Financial meltdown?

[Guest toonlass]

What's ambition got to do with it? I thought it was all supposed to be down to blind luck.

If you don’t shoot you can’t score - Johan Cruyff

was it not malcolm macdonald that said that ?

 

and the truth is that they didn't shoot every time, they took what they thought was the best option.

 

i'd still love to know where this money was going to come from ?

 

i've covered the debts of others and shown that some clubs,because of the financial position they are in are better able to accumulate and carry debt,so just saying borrow more is,at best naive, at worst,stupid. i'm open to any sensible ideas.

I’d imagine quite a few people have said it over the years.

 

The money could have come from a number of places. A share issue for example. However I think the Barclay’s would have been the most likely place. They have a vested interest in seeing the club prosper and would probably have provided a bit more funding, probably on certain conditions. As I understand it they had already insisted on board representation in exchange for a loan extension a year or two before Ashley took over.

a share issue ? possible but with what happened with the previous shares....unlikely.

 

barclays........they might have gave us a loan to keep us going (what has the shortfall been the last few years ?) but unlikely they'd have given more to "invest" when we can't come close to making ends meet as it is. (agreed barclays have a vested interest to in us doing well but they also have similar interests in lots of other companies they aren't backing right now in better financial positions)

Right not, but it was different two years ago. We’ll never know what position we’d be in now if Hall and Shepherd still owned the club, there’s just no way of knowing. However we do know the club wouldn’t have had to find £45m to pay off the redevelopment loan in one go if they’d stayed, which would surely have eased the financial pressure. 

 

IMO Hall & Shepherd did a lot more good than bad. Establishing NUFC in the PL and building a stadium worthy of the support for a debt of £70m is pretty good going. They understood the club. They knew if they provided  a decent team 50,000 would fill the ground. Ashley was banking on 50,000 turning up to watch total crap.

 

Criticism of the previous owners may be valid but trying to pin the current disaster on them is way off the mark. 

2 years ago was after the wages ratio started getting taking off. ask yourself, mounting debts,dodgy business plan (re outgoings in particular wages),poor on the field performance. in my opinion the banks would help keep the club going (day to day financing) but wouldn't stump up for major investment. can't actually think of a decent reason why they would.

How about,  if NUFC got relegated the banks would probably never get any of their money back?

 

Didn’t Ashley extend the club’s overdraft by £10m recently?

that goes for every club in relegation trouble. should the banks pay for all of them to buy more players to help them avoid relegation ? what about all those clubs who have gone under ? why didn't the banks bail them out to avoid losing their money ? more of a question is why ashley didn't spend some of his money to protect his investment as he stands to lose more than the banks would have ?

 

if ashley did extend the overdraft it was as likely to be as a way of paying the day to day costs.

How many of those clubs can guarantee 50,000 every week if the home team is half decent?

 

This debate is one that will never be resolved, as both sides are right. There can be no doubt Shepherd faced difficulties on the money front,  but no evidence that can prove the club was up s*** creek without a paddle. There’s also no doubt the club made significant progress under Hall/Shepherd.

 

When SJH took over he made his objectives clear.  NUFC should be one of the foremost clubs in the first division, playing in one of the best stadia in the country,  and should make a successful return to European football. He delivered all three, and when he left we were only three decent players away from getting back into Europe.

 

SJH had vision. Ashley doesn’t.

 

With people chosing to cancel their season tickets because they are "boycoutting" Ashley how do you see a way forward. I am not saying that everyone who cancels their season ticket is in that position, but every single season ticket holder who has chosen to cancel because of Ashley is causing the financial ruin of Newcastle United.

 

There are day to day bills to pay, which we are struggling to already. By cancelling Direct Debits and season tickets fans are adding to that problem. I have no problem with anyone stopping buying products from Sports Direct (as that is not directly linked to Newcastle United), but cannot support the boycotting of our own club. Unless you want to see Newcastle United go down the pan that is.

 

Money is not a finite thing, Newcastle United under Shepherd, Hall or Ashley could not keep remortgaging to keep itself going despite what people think. Again this doesn't absolve Ashley from his mistakes but the foundations of the problem had already been laid by Shepherd and Hall.

 

You said earlier you would gladly see fans walk away from the club, canceling their season tickets and play in a half empty stadium with true supporters.  Now you say it would add to them problems...

 

Aye, I am a female, I am allowed to be fickle.

 

The thing is, the fans who are chosing to cancel because of Ashley might as well get themselves away. They cannot see that boycotting the club will damage it even more through their petty actions. I don't support their actions at all, but I am not going to waste my time trying to convince them to stay either.

 

If it was possible I would love to see 50,000 hardcore, noisy, passionate fans in St James' every game, but the price of tickets has caused a lot of fans to be priced out of the game.

Who said anything about boycotting the club?

 

There’s will be no problem getting tickets next season, and not buying a season ticket is the best way of saying to Ashley shape up or ship out. Not buying a ST gives supporters some instant clout, an ability to respond to events - get it right we turn up, carry on treating us like s**** and we don’t.

 

If supporters want to trust Ashley with £600 that’s fine, but it’s possible to support a football club without having a ST as well. The people on here slagging off those who aren’t renewing need to take a good, long at themselves. They’re not better than everybody else. In fact it could be argued they’re just lazy unthinking sheep, too interested in proviing how loyal they are, and too eager to shout about it.

 

 

I have chosen to renew, and I did think hard about it. I am not happy with Ashley and the way he is running the club, but withdrawing financial support is just going to cause bigger problems for the club. Ashley put the club up for sale and no-one wanted to buy it. So who would he sell it to? You want Ashley out that badly then go and find someone to buy the club from him. I was unhappy with the way we were going under Shepherd and Hall in their latter days, especially how Shepherd and the board were creaming a nice income out of Newcastle United while our finances were going down the pan.

 

You could argue that those renewing their season tickets are lazy, unthinking sheep or you could stop and think about what will be gained by not renewing because you don't like Mike Ashley. You get to pick and chose your games. So how is depriving the lads on the pitch your support on the matches you chose not going to going to help them? How is removing your financial support going to help ease the problem of covering the day to day costs? If Mike Ashley has to put more money in to cover the day to day running costs where will he get the money to put in for players etc? He has already said that he is not prepared to bankroll the club. It is simply going to cause even bigger problems than we are already having.

[madras]

 

most of the correct points are relevant, but have been said before by me and a small handful of others Dave.

 

Its just that fewer people are disagreeing with them now.

 

 

it's true you know. few people disagree that fred and co done well for a while. it's also true that few disagree that he left us in a mess.

[Guest fading star]

What's ambition got to do with it? I thought it was all supposed to be down to blind luck.

If you don’t shoot you can’t score - Johan Cruyff

was it not malcolm macdonald that said that ?

 

and the truth is that they didn't shoot every time, they took what they thought was the best option.

 

i'd still love to know where this money was going to come from ?

 

i've covered the debts of others and shown that some clubs,because of the financial position they are in are better able to accumulate and carry debt,so just saying borrow more is,at best naive, at worst,stupid. i'm open to any sensible ideas.

I’d imagine quite a few people have said it over the years.

 

The money could have come from a number of places. A share issue for example. However I think the Barclay’s would have been the most likely place. They have a vested interest in seeing the club prosper and would probably have provided a bit more funding, probably on certain conditions. As I understand it they had already insisted on board representation in exchange for a loan extension a year or two before Ashley took over.

a share issue ? possible but with what happened with the previous shares....unlikely.

 

barclays........they might have gave us a loan to keep us going (what has the shortfall been the last few years ?) but unlikely they'd have given more to "invest" when we can't come close to making ends meet as it is. (agreed barclays have a vested interest to in us doing well but they also have similar interests in lots of other companies they aren't backing right now in better financial positions)

Right not, but it was different two years ago. We’ll never know what position we’d be in now if Hall and Shepherd still owned the club, there’s just no way of knowing. However we do know the club wouldn’t have had to find £45m to pay off the redevelopment loan in one go if they’d stayed, which would surely have eased the financial pressure. 

 

IMO Hall & Shepherd did a lot more good than bad. Establishing NUFC in the PL and building a stadium worthy of the support for a debt of £70m is pretty good going. They understood the club. They knew if they provided  a decent team 50,000 would fill the ground. Ashley was banking on 50,000 turning up to watch total crap.

 

Criticism of the previous owners may be valid but trying to pin the current disaster on them is way off the mark. 

2 years ago was after the wages ratio started getting taking off. ask yourself, mounting debts,dodgy business plan (re outgoings in particular wages),poor on the field performance. in my opinion the banks would help keep the club going (day to day financing) but wouldn't stump up for major investment. can't actually think of a decent reason why they would.

How about,  if NUFC got relegated the banks would probably never get any of their money back?

 

Didn’t Ashley extend the club’s overdraft by £10m recently?

that goes for every club in relegation trouble. should the banks pay for all of them to buy more players to help them avoid relegation ? what about all those clubs who have gone under ? why didn't the banks bail them out to avoid losing their money ? more of a question is why ashley didn't spend some of his money to protect his investment as he stands to lose more than the banks would have ?

 

if ashley did extend the overdraft it was as likely to be as a way of paying the day to day costs.

How many of those clubs can guarantee 50,000 every week if the home team is half decent?

 

This debate is one that will never be resolved, as both sides are right. There can be no doubt Shepherd faced difficulties on the money front,  but no evidence that can prove the club was up s*** creek without a paddle. There’s also no doubt the club made significant progress under Hall/Shepherd.

 

When SJH took over he made his objectives clear.  NUFC should be one of the foremost clubs in the first division, playing in one of the best stadia in the country,  and should make a successful return to European football. He delivered all three, and when he left we were only three decent players away from getting back into Europe.

 

SJH had vision. Ashley doesn’t.

 

With people chosing to cancel their season tickets because they are "boycoutting" Ashley how do you see a way forward. I am not saying that everyone who cancels their season ticket is in that position, but every single season ticket holder who has chosen to cancel because of Ashley is causing the financial ruin of Newcastle United.

 

There are day to day bills to pay, which we are struggling to already. By cancelling Direct Debits and season tickets fans are adding to that problem. I have no problem with anyone stopping buying products from Sports Direct (as that is not directly linked to Newcastle United), but cannot support the boycotting of our own club. Unless you want to see Newcastle United go down the pan that is.

 

Money is not a finite thing, Newcastle United under Shepherd, Hall or Ashley could not keep remortgaging to keep itself going despite what people think. Again this doesn't absolve Ashley from his mistakes but the foundations of the problem had already been laid by Shepherd and Hall.

 

You said earlier you would gladly see fans walk away from the club, canceling their season tickets and play in a half empty stadium with true supporters.  Now you say it would add to them problems...

 

Aye, I am a female, I am allowed to be fickle.

 

The thing is, the fans who are chosing to cancel because of Ashley might as well get themselves away. They cannot see that boycotting the club will damage it even more through their petty actions. I don't support their actions at all, but I am not going to waste my time trying to convince them to stay either.

 

If it was possible I would love to see 50,000 hardcore, noisy, passionate fans in St James' every game, but the price of tickets has caused a lot of fans to be priced out of the game.

Who said anything about boycotting the club?

 

There’s will be no problem getting tickets next season, and not buying a season ticket is the best way of saying to Ashley shape up or ship out. Not buying a ST gives supporters some instant clout, an ability to respond to events - get it right we turn up, carry on treating us like s**** and we don’t.

 

If supporters want to trust Ashley with £600 that’s fine, but it’s possible to support a football club without having a ST as well. The people on here slagging off those who aren’t renewing need to take a good, long at themselves. They’re not better than everybody else. In fact it could be argued they’re just lazy unthinking sheep, too interested in proviing how loyal they are, and too eager to shout about it.

 

 

I have chosen to renew, and I did think hard about it. I am not happy with Ashley and the way he is running the club, but withdrawing financial support is just going to cause bigger problems for the club. Ashley put the club up for sale and no-one wanted to buy it. So who would he sell it to? You want Ashley out that badly then go and find someone to buy the club from him. I was unhappy with the way we were going under Shepherd and Hall in their latter days, especially how Shepherd and the board were creaming a nice income out of Newcastle United while our finances were going down the pan.

 

You could argue that those renewing their season tickets are lazy, unthinking sheep or you could stop and think about what will be gained by not renewing because you don't like Mike Ashley. You get to pick and chose your games. So how is depriving the lads on the pitch your support on the matches you chose not going to going to help them? How is removing your financial support going to help ease the problem of covering the day to day costs? If Mike Ashley has to put more money in to cover the day to day running costs where will he get the money to put in for players etc? He has already said that he is not prepared to bankroll the club. It is simply going to cause even bigger problems than we are already having.

I can’t stand Mr Ashley, but that’s not why I’m not renewing. If you want to renew that’s your choice. What’s not acceptable is your condemnation of those who see things differently. All this ‘good riddance’ stuff is way our of order. Who are you to stand in judgement of other supporters?

[Guest toonlass]

What's ambition got to do with it? I thought it was all supposed to be down to blind luck.

If you don’t shoot you can’t score - Johan Cruyff

was it not malcolm macdonald that said that ?

 

and the truth is that they didn't shoot every time, they took what they thought was the best option.

 

i'd still love to know where this money was going to come from ?

 

i've covered the debts of others and shown that some clubs,because of the financial position they are in are better able to accumulate and carry debt,so just saying borrow more is,at best naive, at worst,stupid. i'm open to any sensible ideas.

I’d imagine quite a few people have said it over the years.

 

The money could have come from a number of places. A share issue for example. However I think the Barclay’s would have been the most likely place. They have a vested interest in seeing the club prosper and would probably have provided a bit more funding, probably on certain conditions. As I understand it they had already insisted on board representation in exchange for a loan extension a year or two before Ashley took over.

a share issue ? possible but with what happened with the previous shares....unlikely.

 

barclays........they might have gave us a loan to keep us going (what has the shortfall been the last few years ?) but unlikely they'd have given more to "invest" when we can't come close to making ends meet as it is. (agreed barclays have a vested interest to in us doing well but they also have similar interests in lots of other companies they aren't backing right now in better financial positions)

Right not, but it was different two years ago. We’ll never know what position we’d be in now if Hall and Shepherd still owned the club, there’s just no way of knowing. However we do know the club wouldn’t have had to find £45m to pay off the redevelopment loan in one go if they’d stayed, which would surely have eased the financial pressure. 

 

IMO Hall & Shepherd did a lot more good than bad. Establishing NUFC in the PL and building a stadium worthy of the support for a debt of £70m is pretty good going. They understood the club. They knew if they provided  a decent team 50,000 would fill the ground. Ashley was banking on 50,000 turning up to watch total crap.

 

Criticism of the previous owners may be valid but trying to pin the current disaster on them is way off the mark. 

2 years ago was after the wages ratio started getting taking off. ask yourself, mounting debts,dodgy business plan (re outgoings in particular wages),poor on the field performance. in my opinion the banks would help keep the club going (day to day financing) but wouldn't stump up for major investment. can't actually think of a decent reason why they would.

How about,  if NUFC got relegated the banks would probably never get any of their money back?

 

Didn’t Ashley extend the club’s overdraft by £10m recently?

that goes for every club in relegation trouble. should the banks pay for all of them to buy more players to help them avoid relegation ? what about all those clubs who have gone under ? why didn't the banks bail them out to avoid losing their money ? more of a question is why ashley didn't spend some of his money to protect his investment as he stands to lose more than the banks would have ?

 

if ashley did extend the overdraft it was as likely to be as a way of paying the day to day costs.

How many of those clubs can guarantee 50,000 every week if the home team is half decent?

 

This debate is one that will never be resolved, as both sides are right. There can be no doubt Shepherd faced difficulties on the money front,  but no evidence that can prove the club was up s*** creek without a paddle. There’s also no doubt the club made significant progress under Hall/Shepherd.

 

When SJH took over he made his objectives clear.  NUFC should be one of the foremost clubs in the first division, playing in one of the best stadia in the country,  and should make a successful return to European football. He delivered all three, and when he left we were only three decent players away from getting back into Europe.

 

SJH had vision. Ashley doesn’t.

 

With people chosing to cancel their season tickets because they are "boycoutting" Ashley how do you see a way forward. I am not saying that everyone who cancels their season ticket is in that position, but every single season ticket holder who has chosen to cancel because of Ashley is causing the financial ruin of Newcastle United.

 

There are day to day bills to pay, which we are struggling to already. By cancelling Direct Debits and season tickets fans are adding to that problem. I have no problem with anyone stopping buying products from Sports Direct (as that is not directly linked to Newcastle United), but cannot support the boycotting of our own club. Unless you want to see Newcastle United go down the pan that is.

 

Money is not a finite thing, Newcastle United under Shepherd, Hall or Ashley could not keep remortgaging to keep itself going despite what people think. Again this doesn't absolve Ashley from his mistakes but the foundations of the problem had already been laid by Shepherd and Hall.

 

You said earlier you would gladly see fans walk away from the club, canceling their season tickets and play in a half empty stadium with true supporters.  Now you say it would add to them problems...

 

Aye, I am a female, I am allowed to be fickle.

 

The thing is, the fans who are chosing to cancel because of Ashley might as well get themselves away. They cannot see that boycotting the club will damage it even more through their petty actions. I don't support their actions at all, but I am not going to waste my time trying to convince them to stay either.

 

If it was possible I would love to see 50,000 hardcore, noisy, passionate fans in St James' every game, but the price of tickets has caused a lot of fans to be priced out of the game.

Who said anything about boycotting the club?

 

There’s will be no problem getting tickets next season, and not buying a season ticket is the best way of saying to Ashley shape up or ship out. Not buying a ST gives supporters some instant clout, an ability to respond to events - get it right we turn up, carry on treating us like s**** and we don’t.

 

If supporters want to trust Ashley with £600 that’s fine, but it’s possible to support a football club without having a ST as well. The people on here slagging off those who aren’t renewing need to take a good, long at themselves. They’re not better than everybody else. In fact it could be argued they’re just lazy unthinking sheep, too interested in proviing how loyal they are, and too eager to shout about it.

 

 

I have chosen to renew, and I did think hard about it. I am not happy with Ashley and the way he is running the club, but withdrawing financial support is just going to cause bigger problems for the club. Ashley put the club up for sale and no-one wanted to buy it. So who would he sell it to? You want Ashley out that badly then go and find someone to buy the club from him. I was unhappy with the way we were going under Shepherd and Hall in their latter days, especially how Shepherd and the board were creaming a nice income out of Newcastle United while our finances were going down the pan.

 

You could argue that those renewing their season tickets are lazy, unthinking sheep or you could stop and think about what will be gained by not renewing because you don't like Mike Ashley. You get to pick and chose your games. So how is depriving the lads on the pitch your support on the matches you chose not going to going to help them? How is removing your financial support going to help ease the problem of covering the day to day costs? If Mike Ashley has to put more money in to cover the day to day running costs where will he get the money to put in for players etc? He has already said that he is not prepared to bankroll the club. It is simply going to cause even bigger problems than we are already having.

I can’t stand Mr Ashley, but that’s not why I’m not renewing. If you want to renew that’s your choice. What’s not acceptable is your condemnation of those who see things differently. All this ‘good riddance’ stuff is way our of order. Who are you to stand in judgement of other supporters?

 

I have the same right to think that as you have to think that those who have renewed are "lazy, unthinking sheep".

[NE5]

 

most of the correct points are relevant, but have been said before by me and a small handful of others Dave.

 

Its just that fewer people are disagreeing with them now.

 

 

it's true you know. few people disagree that fred and co done well for a while. it's also true that few disagree that he left us in a mess.

 

no, a mess is where Mr Ashley will leave us, not where the Halls and Shepherd left us - which was a european qualification only 12 months before left and an established top premiership club. But I suppose its all about perspective isn't it. The only thing they did was be victims of their own higher ambitions and expectations.

 

 

[Guest fading star]

What's ambition got to do with it? I thought it was all supposed to be down to blind luck.

If you don’t shoot you can’t score - Johan Cruyff

was it not malcolm macdonald that said that ?

 

and the truth is that they didn't shoot every time, they took what they thought was the best option.

 

i'd still love to know where this money was going to come from ?

 

i've covered the debts of others and shown that some clubs,because of the financial position they are in are better able to accumulate and carry debt,so just saying borrow more is,at best naive, at worst,stupid. i'm open to any sensible ideas.

I’d imagine quite a few people have said it over the years.

 

The money could have come from a number of places. A share issue for example. However I think the Barclay’s would have been the most likely place. They have a vested interest in seeing the club prosper and would probably have provided a bit more funding, probably on certain conditions. As I understand it they had already insisted on board representation in exchange for a loan extension a year or two before Ashley took over.

a share issue ? possible but with what happened with the previous shares....unlikely.

 

barclays........they might have gave us a loan to keep us going (what has the shortfall been the last few years ?) but unlikely they'd have given more to "invest" when we can't come close to making ends meet as it is. (agreed barclays have a vested interest to in us doing well but they also have similar interests in lots of other companies they aren't backing right now in better financial positions)

Right not, but it was different two years ago. We’ll never know what position we’d be in now if Hall and Shepherd still owned the club, there’s just no way of knowing. However we do know the club wouldn’t have had to find £45m to pay off the redevelopment loan in one go if they’d stayed, which would surely have eased the financial pressure. 

 

IMO Hall & Shepherd did a lot more good than bad. Establishing NUFC in the PL and building a stadium worthy of the support for a debt of £70m is pretty good going. They understood the club. They knew if they provided  a decent team 50,000 would fill the ground. Ashley was banking on 50,000 turning up to watch total crap.

 

Criticism of the previous owners may be valid but trying to pin the current disaster on them is way off the mark. 

2 years ago was after the wages ratio started getting taking off. ask yourself, mounting debts,dodgy business plan (re outgoings in particular wages),poor on the field performance. in my opinion the banks would help keep the club going (day to day financing) but wouldn't stump up for major investment. can't actually think of a decent reason why they would.

How about,  if NUFC got relegated the banks would probably never get any of their money back?

 

Didn’t Ashley extend the club’s overdraft by £10m recently?

that goes for every club in relegation trouble. should the banks pay for all of them to buy more players to help them avoid relegation ? what about all those clubs who have gone under ? why didn't the banks bail them out to avoid losing their money ? more of a question is why ashley didn't spend some of his money to protect his investment as he stands to lose more than the banks would have ?

 

if ashley did extend the overdraft it was as likely to be as a way of paying the day to day costs.

How many of those clubs can guarantee 50,000 every week if the home team is half decent?

 

This debate is one that will never be resolved, as both sides are right. There can be no doubt Shepherd faced difficulties on the money front,  but no evidence that can prove the club was up s*** creek without a paddle. There’s also no doubt the club made significant progress under Hall/Shepherd.

 

When SJH took over he made his objectives clear.  NUFC should be one of the foremost clubs in the first division, playing in one of the best stadia in the country,  and should make a successful return to European football. He delivered all three, and when he left we were only three decent players away from getting back into Europe.

 

SJH had vision. Ashley doesn’t.

 

With people chosing to cancel their season tickets because they are "boycoutting" Ashley how do you see a way forward. I am not saying that everyone who cancels their season ticket is in that position, but every single season ticket holder who has chosen to cancel because of Ashley is causing the financial ruin of Newcastle United.

 

There are day to day bills to pay, which we are struggling to already. By cancelling Direct Debits and season tickets fans are adding to that problem. I have no problem with anyone stopping buying products from Sports Direct (as that is not directly linked to Newcastle United), but cannot support the boycotting of our own club. Unless you want to see Newcastle United go down the pan that is.

 

Money is not a finite thing, Newcastle United under Shepherd, Hall or Ashley could not keep remortgaging to keep itself going despite what people think. Again this doesn't absolve Ashley from his mistakes but the foundations of the problem had already been laid by Shepherd and Hall.

 

You said earlier you would gladly see fans walk away from the club, canceling their season tickets and play in a half empty stadium with true supporters.  Now you say it would add to them problems...

 

Aye, I am a female, I am allowed to be fickle.

 

The thing is, the fans who are chosing to cancel because of Ashley might as well get themselves away. They cannot see that boycotting the club will damage it even more through their petty actions. I don't support their actions at all, but I am not going to waste my time trying to convince them to stay either.

 

If it was possible I would love to see 50,000 hardcore, noisy, passionate fans in St James' every game, but the price of tickets has caused a lot of fans to be priced out of the game.

Who said anything about boycotting the club?

 

There’s will be no problem getting tickets next season, and not buying a season ticket is the best way of saying to Ashley shape up or ship out. Not buying a ST gives supporters some instant clout, an ability to respond to events - get it right we turn up, carry on treating us like s**** and we don’t.

 

If supporters want to trust Ashley with £600 that’s fine, but it’s possible to support a football club without having a ST as well. The people on here slagging off those who aren’t renewing need to take a good, long at themselves. They’re not better than everybody else. In fact it could be argued they’re just lazy unthinking sheep, too interested in proviing how loyal they are, and too eager to shout about it.

 

 

I have chosen to renew, and I did think hard about it. I am not happy with Ashley and the way he is running the club, but withdrawing financial support is just going to cause bigger problems for the club. Ashley put the club up for sale and no-one wanted to buy it. So who would he sell it to? You want Ashley out that badly then go and find someone to buy the club from him. I was unhappy with the way we were going under Shepherd and Hall in their latter days, especially how Shepherd and the board were creaming a nice income out of Newcastle United while our finances were going down the pan.

 

You could argue that those renewing their season tickets are lazy, unthinking sheep or you could stop and think about what will be gained by not renewing because you don't like Mike Ashley. You get to pick and chose your games. So how is depriving the lads on the pitch your support on the matches you chose not going to going to help them? How is removing your financial support going to help ease the problem of covering the day to day costs? If Mike Ashley has to put more money in to cover the day to day running costs where will he get the money to put in for players etc? He has already said that he is not prepared to bankroll the club. It is simply going to cause even bigger problems than we are already having.

I can’t stand Mr Ashley, but that’s not why I’m not renewing. If you want to renew that’s your choice. What’s not acceptable is your condemnation of those who see things differently. All this ‘good riddance’ stuff is way our of order. Who are you to stand in judgement of other supporters?

 

I have the same right to think that as you have to think that those who have renewed are "lazy, unthinking sheep".

I merely said it could be argued such. Whereas as you’ve been going round bad mouthing supporters who have decided not to renew.

[Guest toonlass]

What's ambition got to do with it? I thought it was all supposed to be down to blind luck.

If you don’t shoot you can’t score - Johan Cruyff

was it not malcolm macdonald that said that ?

 

and the truth is that they didn't shoot every time, they took what they thought was the best option.

 

i'd still love to know where this money was going to come from ?

 

i've covered the debts of others and shown that some clubs,because of the financial position they are in are better able to accumulate and carry debt,so just saying borrow more is,at best naive, at worst,stupid. i'm open to any sensible ideas.

I’d imagine quite a few people have said it over the years.

 

The money could have come from a number of places. A share issue for example. However I think the Barclay’s would have been the most likely place. They have a vested interest in seeing the club prosper and would probably have provided a bit more funding, probably on certain conditions. As I understand it they had already insisted on board representation in exchange for a loan extension a year or two before Ashley took over.

a share issue ? possible but with what happened with the previous shares....unlikely.

 

barclays........they might have gave us a loan to keep us going (what has the shortfall been the last few years ?) but unlikely they'd have given more to "invest" when we can't come close to making ends meet as it is. (agreed barclays have a vested interest to in us doing well but they also have similar interests in lots of other companies they aren't backing right now in better financial positions)

Right not, but it was different two years ago. We’ll never know what position we’d be in now if Hall and Shepherd still owned the club, there’s just no way of knowing. However we do know the club wouldn’t have had to find £45m to pay off the redevelopment loan in one go if they’d stayed, which would surely have eased the financial pressure. 

 

IMO Hall & Shepherd did a lot more good than bad. Establishing NUFC in the PL and building a stadium worthy of the support for a debt of £70m is pretty good going. They understood the club. They knew if they provided  a decent team 50,000 would fill the ground. Ashley was banking on 50,000 turning up to watch total crap.

 

Criticism of the previous owners may be valid but trying to pin the current disaster on them is way off the mark. 

2 years ago was after the wages ratio started getting taking off. ask yourself, mounting debts,dodgy business plan (re outgoings in particular wages),poor on the field performance. in my opinion the banks would help keep the club going (day to day financing) but wouldn't stump up for major investment. can't actually think of a decent reason why they would.

How about,  if NUFC got relegated the banks would probably never get any of their money back?

 

Didn’t Ashley extend the club’s overdraft by £10m recently?

that goes for every club in relegation trouble. should the banks pay for all of them to buy more players to help them avoid relegation ? what about all those clubs who have gone under ? why didn't the banks bail them out to avoid losing their money ? more of a question is why ashley didn't spend some of his money to protect his investment as he stands to lose more than the banks would have ?

 

if ashley did extend the overdraft it was as likely to be as a way of paying the day to day costs.

How many of those clubs can guarantee 50,000 every week if the home team is half decent?

 

This debate is one that will never be resolved, as both sides are right. There can be no doubt Shepherd faced difficulties on the money front,  but no evidence that can prove the club was up s*** creek without a paddle. There’s also no doubt the club made significant progress under Hall/Shepherd.

 

When SJH took over he made his objectives clear.  NUFC should be one of the foremost clubs in the first division, playing in one of the best stadia in the country,  and should make a successful return to European football. He delivered all three, and when he left we were only three decent players away from getting back into Europe.

 

SJH had vision. Ashley doesn’t.

 

With people chosing to cancel their season tickets because they are "boycoutting" Ashley how do you see a way forward. I am not saying that everyone who cancels their season ticket is in that position, but every single season ticket holder who has chosen to cancel because of Ashley is causing the financial ruin of Newcastle United.

 

There are day to day bills to pay, which we are struggling to already. By cancelling Direct Debits and season tickets fans are adding to that problem. I have no problem with anyone stopping buying products from Sports Direct (as that is not directly linked to Newcastle United), but cannot support the boycotting of our own club. Unless you want to see Newcastle United go down the pan that is.

 

Money is not a finite thing, Newcastle United under Shepherd, Hall or Ashley could not keep remortgaging to keep itself going despite what people think. Again this doesn't absolve Ashley from his mistakes but the foundations of the problem had already been laid by Shepherd and Hall.

 

You said earlier you would gladly see fans walk away from the club, canceling their season tickets and play in a half empty stadium with true supporters.  Now you say it would add to them problems...

 

Aye, I am a female, I am allowed to be fickle.

 

The thing is, the fans who are chosing to cancel because of Ashley might as well get themselves away. They cannot see that boycotting the club will damage it even more through their petty actions. I don't support their actions at all, but I am not going to waste my time trying to convince them to stay either.

 

If it was possible I would love to see 50,000 hardcore, noisy, passionate fans in St James' every game, but the price of tickets has caused a lot of fans to be priced out of the game.

Who said anything about boycotting the club?

 

There’s will be no problem getting tickets next season, and not buying a season ticket is the best way of saying to Ashley shape up or ship out. Not buying a ST gives supporters some instant clout, an ability to respond to events - get it right we turn up, carry on treating us like s**** and we don’t.

 

If supporters want to trust Ashley with £600 that’s fine, but it’s possible to support a football club without having a ST as well. The people on here slagging off those who aren’t renewing need to take a good, long at themselves. They’re not better than everybody else. In fact it could be argued they’re just lazy unthinking sheep, too interested in proviing how loyal they are, and too eager to shout about it.

 

 

I have chosen to renew, and I did think hard about it. I am not happy with Ashley and the way he is running the club, but withdrawing financial support is just going to cause bigger problems for the club. Ashley put the club up for sale and no-one wanted to buy it. So who would he sell it to? You want Ashley out that badly then go and find someone to buy the club from him. I was unhappy with the way we were going under Shepherd and Hall in their latter days, especially how Shepherd and the board were creaming a nice income out of Newcastle United while our finances were going down the pan.

 

You could argue that those renewing their season tickets are lazy, unthinking sheep or you could stop and think about what will be gained by not renewing because you don't like Mike Ashley. You get to pick and chose your games. So how is depriving the lads on the pitch your support on the matches you chose not going to going to help them? How is removing your financial support going to help ease the problem of covering the day to day costs? If Mike Ashley has to put more money in to cover the day to day running costs where will he get the money to put in for players etc? He has already said that he is not prepared to bankroll the club. It is simply going to cause even bigger problems than we are already having.

I can’t stand Mr Ashley, but that’s not why I’m not renewing. If you want to renew that’s your choice. What’s not acceptable is your condemnation of those who see things differently. All this ‘good riddance’ stuff is way our of order. Who are you to stand in judgement of other supporters?

 

I have the same right to think that as you have to think that those who have renewed are "lazy, unthinking sheep".

I merely said it could be argued such. Whereas as you’ve been going round bad mouthing supporters who have decided not to renew.

 

You didn't disassociate yourself from the "sheep" comment though. I have already explained that its not fans that have had cancelled for financial reasons that annoy me. It's the ones who choose to add to our financial pressures by withdrawing their financial support for no other reason than Ashley's presence at the club. They ignore (as you have done) what will happen because of their withdrawing of their financial support. I really don't care why you have chosen to give up your ticket. That is up to you. Do whatever you want to do. But fans who have taken their financial support away from our club cannot start whinging when the club doesn't spend the money that they want them to.

[NE5]

What's ambition got to do with it? I thought it was all supposed to be down to blind luck.

If you don’t shoot you can’t score - Johan Cruyff

was it not malcolm macdonald that said that ?

 

and the truth is that they didn't shoot every time, they took what they thought was the best option.

 

i'd still love to know where this money was going to come from ?

 

i've covered the debts of others and shown that some clubs,because of the financial position they are in are better able to accumulate and carry debt,so just saying borrow more is,at best naive, at worst,stupid. i'm open to any sensible ideas.

I’d imagine quite a few people have said it over the years.

 

The money could have come from a number of places. A share issue for example. However I think the Barclay’s would have been the most likely place. They have a vested interest in seeing the club prosper and would probably have provided a bit more funding, probably on certain conditions. As I understand it they had already insisted on board representation in exchange for a loan extension a year or two before Ashley took over.

a share issue ? possible but with what happened with the previous shares....unlikely.

 

barclays........they might have gave us a loan to keep us going (what has the shortfall been the last few years ?) but unlikely they'd have given more to "invest" when we can't come close to making ends meet as it is. (agreed barclays have a vested interest to in us doing well but they also have similar interests in lots of other companies they aren't backing right now in better financial positions)

Right not, but it was different two years ago. We’ll never know what position we’d be in now if Hall and Shepherd still owned the club, there’s just no way of knowing. However we do know the club wouldn’t have had to find £45m to pay off the redevelopment loan in one go if they’d stayed, which would surely have eased the financial pressure. 

 

IMO Hall & Shepherd did a lot more good than bad. Establishing NUFC in the PL and building a stadium worthy of the support for a debt of £70m is pretty good going. They understood the club. They knew if they provided  a decent team 50,000 would fill the ground. Ashley was banking on 50,000 turning up to watch total crap.

 

Criticism of the previous owners may be valid but trying to pin the current disaster on them is way off the mark. 

2 years ago was after the wages ratio started getting taking off. ask yourself, mounting debts,dodgy business plan (re outgoings in particular wages),poor on the field performance. in my opinion the banks would help keep the club going (day to day financing) but wouldn't stump up for major investment. can't actually think of a decent reason why they would.

How about,  if NUFC got relegated the banks would probably never get any of their money back?

 

Didn’t Ashley extend the club’s overdraft by £10m recently?

that goes for every club in relegation trouble. should the banks pay for all of them to buy more players to help them avoid relegation ? what about all those clubs who have gone under ? why didn't the banks bail them out to avoid losing their money ? more of a question is why ashley didn't spend some of his money to protect his investment as he stands to lose more than the banks would have ?

 

if ashley did extend the overdraft it was as likely to be as a way of paying the day to day costs.

How many of those clubs can guarantee 50,000 every week if the home team is half decent?

 

This debate is one that will never be resolved, as both sides are right. There can be no doubt Shepherd faced difficulties on the money front,  but no evidence that can prove the club was up s*** creek without a paddle. There’s also no doubt the club made significant progress under Hall/Shepherd.

 

When SJH took over he made his objectives clear.  NUFC should be one of the foremost clubs in the first division, playing in one of the best stadia in the country,  and should make a successful return to European football. He delivered all three, and when he left we were only three decent players away from getting back into Europe.

 

SJH had vision. Ashley doesn’t.

 

With people chosing to cancel their season tickets because they are "boycoutting" Ashley how do you see a way forward. I am not saying that everyone who cancels their season ticket is in that position, but every single season ticket holder who has chosen to cancel because of Ashley is causing the financial ruin of Newcastle United.

 

There are day to day bills to pay, which we are struggling to already. By cancelling Direct Debits and season tickets fans are adding to that problem. I have no problem with anyone stopping buying products from Sports Direct (as that is not directly linked to Newcastle United), but cannot support the boycotting of our own club. Unless you want to see Newcastle United go down the pan that is.

 

Money is not a finite thing, Newcastle United under Shepherd, Hall or Ashley could not keep remortgaging to keep itself going despite what people think. Again this doesn't absolve Ashley from his mistakes but the foundations of the problem had already been laid by Shepherd and Hall.

 

You said earlier you would gladly see fans walk away from the club, canceling their season tickets and play in a half empty stadium with true supporters.  Now you say it would add to them problems...

 

Aye, I am a female, I am allowed to be fickle.

 

The thing is, the fans who are chosing to cancel because of Ashley might as well get themselves away. They cannot see that boycotting the club will damage it even more through their petty actions. I don't support their actions at all, but I am not going to waste my time trying to convince them to stay either.

 

If it was possible I would love to see 50,000 hardcore, noisy, passionate fans in St James' every game, but the price of tickets has caused a lot of fans to be priced out of the game.

Who said anything about boycotting the club?

 

There’s will be no problem getting tickets next season, and not buying a season ticket is the best way of saying to Ashley shape up or ship out. Not buying a ST gives supporters some instant clout, an ability to respond to events - get it right we turn up, carry on treating us like s**** and we don’t.

 

If supporters want to trust Ashley with £600 that’s fine, but it’s possible to support a football club without having a ST as well. The people on here slagging off those who aren’t renewing need to take a good, long at themselves. They’re not better than everybody else. In fact it could be argued they’re just lazy unthinking sheep, too interested in proviing how loyal they are, and too eager to shout about it.

 

 

I have chosen to renew, and I did think hard about it. I am not happy with Ashley and the way he is running the club, but withdrawing financial support is just going to cause bigger problems for the club. Ashley put the club up for sale and no-one wanted to buy it. So who would he sell it to? You want Ashley out that badly then go and find someone to buy the club from him. I was unhappy with the way we were going under Shepherd and Hall in their latter days, especially how Shepherd and the board were creaming a nice income out of Newcastle United while our finances were going down the pan.

 

You could argue that those renewing their season tickets are lazy, unthinking sheep or you could stop and think about what will be gained by not renewing because you don't like Mike Ashley. You get to pick and chose your games. So how is depriving the lads on the pitch your support on the matches you chose not going to going to help them? How is removing your financial support going to help ease the problem of covering the day to day costs? If Mike Ashley has to put more money in to cover the day to day running costs where will he get the money to put in for players etc? He has already said that he is not prepared to bankroll the club. It is simply going to cause even bigger problems than we are already having.

I can’t stand Mr Ashley, but that’s not why I’m not renewing. If you want to renew that’s your choice. What’s not acceptable is your condemnation of those who see things differently. All this ‘good riddance’ stuff is way our of order. Who are you to stand in judgement of other supporters?

 

I have the same right to think that as you have to think that those who have renewed are "lazy, unthinking sheep".

I merely said it could be argued such. Whereas as you’ve been going round bad mouthing supporters who have decided not to renew.

 

You didn't disassociate yourself from the "sheep" comment though. I have already explained that its not fans that have had cancelled for financial reasons that annoy me. It's the ones who choose to add to our financial pressures by withdrawing their financial support for no other reason than Ashley's presence at the club. They ignore (as you have done) what will happen because of their withdrawing of their financial support. I really don't care why you have chosen to give up your ticket. That is up to you. Do whatever you want to do. But fans who have taken their financial support away from our club cannot start whinging when the club doesn't spend the money that they want them to.

 

as an aside....[because I accept fading stars point as previously saod] what do you think of the 20-30,000 supporters who suddenly started supporting the club again when the Halls and Keegan took over, and what do you think of those who didn't appreciate it ?

 

 

[madras]

 

most of the correct points are relevant, but have been said before by me and a small handful of others Dave.

 

Its just that fewer people are disagreeing with them now.

 

 

it's true you know. few people disagree that fred and co done well for a while. it's also true that few disagree that he left us in a mess.

 

no, a mess is where Mr Ashley will leave us, not where the Halls and Shepherd left us - which was a european qualification only 12 months before left and an established top premiership club. But I suppose its all about perspective isn't it. The only thing they did was be victims of their own higher ambitions and expectations.

 

 

euro qualification 12 month earlier...so what ? a year is a long time, ipswich went down a year after qualifying for europe,obviously they must have been good as they were a year before.

 

the clubs finances were in a mess. thats why belgravia and polygon legged it. rising debts built on the back of contracts the club couldn't get out of without making losses on the transfer fees. did someone mention that we were paying our sponsors ?. how clever is that ?

 

never mind. we can't get by day to day.

 

we agree on something though. they were victims of their own ambition. (so was george reynolds)

[Guest toonlass]

What's ambition got to do with it? I thought it was all supposed to be down to blind luck.

If you don’t shoot you can’t score - Johan Cruyff

was it not malcolm macdonald that said that ?

 

and the truth is that they didn't shoot every time, they took what they thought was the best option.

 

i'd still love to know where this money was going to come from ?

 

i've covered the debts of others and shown that some clubs,because of the financial position they are in are better able to accumulate and carry debt,so just saying borrow more is,at best naive, at worst,stupid. i'm open to any sensible ideas.

I’d imagine quite a few people have said it over the years.

 

The money could have come from a number of places. A share issue for example. However I think the Barclay’s would have been the most likely place. They have a vested interest in seeing the club prosper and would probably have provided a bit more funding, probably on certain conditions. As I understand it they had already insisted on board representation in exchange for a loan extension a year or two before Ashley took over.

a share issue ? possible but with what happened with the previous shares....unlikely.

 

barclays........they might have gave us a loan to keep us going (what has the shortfall been the last few years ?) but unlikely they'd have given more to "invest" when we can't come close to making ends meet as it is. (agreed barclays have a vested interest to in us doing well but they also have similar interests in lots of other companies they aren't backing right now in better financial positions)

Right not, but it was different two years ago. We’ll never know what position we’d be in now if Hall and Shepherd still owned the club, there’s just no way of knowing. However we do know the club wouldn’t have had to find £45m to pay off the redevelopment loan in one go if they’d stayed, which would surely have eased the financial pressure. 

 

IMO Hall & Shepherd did a lot more good than bad. Establishing NUFC in the PL and building a stadium worthy of the support for a debt of £70m is pretty good going. They understood the club. They knew if they provided  a decent team 50,000 would fill the ground. Ashley was banking on 50,000 turning up to watch total crap.

 

Criticism of the previous owners may be valid but trying to pin the current disaster on them is way off the mark. 

2 years ago was after the wages ratio started getting taking off. ask yourself, mounting debts,dodgy business plan (re outgoings in particular wages),poor on the field performance. in my opinion the banks would help keep the club going (day to day financing) but wouldn't stump up for major investment. can't actually think of a decent reason why they would.

How about,  if NUFC got relegated the banks would probably never get any of their money back?

 

Didn’t Ashley extend the club’s overdraft by £10m recently?

that goes for every club in relegation trouble. should the banks pay for all of them to buy more players to help them avoid relegation ? what about all those clubs who have gone under ? why didn't the banks bail them out to avoid losing their money ? more of a question is why ashley didn't spend some of his money to protect his investment as he stands to lose more than the banks would have ?

 

if ashley did extend the overdraft it was as likely to be as a way of paying the day to day costs.

How many of those clubs can guarantee 50,000 every week if the home team is half decent?

 

This debate is one that will never be resolved, as both sides are right. There can be no doubt Shepherd faced difficulties on the money front,  but no evidence that can prove the club was up s*** creek without a paddle. There’s also no doubt the club made significant progress under Hall/Shepherd.

 

When SJH took over he made his objectives clear.  NUFC should be one of the foremost clubs in the first division, playing in one of the best stadia in the country,  and should make a successful return to European football. He delivered all three, and when he left we were only three decent players away from getting back into Europe.

 

SJH had vision. Ashley doesn’t.

 

With people chosing to cancel their season tickets because they are "boycoutting" Ashley how do you see a way forward. I am not saying that everyone who cancels their season ticket is in that position, but every single season ticket holder who has chosen to cancel because of Ashley is causing the financial ruin of Newcastle United.

 

There are day to day bills to pay, which we are struggling to already. By cancelling Direct Debits and season tickets fans are adding to that problem. I have no problem with anyone stopping buying products from Sports Direct (as that is not directly linked to Newcastle United), but cannot support the boycotting of our own club. Unless you want to see Newcastle United go down the pan that is.

 

Money is not a finite thing, Newcastle United under Shepherd, Hall or Ashley could not keep remortgaging to keep itself going despite what people think. Again this doesn't absolve Ashley from his mistakes but the foundations of the problem had already been laid by Shepherd and Hall.

 

You said earlier you would gladly see fans walk away from the club, canceling their season tickets and play in a half empty stadium with true supporters.  Now you say it would add to them problems...

 

Aye, I am a female, I am allowed to be fickle.

 

The thing is, the fans who are chosing to cancel because of Ashley might as well get themselves away. They cannot see that boycotting the club will damage it even more through their petty actions. I don't support their actions at all, but I am not going to waste my time trying to convince them to stay either.

 

If it was possible I would love to see 50,000 hardcore, noisy, passionate fans in St James' every game, but the price of tickets has caused a lot of fans to be priced out of the game.

Who said anything about boycotting the club?

 

There’s will be no problem getting tickets next season, and not buying a season ticket is the best way of saying to Ashley shape up or ship out. Not buying a ST gives supporters some instant clout, an ability to respond to events - get it right we turn up, carry on treating us like s**** and we don’t.

 

If supporters want to trust Ashley with £600 that’s fine, but it’s possible to support a football club without having a ST as well. The people on here slagging off those who aren’t renewing need to take a good, long at themselves. They’re not better than everybody else. In fact it could be argued they’re just lazy unthinking sheep, too interested in proviing how loyal they are, and too eager to shout about it.

 

 

I have chosen to renew, and I did think hard about it. I am not happy with Ashley and the way he is running the club, but withdrawing financial support is just going to cause bigger problems for the club. Ashley put the club up for sale and no-one wanted to buy it. So who would he sell it to? You want Ashley out that badly then go and find someone to buy the club from him. I was unhappy with the way we were going under Shepherd and Hall in their latter days, especially how Shepherd and the board were creaming a nice income out of Newcastle United while our finances were going down the pan.

 

You could argue that those renewing their season tickets are lazy, unthinking sheep or you could stop and think about what will be gained by not renewing because you don't like Mike Ashley. You get to pick and chose your games. So how is depriving the lads on the pitch your support on the matches you chose not going to going to help them? How is removing your financial support going to help ease the problem of covering the day to day costs? If Mike Ashley has to put more money in to cover the day to day running costs where will he get the money to put in for players etc? He has already said that he is not prepared to bankroll the club. It is simply going to cause even bigger problems than we are already having.

I can’t stand Mr Ashley, but that’s not why I’m not renewing. If you want to renew that’s your choice. What’s not acceptable is your condemnation of those who see things differently. All this ‘good riddance’ stuff is way our of order. Who are you to stand in judgement of other supporters?

 

I have the same right to think that as you have to think that those who have renewed are "lazy, unthinking sheep".

I merely said it could be argued such. Whereas as you’ve been going round bad mouthing supporters who have decided not to renew.

 

You didn't disassociate yourself from the "sheep" comment though. I have already explained that its not fans that have had cancelled for financial reasons that annoy me. It's the ones who choose to add to our financial pressures by withdrawing their financial support for no other reason than Ashley's presence at the club. They ignore (as you have done) what will happen because of their withdrawing of their financial support. I really don't care why you have chosen to give up your ticket. That is up to you. Do whatever you want to do. But fans who have taken their financial support away from our club cannot start whinging when the club doesn't spend the money that they want them to.

 

as an aside....[because I accept fading stars point as previously saod] what do you think of the 20-30,000 supporters who suddenly started supporting the club again when the Halls and Keegan took over, and what do you think of those who didn't appreciate it ?

 

 

 

It doesn't matter what I think of them. I realise that the fan-base had to increase or we would not have been able to borrow and spend and, in some cases, throw away as much cash as we did. I would imagine you have a problem with anyone who started watching after 1992, as you continuously remind us of how long you have supported this club and how much worse we have been and how anyone who hasn't witnessed pre-1992 hasn't got a clue. In one way I was not pleased that the gates suddenly increased with people who jumped aboard, but a lot of people have been with the club for 17 or so years now.

 

Getting back to the topic of finances, I am not sure of how you stand with relation to the boycotting of the club and its merchandise, but how do you think the club will manage with a large amount of money being taken away through the people who choose to with-hold their cash from the club, simply because Ashley is the owner?

[NE5]

What's ambition got to do with it? I thought it was all supposed to be down to blind luck.

If you don’t shoot you can’t score - Johan Cruyff

was it not malcolm macdonald that said that ?

 

and the truth is that they didn't shoot every time, they took what they thought was the best option.

 

i'd still love to know where this money was going to come from ?

 

i've covered the debts of others and shown that some clubs,because of the financial position they are in are better able to accumulate and carry debt,so just saying borrow more is,at best naive, at worst,stupid. i'm open to any sensible ideas.

I’d imagine quite a few people have said it over the years.

 

The money could have come from a number of places. A share issue for example. However I think the Barclay’s would have been the most likely place. They have a vested interest in seeing the club prosper and would probably have provided a bit more funding, probably on certain conditions. As I understand it they had already insisted on board representation in exchange for a loan extension a year or two before Ashley took over.

a share issue ? possible but with what happened with the previous shares....unlikely.

 

barclays........they might have gave us a loan to keep us going (what has the shortfall been the last few years ?) but unlikely they'd have given more to "invest" when we can't come close to making ends meet as it is. (agreed barclays have a vested interest to in us doing well but they also have similar interests in lots of other companies they aren't backing right now in better financial positions)

Right not, but it was different two years ago. We’ll never know what position we’d be in now if Hall and Shepherd still owned the club, there’s just no way of knowing. However we do know the club wouldn’t have had to find £45m to pay off the redevelopment loan in one go if they’d stayed, which would surely have eased the financial pressure. 

 

IMO Hall & Shepherd did a lot more good than bad. Establishing NUFC in the PL and building a stadium worthy of the support for a debt of £70m is pretty good going. They understood the club. They knew if they provided  a decent team 50,000 would fill the ground. Ashley was banking on 50,000 turning up to watch total crap.

 

Criticism of the previous owners may be valid but trying to pin the current disaster on them is way off the mark. 

2 years ago was after the wages ratio started getting taking off. ask yourself, mounting debts,dodgy business plan (re outgoings in particular wages),poor on the field performance. in my opinion the banks would help keep the club going (day to day financing) but wouldn't stump up for major investment. can't actually think of a decent reason why they would.

How about,  if NUFC got relegated the banks would probably never get any of their money back?

 

Didn’t Ashley extend the club’s overdraft by £10m recently?

that goes for every club in relegation trouble. should the banks pay for all of them to buy more players to help them avoid relegation ? what about all those clubs who have gone under ? why didn't the banks bail them out to avoid losing their money ? more of a question is why ashley didn't spend some of his money to protect his investment as he stands to lose more than the banks would have ?

 

if ashley did extend the overdraft it was as likely to be as a way of paying the day to day costs.

How many of those clubs can guarantee 50,000 every week if the home team is half decent?

 

This debate is one that will never be resolved, as both sides are right. There can be no doubt Shepherd faced difficulties on the money front,  but no evidence that can prove the club was up s*** creek without a paddle. There’s also no doubt the club made significant progress under Hall/Shepherd.

 

When SJH took over he made his objectives clear.  NUFC should be one of the foremost clubs in the first division, playing in one of the best stadia in the country,  and should make a successful return to European football. He delivered all three, and when he left we were only three decent players away from getting back into Europe.

 

SJH had vision. Ashley doesn’t.

 

With people chosing to cancel their season tickets because they are "boycoutting" Ashley how do you see a way forward. I am not saying that everyone who cancels their season ticket is in that position, but every single season ticket holder who has chosen to cancel because of Ashley is causing the financial ruin of Newcastle United.

 

There are day to day bills to pay, which we are struggling to already. By cancelling Direct Debits and season tickets fans are adding to that problem. I have no problem with anyone stopping buying products from Sports Direct (as that is not directly linked to Newcastle United), but cannot support the boycotting of our own club. Unless you want to see Newcastle United go down the pan that is.

 

Money is not a finite thing, Newcastle United under Shepherd, Hall or Ashley could not keep remortgaging to keep itself going despite what people think. Again this doesn't absolve Ashley from his mistakes but the foundations of the problem had already been laid by Shepherd and Hall.

 

You said earlier you would gladly see fans walk away from the club, canceling their season tickets and play in a half empty stadium with true supporters.  Now you say it would add to them problems...

 

Aye, I am a female, I am allowed to be fickle.

 

The thing is, the fans who are chosing to cancel because of Ashley might as well get themselves away. They cannot see that boycotting the club will damage it even more through their petty actions. I don't support their actions at all, but I am not going to waste my time trying to convince them to stay either.

 

If it was possible I would love to see 50,000 hardcore, noisy, passionate fans in St James' every game, but the price of tickets has caused a lot of fans to be priced out of the game.

Who said anything about boycotting the club?

 

There’s will be no problem getting tickets next season, and not buying a season ticket is the best way of saying to Ashley shape up or ship out. Not buying a ST gives supporters some instant clout, an ability to respond to events - get it right we turn up, carry on treating us like s**** and we don’t.

 

If supporters want to trust Ashley with £600 that’s fine, but it’s possible to support a football club without having a ST as well. The people on here slagging off those who aren’t renewing need to take a good, long at themselves. They’re not better than everybody else. In fact it could be argued they’re just lazy unthinking sheep, too interested in proviing how loyal they are, and too eager to shout about it.

 

 

I have chosen to renew, and I did think hard about it. I am not happy with Ashley and the way he is running the club, but withdrawing financial support is just going to cause bigger problems for the club. Ashley put the club up for sale and no-one wanted to buy it. So who would he sell it to? You want Ashley out that badly then go and find someone to buy the club from him. I was unhappy with the way we were going under Shepherd and Hall in their latter days, especially how Shepherd and the board were creaming a nice income out of Newcastle United while our finances were going down the pan.

 

You could argue that those renewing their season tickets are lazy, unthinking sheep or you could stop and think about what will be gained by not renewing because you don't like Mike Ashley. You get to pick and chose your games. So how is depriving the lads on the pitch your support on the matches you chose not going to going to help them? How is removing your financial support going to help ease the problem of covering the day to day costs? If Mike Ashley has to put more money in to cover the day to day running costs where will he get the money to put in for players etc? He has already said that he is not prepared to bankroll the club. It is simply going to cause even bigger problems than we are already having.

I can’t stand Mr Ashley, but that’s not why I’m not renewing. If you want to renew that’s your choice. What’s not acceptable is your condemnation of those who see things differently. All this ‘good riddance’ stuff is way our of order. Who are you to stand in judgement of other supporters?

 

I have the same right to think that as you have to think that those who have renewed are "lazy, unthinking sheep".

I merely said it could be argued such. Whereas as you’ve been going round bad mouthing supporters who have decided not to renew.

 

You didn't disassociate yourself from the "sheep" comment though. I have already explained that its not fans that have had cancelled for financial reasons that annoy me. It's the ones who choose to add to our financial pressures by withdrawing their financial support for no other reason than Ashley's presence at the club. They ignore (as you have done) what will happen because of their withdrawing of their financial support. I really don't care why you have chosen to give up your ticket. That is up to you. Do whatever you want to do. But fans who have taken their financial support away from our club cannot start whinging when the club doesn't spend the money that they want them to.

 

as an aside....[because I accept fading stars point as previously saod] what do you think of the 20-30,000 supporters who suddenly started supporting the club again when the Halls and Keegan took over, and what do you think of those who didn't appreciate it ?

 

 

 

It doesn't matter what I think of them . I realise that the fan-base had to increase or we would not have been able to borrow and spend and, in some cases, throw away as much cash as we did. I would imagine you have a problem with anyone who started watching after 1992, as you continuously remind us of how long you have supported this club and how much worse we have been and how anyone who hasn't witnessed pre-1992 hasn't got a clue. In one way I was not pleased that the gates suddenly increased with people who jumped aboard, but a lot of people have been with the club for 17 or so years now.

 

Getting back to the topic of finances, I am not sure of how you stand with relation to the boycotting of the club and its merchandise, but how do you think the club will manage with a large amount of money being taken away through the people who choose to with-hold their cash from the club, simply because Ashley is the owner?

 

it doesn't matter what you think of them but you're good and ready to tell us what you think of those disappearing now and how loyal you are going to be in comparison ?

 

I have bought an odd item from the club shop in the past, but while Ashley runs the club I won't buy anything at all from it or from Sports Direct - which is cheap and nasty shite anyway.

 

The people I have a problem with are those who weren't interested in the club pre-1992 and now say they were, and those who started supporting the club again and then proceeded to slate the people who attracted them back in the first place.

 

I don't really have a problem with the younger lads who have grown up with high expectations, I can understand that I just would prefer them to listen. The club is sinking and we are all in it, but being a supporter doesn't mean you have to donate money to it. If someone wishes to stay away with a view to helping get rid of Ashley, I can understand this. I won't do it personally, but I can understand it.

 

 

[NE5]

 

most of the correct points are relevant, but have been said before by me and a small handful of others Dave.

 

Its just that fewer people are disagreeing with them now.

 

 

it's true you know. few people disagree that fred and co done well for a while. it's also true that few disagree that he left us in a mess.

 

no, a mess is where Mr Ashley will leave us, not where the Halls and Shepherd left us - which was a european qualification only 12 months before left and an established top premiership club. But I suppose its all about perspective isn't it. The only thing they did was be victims of their own higher ambitions and expectations.

 

 

euro qualification 12 month earlier...so what ? a year is a long time, ipswich went down a year after qualifying for europe,obviously they must have been good as they were a year before.

 

the clubs finances were in a mess. thats why belgravia and polygon legged it. rising debts built on the back of contracts the club couldn't get out of without making losses on the transfer fees. did someone mention that we were paying our sponsors ?. how clever is that ?

 

never mind. we can't get by day to day.

 

we agree on something though. they were victims of their own ambition. (so was george reynolds)

 

George Reynolds didn't achieve anything.

 

 

[Guest toonlass]

What's ambition got to do with it? I thought it was all supposed to be down to blind luck.

If you don’t shoot you can’t score - Johan Cruyff

was it not malcolm macdonald that said that ?

 

and the truth is that they didn't shoot every time, they took what they thought was the best option.

 

i'd still love to know where this money was going to come from ?

 

i've covered the debts of others and shown that some clubs,because of the financial position they are in are better able to accumulate and carry debt,so just saying borrow more is,at best naive, at worst,stupid. i'm open to any sensible ideas.

I’d imagine quite a few people have said it over the years.

 

The money could have come from a number of places. A share issue for example. However I think the Barclay’s would have been the most likely place. They have a vested interest in seeing the club prosper and would probably have provided a bit more funding, probably on certain conditions. As I understand it they had already insisted on board representation in exchange for a loan extension a year or two before Ashley took over.

a share issue ? possible but with what happened with the previous shares....unlikely.

 

barclays........they might have gave us a loan to keep us going (what has the shortfall been the last few years ?) but unlikely they'd have given more to "invest" when we can't come close to making ends meet as it is. (agreed barclays have a vested interest to in us doing well but they also have similar interests in lots of other companies they aren't backing right now in better financial positions)

Right not, but it was different two years ago. We’ll never know what position we’d be in now if Hall and Shepherd still owned the club, there’s just no way of knowing. However we do know the club wouldn’t have had to find £45m to pay off the redevelopment loan in one go if they’d stayed, which would surely have eased the financial pressure. 

 

IMO Hall & Shepherd did a lot more good than bad. Establishing NUFC in the PL and building a stadium worthy of the support for a debt of £70m is pretty good going. They understood the club. They knew if they provided  a decent team 50,000 would fill the ground. Ashley was banking on 50,000 turning up to watch total crap.

 

Criticism of the previous owners may be valid but trying to pin the current disaster on them is way off the mark. 

2 years ago was after the wages ratio started getting taking off. ask yourself, mounting debts,dodgy business plan (re outgoings in particular wages),poor on the field performance. in my opinion the banks would help keep the club going (day to day financing) but wouldn't stump up for major investment. can't actually think of a decent reason why they would.

How about,  if NUFC got relegated the banks would probably never get any of their money back?

 

Didn’t Ashley extend the club’s overdraft by £10m recently?

that goes for every club in relegation trouble. should the banks pay for all of them to buy more players to help them avoid relegation ? what about all those clubs who have gone under ? why didn't the banks bail them out to avoid losing their money ? more of a question is why ashley didn't spend some of his money to protect his investment as he stands to lose more than the banks would have ?

 

if ashley did extend the overdraft it was as likely to be as a way of paying the day to day costs.

How many of those clubs can guarantee 50,000 every week if the home team is half decent?

 

This debate is one that will never be resolved, as both sides are right. There can be no doubt Shepherd faced difficulties on the money front,  but no evidence that can prove the club was up s*** creek without a paddle. There’s also no doubt the club made significant progress under Hall/Shepherd.

 

When SJH took over he made his objectives clear.  NUFC should be one of the foremost clubs in the first division, playing in one of the best stadia in the country,  and should make a successful return to European football. He delivered all three, and when he left we were only three decent players away from getting back into Europe.

 

SJH had vision. Ashley doesn’t.

 

With people chosing to cancel their season tickets because they are "boycoutting" Ashley how do you see a way forward. I am not saying that everyone who cancels their season ticket is in that position, but every single season ticket holder who has chosen to cancel because of Ashley is causing the financial ruin of Newcastle United.

 

There are day to day bills to pay, which we are struggling to already. By cancelling Direct Debits and season tickets fans are adding to that problem. I have no problem with anyone stopping buying products from Sports Direct (as that is not directly linked to Newcastle United), but cannot support the boycotting of our own club. Unless you want to see Newcastle United go down the pan that is.

 

Money is not a finite thing, Newcastle United under Shepherd, Hall or Ashley could not keep remortgaging to keep itself going despite what people think. Again this doesn't absolve Ashley from his mistakes but the foundations of the problem had already been laid by Shepherd and Hall.

 

You said earlier you would gladly see fans walk away from the club, canceling their season tickets and play in a half empty stadium with true supporters.  Now you say it would add to them problems...

 

Aye, I am a female, I am allowed to be fickle.

 

The thing is, the fans who are chosing to cancel because of Ashley might as well get themselves away. They cannot see that boycotting the club will damage it even more through their petty actions. I don't support their actions at all, but I am not going to waste my time trying to convince them to stay either.

 

If it was possible I would love to see 50,000 hardcore, noisy, passionate fans in St James' every game, but the price of tickets has caused a lot of fans to be priced out of the game.

Who said anything about boycotting the club?

 

There’s will be no problem getting tickets next season, and not buying a season ticket is the best way of saying to Ashley shape up or ship out. Not buying a ST gives supporters some instant clout, an ability to respond to events - get it right we turn up, carry on treating us like s**** and we don’t.

 

If supporters want to trust Ashley with £600 that’s fine, but it’s possible to support a football club without having a ST as well. The people on here slagging off those who aren’t renewing need to take a good, long at themselves. They’re not better than everybody else. In fact it could be argued they’re just lazy unthinking sheep, too interested in proviing how loyal they are, and too eager to shout about it.

 

 

I have chosen to renew, and I did think hard about it. I am not happy with Ashley and the way he is running the club, but withdrawing financial support is just going to cause bigger problems for the club. Ashley put the club up for sale and no-one wanted to buy it. So who would he sell it to? You want Ashley out that badly then go and find someone to buy the club from him. I was unhappy with the way we were going under Shepherd and Hall in their latter days, especially how Shepherd and the board were creaming a nice income out of Newcastle United while our finances were going down the pan.

 

You could argue that those renewing their season tickets are lazy, unthinking sheep or you could stop and think about what will be gained by not renewing because you don't like Mike Ashley. You get to pick and chose your games. So how is depriving the lads on the pitch your support on the matches you chose not going to going to help them? How is removing your financial support going to help ease the problem of covering the day to day costs? If Mike Ashley has to put more money in to cover the day to day running costs where will he get the money to put in for players etc? He has already said that he is not prepared to bankroll the club. It is simply going to cause even bigger problems than we are already having.

I can’t stand Mr Ashley, but that’s not why I’m not renewing. If you want to renew that’s your choice. What’s not acceptable is your condemnation of those who see things differently. All this ‘good riddance’ stuff is way our of order. Who are you to stand in judgement of other supporters?

 

I have the same right to think that as you have to think that those who have renewed are "lazy, unthinking sheep".

I merely said it could be argued such. Whereas as you’ve been going round bad mouthing supporters who have decided not to renew.

 

You didn't disassociate yourself from the "sheep" comment though. I have already explained that its not fans that have had cancelled for financial reasons that annoy me. It's the ones who choose to add to our financial pressures by withdrawing their financial support for no other reason than Ashley's presence at the club. They ignore (as you have done) what will happen because of their withdrawing of their financial support. I really don't care why you have chosen to give up your ticket. That is up to you. Do whatever you want to do. But fans who have taken their financial support away from our club cannot start whinging when the club doesn't spend the money that they want them to.

 

as an aside....[because I accept fading stars point as previously saod] what do you think of the 20-30,000 supporters who suddenly started supporting the club again when the Halls and Keegan took over, and what do you think of those who didn't appreciate it ?

 

 

 

It doesn't matter what I think of them . I realise that the fan-base had to increase or we would not have been able to borrow and spend and, in some cases, throw away as much cash as we did. I would imagine you have a problem with anyone who started watching after 1992, as you continuously remind us of how long you have supported this club and how much worse we have been and how anyone who hasn't witnessed pre-1992 hasn't got a clue. In one way I was not pleased that the gates suddenly increased with people who jumped aboard, but a lot of people have been with the club for 17 or so years now.

 

Getting back to the topic of finances, I am not sure of how you stand with relation to the boycotting of the club and its merchandise, but how do you think the club will manage with a large amount of money being taken away through the people who choose to with-hold their cash from the club, simply because Ashley is the owner?

 

it doesn't matter what you think of them but you're good and ready to tell us what you think of those disappearing now and how loyal you are going to be in comparison ?

 

I have bought an odd item from the club shop in the past, but while Ashley runs the club I won't buy anything at all from it or from Sports Direct - which is cheap and nasty shite anyway.

 

The people I have a problem with are those who weren't interested in the club pre-1992 and now say they were, and those who started supporting the club again and then proceeded to slate the people who attracted them back in the first place.

 

I don't really have a problem with the younger lads who have grown up with high expectations, I can understand that I just would prefer them to listen. The club is sinking and we are all in it, but being a supporter doesn't mean you have to donate money to it. If someone wishes to stay away with a view to helping get rid of Ashley, I can understand this. I won't do it personally, but I can understand it.

 

 

 

I can understand you not buying anything from Sports Direct. Personally I won't either as its Mike Ashley's company, its not Newcastle United. However I will buy from the club shop and I will keep buying my tickets as this is money that goes into Newcastle United.

 

So are you willing to accept that people who take their custom away from Newcastle United will be contributing to any financial problems we have, and an ability to compete with other clubs? If not, why not?

 

You cannot say anything anyway about trumpeting loyalty, you have spent eons telling everyone that you have been going to the games for years and having a go at anyone you believe (rightly or wrongly) who hasn't.

[madras]

 

most of the correct points are relevant, but have been said before by me and a small handful of others Dave.

 

Its just that fewer people are disagreeing with them now.

 

 

it's true you know. few people disagree that fred and co done well for a while. it's also true that few disagree that he left us in a mess.

 

no, a mess is where Mr Ashley will leave us, not where the Halls and Shepherd left us - which was a european qualification only 12 months before left and an established top premiership club. But I suppose its all about perspective isn't it. The only thing they did was be victims of their own higher ambitions and expectations.

 

 

euro qualification 12 month earlier...so what ? a year is a long time, ipswich went down a year after qualifying for europe,obviously they must have been good as they were a year before.

 

the clubs finances were in a mess. thats why belgravia and polygon legged it. rising debts built on the back of contracts the club couldn't get out of without making losses on the transfer fees. did someone mention that we were paying our sponsors ?. how clever is that ?

 

never mind. we can't get by day to day.

 

we agree on something though. they were victims of their own ambition. (so was george reynolds)

 

George Reynolds didn't achieve anything.

 

 

true but he was a victim of his ambition.

 

and i've said in the past that if fred had lead NUFC to 5 consecutive league titles then 3 years later had us going backwards and looking like he couldn't change it , i'd say "sorry fred, time to go"

[NE5]

 

most of the correct points are relevant, but have been said before by me and a small handful of others Dave.

 

Its just that fewer people are disagreeing with them now.

 

 

it's true you know. few people disagree that fred and co done well for a while. it's also true that few disagree that he left us in a mess.

 

no, a mess is where Mr Ashley will leave us, not where the Halls and Shepherd left us - which was a european qualification only 12 months before left and an established top premiership club. But I suppose its all about perspective isn't it. The only thing they did was be victims of their own higher ambitions and expectations.

 

 

euro qualification 12 month earlier...so what ? a year is a long time, ipswich went down a year after qualifying for europe,obviously they must have been good as they were a year before.

 

the clubs finances were in a mess. thats why belgravia and polygon legged it. rising debts built on the back of contracts the club couldn't get out of without making losses on the transfer fees. did someone mention that we were paying our sponsors ?. how clever is that ?

 

never mind. we can't get by day to day.

 

we agree on something though. they were victims of their own ambition. (so was george reynolds)

 

George Reynolds didn't achieve anything.

 

 

true but he was a victim of his ambition.

 

and i've said in the past that if fred had lead NUFC to 5 consecutive league titles then 3 years later had us going backwards and looking like he couldn't change it , i'd say "sorry fred, time to go"

 

Well, lets hope Ashley can at least match the puny achievement of qualifying for europe more than anybody else but 4 teams.

 

 

[madras]

 

most of the correct points are relevant, but have been said before by me and a small handful of others Dave.

 

Its just that fewer people are disagreeing with them now.

 

 

it's true you know. few people disagree that fred and co done well for a while. it's also true that few disagree that he left us in a mess.

 

no, a mess is where Mr Ashley will leave us, not where the Halls and Shepherd left us - which was a european qualification only 12 months before left and an established top premiership club. But I suppose its all about perspective isn't it. The only thing they did was be victims of their own higher ambitions and expectations.

 

 

euro qualification 12 month earlier...so what ? a year is a long time, ipswich went down a year after qualifying for europe,obviously they must have been good as they were a year before.

 

the clubs finances were in a mess. thats why belgravia and polygon legged it. rising debts built on the back of contracts the club couldn't get out of without making losses on the transfer fees. did someone mention that we were paying our sponsors ?. how clever is that ?

 

never mind. we can't get by day to day.

 

we agree on something though. they were victims of their own ambition. (so was george reynolds)

 

George Reynolds didn't achieve anything.

 

 

true but he was a victim of his ambition.

 

and i've said in the past that if fred had lead NUFC to 5 consecutive league titles then 3 years later had us going backwards and looking like he couldn't change it , i'd say "sorry fred, time to go"

 

Well, lets hope Ashley can at least match the puny achievement of qualifying for europe more than anybody else but 4 teams.

 

 

if he does i hope he doesn't fuck it up afterwards.

[James]

Sunday Times Rich List today.

 

Ashley has fallen way down the list down from £1.4bn to £700m in the past year.

 

Down from £1.8bn when he bought us.

[NE5]

Sunday Times Rich List today.

 

Ashley has fallen way down the list down from £1.4bn to £700m in the past year.

 

Down from £1.8bn when he bought us.

 

oh dear.

 

wonder what the likes of mick, mandiarse, baggio [predictably disappered and frantically searching for some club, anywhere,that has won 2 or 3 games think of this.

 

And Dave too, not forgetting Dave, as whatever I post, he';ll dress it up, compain I dont reply to him [because IIm trying to be diplomactic]

 

 

[Rich]

Me too. I spend every waking minute obsessing over what they think about Mike Ashley and Freddy Shepherd.

 

That's why I'm up after 3am, to be honest, it's keeping me awake.

[Guest sicko2ndbest]

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport/football/278744/Ashley-set-for-quick-sale-if-Toon-are-relegated.html

 

Ashley set for quick sale if Toon are relegated

 

By MARTIN HARDY, 25/04/2009

 

MIKE ASHLEY is facing an £840million 12-month LOSS to his fortune by flogging Newcastle if the club go down.

 

The Toon owner, who has poured £260m into the Magpies, is ready to sell for £120m. That deficit is on top of the £700m he is reported to have lost in the recession.

 

 

Sportswear tycoon Ashley is prepared to sell Newcastle on the cheap if Alan Shearer cannot fight off relegation.

 

 

Two consortiums are believed to be lining up approaches for a quick and comparatively cheap takeover.

 

 

Ashley, who bought the club for £180m and has spent another £80m, failed to find a buyer when he attempted to sell the club last year, but then he was asking for more than £300m.

 

 

Now he is facing a massive £140m LOSS with the club's value expected to hit rock bottom.

 

 

It comes at a time when Ashley's fortune has been HALVED by the recession.

 

Revenue

Last year, the Sunday Times Rich List reported he was worth £1.398billion - but in the new list, published today, the figure is down to £700m. And the Geordie club will see revenue cut by around a third if they cannot hang onto their Premier League status.

 

 

The severity of their financial position means any cut would lead to wage levels almost matching turnover.

 

 

Newcastle's turnover last year was £99.4m - but their wage bill spiralled to £62.6m.

 

 

Experts reckon they will lose £35m a year if they drop out of the top-flight.

 

Drop

They would face a cut in TV revenues, a drop in corporate hospitality, merchandising sales would fall and gate receipts would suffer.

 

 

A city source said: "If Newcastle go down, things will change very quickly.

 

 

"There will be conjecture over plans and terms but it will be a quick sale. He will cut his losses and run."

 

 

Crucially, as revealed in Sport of the World earlier in the season, there are no relegation clauses that would decrease player salaries if they go down.

 

Deals

Newcastle have 10 players picking up more than £50,000 a week and eight of those deals have more than 12 months to run.

 

 

That would increase any desire to sell - and see a firesale in an attempt to balance the books.

 

 

But significantly, Alan Shearer has so far given every indication he sees his role in the Toon hot-seat as a permanent one.

 

 

He will not discuss the position or any contract until the club's predicament is finalised and Joe Kinnear's position is resolved.

 

 

But he has laid plans beyond this season and his desire to arrest Newcastle's dramatic demise has greatly increased the appeal to would-be buyers.

 

Assured

Sport of the World has learned that the stand-in Newcastle boss has met and assured disaffected players that they will be part of next season's plans.

 

 

Shearer held crunch talks Habib Beye last week and told the Senagalese defender he had a big future at the club.

 

 

He also met with the Oba Martins and Mark Viduka and told them they would be key to Newcastle staying up, despite injury-ravaged campaigns.

 

 

Beye said: "Everyone is pulling in the same direction now. Shearer has brought spirit. If you are in the bottom three, it is for a reason. He came to bring heart.

 

 

[madras]

Sunday Times Rich List today.

 

Ashley has fallen way down the list down from £1.4bn to £700m in the past year.

 

Down from £1.8bn when he bought us.

 

oh dear.

 

wonder what the likes of mick, mandiarse, baggio [predictably disappered and frantically searching for some club, anywhere,that has won 2 or 3 games think of this.

 

And Dave too, not forgetting Dave, as whatever I post, he';ll dress it up, compain I dont reply to him [because IIm trying to be diplomactic]

 

 

i very much doubt they'll be too bothered.

[OzzieMandias]

It's hardly news that his fortune tanked in the meltdown, and this has already been much discusseed here, although the earlier estimates of what he had were more like £800 million than £700 million.

 

Obviously it's not good that the man whose money is keeping the club out of insolvency has less money than he used to.

[madras]

i wonder, not just in his case but in others aswell, how much of that wealth is tied up in the stock market and will probably brow again in the coming years ?.

[Guest neesy111]

i wonder, not just in his case but in others aswell, how much of that wealth is tied up in the stock market and will probably brow again in the coming years ?.

 

he has alot of his fortune tied into the stock market, he just put a large amount in umbro to stop nike from taking themover also he own's a bit of JJB (probably just to piss whlean off) but they are on the ropes at the moment

[madras]

i wonder, not just in his case but in others aswell, how much of that wealth is tied up in the stock market and will probably brow again in the coming years ?.

 

he has alot of his fortune tied into the stock market, he just put a large amount in umbro to stop nike from taking themover also he own's a bit of JJB (probably just to piss whlean off) but they are on the ropes at the moment

i can't even find figures for umbro.

 

when you say "just" do you mean the 40mill in 2007 ?