Stadium naming rights

[madras]

unfortunatly that sort of tradition died the day a big blue star appeared on the shirt.

 

I disagree.

 

As I was growing up only kids ever wore the strip - I had my last one when I was about 14 - the emergence of sponsorship coincided with the mass sale of adult strips so in my view there was no great tradition to be pissed on - the blue star shirt was the first strip that was ever sold to adults (at least in numbers).

 

I recognise the need for money to be raised but I just don't understand why so many people just don't feel how wrong the renaming of the ground is at a massively instinctive level. I fully admit that it provides anew edge to my hatred of Ashley but no matter who it was who had tried this (and even a t*** like Shepherd realised this) there does have to be a line somewhere.

 

Of course the ground as it is now is completely unrecognisable from when I first started going such that you could even try and apply the "new ground" argument. What I would say to that is that because the ground retained its name through all of the developments is precisely what strengthened it as a cornerstone of the fabric of the club.

 

I do agree to some extent with Chez that it may be a diversion but once again I think the imbecile has made another of his crass decisions. To give the fans something to rally around might be just the thing which finally makes a difference even if he doesn't go though with it.

 

Again I would say its a kind of a character test. My honest view is that if the concept doesn't strike you as very, very wrong then I don't feel you're the same sort of Newcastle fan as me. I'm not saying those people aren't fans or worse fans than me but definitely different and honestly worthy of less respect.

 

 

 

 

ypou mention there was no great tradition...club colours were as massive then as now. whereas now it's tops then it was scarves and rosettes.

 

 

consider it thus.......we have no shirt sponser and no corporate naming of the ground and you are given a choice...

 

a) adverts plastered over the strip for the both the players and fans.

 

b) renaming of the ground which everyone will continue to call by its original name.

[Robster]

ypou mention there was no great tradition...club colours were as massive then as now. whereas now it's tops then it was scarves and rosettes.

consider it thus.......we have no shirt sponser and no corporate naming of the ground and you are given a choice...

a) adverts plastered over the strip for the both the players and fans.

b) renaming of the ground which everyone will continue to call by its original name.

Only NUFC fans would still call it SJP. As the media would take on the new label, all non-NUFC fans would start to call it likewise. You would hear it on the radio, on the TV and read in the paper and in magazines.

Basically the whole world bar NUFC fans would call it by the new name and for me, thats a sad thought.

 

Sponsors on a shirt, doesnt change the worldwide vision/impreession of the club 1 bit. We are still NUFC, who play in B&W shirts at SJP.

 

So I would choose a)

[NJS]

 

a) adverts plastered over the strip for the both the players and fans.

 

b) renaming of the ground which everyone will continue to call by its original name.

 

I know the arguments and I consider myself a rational person but as I said I just feel instinctively uneasy about the concept. I can't explain why it's different to the shirt or the hoardings but I suppose I would say the closest thing is the name of the club itself.

 

I know everyone would still call it SJP but every time some Sky idiot refers to it as the "Adidas Arena" it will just jar too much.

 

 

[madras]

ypou mention there was no great tradition...club colours were as massive then as now. whereas now it's tops then it was scarves and rosettes.

consider it thus.......we have no shirt sponser and no corporate naming of the ground and you are given a choice...

a) adverts plastered over the strip for the both the players and fans.

b) renaming of the ground which everyone will continue to call by its original name.

Only NUFC fans would still call it SJP. As the media would take on the new label, all non-NUFC fans would start to call it likewise. You would hear it on thr radioon the TV and read in the paper and in magazines.

Basically the whole world bar NUFC fans would call it by the new name and for me, thats a sad thought.

 

Sponsors on a shirt, doesnt change the worldwide vision/impreession of the club 1 bit. We are still NUFC, who play in B&W shirts at SJP.

 

So I would choose a)

how does the name of the ground change the worldwide imprerssion of the club whereas flogging a bit chunk of the strip off doesn't ?

[NJS]

Also on your option A I would also add that because I find the sight of adults wearing strips ridiculous, I don't consider a logo to be any kind of burden.

 

 

[NJS]

how does the name of the ground change the worldwide imprerssion of the club whereas flogging a bit chunk of the strip off doesn't ?

 

I know Man U and Liverpool get millions but do you really think their "fans" around the world notice the sponsors in a way that affects how they feel about the club?

 

 

[Robster]

how does the name of the ground change the worldwide imprerssion of the club whereas flogging a bit chunk of the strip off doesn't ?

Maybe the word impression isnt right but the clubs ground, often gets referred to when discussing the team, match report etc. They dont say, now lets go over to see how Newcastle Utd, sponsored by Northern Rock, are getting on against Cardiff, sponsored by Asobet (or whatever it is).

Its all superficial I know but I just wouldnt seem right hearing SJP referred to as something else.

[madras]

Also on your option A I would also add that because I find the sight of adults wearing strips ridiculous, I don't consider a logo to be any kind of burden.

 

 

meanwhile think of how many pics of NUFC in action are shown round the world compared to how many SJP is mentioned.. which has more cache....our strip or ground name ?

[NJS]

how does the name of the ground change the worldwide imprerssion of the club whereas flogging a bit chunk of the strip off doesn't ?

Maybe the word impression isnt right but the clubs ground, often gets referred to when discussing the team, match report etc. They dont say, now lets go over to see how Newcastle Utd, sponsored by Northern Rock, are getting on against Cardiff, sponsored by Asobet (or whatever it is).

Its all superficial I know but I just wouldnt seem right hearing SJP referred to as something else.

 

Yep - there is a big difference between a visual logo which quite frankly never gets mentioned no matter who/what it is and the name of the ground which is mentioned all the time.

 

 

[madras]

how does the name of the ground change the worldwide imprerssion of the club whereas flogging a bit chunk of the strip off doesn't ?

Maybe the word impression isnt right but the clubs ground, often gets referred to when discussing the team, match report etc. They dont say, now lets go over to see how Newcastle Utd, sponsored by Northern Rock, are getting on against Cardiff, sponsored by Asobet (or whatever it is).

Its all superficial I know but I just wouldnt seem right hearing SJP referred to as something else.

 

Yep - there is a big difference between a visual logo which quite frankly never gets mentioned no matter who/what it is and the name of the ground which is mentioned all the time.

 

 

naturally a name gets mantioned more than a logo. which reaches further though ?

 

 

really whay i'm saying is that the stadium name is the equivillent of shirt sponsorship all those years ago but at least we can call the ground what we always have whereas we cant buy a current strip without the blurb so easily.

[NJS]

Also on your option A I would also add that because I find the sight of adults wearing strips ridiculous, I don't consider a logo to be any kind of burden.

 

 

meanwhile think of how many pics of NUFC in action are shown round the world compared to how many SJP is mentioned.. which has more cache....our strip or ground name ?

 

How many Asians (for example) know who or what Northern Rock is?

 

The worldwide argument I think is minor anyway (especially for us) , its the constant referrals in this country which would irritate.

 

 

[NJS]

naturally a name gets mantioned more than a logo. which reaches further though ?

 

If you were going for a reach argument then you can't argue against the fact that the two biggest Global clubs in the UK (and adding Real Madrid and Barca) Europe, have never even mentioned doing this - and thats with owners in the case of Man U and Liverpool who would consider it standard.

 

Arsenal imo are a special case because they didn't have the money to build the stadium otherwise (this may apply yet to Liverpool), the other teams who've done it fall into a category which is best summed up as cheap. Our owner may be that but I don't see why the club should be.

 

 

[madras]

Also on your option A I would also add that because I find the sight of adults wearing strips ridiculous, I don't consider a logo to be any kind of burden.

 

 

meanwhile think of how many pics of NUFC in action are shown round the world compared to how many SJP is mentioned.. which has more cache....our strip or ground name ?

 

How many Asians (for example) know who or what Northern Rock is?

 

The worldwide argument I think is minor anyway (especially for us) , its the constant referrals in this country which would irritate.

 

 

i'd guess they'd know who adidas is then which would be even better or if it were greggs then your northern rock holds up.

[madras]

naturally a name gets mantioned more than a logo. which reaches further though ?

 

If you were going for a reach argument then you can't argue against the fact that the two biggest Global clubs in the UK (and adding Real Madrid and Barca) Europe, have never even mentioned doing this - and thats with owners in the case of Man U and Liverpool who would consider it standard.

 

Arsenal imo are a special case because they didn't have the money to build the stadium otherwise (this may apply yet to Liverpool), the other teams who've done it fall into a category which is best summed up as cheap. Our owner may be that but I don't see why the club should be.

 

 

i wish we were as cheap as bayern munchen.

 

 

personally speaking i'd rather flog a name (that the majority that matter wont use) than something visual like the strip that we don't have a choice over.

[NJS]

i'd guess they'd know who adidas is then which would be even better or if it were greggs then your northern rock holds up.

 

Our current status aside, I don't really care about our image outside the UK. We are a million miles away from "mattering" if the truth be told.

 

 

[Robster]

Lets be honest, the biggest gripe is that we wont see the benefit of the money.

If it had been suggested by an owner/chairman who genuinely would have used the money for the benefit of developing the club and the team, then I like to think that most fans, whilst probably begrudgingly, woudl understand it.

 

It's because it's this twat, and the way he slipped it in on the same day as the Hughton appointment, that has got most people back's up.

[Robster]

personally speaking i'd rather flog a name (that the majority that matter wont use) than something visual like the strip that we don't have a choice over.

How would you feel if he flogged the name Newcastle United Football Club ?

(I am assuming that he could, if he so wished)

[Thespence]

Not sure if this has been posted:

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9017/toontoon516x63063610a.jpg

 

IF you venture to Johannesburg for next summer's World Cup and find yourself in rugby-loving company, do not make reference to Coca-Cola Park - the venue for five group games, one second-round match and a quarter-final.

 

Physical violence is likely to ensue.

 

The spiritual home of South African rugby, which staged its first Test match in 1928 against the All Blacks, became a branded venue in 2008 when it sold a name spoken reverentially around the world to the soft drinks company.

 

For thirty million quid.

 

But try finding a soul in South Africa who refers to Johnannesburg's hallowed stadium as Coca- Cola Park.

 

If you do, he's an administrator, a foreigner, or a Coke executive.

 

Journalists, fans and players still go to Ellis Park.

 

It is a defining symbol of a city.

 

Just as St James' Park is.

 

And as long as it remains Newcastle's mountainous landmark, St James' Park will always be St James' Park regardless of whether or not Mike Ashley finds a business warped enough to believe that attaching their name to the ground - and, consequently, to a completely discredited owner - will bring them anything other than negative publicity.

 

But it's the notion, an ill- conceived whim that reads like something scrawled on the back of a beer-mat, that rankles.

 

After a grotesque two years of ownership - featuring the hiring and constructive firing of Kevin Keegan, the employment of Dennis Wise and the incompetence that froze out Alan Shearer, to name but a handful of disasters - this is simply another breathtaking show of disrespect towards the supporters. It's not insensitive, it's an insult. An insult to a set of fans who, for all their inflated self-importance, remain wonderfully loyal.

 

Yet that loyalty is a double agent.

 

A credit to the local population, a comfort to Ashley.

 

The dedication of supporters is something that rarely ceases to amaze.

 

I was at Molineux to see Portsmouth record their first win of the season. Their following was simply fantastic. But they are following a club that is a disgrace - a club once crackling with traditional values now being shuttled between shadowy foreign figures in a web of financial intrigue.

 

After the Sulamain Al-Fahim farce, it seems new owner Ali Al-Faraj hasn't got enough cash.

 

So, according to chief executive Peter Storrie, a loan is being provided by Israeli businessmen Balram Chainrai and Levi Kushnir - men who once had links with Arcadi Gaydamak, the father of former owner Sacha and now on the run in Russia after a French court found him guilty of arms trafficking.

 

Pompey Chimes? Pompey Crimes, more like it.

 

Will the new owner and his lenders have enough money to stave off another firesale in January? My guess is no.

 

Will the debts to Arsenal and Chelsea be met? My guess is no.

 

Will the faceless wheeler- dealers who engineer these takeovers and murky refinancing packages get their millions? My guess is yes.

 

And still they expect the fans to turn up, to buy a programme, a pie, a pint, another replica shirt.

Mug

 

When Newcastle ground out a victory against Doncaster Rovers last weekend, over 44,000 fans were inside St James' Park.

 

So what if, to a man, they despise Mike Ashley? Think he cares?

 

You're buying his programmes, his pies, his pints, his shirts.

 

I know football is in the blood, in the heart. It's a passion for the team, whoever the owner. It's loyalty. It's habit. It's a community. It's a sense of belonging. It's tradition, it's history.

 

But in Portsmouth and Newcastle, it's ripping you off, taking you for a mug.

 

People who can ill-afford them already have season tickets. No one would expect them to waste a few hundred pounds on a point of principle.

 

But for all the uproar on internet forums and radio phone-ins, for all the rebellious chants, there is only one surefire way of getting through to the likes of Ashley.

 

Don't give him a penny of your hard-earned money.

 

There may be someone out there daft enough to fork out millions to rename St James' Park Stadium.

 

There's no one out there daft enough to rename Half Empty Stadium.

 

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport/andy_dunn/575354/FANS-MUST-PUNISH-ASHLEY-FOR-NAME-GAME-SHAME-Andy-Dunn-column.html

 

 

[madras]

personally speaking i'd rather flog a name (that the majority that matter wont use) than something visual like the strip that we don't have a choice over.

How would you feel if he flogged the name Newcastle United Football Club ?

(I am assuming that he could, if he so wished)

that would be totally different as the name is mentioned whenever the club is discussed in any way.

 

the strip and ground name are seperate to that.

[madras]

Lets be honest, the biggest gripe is that we wont see the benefit of the money.

If it had been suggested by an owner/chairman who genuinely would have used the money for the benefit of developing the club and the team, then I like to think that most fans, whilst probably begrudgingly, woudl understand it.

 

It's because it's this t***, and the way he slipped it in on the same day as the Hughton appointment, that has got most people back's up.

we wont find that out till the accounts are published.

[NJS]

personally speaking i'd rather flog a name (that the majority that matter wont use) than something visual like the strip that we don't have a choice over.

How would you feel if he flogged the name Newcastle United Football Club ?

(I am assuming that he could, if he so wished)

that would be totally different as the name is mentioned whenever the club is discussed in any way.

 

the strip and ground name are seperate to that.

 

But that's exactly like it will be which is the point Robster and I are making  - think how many times SSN refer to The Emirates or The Reebok when discussing anything to do with those clubs - even when they aren't playing at the time. Compare that with an average report on Liverpool or Spurs - are there Sponsors mentioned?

 

 

[madras]

personally speaking i'd rather flog a name (that the majority that matter wont use) than something visual like the strip that we don't have a choice over.

How would you feel if he flogged the name Newcastle United Football Club ?

(I am assuming that he could, if he so wished)

that would be totally different as the name is mentioned whenever the club is discussed in any way.

 

the strip and ground name are seperate to that.

 

But that's exactly like it will be which is the point Robster and I are making  - think how many times SSN refer to The Emirates or The Reebok when discussing anything to do with those clubs - even when they aren't playing at the time. Compare that with an average report on Liverpool or Spurs - are there Sponsors mentioned?

 

 

just wait till/if liverpool get their new ground.

 

 

just think of everytime you see any nufc strip with a corpoarte logo on it. i don't see the difference.

 

 

[Optimistic Nut]

personally speaking i'd rather flog a name (that the majority that matter wont use) than something visual like the strip that we don't have a choice over.

How would you feel if he flogged the name Newcastle United Football Club ?

(I am assuming that he could, if he so wished)

that would be totally different as the name is mentioned whenever the club is discussed in any way.

 

the strip and ground name are seperate to that.

 

But that's exactly like it will be which is the point Robster and I are making  - think how many times SSN refer to The Emirates or The Reebok when discussing anything to do with those clubs - even when they aren't playing at the time. Compare that with an average report on Liverpool or Spurs - are there Sponsors mentioned?

 

 

 

Difference is though, the Emirates & Reebok have been known as nothing else but those two names.

 

St James' will always be St James'.

[ohmelads]

There's no point going around in circles because these are the facts that can't be escaped. Ashley is talking about selling our current stadium's name. No, we won't get a new stadium out of it, like Arsenal and Bayern did.

 

When Arsenal moved from Highbury it signalled the end of an era and a sad moment for many fans. But they were moving into a shiny new home, a better stadium with much greater capacity, and a move that was necessary to compete with their long-standing rivals. More fans would get to see their team, the benefits were huge. If Liverpool move, it's exactly the same story.

 

If we sell our stadium name, we get a few million quid a season. This money will likely go straight into the club's debt, ie repaying Ashley for the debts he didn't pay off but said he did.

 

It's not even remotely the same as what Arsenal did. If Adidas are happy to finance a whopping great San Siro-esque stadium in the toon then I'd be all ears, but if they're just planning on slapping their name across our current one so Ashley can pocket a few million quid they can p*ss off.

 

We, the fans, will get little if anything from this. We have to oppose it - not just from a moral standpoint but if we tolerate this we will continue to be walked all over by this man. He's getting 40,000 plus gates while he treats the fans with utter contempt, he's laughing at us and there has to be a line where you say enough is enough. He has proven time and time again his main concern is to get money out of the club and flog it on, if he gets away with this scot free then the club and its fans deserve everything that comes our way because it's bloody obvious what he's up to.

[Robster]

St James' will always be St James'.

Not to Sky it wont