brummie Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 But with our Premiership history of being a top 5 club time most of the time and higher some years,our expectations surely are higher than Villas who are rarely in the top 5.Of course our expectations at the moment are way down whereas the Villa are way above where they are usually in the League.Even Oleary had a season of over performing when they finished 6 th,just one place below our 5th,in a season when we think we under performed. That is why our expectations aren't arrogant but something that we have become used to,ie European football,which now looks a million miles away,and makes them appear arrogant. As often quoted here, we've finished above Newcastle 5 out of the last 9 seasons, and that's without spending any real money and with the worst chairman in the world. Since the Prem started you are the 5th best team, we are the 6th (yes, I know you had one season less there, but there's still not a very big gap). As far as European football goes, as someone pointed out in this very thread, not only are we used to it, we've actually won something there too, although you have had more of it recently, of course. Just to illustrate this point, here are the records for the last 10 years. 2006 - NU 7th AV 16th newcastle highest 2005 - NU 14th AV 10th villa highest 2004 - NU 6th AV 7th newcastle highest 2003 - NU 3rd AV 16th newcastle highest 2002 - NU 4th AV 8th newcastle highest 2001 - NU 11th AV 8th villa highest 2000 - NU 11th AV 6th villa highest 1999 - NU 13th AV 6th villa highest 1998 - NU 13th AV 7th villa highest 1997 - NU 2nd AV 5th newcastle highest 5 times you finished higher, 5 times we did. I'd say that's a pretty evenly balanced record of mediocrity on both sides, don't make out comparing you to Villa is like comparing you to Boro, it is a totally different comparison. Difference is, when we've been higher, we've been a lot higher. When you've been higher, more often than not we've both been mid-table. That's fair comment, although still debatable. I can see one occasion when you were higher and we were both in the top 5 and two where we were top 6 (ie European place) and you were mid table. As stated, the premiership stats show you as the 5th and us as the 6th most successful clubs in that time. The total number of places difference between you and us in season whcih you finished higher is 32, the other way around it is 25. Better in your favour, but not hugely. Plus, we've finished as high as you ever have in the Prem (ie 2nd) and we've won two league cups in that time, too, whereas Newcastle haven't won anything (although to be fair, how you managed to avoid silverware in your best spell is beyond me, and imho extremely unlucky) The point I'm trying to make is that expectations at both clubs are not massively dissimilar and both clubs have been largely mediocre and underperformed for too long. To read some of the comments above, you'd think you were comparing Newcastle with Portsmouth or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 I watched Villa and Everton at the weekend, and it really pissed me off. Villa's squad is certainly no better than ours, but he had them playing with 100% concentration, organised, confident and determined. O'Neill gets the basics right. Villa's position is not a fluke and he'd have done a similar job with us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 I watched Villa and Everton at the weekend, and it really pissed me off. Villa's squad is certainly no better than ours, but he had them playing with 100% concentration, organised, confident and determined. O'Neill gets the basics right. Villa's position is not a fluke and he'd have done a similar job with us. He would have, as well. You should have seen how dreadfully shit we were last season to fully appreciate what he has done. The only other "touchable" (ie not Wenger, Ferguson, Mourinho or Benitez) manager with that kind of motivational ability is Sam Allardyce, I reckon. He'd be my choice as Toon boss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hibbits left foot Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Would the transfer shambles have happened under O Neills watch? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 All speculation. Newcastle have appointed managers with far superior track records than O'Neill yet they didn't do the business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 O'NEILL is no doubt a good manager but i lost a lot of respect for him when he took the Villa job, he was blatently offered not only the toon job but prob the boro job however he turned it down to join villa, IMO he bottled it, he has took a job where even if he was to finish 12th he would have pleased his supporters not forgetting the fact that he would have known all about the take over and the large sums of cash that would be available to spend, he bottled it simple as that, wont come to a club with expectations !!!! Do you seriously think that if O'neill had of been offered the job at SJP he would have accepted.What with the fat controller and the Halls at his back and Shearer ready to step in when everything looked rosey.Give the man so credit for intelligence. Hit the nail on the head. M'ON is far too intelligent to walk into that set-up. For a start it makes his job 100% harder. What premiership manager needs that sort of hindrance from the very start? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 All speculation. Newcastle have appointed managers with far superior track records than O'Neill yet they didn't do the business. Discussion ends here tbh. Newcastle United is a curse, we'd appoint Mourinho and we'd still not win a trophy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nyscooby Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 O'Neil...... get over him already...... The only thing that will save our bacon is the next transfer window. We might hit tenth place with a few intakes, and plenty out! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest elbee909 Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 All speculation. Newcastle have appointed managers with far superior track records than O'Neill yet they didn't do the business. Discussion ends here tbh. Newcastle United is a curse, we'd appoint Mourinho and we'd still not win a trophy. Still have to work with the current board, yeah. Curse in itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 O'Neil...... get over him already...... The only thing that will save our bacon is the next transfer window. We might hit tenth place with a few intakes, and plenty out! Well, we'll see what Roeder has up his sleeve, but an even thinner squad? I doubt that would help us too much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 O'NEILL is no doubt a good manager but i lost a lot of respect for him when he took the Villa job, he was blatently offered not only the toon job but prob the boro job however he turned it down to join villa, IMO he bottled it, he has took a job where even if he was to finish 12th he would have pleased his supporters not forgetting the fact that he would have known all about the take over and the large sums of cash that would be available to spend, he bottled it simple as that, wont come to a club with expectations !!!! 'Can't' - 'Wood' & 'Trees' are 3 of the words in the sentence that springs to mind - if anyone believes O'Neill is in ANY way a bottler, let alone that he bottled NUFC & Boro, then the words 'Cuckoo' & 'Land' are 2 of the words in the NEXT sentence that comes to mind...! We don't even know if O'Neill was OFFERED the Toon job, let alone bottled it - my feeling is that he would have turned it down , but NOT because he was frightened of it - with a different regime in charge, my feeling is that he would have jumped at it, even if Villa had offered him too. You ALL know why O'Neill would have turned the job down.....!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthiGeordie Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I will say one thing for sure as long as O'Neill is in Villa we will never be above Villa. H e is the best manger and you all see that in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kinaldo Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Posted by: brummie As often quoted here, we've finished above Newcastle 5 out of the last 9 seasons, and that's without spending any real money and with the worst chairman in the world. lol, u say 5/9... we say 4/5 or 9/14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Posted by: brummie As often quoted here, we've finished above Newcastle 5 out of the last 9 seasons, and that's without spending any real money and with the worst chairman in the world. lol, u say 5/9... we say 4/5 or 9/14 Aren't statistics great? ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kinaldo Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Well while we're at, have a look at the all time Premiership table and notice that we have a vastly superior goal difference and points tally to Villa despite missing the first season, 92/93 (that included 4 extra games), when as pointed out Villa matched our best ever position of 2nd. Also, that Villa are only ranked 8th when it comes to pts per game. http://www.nufc.com/2006-07images/prem-all-time.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geordieracer Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 that tables a lot more refreshing than looking at the current one, and probably next seasons one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Well while we're at, have a look at the all time Premiership table and notice that we have a vastly superior goal difference and points tally to Villa despite missing the first season, 92/93 (that included 4 extra games), when as pointed out Villa matched our best ever position of 2nd. Also, that Villa are only ranked 8th when it comes to pts per game. Vastly superior points tally? 15 more? Hmmm. And i did point out in the original post that you had one season less than us to base your results on. Although by the looks of it, we'll make up those 15 pts by the end of this season ;-) (I'm joking, don't bite) The point i was making was not that one is better than the other, it was that we're effectively two clubs in the same second level of clubs, with similar expectations, and with similar failure to reach them. Spurs are there, too, as are Everton. And now, given the massive gap between the top and the second level of clubs, I don't think that is ever going to change, sadly. In fact, if it does change, i think the only way it will be is if Liverpool drop out of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kinaldo Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I'm not arguing with you, just playing with statistics :winking: I agree that we're in the same tier as Spurs, Villa and Everton, maybe even Boro lol! And tbf, 15 pts is quite significant for 43 games less (table posted was last updated on 6/9/06), especially considering we average over 1.5pts per game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I'm not arguing with you, just playing with statistics :winking: I agree that we're in the same tier as Spurs, Villa and Everton, maybe even Boro lol! And tbf, 15 pts is quite significant for 43 games less (table posted was last updated on 6/9/06), especially considering we average over 1.5pts per game. Surely not Boro! Frankly, we're lucky we're not in the Championship this season after last year's badness. The last 5 years have been entirely forgettable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kenton Magpie Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I wish Villa all the best, they deserve any future success for having the nouse about them to get the right man in once they parted ways with O'deary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I wish Villa all the best, they deserve any future success for having the nouse about them to get the right man in once they parted ways with O'deary Agree totally - this takeover is just too late.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Amanda Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 4th. MON is magic and Villa had the sense to get him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Just waiting for Invicta to post his usual thoughts about MON - but then, he's probably waiting for another Villa defeat before doing that...might be only a few occasions when THAT happens though..!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1nol Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Daft as it sounds, from February to May we were on a high with Roeder and picking up decent results with a previously crap team. While O'Neill is undoubtedly the better manager, is it not possible that Villa are experiencing the same thing? Just a thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geordieracer Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 dunno, i doubt it, hes managing a small squad which is david o'learys, in january he will bring players in that he likes and wants, so i would be suprised if they drop off tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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