Europe looks for secret of English success

[Thespence]

A nice read.

 

Another season, another whitewash. Or, at least, a whitewash with a big red cross of St George in it and some red and yellow representing Catalonia floating dangerously around the edges.

 

Europe tipped its collective hat to the Barclays Premier League yesterday after, for the third consecutive year, three English clubs reached the Champions League semi-finals. The final will have at least one English participant for the fifth successive season. This feat is a once-in-a-decade phenomenon that seems to coincide with a period of unquestioned dominance. The last league to do it was Serie A, when seven Italian clubs reached the final between 1992 and 1998. Before that, English sides reached six consecutive finals between 1977 and 1982, Dutch clubs managed it for five years between 1968 and 1973, and Spanish sides reached the final for seven consecutive seasons, from 1956 to 1962.

 

It is hard to question this kind of dominance, unthinkable to chalk it up to freak results. The Premier League is clearly ahead, at least in terms of depth, and money has a lot to do with it. But it is not the only thing that matters, Eduardo Suárez suggested in El Mundo, the Spanish newspaper. “The origins of the supremacy lie with their economic means, but that alone cannot explain everything,” he wrote. “The culture and mentality of the clubs also matter, as does planning. There is more patience in England than in Spain, less urgency about getting instant results. Managers like [sir Alex] Ferguson, [Rafael] Benítez and [Arsene] Wenger would not have survived the pressure to win instantly that afflicts the big Spanish clubs.”

 

The “money” argument was also dispelled to some degree in the French press. Writing in L’Equipe, Ángel Marcos, the former Nantes striker turned pundit, pointed out the success of Villarreal and Porto, clubs with relatively modest means, in reaching the quarter-finals. Marcos maintained that the annual budgets of Villarreal and Porto — £65 million respectively — are not out of line with those of the bigger French clubs such as Lyons (£128 million), Marseilles (£75 million) and Bordeaux (£57 million). And yet, he wrote, Villarreal and Porto achieved some measure of success, whereas the French clubs have not.

 

Gianluca Vialli, the former Chelsea manager, now a pundit on Sky Italia, pointed out the differences among the English clubs. “Manchester United and Chelsea may have great financial means, but Arsenal do not, at least not relative to the competition,” he said. “So you can’t say it’s just about money. Arsenal are a well-run club who have chosen to go with youth and have been rewarded. This kind of courage, this willingness to give the kids a chance if they’re good enough, is something Italian clubs might want to consider as well. Young players bring enthusiasm and workrate.”

 

The most acerbic commentary towards the shortcomings of continental clubs perhaps can be found in Corriere della Sera, the Milan daily, where Alberto Costa wrote: “The situation [with no Italian clubs involved at this stage] is embarrassing but perhaps we can learn something watching on TV from home. It’s not just that their clubs play better football, they also run more and work harder. Because we in Italy refuse to believe that anyone trains better than we do, we have to ask ourselves just why Wayne Rooney can chase full backs up and down the pitch whereas [Zlatan] Ibrahimovic stands still, hands on hips. Maybe it’s a question of attitude.”

 

Barcelona are the only continental club left to challenge England’s hegemony and it is perhaps not surprising that Sport, the Catalan daily, offers up a headline of “Barcelona v Premier” while proudly noting that the English bookmakers make Pep Guardiola’s side favourites to lift the European Cup in Rome on May 27.

 

Indeed, throughout Europe, there were only two real arguments against English top-flight football. The first is a familiar one: the lack of Englishmen. La Gazzetta dello Sport, the Italian daily, notes that when Fabio Capello watched Chelsea v Liverpool at Stamford Bridge on Tuesday, he would have seen only three players out of 22 eligible to play for England and one of them, Jamie Carragher, has retired from international football.

 

The other perceived flaw is the goalkeepers. “Petr Cech and Pepe Reina certainly did not enjoy the 4-4 at Stamford Bridge,” wrote Sport as it noted that both goalkeepers committed serious blunders along the way. The theme is echoed elsewhere, with some pointing out that the goalkeepers of the other three semi-finalists are either old (Edwin van der Sar. of Manchester United. turns 39 this year), injured (Manuel Almunia, of Arsenal) or mediocre (in an era of cheap caps, Víctor Valdés, of Barcelona, still does not have an appearance for Spain under his belt). Perhaps a top-notch goalkeeper is not as essential as many believed.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/european_football/article6108213.ece

[Thespence]

spend enough money for the best players around and you get a challenging team.

 

Like Bayern & Real Madrid?

 

You must have also overlooked the bit your hero gets a mention:

 

The most acerbic commentary towards the shortcomings of continental clubs perhaps can be found in Corriere della Sera, the Milan daily, where Alberto Costa wrote: “The situation [with no Italian clubs involved at this stage] is embarrassing but perhaps we can learn something watching on TV from home. It’s not just that their clubs play better football, they also run more and work harder. Because we in Italy refuse to believe that anyone trains better than we do, we have to ask ourselves just why Wayne Rooney can chase full backs up and down the pitch whereas [Zlatan] Ibrahimovic stands still, hands on hips. Maybe it’s a question of attitude.”

[Parky]

The football culture of the top PL sides are now ahead of the best of Europe, with Barca the only side that can compete.

[madras]

spend enough money for the best players around and you get a challenging team.

 

Like Bayern & Real Madrid?

 

You must have also overlooked the bit your hero gets a mention:

 

The most acerbic commentary towards the shortcomings of continental clubs perhaps can be found in Corriere della Sera, the Milan daily, where Alberto Costa wrote: “The situation [with no Italian clubs involved at this stage] is embarrassing but perhaps we can learn something watching on TV from home. It’s not just that their clubs play better football, they also run more and work harder. Because we in Italy refuse to believe that anyone trains better than we do, we have to ask ourselves just why Wayne Rooney can chase full backs up and down the pitch whereas [Zlatan] Ibrahimovic stands still, hands on hips. Maybe it’s a question of attitude.”

check bayerns wage beill up against man utd's.

 

why do people only think transfer fee and forget the wages which are often equal to if not greater than the fee.

[Thespence]

spend enough money for the best players around and you get a challenging team.

 

Like Bayern & Real Madrid?

 

You must have also overlooked the bit your hero gets a mention:

 

The most acerbic commentary towards the shortcomings of continental clubs perhaps can be found in Corriere della Sera, the Milan daily, where Alberto Costa wrote: “The situation [with no Italian clubs involved at this stage] is embarrassing but perhaps we can learn something watching on TV from home. It’s not just that their clubs play better football, they also run more and work harder. Because we in Italy refuse to believe that anyone trains better than we do, we have to ask ourselves just why Wayne Rooney can chase full backs up and down the pitch whereas [Zlatan] Ibrahimovic stands still, hands on hips. Maybe it’s a question of attitude.”

check bayerns wage beill up against man utd's.

 

why do people only think transfer fee and forget the wages which are often equal to if not greater than the fee.

 

By all means if you send me a link.

 

Bayern are hardly Villarreal

[madras]

spend enough money for the best players around and you get a challenging team.

 

Like Bayern & Real Madrid?

 

You must have also overlooked the bit your hero gets a mention:

 

The most acerbic commentary towards the shortcomings of continental clubs perhaps can be found in Corriere della Sera, the Milan daily, where Alberto Costa wrote: “The situation [with no Italian clubs involved at this stage] is embarrassing but perhaps we can learn something watching on TV from home. It’s not just that their clubs play better football, they also run more and work harder. Because we in Italy refuse to believe that anyone trains better than we do, we have to ask ourselves just why Wayne Rooney can chase full backs up and down the pitch whereas [Zlatan] Ibrahimovic stands still, hands on hips. Maybe it’s a question of attitude.”

check bayerns wage beill up against man utd's.

 

why do people only think transfer fee and forget the wages which are often equal to if not greater than the fee.

 

By all means if you send me a link.

 

Bayern are hardly Villarreal

and they are hardly man utd.

[Mr. Snrub]

British journalists tend to be very ignorant when it comes to football outside the Premiership.

[Thespence]

spend enough money for the best players around and you get a challenging team.

 

Like Bayern & Real Madrid?

 

You must have also overlooked the bit your hero gets a mention:

 

The most acerbic commentary towards the shortcomings of continental clubs perhaps can be found in Corriere della Sera, the Milan daily, where Alberto Costa wrote: “The situation [with no Italian clubs involved at this stage] is embarrassing but perhaps we can learn something watching on TV from home. It’s not just that their clubs play better football, they also run more and work harder. Because we in Italy refuse to believe that anyone trains better than we do, we have to ask ourselves just why Wayne Rooney can chase full backs up and down the pitch whereas [Zlatan] Ibrahimovic stands still, hands on hips. Maybe it’s a question of attitude.”

check bayerns wage beill up against man utd's.

 

why do people only think transfer fee and forget the wages which are often equal to if not greater than the fee.

 

By all means if you send me a link.

 

Bayern are hardly Villarreal

and they are hardly man utd.

 

Could you not find a link?

 

Be careful though after the “The Secret Payroll of Bayern” rumpus.

[Thespence]

British journalists tend to be very ignorant when it comes to football outside the Premiership.

 

Yeah that is why the article is decent as it is wrote by a Italian with input from media sources from around Europe.

[Mr. Snrub]

Thought it was a boring read personally, just really highlights the obvious.

[Thespence]

Thought it was a boring read personally, just really highlights the obvious.

 

You didn't read it the first time though, just a quick glance & then you posted some dribble about British journalists. You now must admit it highlights the obvious from maybe a not so British point of view.

 

[madras]

spend enough money for the best players around and you get a challenging team.

 

Like Bayern & Real Madrid?

 

You must have also overlooked the bit your hero gets a mention:

 

The most acerbic commentary towards the shortcomings of continental clubs perhaps can be found in Corriere della Sera, the Milan daily, where Alberto Costa wrote: “The situation [with no Italian clubs involved at this stage] is embarrassing but perhaps we can learn something watching on TV from home. It’s not just that their clubs play better football, they also run more and work harder. Because we in Italy refuse to believe that anyone trains better than we do, we have to ask ourselves just why Wayne Rooney can chase full backs up and down the pitch whereas [Zlatan] Ibrahimovic stands still, hands on hips. Maybe it’s a question of attitude.”

check bayerns wage beill up against man utd's.

 

why do people only think transfer fee and forget the wages which are often equal to if not greater than the fee.

 

By all means if you send me a link.

 

Bayern are hardly Villarreal

and they are hardly man utd.

 

Could you not find a link?

 

Be careful though after the “The Secret Payroll of Bayern” rumpus.

the closest i could find were these.

 

http://www.tribalfootball.com/man-utd-wage-bill-jumps-%C2%A3121m-237755

 

http://bundesliga.theoffside.com/teams/transfer-fees-from-bayern-via-hoffenheim-to-cottbus.html

 

there is a diecrepency that they are one year apart and that at the time the munich one was done the euro was worth considerably more to the pound.

 

converting man utds 121mill into todays euro gives 136.5mill euro.

 

alsoi to add in that in germany there is a huge drop off after bayern, where as i don't think man utd are the top spenders on wages in england.

[Thespence]

Have not had time to read your post but will on my return. It is very hard to try & find stuff like this about Bayern.........laters.

[madras]

The football culture of the top PL sides are now ahead of the best of Europe, with Barca the only side that can compete.

real madrad can compete if they start trying to build a team instead of just assembling star players and hoping it comes together.

[madras]

my apologies to other bayern's out there.

 

a bit like a german coming on here and saying united (and meaning the manchester one).

 

shouldn't it be either bavaria munich or bayern munchen anyway ?

[Swissmag]

my apologies to other bayern's out there.

 

a bit like a german coming on here and saying united (and meaning the manchester one).

 

shouldn't it be either bavaria munich or bayern munchen anyway ?

 

There aren't any other "Bayerns" - it is just a region of the Country with Munich as its Capitol. Don't mix it up with Bayer (... Leverkusen / Bayer is their sponsor and just a German brand for Chemicals)! There is only one Bayern (the one that I dislike that much...) :-)

[johnnypd]

The football culture of the top PL sides are now ahead of the best of Europe, with Barca the only side that can compete.

real madrad can compete if they start trying to build a team instead of just assembling star players and hoping it comes together.

 

the mix of more patience and centralised management works in the premiership's favour. when you have one person doing transfers, another picking the side and interference from a host of others, like at many continental clubs (or happened here under KK), it is asking for trouble. when you get it right like at sevilla it works well but there's a reason Benitez came to the premiership and it's because of what he had to go through at Valencia "i asked for a sofa and they bought me a lamp."

[Shearergol]

The football culture of the top PL sides are now ahead of the best of Europe, with Barca the only side that can compete.

real madrad can compete if they start trying to build a team instead of just assembling star players and hoping it comes together.

 

the mix of more patience and centralised management works in the premiership's favour. when you have one person doing transfers, another picking the side and interference from a host of others, like at many continental clubs (or happened here under KK), it is asking for trouble. when you get it right like at sevilla it works well but there's a reason Benitez came to the premiership and it's because of what he had to go through at Valencia "i asked for a sofa and they bought me a lamp."

 

Now he buys hundreds of sofas. Cheque-book manager.

 

Sorry for going off topic

[Parky]

The football culture of the top PL sides are now ahead of the best of Europe, with Barca the only side that can compete.

real madrad can compete if they start trying to build a team instead of just assembling star players and hoping it comes together.

 

the mix of more patience and centralised management works in the premiership's favour. when you have one person doing transfers, another picking the side and interference from a host of others, like at many continental clubs (or happened here under KK), it is asking for trouble. when you get it right like at sevilla it works well but there's a reason Benitez came to the premiership and it's because of what he had to go through at Valencia "i asked for a sofa and they bought me a lamp."

 

Now he buys hundreds of sofas. Cheque-book manager.

 

Sorry for going off topic

 

Don't get me started innit. 

[Guest]

I think the fact that Arsenal, Liverpool & Man Utd have 3 of the longest serving managers at the top level, and don't chop and change the manager as soon as they have a bad season like most top European clubs, therefore having more continuity  is a major factor too.

[johnnypd]

Man Utd could do with a better set of midfielders though. Carrick is probably the only top-class midfielder they have now that Scholes is a shadow of what he once was and Hargreaves permanently injured, Fletcher, Anderson, O'Shea etc aren't in the same class as Essien, Alonso, Mikel, Mascherano, Gerrard, Lampard, Fabregas. they shouldve gone in for mascherano when liverpool did tbh.

[dcmk]

I think the lack of offensive leaders on the midfield is a part of the problem.

The modern attacking midfielder ala Lampard, Gerrard, Xavi, Ronaldo (half striker btw) etc etc

 

I will use Inter as an perfect example, and why they cant mess with european top clubs, its pure and simple the lack of providing the right passes and moves.

You could see in the games against Manchester that they had noone to challange the speed and creative midfield of Manu.

 

In Serie A you dont need that speed to that degree, as the tempo is a bit lower and you can walk over teams with tactics and power, in europe you need someone to create.

 

In another hand i must say that i thought Inter gave Manu a fight this year, with Zlatans header going in and 1-1 i think manu could have fallen apart, they had their chances, but Manu deserved to go through if you looked on both games.

 

For a clash between the English and Italian champions it was pretty one sided, Man Utd could of been out of sight at the San Siro by the end of  the first half.  I'm really unsurprised that it shocked alot of people in Italy.

[madras]

i don't think the italians have caught up from a few years back when juve were relegated and they had a couple of clubs banned from europe (didn't they or was it a dream ?)

[Parky]

i don't think the italians have caught up from a few years back when juve were relegated and they had a couple of clubs banned from europe (didn't they or was it a dream ?)

 

Plus the real lack of cash (relatively) compared to the PL big boys. Half these Serie A clubs were nearly bankrupt a few years ago iirc.

[Frazzle]

i don't think the italians have caught up from a few years back when juve were relegated and they had a couple of clubs banned from europe (didn't they or was it a dream ?)

 

Plus the real lack of cash (relatively) compared to the PL big boys. Half these Serie A clubs were nearly bankrupt a few years ago iirc.

 

Could all change in a few seasons.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/7903417.stm

 

That is one of the reasons Juve were linked with Messi ( ) a few months ago.

 

http://www.tuttosport.com/calcio/serie_a/juventus/calciomercato/2009/01/02-13714/Messi+alla+Juve,+un+sogno+possibile