Keefaz Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Dont think enough credit has been given to Forest's performance. Yes there are clearly problems in our squad and we missed our centre backs and our strikers are young or loans and yes Lovenkrands isnt a winger. But Forest were very effective in attack and ultimately in defence. Oh, aye. And we were always going to struggle against their pace, but no one can tell me the team were giving 100% in that opening 45 minutes. Or, if they were giving 100%: in completely the wrong way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mantis Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Dont think enough credit has been given to Forest's performance. Yes there are clearly problems in our squad and we missed our centre backs and our strikers are young or loans and yes Lovenkrands isnt a winger. But Forest were very effective in attack and ultimately in defence. Any team would look good if everytime you picked the ball up the opposition stood off you until you got to their 18 yard box. Then when Newcastle get the ball they boot it 45 yards up field. Nice opposition if you can get it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I don't mind Forest looking good and giving them credit for it, it's us looking shite and playing woeful football that I have a problem with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Same shit performance we've put in for most games this season but we didn't get away with it. Bound to happen sooner or later. Good day out though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 jonas as ineffective as ever and shooting jonny wilkinson would of been proud of, he just pluzzes me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Had enough possession in 2nd half to win 3 games ; failed because of 2 problems which will continue to bedevil the side's progress until they are addressed - 1. 2 strikers(whichever combo plays up front)who are too similar - a quick agile player is needed alongside the likes of Carroll in order to take advantage of knock-downs etc. 2. Poor supply from the wings - balls slung in from midway between halfway line and by-line are useless ; meat & drink to defenders, and Forest's won most of them in the box. Jonas is NOT a good winger ; he LOOKS good when he gets the ball around the halfway line, but doesn't create danger in the last quarter of the field where it matters. He carries the ball well, but cannot cross either accurately or speedily to save his life and he lacks that killing burst of pace which gets the best flank men past the fullback and then deliver a dangerous, swinging cross into the forwards. In short, he is not direct enough. Sadly, he is the only winger of any consequence which the club has, so he is the one on whom the spotlight inevitably falls when the subject of supply to the forwards is discussed. Back in the 70s, there was a common joke about Stewart Barrowclough, the side's winger in the Supermac days ; fans used to say 'open the gates and he'll run straight through' because Barrowclough tended to use his pace all the time...however, whilst he had his faults, he was still far more dangerous than Jonas ever is, and we beat some great teams by using his pace and directness, Leeds and Liverpool among them. We will not see the best of Carroll & Co until they start getting DECENT crosses into the box from the by-line - I cannot see this happening with the current personnel, and we will continue to lose or draw games that should be won because if it. Scunthorpe will be another tough test..... We've got a winger in LuaLua but he needs a number of games before we will know what he can do. He has loads of pace and he's direct but he hasn't got the experience or bottle to shout at his team mates for the ball, which will only come with games. LuaLua would have defenders shitting if he used his pace to run at them. I’d play Jonas on the left wing as he’s the best we’ve got in that position and I think he’d play better if we had a threat on the other wing and we weren’t trying to play everything down one wing all of the time when we do play wide. I’d also play Ranger and Lovenkrands up front and keep Carroll and Harewood to come off the bench in the second half if needed. Ranger was playing really well and just needs his first goal to go in and then I think he’ll become a much more dangerous player. He’s going to gain nothing from sitting on the bench at this time in his career, he needs games. Lovenkrands seems to have more pace and control than both Harewood and Carroll and I’d expect him to do more with the ball if played to his feet than the other two. Our central midfield should be Smith and Guthrie from the start but Guthrie should be replaced in the second half as he doesn’t have the stamina to play 90 minutes. We’ve very little creativity in the centre of our midfield so we need something else to worry the opposition. The only thing we have to offer is playing the ball wide to spread play and we’re not doing that because of who we are playing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 jonas as ineffective as ever and shooting jonny wilkinson would of been proud of, he just pluzzes me We have nothing on the other side of the pitch so it's easy to defend against Jonas, Forrest had 3 players on him at times so he had nowhere to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Had enough possession in 2nd half to win 3 games ; failed because of 2 problems which will continue to bedevil the side's progress until they are addressed - 1. 2 strikers(whichever combo plays up front)who are too similar - a quick agile player is needed alongside the likes of Carroll in order to take advantage of knock-downs etc. 2. Poor supply from the wings - balls slung in from midway between halfway line and by-line are useless ; meat & drink to defenders, and Forest's won most of them in the box. Jonas is NOT a good winger ; he LOOKS good when he gets the ball around the halfway line, but doesn't create danger in the last quarter of the field where it matters. He carries the ball well, but cannot cross either accurately or speedily to save his life and he lacks that killing burst of pace which gets the best flank men past the fullback and then deliver a dangerous, swinging cross into the forwards. In short, he is not direct enough. Sadly, he is the only winger of any consequence which the club has, so he is the one on whom the spotlight inevitably falls when the subject of supply to the forwards is discussed. Back in the 70s, there was a common joke about Stewart Barrowclough, the side's winger in the Supermac days ; fans used to say 'open the gates and he'll run straight through' because Barrowclough tended to use his pace all the time...however, whilst he had his faults, he was still far more dangerous than Jonas ever is, and we beat some great teams by using his pace and directness, Leeds and Liverpool among them. We will not see the best of Carroll & Co until they start getting DECENT crosses into the box from the by-line - I cannot see this happening with the current personnel, and we will continue to lose or draw games that should be won because if it. Scunthorpe will be another tough test..... We've got a winger in LuaLua but he needs a number of games before we will know what he can do. He has loads of pace and he's direct but he hasn't got the experience or bottle to shout at his team mates for the ball, which will only come with games. LuaLua would have defenders shitting if he used his pace to run at them. Id play Jonas on the left wing as hes the best weve got in that position and I think hed play better if we had a threat on the other wing and we werent trying to play everything down one wing all of the time when we do play wide. Id also play Ranger and Lovenkrands up front and keep Carroll and Harewood to come off the bench in the second half if needed. Ranger was playing really well and just needs his first goal to go in and then I think hell become a much more dangerous player. Hes going to gain nothing from sitting on the bench at this time in his career, he needs games. Lovenkrands seems to have more pace and control than both Harewood and Carroll and Id expect him to do more with the ball if played to his feet than the other two. Our central midfield should be Smith and Guthrie from the start but Guthrie should be replaced in the second half as he doesnt have the stamina to play 90 minutes. Weve very little creativity in the centre of our midfield so we need something else to worry the opposition. The only thing we have to offer is playing the ball wide to spread play and were not doing that because of who we are playing. Agree with a lot of that, Ranger and Lovenkrands definitely need to be brought into the striking equation, as both Harewood and Carroll showed zero ball retention ability yesterday. I think Lua lua is probably going to be a waste of space though, he looks like he suffers from headless chicken syndrome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Agree with a lot of that, Ranger and Lovenkrands definitely need to be brought into the striking equation, as both Harewood and Carroll showed zero ball retention ability yesterday. I think Lua lua is probably going to be a waste of space though, he looks like he suffers from headless chicken syndrome. LuaLua is still only 18 (I think) so he needs games before he can really be judged, he looked effective at reserve team level and we'll only see what he's got to offer after 5 or 6 starts. Ryan Taylor is 6 years older and unlikely to get any better than he is currently so I'd take a chance and leave Taylor to cover at right back where he's adequate when needed and sometimes has something to offer with the dead ball. His free kicks were so bad yesterday that we stopped him from taking them towards the end because we were getting nothing from them. LuaLua may end up failing to make the grade but I’d rather see him given the chance to prove if he is or not. Yes, he's looked headless at times but I think that's understandable when a kid hasn't had time to settle in and feel like he's a part of the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Guttierez has no awareness about where anyone else is on the pitch. He runs at opposition instead of just passing to a free team-mate and I don't blame our lads for having a go at him with those two shots that were abysmal. Total wastes. Harewood is a lazy player too. Doesn't seem to think he has to move for a ball. Harper was dead quiet, needs to shout more to the defenders. Whoever said it was like whenever we visited Wigan is right. Felt just like that. Their fans were....can't even think about how to describe them. We must have been a big scalp to them cos they celebrated at half time like they had won the league. Plus there was a punch up between two of them in the first half which was quite funny. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Gutierrez just probably tries to do to much because he thinks most of his teammates are crap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Gutierrez just probably tries to do to much because he thinks most of his teammates are crap He may be right but is also a hypocrite if he does think that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Had enough possession in 2nd half to win 3 games ; failed because of 2 problems which will continue to bedevil the side's progress until they are addressed - 1. 2 strikers(whichever combo plays up front)who are too similar - a quick agile player is needed alongside the likes of Carroll in order to take advantage of knock-downs etc. 2. Poor supply from the wings - balls slung in from midway between halfway line and by-line are useless ; meat & drink to defenders, and Forest's won most of them in the box. Jonas is NOT a good winger ; he LOOKS good when he gets the ball around the halfway line, but doesn't create danger in the last quarter of the field where it matters. He carries the ball well, but cannot cross either accurately or speedily to save his life and he lacks that killing burst of pace which gets the best flank men past the fullback and then deliver a dangerous, swinging cross into the forwards. In short, he is not direct enough. Sadly, he is the only winger of any consequence which the club has, so he is the one on whom the spotlight inevitably falls when the subject of supply to the forwards is discussed. Back in the 70s, there was a common joke about Stewart Barrowclough, the side's winger in the Supermac days ; fans used to say 'open the gates and he'll run straight through' because Barrowclough tended to use his pace all the time...however, whilst he had his faults, he was still far more dangerous than Jonas ever is, and we beat some great teams by using his pace and directness, Leeds and Liverpool among them. We will not see the best of Carroll & Co until they start getting DECENT crosses into the box from the by-line - I cannot see this happening with the current personnel, and we will continue to lose or draw games that should be won because if it. Scunthorpe will be another tough test..... We've got a winger in LuaLua but he needs a number of games before we will know what he can do. He has loads of pace and he's direct but he hasn't got the experience or bottle to shout at his team mates for the ball, which will only come with games. LuaLua would have defenders shitting if he used his pace to run at them. I’d play Jonas on the left wing as he’s the best we’ve got in that position and I think he’d play better if we had a threat on the other wing and we weren’t trying to play everything down one wing all of the time when we do play wide. I’d also play Ranger and Lovenkrands up front and keep Carroll and Harewood to come off the bench in the second half if needed. Ranger was playing really well and just needs his first goal to go in and then I think he’ll become a much more dangerous player. He’s going to gain nothing from sitting on the bench at this time in his career, he needs games. Lovenkrands seems to have more pace and control than both Harewood and Carroll and I’d expect him to do more with the ball if played to his feet than the other two. Our central midfield should be Smith and Guthrie from the start but Guthrie should be replaced in the second half as he doesn’t have the stamina to play 90 minutes. We’ve very little creativity in the centre of our midfield so we need something else to worry the opposition. The only thing we have to offer is playing the ball wide to spread play and we’re not doing that because of who we are playing. At last an incisive footballing analysis of what we need to do to get our best side out and get the opposition on the back foot. This line up would make things happen in the crucial last third Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Lovenkrands and Ranger as our strike force? I think that's the worst combination at the moment (with no Shola) behind Carroll-Harewood, Ranger-Carroll and Harewood-Ranger (in no particular order). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Gutierrez just probably tries to do to much because he thinks most of his teammates are crap You may be right, but when he has two opposition and his team-mate is free 10 yards away he shouldn't try to fucking beat two men, he looks like he has frigging tunnel vision, has no awareness that his team-mates are free despite them and 4000 mental Geordies shouting it out to him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Lovenkrands and Ranger as our strike force? I think that's the worst combination at the moment (with no Shola) behind Carroll-Harewood, Ranger-Carroll and Harewood-Carroll (in no particular order). Why has it got to be somebody with Carroll? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Lovenkrands and Ranger as our strike force? I think that's the worst combination at the moment (with no Shola) behind Carroll-Harewood, Ranger-Carroll and Harewood-Carroll (in no particular order). Why has it got to be somebody with Carroll? It doesn't. One is obviously a mistake and should say Ranger-Harewood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Gutierrez just probably tries to do to much because he thinks most of his teammates are crap You may be right, but when he has two opposition and his team-mate is free 10 yards away he shouldn't try to f***ing beat two men, he looks like he has frigging tunnel vision, has no awareness that his team-mates are free despite them and 4000 mental Geordies shouting it out to him. I wouldn't say he has no awareness, a couple of times to beat a man and switched play to the other side of the field, stretching the team more than we did most of the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 It doesn't. One is obviously a mistake and should say Ranger-Harewood. I didn't see the same thing twice, anyway Lovenkrands would offer something different to playing the other 3 players who tend to be used as target men. When we have a combination of the other 3 we have nothing different to work with, when it doesn't come off we're knackered and stuck with lumping long balls in the hope that we'll get a second ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Gutierrez just probably tries to do to much because he thinks most of his teammates are crap You may be right, but when he has two opposition and his team-mate is free 10 yards away he shouldn't try to f***ing beat two men, he looks like he has frigging tunnel vision, has no awareness that his team-mates are free despite them and 4000 mental Geordies shouting it out to him. I wouldn't say he has no awareness, a couple of times to beat a man and switched play to the other side of the field, stretching the team more than we did most of the game. Aye and a couple of times he didn't bother passing the ball to lads 10 yards away from him who were clear and instead attempted to beat two men only to be dispossed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Gutierrez just probably tries to do to much because he thinks most of his teammates are crap You may be right, but when he has two opposition and his team-mate is free 10 yards away he shouldn't try to fucking beat two men, he looks like he has frigging tunnel vision, has no awareness that his team-mates are free despite them and 4000 mental Geordies shouting it out to him. Gutierrez might be frustrating but we weren't exactly doing well before he came on either. In fact we were getting pissed on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Gutierrez just probably tries to do to much because he thinks most of his teammates are crap You may be right, but when he has two opposition and his team-mate is free 10 yards away he shouldn't try to f***ing beat two men, he looks like he has frigging tunnel vision, has no awareness that his team-mates are free despite them and 4000 mental Geordies shouting it out to him. I wouldn't say he has no awareness, a couple of times to beat a man and switched play to the other side of the field, stretching the team more than we did most of the game. Aye and a couple of times he didn't bother passing the ball to lads 10 yards away from him who were clear and instead attempted to beat two men only to be dispossed. So he does have awareness then? Football is a team game, if the team is playing crap most players won't look good no matter how good they are (see Messi with Argentina), I'm not saying Jonas should be immune to criticism because some of his decisions yesterday were stupid. The criticism is still over the top in my opinion though, everyone could see we played better as a team with him on the field than with him off it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Gutierrez just probably tries to do to much because he thinks most of his teammates are crap You may be right, but when he has two opposition and his team-mate is free 10 yards away he shouldn't try to fucking beat two men, he looks like he has frigging tunnel vision, has no awareness that his team-mates are free despite them and 4000 mental Geordies shouting it out to him. Gutierrez might be frustrating but we weren't exactly doing well before he came on either. In fact we were getting pissed on. I never said we weren't getting pissed on, I expressed an opinion about Guttierez based on what I saw of him yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Gutierrez just probably tries to do to much because he thinks most of his teammates are crap You may be right, but when he has two opposition and his team-mate is free 10 yards away he shouldn't try to fucking beat two men, he looks like he has frigging tunnel vision, has no awareness that his team-mates are free despite them and 4000 mental Geordies shouting it out to him. Gutierrez might be frustrating but we weren't exactly doing well before he came on either. In fact we were getting pissed on. I never said we weren't getting pissed on, I expressed an opinion about Guttierez based on what I saw of him yesterday. Based on what I saw yesterday I'd rather see Jonas starting left wing ahead of Lovenkrands every day of the week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Gutierrez just probably tries to do to much because he thinks most of his teammates are crap You may be right, but when he has two opposition and his team-mate is free 10 yards away he shouldn't try to fucking beat two men, he looks like he has frigging tunnel vision, has no awareness that his team-mates are free despite them and 4000 mental Geordies shouting it out to him. Gutierrez might be frustrating but we weren't exactly doing well before he came on either. In fact we were getting pissed on. I never said we weren't getting pissed on, I expressed an opinion about Guttierez based on what I saw of him yesterday. Based on what I saw yesterday I'd rather see Jonas starting left wing ahead of Lovenkrands every day of the week. Rather remarkably I made the comment that Lovenkrands should never be played on the wing when we signed him the first time and you won't be hearing me arguing for him to be played on the wing at any point in the future either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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