"O'Neill is no better than Roeder"

[Guest kingdawson]

o'neil's a very good manager but Villa will not finish top 10 this season. Think you lot will finish above them this year tbh.

[NE5]

I've got an open mind about this one. I think O'Neill is overrated but I understand why Roeder was given the job - having appointed track record managers in the past - and am prepared to give him time and obviously hope he succeeds.

 

 

[NE5]

He is, but not by any big distance and I bet Roeder would succeed in Scotland, just look at Strachan. Roeder is a better coach, albeit because O'Neill isn't a coach or doesn't coach. Big Sam pisses all over O'Neill though tbh and I can't believe some of the reactions whenever his name has been touted, yet tons of people were creaming themselves at the prospect of O'Neill in the summer.

 

Agree. I also think that those who slate Bolton for the type of football they play wouldn't give a toss what Newcastle played like if they were winning. Not that I think Bolton are so bad anyway because I don't. Allardyce may also be a different manager if he had bigger resources.

 

By far the biggest factor for me is the fact that he is a stayer, he's been there for years, and improved them and kept improving them.

Put against the fact that he can man-manage players, there are many players at Bolton who have been around and they respond to Allardyce, nobody wants to leave Bolton. Gary Speed has said that he is a manager who players listen to when he speaks.

 

This is massively important for a club like Newcastle, it is huge. It makes me even more convinced that Allardyce would have been the man for us. Having said that, I am prepared to back Roeder which is something I never felt about Souness and Gullit too in fact, personally.

 

 

[Guest Knightrider]

He is, but not by any big distance and I bet Roeder would succeed in Scotland, just look at Strachan. Roeder is a better coach, albeit because O'Neill isn't a coach or doesn't coach. Big Sam pisses all over O'Neill though tbh and I can't believe some of the reactions whenever his name has been touted, yet tons of people were creaming themselves at the prospect of O'Neill in the summer.

 

Agree. I also think that those who slate Bolton for the type of football they play wouldn't give a toss what Newcastle played like if they were winning. Not that I think Bolton are so bad anyway because I don't. Allardyce may also be a different manager if he had bigger resources.

 

By far the biggest factor for me is the fact that he is a stayer, he's been there for years, and improved them and kept improving them.

Put against the fact that he can man-manage players, there are many players at Bolton who have been around and they respond to Allardyce, nobody wants to leave Bolton. Gary Speed has said that he is a manager who players listen to when he speaks.

 

This is massively important for a club like Newcastle, it is huge. It makes me even more convinced that Allardyce would have been the man for us. Having said that, I am prepared to back Roeder which is something I never felt about Souness and Gullit too in fact, personally.

 

 

 

Agreed, I'd have him here like a shot and having made it my business to watch a lot of Bolton this season no way are they are a long ball team or an ugly side, they play some neat stuff, especially in midfield. Theyt just mix it up and the media tend to portray them in a certain light for some strange reason, no difference between their playing style than Chelsea or Liverpool and like you said, who really cares if you're winning. I rate Big Sam highly and for me he is on a par with Mourinho and Benitez but lacks their experience. I honestly think Big Sam would be a huge success at Newcastle and would revolutionise the club as a set-up, for certain, if allowed to like he has been at Bolton.

 

People look at his lack of silverware and European experience but while other managers have gained a few trophies or qualified for Europe, he has completely rebuilt Bolton from scratch, a small club who has the best set-up in the country in terms of diet, fitness, coaching and modern facilities and from what I hear their Academy is about 2 years off coming into the same category. Bolton should be set up long after he has gone providing who ever comes in doesn't change too much off the pitch.

 

Some of his methods are groundbreaking and totally out of the box. England hired the wrong man and so did we.

 

Sadly I doubt he'd come here as he and FS don't get on apparently.

[merlin]

Lets just see if you still bring this up in a year's time- I will be VERY interested to see who sticks their head above the parapet then ; O'Neill has had virtually NO money to spend yet, but he will have in summer.

 

This is not the time to judge - running a club is a marathon, not a sprint and it takes at least 1-2 years to build a decent side. O'Neill went into Villa very late in the close season, with no time to make a full stab at his own signings. If he is STILL below us at the end of NEXT season, maybe you have a point - and as for Roeder, lets wait until this season is over before making any lionising claims for him.In my opinion, Pearson has been the reason for our recent change in fortune.

[merlin]

He is, but not by any big distance and I bet Roeder would succeed in Scotland, just look at Strachan. Roeder is a better coach, albeit because O'Neill isn't a coach or doesn't coach. Big Sam pisses all over O'Neill though tbh and I can't believe some of the reactions whenever his name has been touted, yet tons of people were creaming themselves at the prospect of O'Neill in the summer.

 

Agree. I also think that those who slate Bolton for the type of football they play wouldn't give a toss what Newcastle played like if they were winning. Not that I think Bolton are so bad anyway because I don't. Allardyce may also be a different manager if he had bigger resources.

 

By far the biggest factor for me is the fact that he is a stayer, he's been there for years, and improved them and kept improving them.

Put against the fact that he can man-manage players, there are many players at Bolton who have been around and they respond to Allardyce, nobody wants to leave Bolton. Gary Speed has said that he is a manager who players listen to when he speaks.

 

This is massively important for a club like Newcastle, it is huge. It makes me even more convinced that Allardyce would have been the man for us. Having said that, I am prepared to back Roeder which is something I never felt about Souness and Gullit too in fact, personally.

 

 

 

Agree with most of what you say, but the title of this thread is a comparison between Roeder & O'Neill, not Roeder/O'Neill & Allardyce.

[The Bonk]

Stupid thread, tbh.

 

Then why add to it, tbh. 

 

It needed to be said.

 

Fair enough. 

[Guest Zenith]

Hindsighttastic.

[Geordie Boot Boy]

I rate Big Sam highly and for me he is on a par with Mourinho and Benitez but lacks their experience.

 

You're entitled to your opinion and everything.  You're just wrong. 

 

He's been a manager longer than Mourinho and has achieved nowhere near the same success. 

 

In five years time, he will have been a manager as long as Benitez has now.  I would bet big that he will have achieved nowhere near the same success in his career at that point than Benitez right now.

 

There is a reason that they are at big clubs that expect to win things and he has stayed at tiny Bolton for 8 years.

[Ally]

Sheffield United have won more games than Villa this season, fact.

[Guest alex]

I rate Big Sam highly and for me he is on a par with Mourinho and Benitez but lacks their experience.

 

You're entitled to your opinion and everything.  You're just wrong. 

 

He's been a manager longer than Mourinho and has achieved nowhere near the same success. 

 

In five years time, he will have been a manager as long as Benitez has now.  I would bet big that he will have achieved nowhere near the same success in his career at that point than Benitez right now.

 

There is a reason that they are at big clubs that expect to win things and he has stayed at tiny Bolton for 8 years.

Might make that HTT quote my sig tbh 

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

 

I rate Big Sam highly and for me he is on a par with Mourinho and Benitez but lacks their experience.

 

http://www.2trak.com/christonamoped.jpg

[Tisd09]

Roeder will never be the manager O'neil is,he took villa from a relegation threatend side and managed  to create a  great team who will cause anyone trouble,he didnt even spent alot in doing so,and he is slowly starting to use the teams  youth team to create bright stars for that future such as Agbonlahor and Osbourne,all that in half a season

 

Roeder meanwhile..

 

Are you sure that they are a great team?

 

They have improved alot and given that its the same squad bar two players you must give props to O'Neill but he is way short of a great team!

 

Meanhile you could say Roeder has helped develop our younsters, okay he was forced to play these boys but Huntington and Edgar look good. You could also say that O'Neill was forced to use these youngsters given that he has a shite team to work with.

 

With all that said I would still swap Roeder for O'Niell!

[Guest Knightrider]

I rate Big Sam highly and for me he is on a par with Mourinho and Benitez but lacks their experience.

 

You're entitled to your opinion and everything.  You're just wrong. 

 

He's been a manager longer than Mourinho and has achieved nowhere near the same success. 

 

In five years time, he will have been a manager as long as Benitez has now.  I would bet big that he will have achieved nowhere near the same success in his career at that point than Benitez right now.

 

There is a reason that they are at big clubs that expect to win things and he has stayed at tiny Bolton for 8 years.

 

For me Big Sam is up there with Mourinho and Benitez when it comes to man management, tactics, motivation, team preparation, organisation etc. Put Big Sam in charge of Liverpool and I'm sure he would finish in the top 4 a few times, likewise put him in charge of Chelsea and I'm sure he'd pick up a trophy or two. Those two managers are top managers of course and rightly ahead of Big Sam but he hasn't quite had the opportunities they have had and I doubt he will ever do so because in this country its all about that CV and what you have won. Like I said while other managers have qualified for Europe and won a few titles (O'Neill) for example, Big Sam has built a club from scratch and that is far more impressive and a better indication of a manager's abilities. And he's done all that on a budget of zero (prio to Anelka's signing his spending to sales ratio was zero +).

 

I stand by my opinion, he has the potential to be a world-class manager - he just needs that right opportunity like.... the England job, or the Newcastle job to gain the type of experience and level of success others have had. Individual skill set wise however, he has it all and is up there with the Mourinhos and Rafas.

 

Or he could go to the SPL, win a shit load and be hailed as the best thing since sliced bread....

[Delima]

He is, but not by any big distance and I bet Roeder would succeed in Scotland, just look at Strachan. Roeder is a better coach, albeit because O'Neill isn't a coach or doesn't coach. Big Sam pisses all over O'Neill though tbh and I can't believe some of the reactions whenever his name has been touted, yet tons of people were creaming themselves at the prospect of O'Neill in the summer.

 

Roeder is a better coach? Why? On what basis do you reach this conclusion? Do you honestly believe than O'Neill is not involved in coaching? He might not coach first hand anymore because he has bigger priority in managing the club. But the coach he has MUST coach the players in the way heendorses. In other words if O'Neill were to be a coach he would coach in the same way but perhaps with better results, due to his motivation skills etc.

 

Saying Roeder is a better coach than O'Neill is just like saying Roeder is a better coach than Benitez, Ferguson, Mourinho etc because they are not coaches!

 

I agree with you that Big Sam is better than Martin O'Neill, but I disagree with you that Roeder might be a success in Scotland. Strachan has an OK track record in Coventry and decent track record in Southampton, spending very little but building a resilient squad. You can't put Roeder in the same bracket as Strachan, just like you can't put Roeder in the same bracket as Le Guen, even though Le Guen struggles in Scotland.

[Guest alex]

I rate Big Sam highly and for me he is on a par with Mourinho and Benitez but lacks their experience.

 

You're entitled to your opinion and everything.  You're just wrong. 

 

He's been a manager longer than Mourinho and has achieved nowhere near the same success. 

 

In five years time, he will have been a manager as long as Benitez has now.  I would bet big that he will have achieved nowhere near the same success in his career at that point than Benitez right now.

 

There is a reason that they are at big clubs that expect to win things and he has stayed at tiny Bolton for 8 years.

 

For me Big Sam is up there with Mourinho and Benitez when it comes to man management, tactics, motivation, team preparation, organisation etc. Put Big Sam in charge of Liverpool and I'm sure he would finish in the top 4 a few times, likewise put him in charge of Chelsea and I'm sure he'd pick up a trophy or two. Those two managers are top managers of course and rightly ahead of Big Sam but he hasn't quite had the opportunities they have had and I doubt he will ever do so because in this country its all about that CV and what you have won. Like I said while other managers have qualified for Europe and won a few titles (O'Neill) for example, Big Sam has built a club from scratch and that is far more impressive and a better indication of a manager's abilities. And he's done all that on a budget of zero (prio to Anelka's signing his spending to sales ratio was zero +).

 

I stand by my opinion, he has the potential to be a world-class manager - he just needs that right opportunity like.... the England job, or the Newcastle job to gain the type of experience and level of success others have had. Individual skill set wise however, he has it all and is up there with the Mourinhos and Rafas.

 

Or he could go to the SPL, win a shit load and be hailed as the best thing since sliced bread....

Basically that puts Big Sam on a par with Alan Curbishley. Using your method of judgement. The rest is pure guesswork, i.e. what Sam Allardyce could do, given the chance. I think Allardyce is a good manager but I think to say he pisses all over O'Neill is bollocks, given O'Neill has done well at every club he's been to (at every level). Not sure how well Roeder would do in Scotland either, more guesswork but I'm not sure he'd have the scouting contacts to do well there (and given Scottish talent is so thin on the ground that's crucial).

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

Hindsighttastic.

 

unless of course you posted to the negatory when this post was made  :roll: