Barnes attacks culture of racism that has slammed door on a 'lost generation'

[NG32]

Ian Herbert, The Independent

 

18/Aug/09

 

John Barnes was passed over for numerous managerial jobs in Britain before the Tranmere chairman, Peter Johnson, hired him

John Barnes, the footballer who braved the torrent of abuse which epitomised Britain's racial intolerance of black players in the 1980s, has declared that a generation of black managers is being lost to the sport because of a belief that they lack the intellectual ability of their white counterparts.

 

Barnes, who comes face to face with one of only two other black managers, Paul Ince, when his Tranmere Rovers side face Ince's MK Dons tonight, has struggled for nine years to regain a position in British management after his brief and ultimately unsuccessful spell at Celtic ended in 2000. He has put that struggle down to the sport's failure to give a black manager the same second chance as a white one. Though Ince found work again, seven months after his brief Blackburn tenure ended, he has reverted to the League One side which he left for the top flight.

 

"Until we are considered to be intellectually equal, we will never be equal," Barnes said. "In the 1970s you didn't have black goalkeepers or centre-halves – or not many. If you were a black player you had to play on the wing where you're fast and didn't have to think too much. These are all the misconceptions people had.

 

 

"Then all those myths were dispelled and you had players like [Portsmouth's] David James and Sol Campbell coming through and this whole stereotype about black players playing in certain position or not being very good in the winter has slowly been dispelled. Now you have black coaches in the academies but until you say 'this man has the same intellectual ability whether he is black or he is white' there is still that same question mark.

 

"In the '70s there was a generation of black goalkeepers and centre-halves lost to the game of football. The 1990s and the early 21st century, to 2020, will be the decade when potential black managers will be lost to the game of football. So when Theo Walcott is a 45-year-old black manager he will speak to black players who will say, 'We can't believe you have to go through that, we don't have to go through that.' My contemporaries and I are the management equivalent of those black centre halves."

 

Barnes (left), who joined Liverpool from Watford in 1987, endured racist abuse as a player, once famously backheeling a banana that had been thrown at him. He was unwilling to be interviewed for Out of his Skin, the John Barnes Phenomenon, Dave Hill's seminal book, published in 1989, which explored his treatment. But while his ability on the field of play – he helped Liverpool to their last league title 20 seasons ago – gave Barnes the last word against those who heaped vitriol upon him, a dozen attempts to get jobs in management since Celtic sacked him (after the club's Scottish Cup defeat by Inverness Caledonian Thistle) have failed to elicit a single interview and none of the Premier League clubs he has approached, supported by recommendations from Graham Taylor, Sir Bobby Robson and Terry Venables, have responded to him. White managers would have had been given another chance, Barnes said.

 

"There's nothing you can do because you can't tell a chairman to give you a job," said the former England international, who was hired by Tranmere, having managed his native Jamaican national side through a run of 11 games unbeaten.

 

Barnes' desire to return to management at any professional level has seen him take up the reins at the Birkenhead club. Tranmere have been put up for sale by their owner, Peter Johnson, and have seen five of last season's regular first XI leave the club as the wage bill has been slashed by a third.

 

League Two Macclesfield Town's Keith Alexander is the only other black manager in the Football League. The former Luton Town player Ricky Hill was named their manager in July 2000 but sacked 11 months later and has never returned to British management. Keith Curle lasted five years between Mansfield, Town, Chester City and Torquay United and is now a coach at Crystal Palace.

 

 

It has nothing to do with being a shit manager John? Its cos you is black?

[Fenham Mag]

Paul Ince was given a chance and tunred out to be shit . What nonsence from JB.

[stalker]

I don't know if it is, given the number of black footballers over the last 20 years there has been incredibly few black managers. I don't know if it's institutional racism or not but they are certainly under represented at managerial level

[Skeletor]

I don't know what he's talking about. Phil Brown is showing everyone what a world class black manager can do.

[Fatwax]

Colour has nothing to do with managerial ability, he's right there.. but I fail to see his point. I can't imagine any league club in the UK consider turning down a manager because of his race and I can't think of any situations where this has happened. It's not like Barnes has never got an opportunity to manage at a decent level.

[James]

No the stats do show that not only are there less black managers in the game, but less sacked black managers manage to find another management job in the UK.

 

Right now, it is only really those top players like Gullit, Barnes, and Ince all of whom were one of the best in their position in the world during their prime that get the management look in.

 

Like lower down Noel Blake and Liam Rosenior got a go, but they say that the best managers aren't the best players, so where are these average black players that go on to get considered for the top jobs?

[Keefaz]

I don't know if it is, given the number of black footballers over the last 20 years there has been incredibly few black managers. I don't know if it's institutional racism or not but they are certainly under represented at managerial level

 

Aye. Logically, there should be a hell of a lot more black coaches than there are currently. But if it is racism then where is the problem? At board level?

 

I'd like to know how many black coaches go do their badges.

[ToonTastic]

Is it not more a case of black footballers not going on to become managers ? I know a few are now doing coaching like Les Ferdinand but not sure how many are becoming managers. It is possible to be a Premier League manager and be black, Ruud Gillit although incompetent at us won Chelsea's first trophy for twenty odd years when he was manager there, and like has already been said Paul Ince was given a top flight job. The problem isn't the colour of their skin it's their ability as a manager. Paul Ince was given a top job far to early and proved that by his ability at Blackburn.

[Fatwax]

If a black ex-player/coach or whatever went and got his UEFA pro badge or whatever it is and had some sort of track record at a lower club or in coaching then I very much doubt he'd get turned down for the job. Ince is an example of this.

[James]

Is it not more a case of black footballers not going on to become managers ? I know a few are now doing coaching like Les Ferdinand but not sure how many are becoming managers. It is possible to be a Premier League manager and be black, Ruud Gillit although incompetent at us won Chelsea's first trophy for twenty odd years when he was manager there, and like has already been said Paul Ince was given a top flight job. The problem isn't the colour of their skin it's their ability as a manager. Paul Ince was given a top job far to early and proved that by his ability at Blackburn.

 

Ince and Barnes are a complete red herring though because they have been able to use their playing career to open doors. Where is the black David Moyes for example?

[Keefaz]

If Barnes is serious about this, he should find out where the problem is. It's likely to be quite a complex issue and not just as simple as, "Oh, chairmen are racist."

[ToonTastic]

But John Barnes appears to be saying he hasn't been given the chance to manager again due to the colour of his skin. It's not that though it's the fact he showed himself up to be a not very good manager at the top level.

[Fatwax]

Is it not more a case of black footballers not going on to become managers ? I know a few are now doing coaching like Les Ferdinand but not sure how many are becoming managers. It is possible to be a Premier League manager and be black, Ruud Gillit although incompetent at us won Chelsea's first trophy for twenty odd years when he was manager there, and like has already been said Paul Ince was given a top flight job. The problem isn't the colour of their skin it's their ability as a manager. Paul Ince was given a top job far to early and proved that by his ability at Blackburn.

 

Ince and Barnes are a complete red herring though because they have been able to use their playing career to open doors. Where is the black David Moyes for example?

 

I think that it's more coincidence than anything else. It's like saying that foreign leagues hate the English because there's a lack of English players in La Liga or Serie A.

[James]

If Barnes is serious about this, he should find out where the problem is. It's likely to be quite a complex issue and not just as simple as, "Oh, chairmen are racist."

 

Yeah, I can't say its anything to do with racism, or whether there is some other issue going on here, but I think those saying that Ince and Barnes would get better jobs if they were any good are completely missing the point.

[ToonTastic]

Is it not more a case of black footballers not going on to become managers ? I know a few are now doing coaching like Les Ferdinand but not sure how many are becoming managers. It is possible to be a Premier League manager and be black, Ruud Gillit although incompetent at us won Chelsea's first trophy for twenty odd years when he was manager there, and like has already been said Paul Ince was given a top flight job. The problem isn't the colour of their skin it's their ability as a manager. Paul Ince was given a top job far to early and proved that by his ability at Blackburn.

 

Ince and Barnes are a complete red herring though because they have been able to use their playing career to open doors. Where is the black David Moyes for example?

 

I've had a think about the David Moyes example, could Jean Tigana be the David Moyes example ?

[Keefaz]

If Barnes is serious about this, he should find out where the problem is. It's likely to be quite a complex issue and not just as simple as, "Oh, chairmen are racist."

 

Yeah, I can't say its anything to do with racism, or whether there is some other issue going on here, but I think those saying that Ince and Barnes would get better jobs if they were any good are completely missing the point.

 

Aye, ignore Barnes and Ince, ffs. The point is there ought to be plenty more black coaches than there are: AT ALL LEVELS.

[Guest]

Is it not more a case of black footballers not going on to become managers ? I know a few are now doing coaching like Les Ferdinand but not sure how many are becoming managers. It is possible to be a Premier League manager and be black, Ruud Gillit although incompetent at us won Chelsea's first trophy for twenty odd years when he was manager there, and like has already been said Paul Ince was given a top flight job. The problem isn't the colour of their skin it's their ability as a manager. Paul Ince was given a top job far to early and proved that by his ability at Blackburn.

 

Ince and Barnes are a complete red herring though because they have been able to use their playing career to open doors. Where is the black David Moyes for example?

 

I've had a think about the David Moyes example, could Jean Tigana be the David Moyes example ?

 

Tigana was a helluva footballer though apparently.

[thomas]

If Barnes is serious about this, he should find out where the problem is. It's likely to be quite a complex issue and not just as simple as, "Oh, chairmen are racist."

 

Yeah, I can't say its anything to do with racism, or whether there is some other issue going on here, but I think those saying that Ince and Barnes would get better jobs if they were any good are completely missing the point.

 

Aye, ignore Barnes and Ince, ffs. The point is there ought to be plenty more black coaches than there are: AT ALL LEVELS.

Why?

[Keefaz]

If Barnes is serious about this, he should find out where the problem is. It's likely to be quite a complex issue and not just as simple as, "Oh, chairmen are racist."

 

Yeah, I can't say its anything to do with racism, or whether there is some other issue going on here, but I think those saying that Ince and Barnes would get better jobs if they were any good are completely missing the point.

 

Aye, ignore Barnes and Ince, ffs. The point is there ought to be plenty more black coaches than there are: AT ALL LEVELS.

Why?

 

I mean, simply statistically speaking. Considering the number of black players there are.

[James]

Is it not more a case of black footballers not going on to become managers ? I know a few are now doing coaching like Les Ferdinand but not sure how many are becoming managers. It is possible to be a Premier League manager and be black, Ruud Gillit although incompetent at us won Chelsea's first trophy for twenty odd years when he was manager there, and like has already been said Paul Ince was given a top flight job. The problem isn't the colour of their skin it's their ability as a manager. Paul Ince was given a top job far to early and proved that by his ability at Blackburn.

 

Ince and Barnes are a complete red herring though because they have been able to use their playing career to open doors. Where is the black David Moyes for example?

 

I've had a think about the David Moyes example, could Jean Tigana be the David Moyes example ?

 

Established in France before he got the Fulham job. And he played 52 times for France making him very much a 'name'

[ToonTastic]

Is it not more a case of black footballers not going on to become managers ? I know a few are now doing coaching like Les Ferdinand but not sure how many are becoming managers. It is possible to be a Premier League manager and be black, Ruud Gillit although incompetent at us won Chelsea's first trophy for twenty odd years when he was manager there, and like has already been said Paul Ince was given a top flight job. The problem isn't the colour of their skin it's their ability as a manager. Paul Ince was given a top job far to early and proved that by his ability at Blackburn.

 

Ince and Barnes are a complete red herring though because they have been able to use their playing career to open doors. Where is the black David Moyes for example?

 

I've had a think about the David Moyes example, could Jean Tigana be the David Moyes example ?

 

Tigana was a helluva footballer though apparently.

 

Hardly used his playing career to open doors over here though.

[Guest]

He took Monaco pretty far in Europe twice though didn't he? Not as if he has no proven record.

[James]

Is it not more a case of black footballers not going on to become managers ? I know a few are now doing coaching like Les Ferdinand but not sure how many are becoming managers. It is possible to be a Premier League manager and be black, Ruud Gillit although incompetent at us won Chelsea's first trophy for twenty odd years when he was manager there, and like has already been said Paul Ince was given a top flight job. The problem isn't the colour of their skin it's their ability as a manager. Paul Ince was given a top job far to early and proved that by his ability at Blackburn.

 

Ince and Barnes are a complete red herring though because they have been able to use their playing career to open doors. Where is the black David Moyes for example?

 

I've had a think about the David Moyes example, could Jean Tigana be the David Moyes example ?

 

Tigana was a helluva footballer though apparently.

 

Hardly used his playing career to open doors over here though.

 

The issue here is getting into the game. Not getting into another job when already established.

 

Although must remember too though that Fulham don't have the typical chairman, so I don't think we can look at Tigana as a counter argument.

[Keefaz]

Is it not more a case of black footballers not going on to become managers ? I know a few are now doing coaching like Les Ferdinand but not sure how many are becoming managers. It is possible to be a Premier League manager and be black, Ruud Gillit although incompetent at us won Chelsea's first trophy for twenty odd years when he was manager there, and like has already been said Paul Ince was given a top flight job. The problem isn't the colour of their skin it's their ability as a manager. Paul Ince was given a top job far to early and proved that by his ability at Blackburn.

 

Ince and Barnes are a complete red herring though because they have been able to use their playing career to open doors. Where is the black David Moyes for example?

 

I've had a think about the David Moyes example, could Jean Tigana be the David Moyes example ?

 

Tigana was a helluva footballer though apparently.

 

Hardly used his playing career to open doors over here though.

 

The issue here is getting into the game. Not getting into another job when already established.

 

Although must remember too though that Fulham don't have the typical chairman, so I don't think we can look at Tigana as a counter argument.

 

But you're talking about one man here. There should be dozens of black managers. A black David Moyes, a black Chris Coleman, a black Gareth Southgate, a black Aidy Boothroyd, etc.

[Guest Phil K]

Black managers have had managerial jobs, and TBH - hardly shone. A brief period of grace for Paul Ince maybe, and Barnes was awful himself.

There may well be a little racism in it, but it would be from the players not the clubs or fans - with their seeming reluctance to perform.

 

But you're talking about one man here. There should be dozens of black managers. A black David Moyes, a black Chris Coleman, a black Gareth Southgate, a black Aidy Boothroyd, etc.

 

But they've got to do it given the chance, and so far they haven't.

They can't do it the feminists way - "It's sexist if I'm judged on results"

TBF - theres been very few WANTING top be managers, and that won't help.