benefits from the club, so long as Newcastle United is better off as a result. He has made several serious errors in judgment, but one cannot ignore the massive job being done in terms of re-structuring the club's finances, and bringing on the youth policy, to ensure our survival as a football club once this whole crisis has blown over.

 

Nail on head.

 

Are we?

 

Do you truly believe the under 18's and a low rate of interest on our borrowing are the things stopping our inevitable implosion?

 

We clearly haven't been better off on the pitch in the short term. But it's a long and complicated process, trying to halt the slide we were on when the previous board had sold up. All things considered, including the uncontrollable economical climate, we could still come out of it in a better position than we would have had we owed everything to creditors.

 

Only time will tell HF mate. Only time will tell.

 

I put the same question to you that wasn't answered elsewhere.

 

Do you think an improved under 18s team and an improved rate of interest on our debt will see us start climbing the league?

 

What changes are planned to make sure we aren't fighting relegation next season?

[cp40]

If people are prepared to accept the shambles that has been NUFC over the course of this(and other)seasons, they deserve all they are, and will, get.

 

Face facts - Ashley, for all his good intentions(are they, I wonder?), has messed up jumbo style.

 

I cannot think of ONE thing he has done this season which has put the club on a better footing.

 

That sentence in bold is probably one of the biggest piles of dogshit I have ever read on this forum

 

This is the problem with anti-Ashley posters and the likes of the NUSC. Banging on about what's been done wrong without even attempting to acknowledge the point of the original post, which is about clubs going facing real financial difficulties if they spend beyond their means without any proportionate success. Does this sound like any club in particular?

 

 

This is the problem about those who have bought into Ashley's propaganda and have posted on this thread without correctly interpreting what others have said - there was absolutely NOTHING in my posting which mentioned Ashley's spend - if you look again , you will see that I said he has messed up Jumbo style ; this has nothing to do with the spend but EVERYTHING to do with his decision-making...and I stand by that 100 % , as would anyone unless they think that creating a situation where KK walks out, employing a third-rater like Kinnear after making an abortive effort to sell the club(and then offering him a 2 year contract) etc etc...is good management.

 

not arguing with any of that like, but i love the chelp that Happy Face has railed off into about spending on managers under ashley after a massive amount of the debt ashley paid off was built up by the previous owners in appointing s*** managers on big contracts, allowing them to spend a fortune on s*** players then sacking them and paying them off

 

you couldn't make it up

 

Ashley hasn't paid it off.  He's changed the lender....to himself...so we save on the interest.

 

Ashley has sacked managers at a rate 3 times more frequent than Shepherd did.  Why do you support this course of action while deriding it from the previous chairman?

 

 

But I don't see a problem in Ashley being repaid the loans he has made to the club.  After all, if it was a PLC the shareholder(s) would all be entitled to dividends from the club each year.  Is it really so dreadful to expect to be repaid for loans made to the club.

 

It makes sound business sense to me, and once the loans are repaid, and providing the club is on a stable financial footing, then the club will, if run sensibly along the lines now set out by Ashley, generate ample funds for player purchases for years to come.  Hopefully players will want to play for NUFC for the kudos of playing for a top well run and successful club, rather than that last big payday.

 

I have no problem whatsoever with him loaning the club money interest free rather than a bank.

 

It's just as beneficial for him as it is for the club.  We save on interest and loan repayments until he sells.  And just like the banks, he gets the full amount back, even if players he's signed decrease in value to zero and we're left with a shitty squad fighting relegation year after year.

 

 

 

Started off brightly but you still insisted on twisting a perfectly good and reasonable post to fit your agenda

 

How's that man?

 

It's just as good for Ashley being the clubs moneylender as it is for the club.

 

There's no negativity in that, no underhand, money laundering, assett stripping conspiracy theory.  Just a fact that it's a common sense approach for both parties.

 

I'd have thought my agenda would be the same as yours.  We want Newcastle to do better in the league.

 

But that's my point exactly. It does not matter to me if it's beneficial to Ashley as well. I couldn't care less what Ashley does or benefits from the club, so long as Newcastle United is better off as a result. He has made several serious errors in judgment, but one cannot ignore the massive job being done in terms of re-structuring the club's finances, and bringing on the youth policy, to ensure our survival as a football club once this whole crisis has blown over.

 

Nail on head.

 

Are we?

 

Do you truly believe the under 18's and a low rate of interest on our borrowing are the things stopping our inevitable implosion?

 

We clearly haven't been better off on the pitch in the short term. But it's a long and complicated process, trying to halt the slide we were on when the previous board had sold up. All things considered, including the uncontrollable economical climate, we could still come out of it in a better position than we would have had we owed everything to creditors.

 

Only time will tell HF mate. Only time will tell.

 

I put the same question to you that wasn't answered elsewhere.

 

Do you think an improved under 18s team and an improved rate of interest on our debt will see us start climbing the league?

 

What changes are planned to make sure we aren't fighting relegation next season?

 

 

we will be, from the prem, or the championship

[mrmojorisin75]

 

Do you think an improved under 18s team and an improved rate of interest on our debt will see us start climbing the league?

 

What changes are planned to make sure we aren't fighting relegation next season?

 

- to the first one short term no, long term perhaps as your question omits many other factors

 

- to the second one how the fuck should we know?  they look likely to be minimal though from what i can see

 

so, for you; do you think continuing to increase the clubs debt to dangerous levels by signing more past it overpaid wasters would have seen the club climb the league?

 

any fucking idiot can weight a question in their favour man

[Happy Face]

 

Do you think an improved under 18s team and an improved rate of interest on our debt will see us start climbing the league?

 

What changes are planned to make sure we aren't fighting relegation next season?

 

- to the first one short term no, long term perhaps as your question omits many other factors

 

- to the second one how the fuck should we know?  they look likely to be minimal though from what i can see

 

so, for you; do you think continuing to increase the clubs debt to dangerous levels by signing more past it overpaid wasters would have seen the club climb the league?

 

any fucking idiot can weight a question in their favour man

 

The weight in my question reflected the only benefits I've heard people say Ashley has brought to the club.  I'll gladly listen to any other things I might have missed that he's done to push us on.

 

To answer your question, no, I don't think we should sign overpaid wasters.  The likes of Viduka, Barton, Smith, Duff and Geremi are a drain on our resources.

 

We need more signings like Owen who attracts as much revenue as he costs even when he's not fit.  Players who sell strips and make us attractive to Asian TV networks.

 

But debt has no bearing on league position.  That should be left to the money men. 

 

More important is a competent manager, allowed to do his job and given the tools he feels he needs to do it.  And a confident squad, assured that they are going places if they stay at the club, rather than pining for a move to more ambitious clubs....like Wigan.

 

 

[NG32]

What past it, over paid players have we acctually bought/brought in since Freddy, then Ashley have been running the club?

 

Cacapa

Butt

Geremi

Viduka

 

 

 

 

 

[themanupstairs]

What past it, over paid players have we acctually bought/brought in since Freddy, then Ashley have been running the club?

 

Cacapa

Butt

Geremi

Viduka

 

 

 

 

 

 

Butt was signed under SBR, and if I'm not mistaken, Geremi was signed before FS sold up.

 

Viduka had scored 19 goals for Boro the season before he joined us. So one could argue he wasn't totally past it.

[NG32]

Sorry didn't explain myself very well,  people keep mentioning these washed up players

 

Can we list all these overpaid/past it up players we have signed since the begining of freddys run of the club and the few years Ashley has had.

 

 

Names that spring to mind,

 

Cacapa

Butt

Geremi

Viduka

 

 

 

[themanupstairs]

If people are prepared to accept the shambles that has been NUFC over the course of this(and other)seasons, they deserve all they are, and will, get.

 

Face facts - Ashley, for all his good intentions(are they, I wonder?), has messed up jumbo style.

 

I cannot think of ONE thing he has done this season which has put the club on a better footing.

 

That sentence in bold is probably one of the biggest piles of dogshit I have ever read on this forum

 

This is the problem with anti-Ashley posters and the likes of the NUSC. Banging on about what's been done wrong without even attempting to acknowledge the point of the original post, which is about clubs going facing real financial difficulties if they spend beyond their means without any proportionate success. Does this sound like any club in particular?

 

 

This is the problem about those who have bought into Ashley's propaganda and have posted on this thread without correctly interpreting what others have said - there was absolutely NOTHING in my posting which mentioned Ashley's spend - if you look again , you will see that I said he has messed up Jumbo style ; this has nothing to do with the spend but EVERYTHING to do with his decision-making...and I stand by that 100 % , as would anyone unless they think that creating a situation where KK walks out, employing a third-rater like Kinnear after making an abortive effort to sell the club(and then offering him a 2 year contract) etc etc...is good management.

 

not arguing with any of that like, but i love the chelp that Happy Face has railed off into about spending on managers under ashley after a massive amount of the debt ashley paid off was built up by the previous owners in appointing s*** managers on big contracts, allowing them to spend a fortune on s*** players then sacking them and paying them off

 

you couldn't make it up

 

Ashley hasn't paid it off.  He's changed the lender....to himself...so we save on the interest.

 

Ashley has sacked managers at a rate 3 times more frequent than Shepherd did.  Why do you support this course of action while deriding it from the previous chairman?

 

 

But I don't see a problem in Ashley being repaid the loans he has made to the club.  After all, if it was a PLC the shareholder(s) would all be entitled to dividends from the club each year.  Is it really so dreadful to expect to be repaid for loans made to the club.

 

It makes sound business sense to me, and once the loans are repaid, and providing the club is on a stable financial footing, then the club will, if run sensibly along the lines now set out by Ashley, generate ample funds for player purchases for years to come.  Hopefully players will want to play for NUFC for the kudos of playing for a top well run and successful club, rather than that last big payday.

 

I have no problem whatsoever with him loaning the club money interest free rather than a bank.

 

It's just as beneficial for him as it is for the club.  We save on interest and loan repayments until he sells.  And just like the banks, he gets the full amount back, even if players he's signed decrease in value to zero and we're left with a shitty squad fighting relegation year after year.

 

 

 

Started off brightly but you still insisted on twisting a perfectly good and reasonable post to fit your agenda

 

How's that man?

 

It's just as good for Ashley being the clubs moneylender as it is for the club.

 

There's no negativity in that, no underhand, money laundering, assett stripping conspiracy theory.  Just a fact that it's a common sense approach for both parties.

 

I'd have thought my agenda would be the same as yours.  We want Newcastle to do better in the league.

 

But that's my point exactly. It does not matter to me if it's beneficial to Ashley as well. I couldn't care less what Ashley does or benefits from the club, so long as Newcastle United is better off as a result. He has made several serious errors in judgment, but one cannot ignore the massive job being done in terms of re-structuring the club's finances, and bringing on the youth policy, to ensure our survival as a football club once this whole crisis has blown over.

 

Nail on head.

 

Are we?

 

Do you truly believe the under 18's and a low rate of interest on our borrowing are the things stopping our inevitable implosion?

 

We clearly haven't been better off on the pitch in the short term. But it's a long and complicated process, trying to halt the slide we were on when the previous board had sold up. All things considered, including the uncontrollable economical climate, we could still come out of it in a better position than we would have had we owed everything to creditors.

 

Only time will tell HF mate. Only time will tell.

 

I put the same question to you that wasn't answered elsewhere.

 

Do you think an improved under 18s team and an improved rate of interest on our debt will see us start climbing the league?

 

What changes are planned to make sure we aren't fighting relegation next season?

 

Well the idea of collecting rising youth talent from around the globe, and developing them, may save us a few pennies here and there when building a squad. If we're diligent and lucky, we could unearth one or two stars. The one thing I am still hoping for is that we sign a top top class youth coach with a track record of working with kids. Otherwise the whole plan is futile. I don't know much about Dickie Dollar, but I was hoping for someone like Roeder who has done it in the past. Joe Hart wouldn't be a bad shout either.

 

Improving the interest rate on our debt will save us a few more bob as well. Adding bits of bobs to one another would increase transfer budget, hence giving us a better chance of buying better players.

 

What Ashley REALLY needs to do now is to bring in a top quality manager. Keegan was one of course, but he was the wrong choice for so many reasons. Kinnear clearly isn't, and Ashley has got to realize this and move him on at the end of the season.

 

 

[themanupstairs]

Sorry didn't explain myself very well,  people keep mentioning these washed up players

 

Can we list all these overpaid/past it up players we have signed since the begining of freddys run of the club and the few years Ashley has had.

 

 

Names that spring to mind,

 

Cacapa

Butt

Geremi

Viduka

 

 

 

 

Cacapa was bought on a free as an experienced squad player

Butt was a 29 yr old England international who had learned everything he knows about football from Roy Keane and Alex Ferguson

Geremi was signed on a free

Viduka had scored 19 goals for Boro the season before he joined us. Signed on a free

 

IMO the wasters we signed are the ones who haven't played as much football in return for the transfer fees+wages that had been spent on them

 

Owen

Duff

Barton

Viduka (if you consider wages)

Smith

Luque

[Happy Face]

If people are prepared to accept the shambles that has been NUFC over the course of this(and other)seasons, they deserve all they are, and will, get.

 

Face facts - Ashley, for all his good intentions(are they, I wonder?), has messed up jumbo style.

 

I cannot think of ONE thing he has done this season which has put the club on a better footing.

 

That sentence in bold is probably one of the biggest piles of dogshit I have ever read on this forum

 

This is the problem with anti-Ashley posters and the likes of the NUSC. Banging on about what's been done wrong without even attempting to acknowledge the point of the original post, which is about clubs going facing real financial difficulties if they spend beyond their means without any proportionate success. Does this sound like any club in particular?

 

 

This is the problem about those who have bought into Ashley's propaganda and have posted on this thread without correctly interpreting what others have said - there was absolutely NOTHING in my posting which mentioned Ashley's spend - if you look again , you will see that I said he has messed up Jumbo style ; this has nothing to do with the spend but EVERYTHING to do with his decision-making...and I stand by that 100 % , as would anyone unless they think that creating a situation where KK walks out, employing a third-rater like Kinnear after making an abortive effort to sell the club(and then offering him a 2 year contract) etc etc...is good management.

 

not arguing with any of that like, but i love the chelp that Happy Face has railed off into about spending on managers under ashley after a massive amount of the debt ashley paid off was built up by the previous owners in appointing s*** managers on big contracts, allowing them to spend a fortune on s*** players then sacking them and paying them off

 

you couldn't make it up

 

Ashley hasn't paid it off.  He's changed the lender....to himself...so we save on the interest.

 

Ashley has sacked managers at a rate 3 times more frequent than Shepherd did.  Why do you support this course of action while deriding it from the previous chairman?

 

 

But I don't see a problem in Ashley being repaid the loans he has made to the club.  After all, if it was a PLC the shareholder(s) would all be entitled to dividends from the club each year.  Is it really so dreadful to expect to be repaid for loans made to the club.

 

It makes sound business sense to me, and once the loans are repaid, and providing the club is on a stable financial footing, then the club will, if run sensibly along the lines now set out by Ashley, generate ample funds for player purchases for years to come.  Hopefully players will want to play for NUFC for the kudos of playing for a top well run and successful club, rather than that last big payday.

 

I have no problem whatsoever with him loaning the club money interest free rather than a bank.

 

It's just as beneficial for him as it is for the club.  We save on interest and loan repayments until he sells.  And just like the banks, he gets the full amount back, even if players he's signed decrease in value to zero and we're left with a shitty squad fighting relegation year after year.

 

 

 

Started off brightly but you still insisted on twisting a perfectly good and reasonable post to fit your agenda

 

How's that man?

 

It's just as good for Ashley being the clubs moneylender as it is for the club.

 

There's no negativity in that, no underhand, money laundering, assett stripping conspiracy theory.  Just a fact that it's a common sense approach for both parties.

 

I'd have thought my agenda would be the same as yours.  We want Newcastle to do better in the league.

 

But that's my point exactly. It does not matter to me if it's beneficial to Ashley as well. I couldn't care less what Ashley does or benefits from the club, so long as Newcastle United is better off as a result. He has made several serious errors in judgment, but one cannot ignore the massive job being done in terms of re-structuring the club's finances, and bringing on the youth policy, to ensure our survival as a football club once this whole crisis has blown over.

 

Nail on head.

 

Are we?

 

Do you truly believe the under 18's and a low rate of interest on our borrowing are the things stopping our inevitable implosion?

 

We clearly haven't been better off on the pitch in the short term. But it's a long and complicated process, trying to halt the slide we were on when the previous board had sold up. All things considered, including the uncontrollable economical climate, we could still come out of it in a better position than we would have had we owed everything to creditors.

 

Only time will tell HF mate. Only time will tell.

 

I put the same question to you that wasn't answered elsewhere.

 

Do you think an improved under 18s team and an improved rate of interest on our debt will see us start climbing the league?

 

What changes are planned to make sure we aren't fighting relegation next season?

 

Well the idea of collecting rising youth talent from around the globe, and developing them, may save us a few pennies here and there when building a squad. If we're diligent and lucky, we could unearth one or two stars. The one thing I am still hoping for is that we sign a top top class youth coach with a track record of working with kids. Otherwise the whole plan is futile. I don't know much about Dickie Dollar, but I was hoping for someone like Roeder who has done it in the past. Joe Hart wouldn't be a bad shout either.

 

Improving the interest rate on our debt will save us a few more bob as well. Adding bits of bobs to one another would increase transfer budget, hence giving us a better chance of buying better players.

 

What Ashley REALLY needs to do now is to bring in a top quality manager. Keegan was one of course, but he was the wrong choice for so many reasons. Kinnear clearly isn't, and Ashley has got to realize this and move him on at the end of the season.

 

 

 

Completeley agree with all 3 points (except maybe Keegan being the wrong man - he's probably the only man that could have kept us up last year).

 

The first two pale behind the third one which is vital....and doesn't seem to be forthcoming.

[Guest float one in]

If we stay up it will be more in spite of what the current regime has done than because of it. We have bought some decent players since Ashley has been here but net profit in the transfer window, 1 point above the bottom three and JFK in charge are facts that speak for themselves - its not good enough.

 

I am of the opinion that pretty much the only way to achieve success (and for NUFC that should mean regular top four finishes and the odd trophy at least, given our support) is for chairmen/owners to back their managers sufficiently. This was the foundation for the success that we enjoyed under the old board when KK and SBR were the managers. However the situation we found ourselves in before Ashley bought us was that the previous regime had backed a dud, which was largely responsible for getting us into a financial position that, although it was probably not desperate then, could very well have proved pretty disastrous in time, judging by what is written in those two articles and what we know about what is happening with the economy in general.

 

I realise that this is all 'ifs' and 'buts', mind. Its also easy to suggest that if Ashley hadnt bought the club Sheperd might have backed Allardyce and allowed him to buy the players he wanted rather than the likes of Cacapa and Rosenhal, who he admitted he had to settle for after missing out on his first choices during the turmoil of the buy out. However the truly dire football he had us playing, and the fact that he paid 6 million for Smith (who is on a massive contract), suggested that even with better backing Allardyce wouldn't have got us challenging for the top 4. And where would the money to back him have come from anyway?

 

If we manage to stay up this season and alot of clubs do get into bother financially, it is possible that we might end up feeling grateful to Ashley for inadvertently saving our club (I say inadvertently because I firmly believe everything he has done so far has been solely in the interests of making more money for himself (not that there's anything wrong with that in itself, like) and doubt saving NUFC from the impending global financial crisis was one of his objectives when he stumped up the original 138 million!

[themanupstairs]

If we stay up it will be more in spite of what the current regime has done than because of it. We have bought some decent players since Ashley has been here but net profit in the transfer window, 1 point above the bottom three and JFK in charge are facts that speak for themselves - its not good enough.

 

I am of the opinion that pretty much the only way to achieve success (and for NUFC that should mean regular top four finishes and the odd trophy at least, given our support) is for chairmen/owners to back their managers sufficiently. This was the foundation for the success that we enjoyed under the old board when KK and SBR were the managers. However the situation we found ourselves in before Ashley bought us was that the previous regime had backed a dud, which was largely responsible for getting us into a financial position that, although it was probably not desperate then, could very well have proved pretty disastrous in time, judging by what is written in those two articles and what we know about what is happening with the economy in general.

 

I realise that this is all 'ifs' and 'buts', mind. Its also easy to suggest that if Ashley hadnt bought the club Sheperd might have backed Allardyce and allowed him to buy the players he wanted rather than the likes of Cacapa and Rosenhal, who he admitted he had to settle for after missing out on his first choices during the turmoil of the buy out. However the truly dire football he had us playing, and the fact that he paid 6 million for Smith (who is on a massive contract), suggested that even with better backing Allardyce wouldn't have got us challenging for the top 4. And where would the money to back him have come from anyway?

 

If we manage to stay up this season and alot of clubs do get into bother financially, it is possible that we might end up feeling grateful to Ashley for inadvertently saving our club (I say inadvertently because I firmly believe everything he has done so far has been solely in the interests of making more money for himself (not that there's anything wrong with that in itself, like) and doubt saving NUFC from the impending global financial crisis was one of his objectives when he stumped up the original 138 million!

 

Terrific post

[madras]

If people are prepared to accept the shambles that has been NUFC over the course of this(and other)seasons, they deserve all they are, and will, get.

 

Face facts - Ashley, for all his good intentions(are they, I wonder?), has messed up jumbo style.

 

I cannot think of ONE thing he has done this season which has put the club on a better footing.

 

That sentence in bold is probably one of the biggest piles of dogshit I have ever read on this forum

 

This is the problem with anti-Ashley posters and the likes of the NUSC. Banging on about what's been done wrong without even attempting to acknowledge the point of the original post, which is about clubs going facing real financial difficulties if they spend beyond their means without any proportionate success. Does this sound like any club in particular?

 

 

This is the problem about those who have bought into Ashley's propaganda and have posted on this thread without correctly interpreting what others have said - there was absolutely NOTHING in my posting which mentioned Ashley's spend - if you look again , you will see that I said he has messed up Jumbo style ; this has nothing to do with the spend but EVERYTHING to do with his decision-making...and I stand by that 100 % , as would anyone unless they think that creating a situation where KK walks out, employing a third-rater like Kinnear after making an abortive effort to sell the club(and then offering him a 2 year contract) etc etc...is good management.

 

not arguing with any of that like, but i love the chelp that Happy Face has railed off into about spending on managers under ashley after a massive amount of the debt ashley paid off was built up by the previous owners in appointing s*** managers on big contracts, allowing them to spend a fortune on s*** players then sacking them and paying them off

 

you couldn't make it up

 

Ashley hasn't paid it off.  He's changed the lender....to himself...so we save on the interest.

 

Ashley has sacked managers at a rate 3 times more frequent than Shepherd did.  Why do you support this course of action while deriding it from the previous chairman?

 

 

But I don't see a problem in Ashley being repaid the loans he has made to the club.  After all, if it was a PLC the shareholder(s) would all be entitled to dividends from the club each year.  Is it really so dreadful to expect to be repaid for loans made to the club.

 

It makes sound business sense to me, and once the loans are repaid, and providing the club is on a stable financial footing, then the club will, if run sensibly along the lines now set out by Ashley, generate ample funds for player purchases for years to come.  Hopefully players will want to play for NUFC for the kudos of playing for a top well run and successful club, rather than that last big payday.

 

I have no problem whatsoever with him loaning the club money interest free rather than a bank.

 

It's just as beneficial for him as it is for the club.  We save on interest and loan repayments until he sells.  And just like the banks, he gets the full amount back, even if players he's signed decrease in value to zero and we're left with a shitty squad fighting relegation year after year.

 

 

 

Started off brightly but you still insisted on twisting a perfectly good and reasonable post to fit your agenda

 

How's that man?

 

It's just as good for Ashley being the clubs moneylender as it is for the club.

 

There's no negativity in that, no underhand, money laundering, assett stripping conspiracy theory.  Just a fact that it's a common sense approach for both parties.

 

I'd have thought my agenda would be the same as yours.  We want Newcastle to do better in the league.

 

But that's my point exactly. It does not matter to me if it's beneficial to Ashley as well. I couldn't care less what Ashley does or benefits from the club, so long as Newcastle United is better off as a result. He has made several serious errors in judgment, but one cannot ignore the massive job being done in terms of re-structuring the club's finances, and bringing on the youth policy, to ensure our survival as a football club once this whole crisis has blown over.

 

Nail on head.

 

Are we?

 

Do you truly believe the under 18's and a low rate of interest on our borrowing are the things stopping our inevitable implosion?

 

We clearly haven't been better off on the pitch in the short term. But it's a long and complicated process, trying to halt the slide we were on when the previous board had sold up. All things considered, including the uncontrollable economical climate, we could still come out of it in a better position than we would have had we owed everything to creditors.

 

Only time will tell HF mate. Only time will tell.

 

I put the same question to you that wasn't answered elsewhere.

 

Do you think an improved under 18s team and an improved rate of interest on our debt will see us start climbing the league?

 

What changes are planned to make sure we aren't fighting relegation next season?

 

Well the idea of collecting rising youth talent from around the globe, and developing them, may save us a few pennies here and there when building a squad. If we're diligent and lucky, we could unearth one or two stars. The one thing I am still hoping for is that we sign a top top class youth coach with a track record of working with kids. Otherwise the whole plan is futile. I don't know much about Dickie Dollar, but I was hoping for someone like Roeder who has done it in the past. Joe Hart wouldn't be a bad shout either.

 

Improving the interest rate on our debt will save us a few more bob as well. Adding bits of bobs to one another would increase transfer budget, hence giving us a better chance of buying better players.

 

What Ashley REALLY needs to do now is to bring in a top quality manager. Keegan was one of course, but he was the wrong choice for so many reasons. Kinnear clearly isn't, and Ashley has got to realize this and move him on at the end of the season.

 

 

 

Completeley agree with all 3 points (except maybe Keegan being the wrong man - he's probably the only man that could have kept us up last year).

 

The first two pale behind the third one which is vital....and doesn't seem to be forthcoming.

agree about keegan of the time but not so sure he was the right man to take us forward after the end of last season.

[Happy Face]

If we stay up it will be more in spite of what the current regime has done than because of it. We have bought some decent players since Ashley has been here but net profit in the transfer window, 1 point above the bottom three and JFK in charge are facts that speak for themselves - its not good enough.

 

I am of the opinion that pretty much the only way to achieve success (and for NUFC that should mean regular top four finishes and the odd trophy at least, given our support) is for chairmen/owners to back their managers sufficiently. This was the foundation for the success that we enjoyed under the old board when KK and SBR were the managers. However the situation we found ourselves in before Ashley bought us was that the previous regime had backed a dud, which was largely responsible for getting us into a financial position that, although it was probably not desperate then, could very well have proved pretty disastrous in time, judging by what is written in those two articles and what we know about what is happening with the economy in general.

 

I realise that this is all 'ifs' and 'buts', mind. Its also easy to suggest that if Ashley hadnt bought the club Sheperd might have backed Allardyce and allowed him to buy the players he wanted rather than the likes of Cacapa and Rosenhal, who he admitted he had to settle for after missing out on his first choices during the turmoil of the buy out. However the truly dire football he had us playing, and the fact that he paid 6 million for Smith (who is on a massive contract), suggested that even with better backing Allardyce wouldn't have got us challenging for the top 4. And where would the money to back him have come from anyway?

 

If we manage to stay up this season and alot of clubs do get into bother financially, it is possible that we might end up feeling grateful to Ashley for inadvertently saving our club (I say inadvertently because I firmly believe everything he has done so far has been solely in the interests of making more money for himself (not that there's anything wrong with that in itself, like) and doubt saving NUFC from the impending global financial crisis was one of his objectives when he stumped up the original 138 million!

 

Terrific post

 

 

He left an open bracket hanging though 

 

Personally I find it cold comfort that Ashley might have inadvertantly ridden the credit crunch less close to the knuckle than other Premier league chairmen....none of who's clubs have actually gone under....yet.

 

It's like thanking Josef Fritzl for keeping Elizabeth out of danger all those years, if you ask me.

[Guest float one in]

If we stay up it will be more in spite of what the current regime has done than because of it. We have bought some decent players since Ashley has been here but net profit in the transfer window, 1 point above the bottom three and JFK in charge are facts that speak for themselves - its not good enough.

 

I am of the opinion that pretty much the only way to achieve success (and for NUFC that should mean regular top four finishes and the odd trophy at least, given our support) is for chairmen/owners to back their managers sufficiently. This was the foundation for the success that we enjoyed under the old board when KK and SBR were the managers. However the situation we found ourselves in before Ashley bought us was that the previous regime had backed a dud, which was largely responsible for getting us into a financial position that, although it was probably not desperate then, could very well have proved pretty disastrous in time, judging by what is written in those two articles and what we know about what is happening with the economy in general.

 

I realise that this is all 'ifs' and 'buts', mind. Its also easy to suggest that if Ashley hadnt bought the club Sheperd might have backed Allardyce and allowed him to buy the players he wanted rather than the likes of Cacapa and Rosenhal, who he admitted he had to settle for after missing out on his first choices during the turmoil of the buy out. However the truly dire football he had us playing, and the fact that he paid 6 million for Smith (who is on a massive contract), suggested that even with better backing Allardyce wouldn't have got us challenging for the top 4. And where would the money to back him have come from anyway?

 

If we manage to stay up this season and alot of clubs do get into bother financially, it is possible that we might end up feeling grateful to Ashley for inadvertently saving our club (I say inadvertently because I firmly believe everything he has done so far has been solely in the interests of making more money for himself (not that there's anything wrong with that in itself, like) and doubt saving NUFC from the impending global financial crisis was one of his objectives when he stumped up the original 138 million!

 

Terrific post

 

 

He left an open bracket hanging though 

 

Personally I find it cold comfort that Ashley might have inadvertantly ridden the credit crunch less close to the knuckle than other Premier league chairmen....none of who's clubs have actually gone under....yet.

 

It's like thanking Josef Fritzl for keeping Elizabeth out of danger all those years, if you ask me.

 

Totally agree with you mate - if the majority of football clubs manage to keep going and finding investment then I think we'll keep going backwards compared to them (which means going down a tworst and mid table mediocrity at best imo) unless Ashley bucks his ideas up big time in the summer. Provided of course we can stay up this year, which as we all know is in the balance.

 

However as the articles in the first post say, things could start to look dodgy to say the least for a good few clubs, given the salaries that are getting paid and the levels of debt involved. I was just  talking about the potentially well off position we could find ourselves in if the others do suffer.

 

Tremendous analogy by the way!

[mrmojorisin75]

Personally I find it cold comfort that Ashley might have inadvertantly ridden the credit crunch less close to the knuckle than other Premier league chairmen....none of who's clubs have actually gone under....yet.

 

It's like thanking Josef Fritzl for keeping Elizabeth out of danger all those years, if you ask me.

 

agreed on the analogy mind

 

question for you HF - what would you have MA do?  honestly, taking a balanced view of things as you seem able to do

[gekkotime]

  Well first of all we don't have to thank Ashley for anything, he didn't buy the club to save it, or to make the fans happy, he bought it because he thought it was a good piece of business at that time, which of course turned out to be a false assumption, but he only has himself to blame for not doing due diligence before buying. He paid off the debts because it would have been bad business to pay the interest, and since he owns the club it was essentially putting money from one of his pockets to another. On the same note, people complaining that he is taking money out of the club or asset strippig, are clearly complete idiots, it has been stated a thousand times that he had put in a considerable amount of cash just to keep the club running, and it wouldn't make any sense to take money out of a business which he owns 100% and generates big losses every year.

 

While it can't be debated that we're on a much stronger financial footing than we would've been without the takeover, I'm pretty concerned about Ashley's style of running the club, both from a financial and footballing standpoint. On the pitch we're in the worst position we've been since getting promoted, and Ashely's approach and especially the events of the last transfer window suggest that we won't be getting much better in the coming years, and I'm not sure that Ashley himself, or most people on this board for that matter, realise the potential consequences of that.

 

If we continue to operate the way we have been in the last two seasons the best we can hope for is to fight off relegation in the coming seasons, and even if we won't get relegated, this will greatly hurt the club's already dreadful finances. In the 05/06 season we had an average attendance of 52032, last season it was 51321, this season it's 48094 so far. If we continue to play the way we are right now, i can see this number declining further, especially under the current financial and economic climate, which means that our revenue will fall 1-2 millions every year (until we hit a low where only the hardcore fans remain, who doesn't give a toss about how bad the team is, just because it's their team). This would also mean a fall in merchandise I guess, especially since we won't have a Shearer/Owen type of big name player, whose name alone would sell a few thousand extra shirts every year.

 

Another financial issue with being shit on the pitch is sponsorship. The good thing is, that we can't get any less than we're getting this term because it has been spent already, the bad thing is that I can't see us finding a proper sponsor once the northern rock deal is up (economic situation etc.), in fact I won't be suprised at all to see a sport direct logo on our shirt in the near future, for free of course. That's probably another good 4-5 mill/year down the drain.

What makes it even worse is that we're already making a loss of 20m/y (at least on paper), and even if we'd manage to cut back on the wages considerably, well, i think it would be the greatest achievement in sport management history ever if we could decrease the wage bill, break even on transfers, and at the same time increase the depth and quality of the squad (esp. with Joe Kinnear as manager).

 

We might save around 9-10m on wages next year if Viduka and Owen departs in the summer, maybe 5-6m more if we get rid of a few other wasters, but we will have to replace them, pay with cash upfront for all those replacements and pay their wages, so we won't be able to save a lot. We could of course if we wouldn't replace them, in that case we'll go down, simple as that. Even if we'll be able to "achieve" the 7m loss next year that Llambias was talking about, it's still quite a few years until we can spend properly and bring in some quality, and in the meantime we will be fighting for our premiership status. And that's not taking into account the clown we have for manager. 

 

And to all those who think relegation wouldn't be a disaster, just think about the fact that we would lose ~22.5m of TV money, and that's including the parachute payments and championship tv revenue, and we would surely lose at least 50% of our gate receipts if not more, that's another 15-16m, so that means that we'd have to find 20+22.5+15= 57.5m somewhere to break even financially, which effectively means that we'd have to sell the whole fucking lot and field the reserves plus Shola Ameobi.

 

I might be a bit pessimistic about these things, but all in all the only way to generate income in football is by success on the field, and while I agree that the priority should be to keep down the spending and the wage bill, this is a very dangerous road we took. I hope MA will prove me wrong btw. 

[NG32]

Personally I find it cold comfort that Ashley might have inadvertantly ridden the credit crunch less close to the knuckle than other Premier league chairmen....none of who's clubs have actually gone under....yet.

 

It's like thanking Josef Fritzl for keeping Elizabeth out of danger all those years, if you ask me.

 

agreed on the analogy mind

 

question for you HF - what would you have MA do?  honestly, taking a balanced view of things as you seem able to do

 

 

Sorry to butt in but

 

Not allow our most consistent proformers to leave and only get the moneny back in installments while at the sametime doing our own rule of thumb of only buying players out right.

 

This rule AT the moment is going to fucking fuck us.

[mrmojorisin75]

Personally I find it cold comfort that Ashley might have inadvertantly ridden the credit crunch less close to the knuckle than other Premier league chairmen....none of who's clubs have actually gone under....yet.

 

It's like thanking Josef Fritzl for keeping Elizabeth out of danger all those years, if you ask me.

 

agreed on the analogy mind

 

question for you HF - what would you have MA do?  honestly, taking a balanced view of things as you seem able to do

 

 

Sorry to butt in but

 

Not allow our most consistent proformers to leave and only get the moneny back in installments while at the sametime doing our own rule of thumb of only buying players out right.

 

This rule AT the moment is going to fucking fuck us.

 

you mean performer, singular; shay given...oh sorry yeah there was milner who was consistently average and worthless on the pitch