ponsaelius Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 I think the point Mattis is making is, despite recent form and US progress, it is still pretty much: Italy > USA Disagree. Italy have been going backwards for a while. There isn't a single US player that would get into the Italy starting XI. Donovan, at a massive push. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 Oh, ho'way. They've crumbled since then - big time. Too stubborn to embrace any change, even their current attempts are being forced upon them and its showing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 Playing for a country for a country which is passionate for its football over one that isn't any day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 Italy got some great players coming up from the youth systems btw, give a couple of years under Prandelli and things should be back to normal. who are the great players coming up from the youth system? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameritoon Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 I think he made a statement after not making the WC squad about how didn't regret it. Although, I'm sure there was part of him that realized with him we could've beat Ghana and won the CC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 Oh, ho'way. They've crumbled since then - big time. Too stubborn to embrace any change, even their current attempts are being forced upon them and its showing. Because of one poor world cup? They won it in 2006, and now in a transitional period, playing for Italy allows him to grow as a player, it's no surprise he chose Italy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameritoon Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 You can't deny Italy have been pretty shit since they won in 2006, and US fans are far more happy than Italians with the last cycle. I'm not saying we're better, and I can't even argue with Sewelly, no US player would get into the Italian eleven, if when they're being stubborn and leaving in older players who've seen at better days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 You can't deny Italy have been pretty s*** since they won in 2006, and US fans are far more happy than Italians with the last cycle. I'm not saying we're better, and I can't even argue with Sewelly, no US player would get into the Italian eleven, if when they're being stubborn and leaving in older players who've seen at better days. But they have totally different expectations. Just look at the 1-1 draw with England, I couldn't imagine Gazetta celebrating a draw with England. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameritoon Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 Definitely. I'm just pointing out, we've had more success lately, I hope everyone still knows Italy is the better footballing nation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 Oh, ho'way. They've crumbled since then - big time. Too stubborn to embrace any change, even their current attempts are being forced upon them and its showing. Because of one poor world cup? They won it in 2006, and now in a transitional period, playing for Italy allows him to grow as a player, it's no surprise he chose Italy. He's not even a stable figure in the Italy squad though, so how can he grow with them as a player? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 This may not be exactly what you're on about, but although Italy are nowhere near what they were, I'd still fancy them to not get beat more than twice if they played 10 games. The gap has certainly closed, like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 The fact he'd be one of the very best American players (ever), yet he's 'not even a stable figure in the Italy squad' surely negates your point about the US overtaking Italy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 The fact he'd be one of the very best American players (ever), yet he's 'not even a stable figure in the Italy squad' surely negates your point about the US overtaking Italy? Well, not really, not when squad politics is an issue with the Italy team, that has kept most young players out of the team until very recently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 The fact he'd be one of the very best American players (ever), yet he's 'not even a stable figure in the Italy squad' surely negates your point about the US overtaking Italy? Well, not really, not when squad politics is an issue with the Italy team, that has kept most young players out of the team until very recently. He's still not good enough to start though. Maybe after his form this season, but this is the first tim he's came close. He'd have 50 caps by now if he'd gone with USA from the beginning. That's the difference in the talent depth's for both nations. Sure, through contrasting management success USA have outperformed Italy over the last 2-3 years but the cold hard truth is that the US are still a long way behind. Look at their squad from the WC, they perform great as a team but the players are very limited. DeMerit (released by Watford) and Onyewu (5th choice at Milan atm) is there CB partnership, and this a position the US count as a position of relative strength. I'm sorry, there's just no comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 The fact he'd be one of the very best American players (ever), yet he's 'not even a stable figure in the Italy squad' surely negates your point about the US overtaking Italy? Well, not really, not when squad politics is an issue with the Italy team, that has kept most young players out of the team until very recently. He's still not good enough to start though. Maybe after his form this season, but this is the first tim he's came close. He'd have 50 caps by now if he'd gone with USA from the beginning. Well, half of that was my point to begin with - Rossi's regret. Which sort of trailed into a US v Italy discussion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 You were arguing that USA has more 'going for it' as a footballing country though, not whether Rossi made a bad decision regarding his own personal chances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 You were arguing that USA has more 'going for it' as a footballing country though, not whether Rossi made a bad decision regarding his own personal chances. I still believe Italy are going backwards while US are marching forwards. Guess only time will tell, though England are the benchmark for reputation > ability. So Italy won the WC in 2006, and did well in the 80s and early 90s, but the sea change to the national team is going to be too much for it. Just as the holding onto the Old Guard will have damaged them too. Yes, it won them 2006, but not looking forward and integrating new stars into the team is going to hurt them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 Prandelli will have them fit and firing for Poland/Ukraine. Balotelli/Cassano strikeforce could yield some lols. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 That's my concern; I can't see them being a team/unit as well as the US team is/can become. Though I suppose you can argue that at times the Italian Team hasn't always been the best team/unit at the best of times. Suppose that's why Trap and Co picked the 'Old Guard' all the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 You are aware that Rossi was not only picked against Romania but was made captain right? Right now he's in the selection radar but hasn't always been in the squad that's because his forms been questionable. However it picked up lately and he was rightly picked, I'd argue that being left out does the same thing it did to Carroll when he was dropped against City. Even by not always being selected it benefits him more than being guranteed a spot like Donovan is. The whole love-in for him I'd say has done him no favours whatsoever and it came across in the 2006 WC documentary where he said 'I could have made it in Germany if I'd wanted to.' He's had no one challenge him some players need that. US may be on the rise but the two are still miles apart. As for going backwards, I can't see it personally, there is huge potential coming through could you really see this team below getting beat by the USA? Buffon Santon Chielleni Bonnuci Criscito De Rossi Aqualani Balotelli Rossi Cassano Pazzini Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 The fact he'd be one of the very best American players (ever), yet he's 'not even a stable figure in the Italy squad' surely negates your point about the US overtaking Italy? Well, not really, not when squad politics is an issue with the Italy team, that has kept most young players out of the team until very recently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 Yes, but by the time 2012 and 2014 is around not one of those will be a 'young player' a standard you haven't actually defined and is a little wide of the mark considering Rossi and Balotelli have played recently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 Right. You've confused me. Your Journalistic skills have done their job of distracting me from the subject. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 Your coaching eye has deserted you if you think the US is on the rise and or that they are a better prospect internationally than Italy. I admit the politics you speak of existed once upon a time and that often it was age over talent sometimes but Prandelli isn't interested in that I'd argue the future is much brighter than that of some even Holland. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ObiChrisKenobi Posted December 25, 2010 Share Posted December 25, 2010 Ho'way, man, I've said twice already 'UNTIL VERY RECENTLY', I've said things have changed, but I think its going to be too late. He's trying to build and bond a whole unit of players together from beginning, he has no core to build around and add bits to. Team Chemistry and Cohesion is the most important part of a World Cup squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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