Financial meltdown?

[NE5]

Well Leazes I'm old enough to remember when "we were REALLY shite", before the Halls, Keegan and your own beloved Freddie Shepherd and I say you are still talking shite!

 

Can't you understand that Shepherd was punting the future of the club. and if Ashley hadn't bought us when he did there's every chance we would have went down last season and probably went into administration.

 

And by the way, I see you haven't got a quote from me in your pathetic signature. Perhaps you do secretly agree with me. 

 

why don't you reply to the other, very debateable posts I've referred you to from myself and HTL ?

 

My sig contains 5 exact quotes from this board, made by people who shared the same opinion that you had, and still have it seems. They are ridiculous, aren't they ? What a pity that people like you said at the time that they were right and I was wrong.

 

Your 2nd paragraph above, is just as wrong as all those 5 quotes.

 

Why do you call me Leazes, what is your name on other message boards ? I believe I've also pointed out this hypocrisy before  but you dodge that too don't you ?

 

Try admitting you're wrong, talk sense, cease the hypocrisy and address responses to your own posts as I've mentioned, and I might find you worthy of a decent reply.

 

 

 

 

Maybe he calls you Leazes for the same reason you call me Toonlass.

 

but my question is what does he call himself on other boards when he addresses me as Leazes ?

 

You make no secret of the fact you used to be called toonlass, neither do I make any secret that I'm Leazes on toontastic and howaythetoon, nor that there was a reason for it.

 

 

[Guest toonlass]

Well Leazes I'm old enough to remember when "we were REALLY shite", before the Halls, Keegan and your own beloved Freddie Shepherd and I say you are still talking shite!

 

Can't you understand that Shepherd was punting the future of the club. and if Ashley hadn't bought us when he did there's every chance we would have went down last season and probably went into administration.

 

And by the way, I see you haven't got a quote from me in your pathetic signature. Perhaps you do secretly agree with me. 

 

why don't you reply to the other, very debateable posts I've referred you to from myself and HTL ?

 

My sig contains 5 exact quotes from this board, made by people who shared the same opinion that you had, and still have it seems. They are ridiculous, aren't they ? What a pity that people like you said at the time that they were right and I was wrong.

 

Your 2nd paragraph above, is just as wrong as all those 5 quotes.

 

Why do you call me Leazes, what is your name on other message boards ? I believe I've also pointed out this hypocrisy before  but you dodge that too don't you ?

 

Try admitting you're wrong, talk sense, cease the hypocrisy and address responses to your own posts as I've mentioned, and I might find you worthy of a decent reply.

 

 

 

 

Maybe he calls you Leazes for the same reason you call me Toonlass.

 

but my question is what does he call himself on other boards when he addresses me as Leazes ?

 

You make no secret of the fact you used to be called toonlass, neither do I make any secret that I'm Leazes on toontastic and howaythetoon, nor that there was a reason for it.

 

 

 

Being the optimum phrase. Get with the times

[NE5]

Well Leazes I'm old enough to remember when "we were REALLY shite", before the Halls, Keegan and your own beloved Freddie Shepherd and I say you are still talking shite!

 

Can't you understand that Shepherd was punting the future of the club. and if Ashley hadn't bought us when he did there's every chance we would have went down last season and probably went into administration.

 

And by the way, I see you haven't got a quote from me in your pathetic signature. Perhaps you do secretly agree with me. 

 

why don't you reply to the other, very debateable posts I've referred you to from myself and HTL ?

 

My sig contains 5 exact quotes from this board, made by people who shared the same opinion that you had, and still have it seems. They are ridiculous, aren't they ? What a pity that people like you said at the time that they were right and I was wrong.

 

Your 2nd paragraph above, is just as wrong as all those 5 quotes.

 

Why do you call me Leazes, what is your name on other message boards ? I believe I've also pointed out this hypocrisy before  but you dodge that too don't you ?

 

Try admitting you're wrong, talk sense, cease the hypocrisy and address responses to your own posts as I've mentioned, and I might find you worthy of a decent reply.

 

 

 

 

Maybe he calls you Leazes for the same reason you call me Toonlass.

 

but my question is what does he call himself on other boards when he addresses me as Leazes ?

 

You make no secret of the fact you used to be called toonlass, neither do I make any secret that I'm Leazes on toontastic and howaythetoon, nor that there was a reason for it.

 

 

 

Being the optimum phrase. Get with the times

 

indeed. Remind him, that on here at least, I'm NE5 not Leazes, such are the times. Not that I give a toss, other than laughing at his daft hypocrisy and his dodging of what myself and HTL ask him, to which I'd have a bit more time for if he acted more sensibly.

 

Or is it just you having a go at me because its me again ?

 

[Guest toonlass]

Well Leazes I'm old enough to remember when "we were REALLY shite", before the Halls, Keegan and your own beloved Freddie Shepherd and I say you are still talking shite!

 

Can't you understand that Shepherd was punting the future of the club. and if Ashley hadn't bought us when he did there's every chance we would have went down last season and probably went into administration.

 

And by the way, I see you haven't got a quote from me in your pathetic signature. Perhaps you do secretly agree with me. 

 

why don't you reply to the other, very debateable posts I've referred you to from myself and HTL ?

 

My sig contains 5 exact quotes from this board, made by people who shared the same opinion that you had, and still have it seems. They are ridiculous, aren't they ? What a pity that people like you said at the time that they were right and I was wrong.

 

Your 2nd paragraph above, is just as wrong as all those 5 quotes.

 

Why do you call me Leazes, what is your name on other message boards ? I believe I've also pointed out this hypocrisy before  but you dodge that too don't you ?

 

Try admitting you're wrong, talk sense, cease the hypocrisy and address responses to your own posts as I've mentioned, and I might find you worthy of a decent reply.

 

 

 

 

Maybe he calls you Leazes for the same reason you call me Toonlass.

 

but my question is what does he call himself on other boards when he addresses me as Leazes ?

 

You make no secret of the fact you used to be called toonlass, neither do I make any secret that I'm Leazes on toontastic and howaythetoon, nor that there was a reason for it.

 

 

 

Being the optimum phrase. Get with the times

 

indeed. Remind him, that on here at least, I'm NE5 not Leazes, such are the times. Not that I give a toss, other than laughing at his daft hypocrisy and his dodging of what myself and HTL ask him, to which I'd have a bit more time for if he acted more sensibly.

 

Or is it just you having a go at me because its me again ?

 

 

No not at all.

[NE5]

Well Leazes I'm old enough to remember when "we were REALLY shite", before the Halls, Keegan and your own beloved Freddie Shepherd and I say you are still talking shite!

 

Can't you understand that Shepherd was punting the future of the club. and if Ashley hadn't bought us when he did there's every chance we would have went down last season and probably went into administration.

 

And by the way, I see you haven't got a quote from me in your pathetic signature. Perhaps you do secretly agree with me. 

 

why don't you reply to the other, very debateable posts I've referred you to from myself and HTL ?

 

My sig contains 5 exact quotes from this board, made by people who shared the same opinion that you had, and still have it seems. They are ridiculous, aren't they ? What a pity that people like you said at the time that they were right and I was wrong.

 

Your 2nd paragraph above, is just as wrong as all those 5 quotes.

 

Why do you call me Leazes, what is your name on other message boards ? I believe I've also pointed out this hypocrisy before  but you dodge that too don't you ?

 

Try admitting you're wrong, talk sense, cease the hypocrisy and address responses to your own posts as I've mentioned, and I might find you worthy of a decent reply.

 

 

 

 

Maybe he calls you Leazes for the same reason you call me Toonlass.

 

but my question is what does he call himself on other boards when he addresses me as Leazes ?

 

You make no secret of the fact you used to be called toonlass, neither do I make any secret that I'm Leazes on toontastic and howaythetoon, nor that there was a reason for it.

 

 

 

Being the optimum phrase. Get with the times

 

indeed. Remind him, that on here at least, I'm NE5 not Leazes, such are the times. Not that I give a toss, other than laughing at his daft hypocrisy and his dodging of what myself and HTL ask him, to which I'd have a bit more time for if he acted more sensibly.

 

Or is it just you having a go at me because its me again ?

 

 

No not at all.

 

OK Blefescu, I just think of you as toonlass though. If he thinks of me as being Leazes from another board, then surely its no big deal for him to say who he is ? Is it ?

 

 

[Dave]

Shit craic boys and girls. Keep it on topic (whatever the hell that is) or this one gets locked as per usual.

[madras]

Hmm.....no reply. Always puzzles me this, that I give out facts and people think its a wind up ?

 

actually you don't, you give one fact repeated ad nauseam - the rest is your opinion tarted up as fact through the smoke and mirror act of condescension

 

between yourself & JJ7 there were facts and opinions, i'll enlighten you:

 

FS was a big part [fnar] of the European qualifications (facts) but he also ran out of ideas (strong conjecture/opinion) and the club was nearly bankrupt/in a dire financial situation (fact)

 

what's so hard about it for you?  you quote the Euro qualifications and JJ7 says: "Yep, then he lost the plot, made too many mistakes and nearly bankrupted the club"

 

he's not contradicting you, you can surely understand that?  he's referring to 2 different points in time man

 

then you reply and tell him to repost his rubbish in 5 years!!!  you remind me of billy pilgrim dude, totally shot to f*** through all the time travelling you've done so you can't work out simple linear facts and events anymore

Good points. Im not biting here, honestly as its just a general point, but there are very few people in business or politics or whatever who are always good. Most people usually start to fail and make mistakes in the end. Look at Hitler who performed miricles at the start, Thatcher, Brooks Mileson, Peter Ridsdale, Doug Ellis etc..... Even if Freddy had won us the league for three seasons between 1997 and 2000, you can't just stick with them when they continue to make mistake after mistake.

 

absolutely agree, and it's a balance thing

 

we'd tipped the scales under FS, and as a PLC in my opinion, but we got very unlucky with who bought us out - as has been said countless times the ashley period being an abject failure to date does not validate the later years of FS & the PLC

 

at the end of the day, it depends how you look at it.

 

Football is a risky business. A lot of people say - and not just on here - that if you aren't in europe, you are s***. Construed : what they mean is they have known nothing less than regularly playing in europe, so don't listen to people like me who try to tell them that such things aren't automatic and only the good clubs with good boards qualify regularly for europe. You hit the nail slightly on the head when you say we were "unlucky with who bought us out"........having seen the club when we were REALLY s**** [far more than the supposed "s****" of the recent past, until now since Ashley came in] I see it differently, I see the vast majority of the clubs in the top 2 leagues as being s****, and I say we "got lucky" when we had good directors. It might be quite a while until we "get lucky" again ....... and a lot of people will be sitting around in 10 years time and looking back at the Halls and Shepherd and realise it, but I obviously hope not bearing in mind my age.

 

This is all I've said from day 1 by the way. At least some people - since ashley - have begun to understand.

 

 

 

 

wrongish, it also depends on why you look at it in a certain way. for example why are you determined,against all reason, to try and make out that we weren't in the shit at the end of fred's reign despite all the evidence saying we were ?

[NE5]

Hmm.....no reply. Always puzzles me this, that I give out facts and people think its a wind up ?

 

actually you don't, you give one fact repeated ad nauseam - the rest is your opinion tarted up as fact through the smoke and mirror act of condescension

 

between yourself & JJ7 there were facts and opinions, i'll enlighten you:

 

FS was a big part [fnar] of the European qualifications (facts) but he also ran out of ideas (strong conjecture/opinion) and the club was nearly bankrupt/in a dire financial situation (fact)

 

what's so hard about it for you?  you quote the Euro qualifications and JJ7 says: "Yep, then he lost the plot, made too many mistakes and nearly bankrupted the club"

 

he's not contradicting you, you can surely understand that?  he's referring to 2 different points in time man

 

then you reply and tell him to repost his rubbish in 5 years!!!  you remind me of billy pilgrim dude, totally shot to f*** through all the time travelling you've done so you can't work out simple linear facts and events anymore

Good points. Im not biting here, honestly as its just a general point, but there are very few people in business or politics or whatever who are always good. Most people usually start to fail and make mistakes in the end. Look at Hitler who performed miricles at the start, Thatcher, Brooks Mileson, Peter Ridsdale, Doug Ellis etc..... Even if Freddy had won us the league for three seasons between 1997 and 2000, you can't just stick with them when they continue to make mistake after mistake.

 

absolutely agree, and it's a balance thing

 

we'd tipped the scales under FS, and as a PLC in my opinion, but we got very unlucky with who bought us out - as has been said countless times the ashley period being an abject failure to date does not validate the later years of FS & the PLC

 

at the end of the day, it depends how you look at it.

 

Football is a risky business. A lot of people say - and not just on here - that if you aren't in europe, you are s***. Construed : what they mean is they have known nothing less than regularly playing in europe, so don't listen to people like me who try to tell them that such things aren't automatic and only the good clubs with good boards qualify regularly for europe. You hit the nail slightly on the head when you say we were "unlucky with who bought us out"........having seen the club when we were REALLY s**** [far more than the supposed "s****" of the recent past, until now since Ashley came in] I see it differently, I see the vast majority of the clubs in the top 2 leagues as being s****, and I say we "got lucky" when we had good directors. It might be quite a while until we "get lucky" again ....... and a lot of people will be sitting around in 10 years time and looking back at the Halls and Shepherd and realise it, but I obviously hope not bearing in mind my age.

 

This is all I've said from day 1 by the way. At least some people - since ashley - have begun to understand.

 

 

 

 

wrongish, it also depends on why you look at it in a certain way. for example why are you determined,against all reason, to try and make out that we weren't in the shit at the end of fred's reign despite all the evidence saying we were ?

 

why are you and others like you, against all reason, determined to try and make out that the Halls and Shepherd weren't the best owners we have had at the club for 50 years and it will very difficult to replace them with better ?

 

And - accept that Mike ashley is taking the club downwards, among the also rans, like the vast majority of other football club owners instead of trying to get among the other top clubs which is where we should be and where we spent our time under the Halls and Shepherd.

 

 

[Guest toonlass]

Hmm.....no reply. Always puzzles me this, that I give out facts and people think its a wind up ?

 

actually you don't, you give one fact repeated ad nauseam - the rest is your opinion tarted up as fact through the smoke and mirror act of condescension

 

between yourself & JJ7 there were facts and opinions, i'll enlighten you:

 

FS was a big part [fnar] of the European qualifications (facts) but he also ran out of ideas (strong conjecture/opinion) and the club was nearly bankrupt/in a dire financial situation (fact)

 

what's so hard about it for you?  you quote the Euro qualifications and JJ7 says: "Yep, then he lost the plot, made too many mistakes and nearly bankrupted the club"

 

he's not contradicting you, you can surely understand that?  he's referring to 2 different points in time man

 

then you reply and tell him to repost his rubbish in 5 years!!!  you remind me of billy pilgrim dude, totally shot to f*** through all the time travelling you've done so you can't work out simple linear facts and events anymore

Good points. Im not biting here, honestly as its just a general point, but there are very few people in business or politics or whatever who are always good. Most people usually start to fail and make mistakes in the end. Look at Hitler who performed miricles at the start, Thatcher, Brooks Mileson, Peter Ridsdale, Doug Ellis etc..... Even if Freddy had won us the league for three seasons between 1997 and 2000, you can't just stick with them when they continue to make mistake after mistake.

 

absolutely agree, and it's a balance thing

 

we'd tipped the scales under FS, and as a PLC in my opinion, but we got very unlucky with who bought us out - as has been said countless times the ashley period being an abject failure to date does not validate the later years of FS & the PLC

 

at the end of the day, it depends how you look at it.

 

Football is a risky business. A lot of people say - and not just on here - that if you aren't in europe, you are s***. Construed : what they mean is they have known nothing less than regularly playing in europe, so don't listen to people like me who try to tell them that such things aren't automatic and only the good clubs with good boards qualify regularly for europe. You hit the nail slightly on the head when you say we were "unlucky with who bought us out"........having seen the club when we were REALLY s**** [far more than the supposed "s****" of the recent past, until now since Ashley came in] I see it differently, I see the vast majority of the clubs in the top 2 leagues as being s****, and I say we "got lucky" when we had good directors. It might be quite a while until we "get lucky" again ....... and a lot of people will be sitting around in 10 years time and looking back at the Halls and Shepherd and realise it, but I obviously hope not bearing in mind my age.

 

This is all I've said from day 1 by the way. At least some people - since ashley - have begun to understand.

 

 

 

 

wrongish, it also depends on why you look at it in a certain way. for example why are you determined,against all reason, to try and make out that we weren't in the shit at the end of fred's reign despite all the evidence saying we were ?

 

why are you and others like you, against all reason, determined to try and make out that the Halls and Shepherd weren't the best owners we have had at the club for 50 years and it will very difficult to replace them with better ?

 

And - accept that Mike ashley is taking the club downwards, among the also rans, like the vast majority of other football club owners instead of trying to get among the other top clubs which is where we should be and where we spent our time under the Halls and Shepherd.

 

 

 

People do accept that Mike Ashley is taking the club downwards.

 

However, why do you not accept that when the Halls and Shepherd sold the club to Ashley we were already started on the journey downwards. We may have had years and years competing with the top clubs but the bubble had already burst when Ashley bought us, and this was after others had looked at the books and walked away laughing at the financial mess we were in.

[NE5]

Hmm.....no reply. Always puzzles me this, that I give out facts and people think its a wind up ?

 

actually you don't, you give one fact repeated ad nauseam - the rest is your opinion tarted up as fact through the smoke and mirror act of condescension

 

between yourself & JJ7 there were facts and opinions, i'll enlighten you:

 

FS was a big part [fnar] of the European qualifications (facts) but he also ran out of ideas (strong conjecture/opinion) and the club was nearly bankrupt/in a dire financial situation (fact)

 

what's so hard about it for you?  you quote the Euro qualifications and JJ7 says: "Yep, then he lost the plot, made too many mistakes and nearly bankrupted the club"

 

he's not contradicting you, you can surely understand that?  he's referring to 2 different points in time man

 

then you reply and tell him to repost his rubbish in 5 years!!!  you remind me of billy pilgrim dude, totally shot to f*** through all the time travelling you've done so you can't work out simple linear facts and events anymore

Good points. Im not biting here, honestly as its just a general point, but there are very few people in business or politics or whatever who are always good. Most people usually start to fail and make mistakes in the end. Look at Hitler who performed miricles at the start, Thatcher, Brooks Mileson, Peter Ridsdale, Doug Ellis etc..... Even if Freddy had won us the league for three seasons between 1997 and 2000, you can't just stick with them when they continue to make mistake after mistake.

 

absolutely agree, and it's a balance thing

 

we'd tipped the scales under FS, and as a PLC in my opinion, but we got very unlucky with who bought us out - as has been said countless times the ashley period being an abject failure to date does not validate the later years of FS & the PLC

 

at the end of the day, it depends how you look at it.

 

Football is a risky business. A lot of people say - and not just on here - that if you aren't in europe, you are s***. Construed : what they mean is they have known nothing less than regularly playing in europe, so don't listen to people like me who try to tell them that such things aren't automatic and only the good clubs with good boards qualify regularly for europe. You hit the nail slightly on the head when you say we were "unlucky with who bought us out"........having seen the club when we were REALLY s**** [far more than the supposed "s****" of the recent past, until now since Ashley came in] I see it differently, I see the vast majority of the clubs in the top 2 leagues as being s****, and I say we "got lucky" when we had good directors. It might be quite a while until we "get lucky" again ....... and a lot of people will be sitting around in 10 years time and looking back at the Halls and Shepherd and realise it, but I obviously hope not bearing in mind my age.

 

This is all I've said from day 1 by the way. At least some people - since ashley - have begun to understand.

 

 

 

 

wrongish, it also depends on why you look at it in a certain way. for example why are you determined,against all reason, to try and make out that we weren't in the shit at the end of fred's reign despite all the evidence saying we were ?

 

why are you and others like you, against all reason, determined to try and make out that the Halls and Shepherd weren't the best owners we have had at the club for 50 years and it will very difficult to replace them with better ?

 

And - accept that Mike ashley is taking the club downwards, among the also rans, like the vast majority of other football club owners instead of trying to get among the other top clubs which is where we should be and where we spent our time under the Halls and Shepherd.

 

 

 

People do accept that Mike Ashley is taking the club downwards.

 

However, why do you not accept that when the Halls and Shepherd sold the club to Ashley we were already started on the journey downwards. We may have had years and years competing with the top clubs but the bubble had already burst when Ashley bought us, and this was after others had looked at the books and walked away laughing at the financial mess we were in.

 

 

because they ticked the 2 biggest boxes. They had the ambition to succeed, and they backed their appointed managers

 

That is how we qualfied for europe more than any club bar 4 during their time running the club. I hope you enjoyed it, because we might have shit directors for years, or decades, before we get good ones again.

 

 

[Guest toonlass]

Hmm.....no reply. Always puzzles me this, that I give out facts and people think its a wind up ?

 

actually you don't, you give one fact repeated ad nauseam - the rest is your opinion tarted up as fact through the smoke and mirror act of condescension

 

between yourself & JJ7 there were facts and opinions, i'll enlighten you:

 

FS was a big part [fnar] of the European qualifications (facts) but he also ran out of ideas (strong conjecture/opinion) and the club was nearly bankrupt/in a dire financial situation (fact)

 

what's so hard about it for you?  you quote the Euro qualifications and JJ7 says: "Yep, then he lost the plot, made too many mistakes and nearly bankrupted the club"

 

he's not contradicting you, you can surely understand that?  he's referring to 2 different points in time man

 

then you reply and tell him to repost his rubbish in 5 years!!!  you remind me of billy pilgrim dude, totally shot to f*** through all the time travelling you've done so you can't work out simple linear facts and events anymore

Good points. Im not biting here, honestly as its just a general point, but there are very few people in business or politics or whatever who are always good. Most people usually start to fail and make mistakes in the end. Look at Hitler who performed miricles at the start, Thatcher, Brooks Mileson, Peter Ridsdale, Doug Ellis etc..... Even if Freddy had won us the league for three seasons between 1997 and 2000, you can't just stick with them when they continue to make mistake after mistake.

 

absolutely agree, and it's a balance thing

 

we'd tipped the scales under FS, and as a PLC in my opinion, but we got very unlucky with who bought us out - as has been said countless times the ashley period being an abject failure to date does not validate the later years of FS & the PLC

 

at the end of the day, it depends how you look at it.

 

Football is a risky business. A lot of people say - and not just on here - that if you aren't in europe, you are s***. Construed : what they mean is they have known nothing less than regularly playing in europe, so don't listen to people like me who try to tell them that such things aren't automatic and only the good clubs with good boards qualify regularly for europe. You hit the nail slightly on the head when you say we were "unlucky with who bought us out"........having seen the club when we were REALLY s**** [far more than the supposed "s****" of the recent past, until now since Ashley came in] I see it differently, I see the vast majority of the clubs in the top 2 leagues as being s****, and I say we "got lucky" when we had good directors. It might be quite a while until we "get lucky" again ....... and a lot of people will be sitting around in 10 years time and looking back at the Halls and Shepherd and realise it, but I obviously hope not bearing in mind my age.

 

This is all I've said from day 1 by the way. At least some people - since ashley - have begun to understand.

 

 

 

 

wrongish, it also depends on why you look at it in a certain way. for example why are you determined,against all reason, to try and make out that we weren't in the shit at the end of fred's reign despite all the evidence saying we were ?

 

why are you and others like you, against all reason, determined to try and make out that the Halls and Shepherd weren't the best owners we have had at the club for 50 years and it will very difficult to replace them with better ?

 

And - accept that Mike ashley is taking the club downwards, among the also rans, like the vast majority of other football club owners instead of trying to get among the other top clubs which is where we should be and where we spent our time under the Halls and Shepherd.

 

 

 

People do accept that Mike Ashley is taking the club downwards.

 

However, why do you not accept that when the Halls and Shepherd sold the club to Ashley we were already started on the journey downwards. We may have had years and years competing with the top clubs but the bubble had already burst when Ashley bought us, and this was after others had looked at the books and walked away laughing at the financial mess we were in.

 

 

because they ticked the 2 biggest boxes. They had the ambition to succeed, and they backed their appointed managers

 

That is how we qualfied for europe more than any club bar 4 during their time running the club. I hope you enjoyed it, because we might have shit directors for years, or decades, before we get good ones again.

 

 

 

Same old hyperbole. So you must have missed the grumblings of fans who were not satisfied at the shit that we were turning out week in week out. Were you at the Sheffield United game for instance?

 

Of course I enjoyed the european games, that goes without saying. But that does not excuse Hall and Shepherd from starting us down the road that we are now on. Things had already turned sour before Mike Ashley came along. He has failed to turn that around and that should not be forgotten either, but you cannot say that Hall and Shepherd are blameless in this.

[jimmymag]

Hmm.....no reply. Always puzzles me this, that I give out facts and people think its a wind up ?

 

actually you don't, you give one fact repeated ad nauseam - the rest is your opinion tarted up as fact through the smoke and mirror act of condescension

 

between yourself & JJ7 there were facts and opinions, i'll enlighten you:

 

FS was a big part [fnar] of the European qualifications (facts) but he also ran out of ideas (strong conjecture/opinion) and the club was nearly bankrupt/in a dire financial situation (fact)

 

what's so hard about it for you?  you quote the Euro qualifications and JJ7 says: "Yep, then he lost the plot, made too many mistakes and nearly bankrupted the club"

 

he's not contradicting you, you can surely understand that?  he's referring to 2 different points in time man

 

then you reply and tell him to repost his rubbish in 5 years!!!  you remind me of billy pilgrim dude, totally shot to f*** through all the time travelling you've done so you can't work out simple linear facts and events anymore

Good points. Im not biting here, honestly as its just a general point, but there are very few people in business or politics or whatever who are always good. Most people usually start to fail and make mistakes in the end. Look at Hitler who performed miricles at the start, Thatcher, Brooks Mileson, Peter Ridsdale, Doug Ellis etc..... Even if Freddy had won us the league for three seasons between 1997 and 2000, you can't just stick with them when they continue to make mistake after mistake.

 

absolutely agree, and it's a balance thing

 

we'd tipped the scales under FS, and as a PLC in my opinion, but we got very unlucky with who bought us out - as has been said countless times the ashley period being an abject failure to date does not validate the later years of FS & the PLC

 

at the end of the day, it depends how you look at it.

 

Football is a risky business. A lot of people say - and not just on here - that if you aren't in europe, you are s***. Construed : what they mean is they have known nothing less than regularly playing in europe, so don't listen to people like me who try to tell them that such things aren't automatic and only the good clubs with good boards qualify regularly for europe. You hit the nail slightly on the head when you say we were "unlucky with who bought us out"........having seen the club when we were REALLY s**** [far more than the supposed "s****" of the recent past, until now since Ashley came in] I see it differently, I see the vast majority of the clubs in the top 2 leagues as being s****, and I say we "got lucky" when we had good directors. It might be quite a while until we "get lucky" again ....... and a lot of people will be sitting around in 10 years time and looking back at the Halls and Shepherd and realise it, but I obviously hope not bearing in mind my age.

 

This is all I've said from day 1 by the way. At least some people - since ashley - have begun to understand.

 

 

 

 

wrongish, it also depends on why you look at it in a certain way. for example why are you determined,against all reason, to try and make out that we weren't in the shit at the end of fred's reign despite all the evidence saying we were ?

 

why are you and others like you, against all reason, determined to try and make out that the Halls and Shepherd weren't the best owners we have had at the club for 50 years and it will very difficult to replace them with better ?

 

And - accept that Mike ashley is taking the club downwards, among the also rans, like the vast majority of other football club owners instead of trying to get among the other top clubs which is where we should be and where we spent our time under the Halls and Shepherd.

 

 

 

People do accept that Mike Ashley is taking the club downwards.

 

However, why do you not accept that when the Halls and Shepherd sold the club to Ashley we were already started on the journey downwards. We may have had years and years competing with the top clubs but the bubble had already burst when Ashley bought us, and this was after others had looked at the books and walked away laughing at the financial mess we were in.

 

 

because they ticked the 2 biggest boxes. They had the ambition to succeed, and they backed their appointed managers

 

That is how we qualfied for europe more than any club bar 4 during their time running the club. I hope you enjoyed it, because we might have shit directors for years, or decades, before we get good ones again.

 

 

 

Same old hyperbole. So you must have missed the grumblings of fans who were not satisfied at the shit that we were turning out week in week out. Were you at the Sheffield United game for instance?

 

Of course I enjoyed the european games, that goes without saying. But that does not excuse Hall and Shepherd from starting us down the road that we are now on. Things had already turned sour before Mike Ashley came along. He has failed to turn that around and that should not be forgotten either, but you cannot say that Hall and Shepherd are blameless in this.

 

But he will!

 

Luckily he's in a minority of two who believe that Shepherd was the greatest chairman we've ever had and did nothing but good for the club. You, nor I, nor anyone will ever convince him that that isn't true.

 

I'm happy to leave the poor delusional fool to wallow in his own tiny world and won't get sucked into future arguments with him regarding this matter.

[NE5]

Hmm.....no reply. Always puzzles me this, that I give out facts and people think its a wind up ?

 

actually you don't, you give one fact repeated ad nauseam - the rest is your opinion tarted up as fact through the smoke and mirror act of condescension

 

between yourself & JJ7 there were facts and opinions, i'll enlighten you:

 

FS was a big part [fnar] of the European qualifications (facts) but he also ran out of ideas (strong conjecture/opinion) and the club was nearly bankrupt/in a dire financial situation (fact)

 

what's so hard about it for you?  you quote the Euro qualifications and JJ7 says: "Yep, then he lost the plot, made too many mistakes and nearly bankrupted the club"

 

he's not contradicting you, you can surely understand that?  he's referring to 2 different points in time man

 

then you reply and tell him to repost his rubbish in 5 years!!!  you remind me of billy pilgrim dude, totally shot to f*** through all the time travelling you've done so you can't work out simple linear facts and events anymore

Good points. Im not biting here, honestly as its just a general point, but there are very few people in business or politics or whatever who are always good. Most people usually start to fail and make mistakes in the end. Look at Hitler who performed miricles at the start, Thatcher, Brooks Mileson, Peter Ridsdale, Doug Ellis etc..... Even if Freddy had won us the league for three seasons between 1997 and 2000, you can't just stick with them when they continue to make mistake after mistake.

 

absolutely agree, and it's a balance thing

 

we'd tipped the scales under FS, and as a PLC in my opinion, but we got very unlucky with who bought us out - as has been said countless times the ashley period being an abject failure to date does not validate the later years of FS & the PLC

 

at the end of the day, it depends how you look at it.

 

Football is a risky business. A lot of people say - and not just on here - that if you aren't in europe, you are s***. Construed : what they mean is they have known nothing less than regularly playing in europe, so don't listen to people like me who try to tell them that such things aren't automatic and only the good clubs with good boards qualify regularly for europe. You hit the nail slightly on the head when you say we were "unlucky with who bought us out"........having seen the club when we were REALLY s**** [far more than the supposed "s****" of the recent past, until now since Ashley came in] I see it differently, I see the vast majority of the clubs in the top 2 leagues as being s****, and I say we "got lucky" when we had good directors. It might be quite a while until we "get lucky" again ....... and a lot of people will be sitting around in 10 years time and looking back at the Halls and Shepherd and realise it, but I obviously hope not bearing in mind my age.

 

This is all I've said from day 1 by the way. At least some people - since ashley - have begun to understand.

 

 

 

 

wrongish, it also depends on why you look at it in a certain way. for example why are you determined,against all reason, to try and make out that we weren't in the shit at the end of fred's reign despite all the evidence saying we were ?

 

why are you and others like you, against all reason, determined to try and make out that the Halls and Shepherd weren't the best owners we have had at the club for 50 years and it will very difficult to replace them with better ?

 

And - accept that Mike ashley is taking the club downwards, among the also rans, like the vast majority of other football club owners instead of trying to get among the other top clubs which is where we should be and where we spent our time under the Halls and Shepherd.

 

 

 

People do accept that Mike Ashley is taking the club downwards.

 

However, why do you not accept that when the Halls and Shepherd sold the club to Ashley we were already started on the journey downwards. We may have had years and years competing with the top clubs but the bubble had already burst when Ashley bought us, and this was after others had looked at the books and walked away laughing at the financial mess we were in.

 

 

because they ticked the 2 biggest boxes. They had the ambition to succeed, and they backed their appointed managers

 

That is how we qualfied for europe more than any club bar 4 during their time running the club. I hope you enjoyed it, because we might have shit directors for years, or decades, before we get good ones again.

 

 

 

Same old hyperbole. So you must have missed the grumblings of fans who were not satisfied at the shit that we were turning out week in week out. Were you at the Sheffield United game for instance?

 

Of course I enjoyed the european games, that goes without saying. But that does not excuse Hall and Shepherd from starting us down the road that we are now on. Things had already turned sour before Mike Ashley came along. He has failed to turn that around and that should not be forgotten either, but you cannot say that Hall and Shepherd are blameless in this.

 

But he will!

 

Luckily he's in a minority of two who believe that Shepherd was the greatest chairman we've ever had and did nothing but good for the club. You, nor I, nor anyone will ever convince him that that isn't true.

 

I'm happy to leave the poor delusional fool to wallow in his own tiny world and won't get sucked into future arguments with him regarding this matter.

 

As I posted, I didn't expect a mature constructive reply, despite attempting to get one from you, both in this thread and the other 2 that I referenced that you have ignored again.

 

You had a chance to prove me wrong, and do it !!! But you didn't 

 

 

[NE5]

Hmm.....no reply. Always puzzles me this, that I give out facts and people think its a wind up ?

 

actually you don't, you give one fact repeated ad nauseam - the rest is your opinion tarted up as fact through the smoke and mirror act of condescension

 

between yourself & JJ7 there were facts and opinions, i'll enlighten you:

 

FS was a big part [fnar] of the European qualifications (facts) but he also ran out of ideas (strong conjecture/opinion) and the club was nearly bankrupt/in a dire financial situation (fact)

 

what's so hard about it for you?  you quote the Euro qualifications and JJ7 says: "Yep, then he lost the plot, made too many mistakes and nearly bankrupted the club"

 

he's not contradicting you, you can surely understand that?  he's referring to 2 different points in time man

 

then you reply and tell him to repost his rubbish in 5 years!!!  you remind me of billy pilgrim dude, totally shot to f*** through all the time travelling you've done so you can't work out simple linear facts and events anymore

Good points. Im not biting here, honestly as its just a general point, but there are very few people in business or politics or whatever who are always good. Most people usually start to fail and make mistakes in the end. Look at Hitler who performed miricles at the start, Thatcher, Brooks Mileson, Peter Ridsdale, Doug Ellis etc..... Even if Freddy had won us the league for three seasons between 1997 and 2000, you can't just stick with them when they continue to make mistake after mistake.

 

absolutely agree, and it's a balance thing

 

we'd tipped the scales under FS, and as a PLC in my opinion, but we got very unlucky with who bought us out - as has been said countless times the ashley period being an abject failure to date does not validate the later years of FS & the PLC

 

at the end of the day, it depends how you look at it.

 

Football is a risky business. A lot of people say - and not just on here - that if you aren't in europe, you are s***. Construed : what they mean is they have known nothing less than regularly playing in europe, so don't listen to people like me who try to tell them that such things aren't automatic and only the good clubs with good boards qualify regularly for europe. You hit the nail slightly on the head when you say we were "unlucky with who bought us out"........having seen the club when we were REALLY s**** [far more than the supposed "s****" of the recent past, until now since Ashley came in] I see it differently, I see the vast majority of the clubs in the top 2 leagues as being s****, and I say we "got lucky" when we had good directors. It might be quite a while until we "get lucky" again ....... and a lot of people will be sitting around in 10 years time and looking back at the Halls and Shepherd and realise it, but I obviously hope not bearing in mind my age.

 

This is all I've said from day 1 by the way. At least some people - since ashley - have begun to understand.

 

 

 

 

wrongish, it also depends on why you look at it in a certain way. for example why are you determined,against all reason, to try and make out that we weren't in the shit at the end of fred's reign despite all the evidence saying we were ?

 

why are you and others like you, against all reason, determined to try and make out that the Halls and Shepherd weren't the best owners we have had at the club for 50 years and it will very difficult to replace them with better ?

 

And - accept that Mike ashley is taking the club downwards, among the also rans, like the vast majority of other football club owners instead of trying to get among the other top clubs which is where we should be and where we spent our time under the Halls and Shepherd.

 

 

 

People do accept that Mike Ashley is taking the club downwards.

 

However, why do you not accept that when the Halls and Shepherd sold the club to Ashley we were already started on the journey downwards. We may have had years and years competing with the top clubs but the bubble had already burst when Ashley bought us, and this was after others had looked at the books and walked away laughing at the financial mess we were in.

 

 

because they ticked the 2 biggest boxes. They had the ambition to succeed, and they backed their appointed managers

 

That is how we qualfied for europe more than any club bar 4 during their time running the club. I hope you enjoyed it, because we might have shit directors for years, or decades, before we get good ones again.

 

 

 

Same old hyperbole. So you must have missed the grumblings of fans who were not satisfied at the shit that we were turning out week in week out. Were you at the Sheffield United game for instance?

 

Of course I enjoyed the european games, that goes without saying. But that does not excuse Hall and Shepherd from starting us down the road that we are now on. Things had already turned sour before Mike Ashley came along. He has failed to turn that around and that should not be forgotten either, but you cannot say that Hall and Shepherd are blameless in this.

 

football, like life, is all ups and downs. Fortunately, we had a board who delivered more ups than most clubs will ever see. Because they ticked the most important boxes, unlike 80-90% of clubs and their own predecessors and their first successor too, it will be very difficult to find better. Could take decades in fact. Shame they were so shit it takes so long to find someone better isn't it ?

 

 

[Guest toonlass]

Hmm.....no reply. Always puzzles me this, that I give out facts and people think its a wind up ?

 

actually you don't, you give one fact repeated ad nauseam - the rest is your opinion tarted up as fact through the smoke and mirror act of condescension

 

between yourself & JJ7 there were facts and opinions, i'll enlighten you:

 

FS was a big part [fnar] of the European qualifications (facts) but he also ran out of ideas (strong conjecture/opinion) and the club was nearly bankrupt/in a dire financial situation (fact)

 

what's so hard about it for you?  you quote the Euro qualifications and JJ7 says: "Yep, then he lost the plot, made too many mistakes and nearly bankrupted the club"

 

he's not contradicting you, you can surely understand that?  he's referring to 2 different points in time man

 

then you reply and tell him to repost his rubbish in 5 years!!!  you remind me of billy pilgrim dude, totally shot to f*** through all the time travelling you've done so you can't work out simple linear facts and events anymore

Good points. Im not biting here, honestly as its just a general point, but there are very few people in business or politics or whatever who are always good. Most people usually start to fail and make mistakes in the end. Look at Hitler who performed miricles at the start, Thatcher, Brooks Mileson, Peter Ridsdale, Doug Ellis etc..... Even if Freddy had won us the league for three seasons between 1997 and 2000, you can't just stick with them when they continue to make mistake after mistake.

 

absolutely agree, and it's a balance thing

 

we'd tipped the scales under FS, and as a PLC in my opinion, but we got very unlucky with who bought us out - as has been said countless times the ashley period being an abject failure to date does not validate the later years of FS & the PLC

 

at the end of the day, it depends how you look at it.

 

Football is a risky business. A lot of people say - and not just on here - that if you aren't in europe, you are s***. Construed : what they mean is they have known nothing less than regularly playing in europe, so don't listen to people like me who try to tell them that such things aren't automatic and only the good clubs with good boards qualify regularly for europe. You hit the nail slightly on the head when you say we were "unlucky with who bought us out"........having seen the club when we were REALLY s**** [far more than the supposed "s****" of the recent past, until now since Ashley came in] I see it differently, I see the vast majority of the clubs in the top 2 leagues as being s****, and I say we "got lucky" when we had good directors. It might be quite a while until we "get lucky" again ....... and a lot of people will be sitting around in 10 years time and looking back at the Halls and Shepherd and realise it, but I obviously hope not bearing in mind my age.

 

This is all I've said from day 1 by the way. At least some people - since ashley - have begun to understand.

 

 

 

 

wrongish, it also depends on why you look at it in a certain way. for example why are you determined,against all reason, to try and make out that we weren't in the shit at the end of fred's reign despite all the evidence saying we were ?

 

why are you and others like you, against all reason, determined to try and make out that the Halls and Shepherd weren't the best owners we have had at the club for 50 years and it will very difficult to replace them with better ?

 

And - accept that Mike ashley is taking the club downwards, among the also rans, like the vast majority of other football club owners instead of trying to get among the other top clubs which is where we should be and where we spent our time under the Halls and Shepherd.

 

 

 

People do accept that Mike Ashley is taking the club downwards.

 

However, why do you not accept that when the Halls and Shepherd sold the club to Ashley we were already started on the journey downwards. We may have had years and years competing with the top clubs but the bubble had already burst when Ashley bought us, and this was after others had looked at the books and walked away laughing at the financial mess we were in.

 

 

because they ticked the 2 biggest boxes. They had the ambition to succeed, and they backed their appointed managers

 

That is how we qualfied for europe more than any club bar 4 during their time running the club. I hope you enjoyed it, because we might have shit directors for years, or decades, before we get good ones again.

 

 

 

Same old hyperbole. So you must have missed the grumblings of fans who were not satisfied at the shit that we were turning out week in week out. Were you at the Sheffield United game for instance?

 

Of course I enjoyed the european games, that goes without saying. But that does not excuse Hall and Shepherd from starting us down the road that we are now on. Things had already turned sour before Mike Ashley came along. He has failed to turn that around and that should not be forgotten either, but you cannot say that Hall and Shepherd are blameless in this.

 

football, like life, is all ups and downs. Fortunately, we had a board who delivered more ups than most clubs will ever see. Because they ticked the most important boxes, unlike 80-90% of clubs and their own predecessors and their first successor too, it will be very difficult to find better. Could take decades in fact. Shame they were so shit it takes so long to find someone better isn't it ?

 

 

 

Indeed. But I still think that we would have been in trouble anyway. We were already on this slippery slope when Ashley took over, and I cannot for the life of me see Sam Allardyce keeping us up last season. For all the glorious football we had, the problems were already there when Ashley took over. Again this does not excuse him from the state he has managed to get us into, but Shepherd has to take some of the blame.

[Dave]

I - and I'm certain madras and pretty much everyone else - totally accept Shepherd et al gave us the best years of the last fifty, and they ticked several very important boxes. I also accept that Ashley isn't what I hoped he would be, not by a long stretch.

 

Do you NE5 accept that in the latter years under Shepherd's tenure the performances on the pitch were very average and the performance off it was worrying at best?

[lovejoy]

I - and I'm certain madras and pretty much everyone else - totally accept Shepherd et al gave us the best years of the last fifty, and they ticked several very important boxes. I also accept that Ashley isn't what I hoped he would be, not by a long stretch.

 

 

 

can we just end it there? surely that sums the whole debate up?

[Dave]

I - and I'm certain madras and pretty much everyone else - totally accept Shepherd et al gave us the best years of the last fifty, and they ticked several very important boxes. I also accept that Ashley isn't what I hoped he would be, not by a long stretch.

 

 

 

can we just end it there? surely that sums the whole debate up?

 

By editing out the second part though you're omitting the hypocrisy. I'm more than willing to admit things are shit at the minute. NE5 is completely unwilling to admit anything but instead prefers to point-score. Over and over and over again.

 

Fair comment though, I'm not going to persue it any more in this thread. I guess the answer (or not) to the question above will tell its own story.

[lovejoy]

I - and I'm certain madras and pretty much everyone else - totally accept Shepherd et al gave us the best years of the last fifty, and they ticked several very important boxes. I also accept that Ashley isn't what I hoped he would be, not by a long stretch.

 

 

 

can we just end it there? surely that sums the whole debate up?

 

By editing out the second part though you're omitting the hypocrisy. I'm more than willing to admit things are s*** at the minute. NE5 is completely unwilling to admit anything but instead prefers to point-score. Over and over and over again.

 

Fair comment though, I'm not going to persue it any more in this thread. I guess the answer (or not) to the question above will tell its own story.

 

didnt mean that against you in any way, or ne5 tbh, it just shows that we all accept that at times it was great, but we will never know if we would have went bust etc, as he isnt here anymore.

 

its best left at that imo, this has been going on for years and will carry on for years to come if it isnt just agreed to disagree?

[lovejoy]

I - and I'm certain madras and pretty much everyone else - totally accept Shepherd et al gave us the best years of the last fifty, and they ticked several very important boxes. I also accept that Ashley isn't what I hoped he would be, not by a long stretch.

 

 

 

can we just end it there? surely that sums the whole debate up?

 

By editing out the second part though you're omitting the hypocrisy. I'm more than willing to admit things are s*** at the minute. NE5 is completely unwilling to admit anything but instead prefers to point-score. Over and over and over again.

 

Fair comment though, I'm not going to persue it any more in this thread. I guess the answer (or not) to the question above will tell its own story.

 

exactly, if he comes back with a yes, then its done and dusted!

[JJ7]

Hmm.....no reply. Always puzzles me this, that I give out facts and people think its a wind up ?

 

actually you don't, you give one fact repeated ad nauseam - the rest is your opinion tarted up as fact through the smoke and mirror act of condescension

 

between yourself & JJ7 there were facts and opinions, i'll enlighten you:

 

FS was a big part [fnar] of the European qualifications (facts) but he also ran out of ideas (strong conjecture/opinion) and the club was nearly bankrupt/in a dire financial situation (fact)

 

what's so hard about it for you?  you quote the Euro qualifications and JJ7 says: "Yep, then he lost the plot, made too many mistakes and nearly bankrupted the club"

 

he's not contradicting you, you can surely understand that?  he's referring to 2 different points in time man

 

then you reply and tell him to repost his rubbish in 5 years!!!  you remind me of billy pilgrim dude, totally shot to f*** through all the time travelling you've done so you can't work out simple linear facts and events anymore

Good points. Im not biting here, honestly as its just a general point, but there are very few people in business or politics or whatever who are always good. Most people usually start to fail and make mistakes in the end. Look at Hitler who performed miricles at the start, Thatcher, Brooks Mileson, Peter Ridsdale, Doug Ellis etc..... Even if Freddy had won us the league for three seasons between 1997 and 2000, you can't just stick with them when they continue to make mistake after mistake.

 

absolutely agree, and it's a balance thing

 

we'd tipped the scales under FS, and as a PLC in my opinion, but we got very unlucky with who bought us out - as has been said countless times the ashley period being an abject failure to date does not validate the later years of FS & the PLC

 

at the end of the day, it depends how you look at it.

 

Football is a risky business. A lot of people say - and not just on here - that if you aren't in europe, you are s***. Construed : what they mean is they have known nothing less than regularly playing in europe, so don't listen to people like me who try to tell them that such things aren't automatic and only the good clubs with good boards qualify regularly for europe. You hit the nail slightly on the head when you say we were "unlucky with who bought us out"........having seen the club when we were REALLY s**** [far more than the supposed "s****" of the recent past, until now since Ashley came in] I see it differently, I see the vast majority of the clubs in the top 2 leagues as being s****, and I say we "got lucky" when we had good directors. It might be quite a while until we "get lucky" again ....... and a lot of people will be sitting around in 10 years time and looking back at the Halls and Shepherd and realise it, but I obviously hope not bearing in mind my age.

 

This is all I've said from day 1 by the way. At least some people - since ashley - have begun to understand.

 

 

 

 

wrongish, it also depends on why you look at it in a certain way. for example why are you determined,against all reason, to try and make out that we weren't in the s*** at the end of fred's reign despite all the evidence saying we were ?

 

why are you and others like you, against all reason, determined to try and make out that the Halls and Shepherd weren't the best owners we have had at the club for 50 years and it will very difficult to replace them with better ?

 

And - accept that Mike ashley is taking the club downwards, among the also rans, like the vast majority of other football club owners instead of trying to get among the other top clubs which is where we should be and where we spent our time under the Halls and Shepherd.

 

 

 

People do accept that Mike Ashley is taking the club downwards.

 

However, why do you not accept that when the Halls and Shepherd sold the club to Ashley we were already started on the journey downwards. We may have had years and years competing with the top clubs but the bubble had already burst when Ashley bought us, and this was after others had looked at the books and walked away laughing at the financial mess we were in.

 

 

because they ticked the 2 biggest boxes. They had the ambition to succeed, and they backed their appointed managers

 

That is how we qualfied for europe more than any club bar 4 during their time running the club. I hope you enjoyed it, because we might have s*** directors for years, or decades, before we get good ones again.

 

 

 

Same old hyperbole. So you must have missed the grumblings of fans who were not satisfied at the s*** that we were turning out week in week out. Were you at the Sheffield United game for instance?

 

Of course I enjoyed the european games, that goes without saying. But that does not excuse Hall and Shepherd from starting us down the road that we are now on. Things had already turned sour before Mike Ashley came along. He has failed to turn that around and that should not be forgotten either, but you cannot say that Hall and Shepherd are blameless in this.

 

football, like life, is all ups and downs. Fortunately, we had a board who delivered more ups than most clubs will ever see. Because they ticked the most important boxes, unlike 80-90% of clubs and their own predecessors and their first successor too, it will be very difficult to find better. Could take decades in fact. Shame they were so s*** it takes so long to find someone better isn't it ?

 

 

Of course football is about ups and downs, but no decent chairman should let the downs lead a club towards nearly being bankrupt. Leeds had massive ups under Ridsdale, but look at them now because of what happened back then. Theres ambition, then theres stupidity.

 

I agree that Shepherds ambition was great when we were qualifying for the Champions League under Robson. But Shepherd was stupid in the timing of his sacking of Robson, then his next 2 appointments. A chairmans main job is to pick a manager, and he failed not once, but TWICE in a row. Throwing money at a shite manager, who is unlikely to get you a return on your investment (i.e. by qualifying for the Champions League) is pure stupidity.

 

NE5, you look at things too simplistically and ignore what others are saying. You're either on the wind up, or you just love an arguement and don't actually believe what you're saying.

[NE5]

I - and I'm certain madras and pretty much everyone else - totally accept Shepherd et al gave us the best years of the last fifty, and they ticked several very important boxes. I also accept that Ashley isn't what I hoped he would be, not by a long stretch.

 

 

 

can we just end it there? surely that sums the whole debate up?

 

By editing out the second part though you're omitting the hypocrisy. I'm more than willing to admit things are shit at the minute. NE5 is completely unwilling to admit anything but instead prefers to point-score. Over and over and over again.

 

Fair comment though, I'm not going to persue it any more in this thread. I guess the answer (or not) to the question above will tell its own story.

 

no, I don't think the performance was average at all in the bigger scheme of things, if it WAS, then it was only average by their own higher standards as put against the club they took over, and the club we are now as we slide downwards with ever quickening speed.

 

And, I've said this before. Give me a club who takes a risk and has a go rather than one who settles for safety.

 

Now. I'll ask YOU 2 things in relation to the above. Do you - and anyone else - now consider that if Mike Ashley ran this club sitting in mid table - would you still consider it to be mediocre, or successful ?

 

And - will you now settle for the next decade of financial stability while looking upwards at teams playing in europe knowing we were not going to risk our new found stability to try and join them ?

 

Lastly.....once again Dave you have totally ignored the complete childishness of someone else when responding to me, in this case it was jimmymag. You DO see his comments as being childish I take it ? They certainly weren't of an intelligent or mature nature, were they ?

 

These comments are my genuine responses to what you asked, as they always have been.

 

 

[NE5]

I - and I'm certain madras and pretty much everyone else - totally accept Shepherd et al gave us the best years of the last fifty, and they ticked several very important boxes. I also accept that Ashley isn't what I hoped he would be, not by a long stretch.

 

 

 

can we just end it there? surely that sums the whole debate up?

 

By editing out the second part though you're omitting the hypocrisy. I'm more than willing to admit things are s*** at the minute. NE5 is completely unwilling to admit anything but instead prefers to point-score. Over and over and over again.

 

Fair comment though, I'm not going to persue it any more in this thread. I guess the answer (or not) to the question above will tell its own story.

 

exactly, if he comes back with a yes, then its done and dusted!

 

I've made my reply, and I have to say, I'm surprised that you are taking this stance mate

 

 

[NE5]

Hmm.....no reply. Always puzzles me this, that I give out facts and people think its a wind up ?

 

actually you don't, you give one fact repeated ad nauseam - the rest is your opinion tarted up as fact through the smoke and mirror act of condescension

 

between yourself & JJ7 there were facts and opinions, i'll enlighten you:

 

FS was a big part [fnar] of the European qualifications (facts) but he also ran out of ideas (strong conjecture/opinion) and the club was nearly bankrupt/in a dire financial situation (fact)

 

what's so hard about it for you?  you quote the Euro qualifications and JJ7 says: "Yep, then he lost the plot, made too many mistakes and nearly bankrupted the club"

 

he's not contradicting you, you can surely understand that?  he's referring to 2 different points in time man

 

then you reply and tell him to repost his rubbish in 5 years!!!  you remind me of billy pilgrim dude, totally shot to f*** through all the time travelling you've done so you can't work out simple linear facts and events anymore

Good points. Im not biting here, honestly as its just a general point, but there are very few people in business or politics or whatever who are always good. Most people usually start to fail and make mistakes in the end. Look at Hitler who performed miricles at the start, Thatcher, Brooks Mileson, Peter Ridsdale, Doug Ellis etc..... Even if Freddy had won us the league for three seasons between 1997 and 2000, you can't just stick with them when they continue to make mistake after mistake.

 

absolutely agree, and it's a balance thing

 

we'd tipped the scales under FS, and as a PLC in my opinion, but we got very unlucky with who bought us out - as has been said countless times the ashley period being an abject failure to date does not validate the later years of FS & the PLC

 

at the end of the day, it depends how you look at it.

 

Football is a risky business. A lot of people say - and not just on here - that if you aren't in europe, you are s***. Construed : what they mean is they have known nothing less than regularly playing in europe, so don't listen to people like me who try to tell them that such things aren't automatic and only the good clubs with good boards qualify regularly for europe. You hit the nail slightly on the head when you say we were "unlucky with who bought us out"........having seen the club when we were REALLY s**** [far more than the supposed "s****" of the recent past, until now since Ashley came in] I see it differently, I see the vast majority of the clubs in the top 2 leagues as being s****, and I say we "got lucky" when we had good directors. It might be quite a while until we "get lucky" again ....... and a lot of people will be sitting around in 10 years time and looking back at the Halls and Shepherd and realise it, but I obviously hope not bearing in mind my age.

 

This is all I've said from day 1 by the way. At least some people - since ashley - have begun to understand.

 

 

 

 

wrongish, it also depends on why you look at it in a certain way. for example why are you determined,against all reason, to try and make out that we weren't in the s*** at the end of fred's reign despite all the evidence saying we were ?

 

why are you and others like you, against all reason, determined to try and make out that the Halls and Shepherd weren't the best owners we have had at the club for 50 years and it will very difficult to replace them with better ?

 

And - accept that Mike ashley is taking the club downwards, among the also rans, like the vast majority of other football club owners instead of trying to get among the other top clubs which is where we should be and where we spent our time under the Halls and Shepherd.

 

 

 

People do accept that Mike Ashley is taking the club downwards.

 

However, why do you not accept that when the Halls and Shepherd sold the club to Ashley we were already started on the journey downwards. We may have had years and years competing with the top clubs but the bubble had already burst when Ashley bought us, and this was after others had looked at the books and walked away laughing at the financial mess we were in.

 

 

because they ticked the 2 biggest boxes. They had the ambition to succeed, and they backed their appointed managers

 

That is how we qualfied for europe more than any club bar 4 during their time running the club. I hope you enjoyed it, because we might have s*** directors for years, or decades, before we get good ones again.

 

 

 

Same old hyperbole. So you must have missed the grumblings of fans who were not satisfied at the s*** that we were turning out week in week out. Were you at the Sheffield United game for instance?

 

Of course I enjoyed the european games, that goes without saying. But that does not excuse Hall and Shepherd from starting us down the road that we are now on. Things had already turned sour before Mike Ashley came along. He has failed to turn that around and that should not be forgotten either, but you cannot say that Hall and Shepherd are blameless in this.

 

football, like life, is all ups and downs. Fortunately, we had a board who delivered more ups than most clubs will ever see. Because they ticked the most important boxes, unlike 80-90% of clubs and their own predecessors and their first successor too, it will be very difficult to find better. Could take decades in fact. Shame they were so s*** it takes so long to find someone better isn't it ?

 

 

Of course football is about ups and downs, but no decent chairman should let the downs lead a club towards nearly being bankrupt. Leeds had massive ups under Ridsdale, but look at them now because of what happened back then. Theres ambition, then theres stupidity.

 

I agree that Shepherds ambition was great when we were qualifying for the Champions League under Robson. But Shepherd was stupid in the timing of his sacking of Robson, then his next 2 appointments. A chairmans main job is to pick a manager, and he failed not once, but TWICE in a row. Throwing money at a shite manager, who is unlikely to get you a return on your investment (i.e. by qualifying for the Champions League) is pure stupidity.

 

NE5, you look at things too simplistically and ignore what others are saying. You're either on the wind up, or you just love an arguement and don't actually believe what you're saying.

 

I believe what I'm saying alright. I always have, and whats more, all the things I have said in the past which I got flak for, are all vindicated because they turned out to be right.

 

 

[dcmk]

Hmm.....no reply. Always puzzles me this, that I give out facts and people think its a wind up ?

 

actually you don't, you give one fact repeated ad nauseam - the rest is your opinion tarted up as fact through the smoke and mirror act of condescension

 

between yourself & JJ7 there were facts and opinions, i'll enlighten you:

 

FS was a big part [fnar] of the European qualifications (facts) but he also ran out of ideas (strong conjecture/opinion) and the club was nearly bankrupt/in a dire financial situation (fact)

 

what's so hard about it for you?  you quote the Euro qualifications and JJ7 says: "Yep, then he lost the plot, made too many mistakes and nearly bankrupted the club"

 

he's not contradicting you, you can surely understand that?  he's referring to 2 different points in time man

 

then you reply and tell him to repost his rubbish in 5 years!!!  you remind me of billy pilgrim dude, totally shot to f*** through all the time travelling you've done so you can't work out simple linear facts and events anymore

Good points. Im not biting here, honestly as its just a general point, but there are very few people in business or politics or whatever who are always good. Most people usually start to fail and make mistakes in the end. Look at Hitler who performed miricles at the start, Thatcher, Brooks Mileson, Peter Ridsdale, Doug Ellis etc..... Even if Freddy had won us the league for three seasons between 1997 and 2000, you can't just stick with them when they continue to make mistake after mistake.

 

absolutely agree, and it's a balance thing

 

we'd tipped the scales under FS, and as a PLC in my opinion, but we got very unlucky with who bought us out - as has been said countless times the ashley period being an abject failure to date does not validate the later years of FS & the PLC

 

at the end of the day, it depends how you look at it.

 

Football is a risky business. A lot of people say - and not just on here - that if you aren't in europe, you are s***. Construed : what they mean is they have known nothing less than regularly playing in europe, so don't listen to people like me who try to tell them that such things aren't automatic and only the good clubs with good boards qualify regularly for europe. You hit the nail slightly on the head when you say we were "unlucky with who bought us out"........having seen the club when we were REALLY s**** [far more than the supposed "s****" of the recent past, until now since Ashley came in] I see it differently, I see the vast majority of the clubs in the top 2 leagues as being s****, and I say we "got lucky" when we had good directors. It might be quite a while until we "get lucky" again ....... and a lot of people will be sitting around in 10 years time and looking back at the Halls and Shepherd and realise it, but I obviously hope not bearing in mind my age.

 

This is all I've said from day 1 by the way. At least some people - since ashley - have begun to understand.

 

 

 

 

wrongish, it also depends on why you look at it in a certain way. for example why are you determined,against all reason, to try and make out that we weren't in the s*** at the end of fred's reign despite all the evidence saying we were ?

 

why are you and others like you, against all reason, determined to try and make out that the Halls and Shepherd weren't the best owners we have had at the club for 50 years and it will very difficult to replace them with better ?

 

And - accept that Mike ashley is taking the club downwards, among the also rans, like the vast majority of other football club owners instead of trying to get among the other top clubs which is where we should be and where we spent our time under the Halls and Shepherd.

 

 

 

People do accept that Mike Ashley is taking the club downwards.

 

However, why do you not accept that when the Halls and Shepherd sold the club to Ashley we were already started on the journey downwards. We may have had years and years competing with the top clubs but the bubble had already burst when Ashley bought us, and this was after others had looked at the books and walked away laughing at the financial mess we were in.

 

 

because they ticked the 2 biggest boxes. They had the ambition to succeed, and they backed their appointed managers

 

That is how we qualfied for europe more than any club bar 4 during their time running the club. I hope you enjoyed it, because we might have s*** directors for years, or decades, before we get good ones again.

 

 

 

Same old hyperbole. So you must have missed the grumblings of fans who were not satisfied at the s*** that we were turning out week in week out. Were you at the Sheffield United game for instance?

 

Of course I enjoyed the european games, that goes without saying. But that does not excuse Hall and Shepherd from starting us down the road that we are now on. Things had already turned sour before Mike Ashley came along. He has failed to turn that around and that should not be forgotten either, but you cannot say that Hall and Shepherd are blameless in this.

 

football, like life, is all ups and downs. Fortunately, we had a board who delivered more ups than most clubs will ever see. Because they ticked the most important boxes, unlike 80-90% of clubs and their own predecessors and their first successor too, it will be very difficult to find better. Could take decades in fact. Shame they were so s*** it takes so long to find someone better isn't it ?

 

 

Of course football is about ups and downs, but no decent chairman should let the downs lead a club towards nearly being bankrupt. Leeds had massive ups under Ridsdale, but look at them now because of what happened back then. Theres ambition, then theres stupidity.

 

I agree that Shepherds ambition was great when we were qualifying for the Champions League under Robson. But Shepherd was stupid in the timing of his sacking of Robson, then his next 2 appointments. A chairmans main job is to pick a manager, and he failed not once, but TWICE in a row. Throwing money at a s**** manager, who is unlikely to get you a return on your investment (i.e. by qualifying for the Champions League) is pure stupidity.

 

NE5, you look at things too simplistically and ignore what others are saying. You're either on the wind up, or you just love an arguement and don't actually believe what you're saying.

 

It was pretty clear Shepherd wanted to cut down on the borrowing by the appointment of Allardyce, and this bankruptcy  talk is all speculation - it didnt happen so how can you presume it was going to happen.

 

Shepherd could clearly hold back on spending and be prudent ie: summer of Bowyer and Woodgate sale, yet the ironic thing is we didn't spend in that summer and Shepherd got criticized beyond belief for lack of ambition.  When really he was being cautious as we weren't guaranteed Champions League football that year.  Yet now in hindsight have forum members saying 'spent too much!', 'out of control!', 'ridsdale!'.  It's all a bit ridiculous.