Colos Short and Curlies Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 If (and its a big if) we are back to challenging for Europe in 3-5 years then relegation will have been the catalyst for it imo. Its a lot easier to make drastic decisions in the CCC than the Premier League. Owen would probably still be on our books if we had survivied, another 4 years before we could look to move forward then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bobthemag Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 No, your question is far too simplistic. I don't think anyone is asking that at all. The question is does the owner have any ambition to take the club into a challenging position in the PL or not. Beyond that there are no guarantees, as I've always said. Personally, I think this kind of comment is way off the mark. Newcastle were in a god almighty mess. We needed relegation to sort the club out. I don't think we have changed as much as I would like but as previously mentioned we have an upwards momentum at the moment. Our aim for next season should simply be 17th. Stay in the league. From then our target should be an increased number of points year on year. A gradual, slow building process that keeps us financially stable, based on a good transfer model-something along the lines that Sir Bobby employed. Good young players in, and let them develop with a few senior heads around them. That is a sustainable approach- We are not ready for European football and won't be for some time. f*** off To be fair to him, people were saying that before last season. Relegation may be pushing it too far, but a drastic change was needed to let the club clear out the deadwood it had been accumulating since 2002. and took 7 years to go down Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 We needed relegation. :lol: Fucking hell. Fuck off we needed relegation ? Is this a joke Steve Harper - "A few very, very good supporters of the club insisted perhaps in the long run relegation would turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Perhaps they were right." Blimey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 We needed relegation. :lol: f***ing hell. f*** off we needed relegation ? Is this a joke Steve Harper - "A few very, very good supporters of the club insisted perhaps in the long run relegation would turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Perhaps they were right." Blimey. saying relegation could turn out to be a good thing once it's happened and we are recovering from it is different to saying we needed it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 We needed relegation. :lol: f***ing hell. f*** off we needed relegation ? Is this a joke Steve Harper - "A few very, very good supporters of the club insisted perhaps in the long run relegation would turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Perhaps they were right." Blimey. saying relegation could turn out to be a good thing once it's happened and we are recovering from it is different to saying we needed it. Are you saying nufc_geordie isn't using an element of hindsight in what he said? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 He'd still be sat on the bench otherwise so you can see why he'd see the benefit of the disaster of 08/09. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 He'd still be sat on the bench otherwise so you can see why he'd see the benefit of the disaster of 08/09. Fine, you're right. His interview with Gibson made him sound a complete selfish curnt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Icke - Son of God Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 We needed relegation. :lol: Fucking hell. Fuck off we needed relegation ? Is this a joke Steve Harper - "A few very, very good supporters of the club insisted perhaps in the long run relegation would turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Perhaps they were right." Blimey. He's spent too long on the fucking sunbeds, that lad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 We needed relegation. :lol: Fucking hell. Fuck off we needed relegation ? Is this a joke Steve Harper - "A few very, very good supporters of the club insisted perhaps in the long run relegation would turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Perhaps they were right." Blimey. He's spent too long on the fucking sunbeds, that lad. True. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 He'd still be sat on the bench otherwise so you can see why he'd see the benefit of the disaster of 08/09. Fine, you're right. His interview with Gibson made him sound a complete selfish curnt. Where did I say that? Harper will start next season as a first choice premier league keeper. He's never been in that position in his whole career. So relegation has been good for him in the long term. I'm sure Shay Given isn't looking back thinking "why did i leave?" just yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 He'd still be sat on the bench otherwise so you can see why he'd see the benefit of the disaster of 08/09. Fine, you're right. His interview with Gibson made him sound a complete selfish curnt. Where did I say that? Harper will start next season as a first choice premier league keeper. He's never been in that position in his whole career. So relegation has been good for him in the long term. I'm sure Shay Given isn't looking back thinking "why did i leave?" just yet. The point was he was talking about the club as a whole maybe benefiting from the clearout following our drop, not his own career. I'm sure he's chuffed that Shay upped sticks, that said though, going by parts of that interview I think he feels he genuinly has a battle on his hands to hold off Krul and Foster. /It was really good to hear him speak about Foster like that (and gave even more credence to that Norwich fan in the other thread), glad he seems to think the club will do it's best to hold onto him too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malandro Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Do you have to be relegated before the players can hold a clear the air meeting? No. Do you have to be relegated before you can have a pre-season jolly to Ireland? No. Do you have to be relegated to get rid of the deadwood? No. Has relegation cost the club somewhere between £30m-£40m? Yes. Is Harper talking shit? Very probably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled in Texas Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Do you have to be relegated to get rid of the deadwood? No. No, but it makes it more obvious to all parties, including the deadwood, that things cannot remain the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 We needed relegation? I have to disagree completely. Most of the deadwood we got rid of in the summer/january were coming to the end of their contracts and would have gone had we stayed up: Owen Cacapa Viduka Geremi Duff may have stayed but other then that we could still have gotten rid of most of the shit while also keeping more of our good players like Bassong, Martins and Beye. It also would have meant that Ashley wouldn't have had to put another £20+ million in just to keep us afloat this season, instead we'd be looking profitable for the first time and that money could have been spent on improving the squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jonlane86 Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I think the point people are missing here is that its not 100% down to Mike that we went down. If it wasn't last season would have been some time in the following 3 years. We were a sinking ship destined for relegation. Now we've gone down we've managed to sort a lot of the stuff out that was wrong with the club, and when we go up we can start to build again. 17th next season would give us the opportunity to stabilise the following season. Europe just isn't realistic when you have Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Man City, Everton and Aston Villa challenging for the top 8 spots, and only the top 5 get Europe barring any cup success. Not to mention Fulham who are still in the Europa League. All the clubs I've just mentioned aren't on the brink of going into administration, most of them have manageable debt but most are also well run by good managers. We have to break into this top 8/9 before we can think about Europe, and its going to take a few years to do just that. At least the way the club is now run means that we have a chance of being self sufficient. I'd like to see us stay up next year, and then concentrate on playing entertaining football the year after. We might as well kiss success and honours goodbye and enjoy watching this club play good football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I think the point people are missing here is that its not 100% down to Mike that we went down. If it wasn't last season would have been some time in the following 3 years. We were a sinking ship destined for relegation. Now we've gone down we've managed to sort a lot of the stuff out that was wrong with the club, and when we go up we can start to build again. 17th next season would give us the opportunity to stabilise the following season. Europe just isn't realistic when you have Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Man City, Everton and Aston Villa challenging for the top 8 spots, and only the top 5 get Europe barring any cup success. Not to mention Fulham who are still in the Europa League. All the clubs I've just mentioned aren't on the brink of going into administration, most of them have manageable debt but most are also well run by good managers. We have to break into this top 8/9 before we can think about Europe, and its going to take a few years to do just that. At least the way the club is now run means that we have a chance of being self sufficient. I'd like to see us stay up next year, and then concentrate on playing entertaining football the year after. We might as well kiss success and honours goodbye and enjoy watching this club play good football. I don't think we were neccesarilly a cert to go down in the future anymore then we're going to be next season. IMO we were shackled by dead wood players and an idiot owner who couldn't get managerial appointments right. The deadwood was out of contract and would have been released anyway. The idiot owner is still going to be around next season. Meanwhile just to finance the relegation we've had to lose a few of our better players (Bassong, Martins and Beye) and now owe big Mike another £20m. Winning so many games may have given the team confidence, but its come at a huge price and could turn out to be false confidence without the neccesary investment to replace the players we never wanted to sell in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malandro Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Do you have to be relegated to get rid of the deadwood? No. No, but it makes it more obvious to all parties, including the deadwood, that things cannot remain the same. Owen and Viduka were out of contract, and Bassong wasn’t deadwood. So what you’re saying is Duff, Beye and Martins would have insisted on staying if we’d stayed up, can you explain why? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 He'd still be sat on the bench otherwise so you can see why he'd see the benefit of the disaster of 08/09. Fine, you're right. His interview with Gibson made him sound a complete selfish curnt. Where did I say that? Harper will start next season as a first choice premier league keeper. He's never been in that position in his whole career. So relegation has been good for him in the long term. I'm sure Shay Given isn't looking back thinking "why did i leave?" just yet. The point was he was talking about the club as a whole maybe benefiting from the clearout following our drop, not his own career. I'm sure he's chuffed that Shay upped sticks, that said though, going by parts of that interview I think he feels he genuinly has a battle on his hands to hold off Krul and Foster. /It was really good to hear him speak about Foster like that (and gave even more credence to that Norwich fan in the other thread), glad he seems to think the club will do it's best to hold onto him too. Not "the" point, "your" point. "My" point was we all bring our own circumstances with us when we look at a situation. Does Harper see us as better off? It would seem so. Does Given? Probably not. Does Hughton? Probably. Keegan? Probably not. Ashley/Llambias? Definitley. Me, having seen us promoted last time around and in the Champions league several times over before starting our slow descent? Not yet. My little cousin who went to his first match in 2007 and has never seen us win so many games in his life? I'm afraid so. It's very much a personal thing whether you're happier at Newcastle now than you have been in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 He'd still be sat on the bench otherwise so you can see why he'd see the benefit of the disaster of 08/09. Fine, you're right. His interview with Gibson made him sound a complete selfish curnt. Where did I say that? Harper will start next season as a first choice premier league keeper. He's never been in that position in his whole career. So relegation has been good for him in the long term. I'm sure Shay Given isn't looking back thinking "why did i leave?" just yet. The point was he was talking about the club as a whole maybe benefiting from the clearout following our drop, not his own career. I'm sure he's chuffed that Shay upped sticks, that said though, going by parts of that interview I think he feels he genuinly has a battle on his hands to hold off Krul and Foster. /It was really good to hear him speak about Foster like that (and gave even more credence to that Norwich fan in the other thread), glad he seems to think the club will do it's best to hold onto him too. Not "the" point, "your" point. "My" point was we all bring our own circumstances with us when we look at a situation. Does Harper see us as better off? It would seem so. Does Given? Probably not. Does Hughton? Probably. Keegan? Probably not. Ashley/Llambias? Definitley. Me, having seen us promoted last time around and in the Champions league several times over before starting our slow descent? Not yet. My little cousin who went to his first match in 2007 and has never seen us win so many games in his life? I'm afraid so. It's very much a personal thing whether you're happier at Newcastle now than you have been in the past. You must have been hallucinating. It was twice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled in Texas Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Do you have to be relegated to get rid of the deadwood? No. No, but it makes it more obvious to all parties, including the deadwood, that things cannot remain the same. Owen and Viduka were out of contract, and Bassong wasnt deadwood. So what youre saying is Duff, Beye and Martins would have insisted on staying if wed stayed up, can you explain why? Wasn't specifically referring to just Duff, Beye and Martins - but more to the fact that players and fans would not have accepted the need to change in the wage structure had we stayed up on Goal Difference last year. Had we stayed in the PL then players would have expected higher wages than we are currently offering. Assuming that Routledge still signed for us, do you think he would be on the same wage structure that he is on now. If we get promoted this season, then for the 2010-11 season do you think our cost structure will be better, or will be exactly what it would have been had we stayed up. Would fans have the wages/cost structure expectations for the club in 2010-11 had we stayed in the PL? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 He'd still be sat on the bench otherwise so you can see why he'd see the benefit of the disaster of 08/09. Fine, you're right. His interview with Gibson made him sound a complete selfish curnt. Where did I say that? Harper will start next season as a first choice premier league keeper. He's never been in that position in his whole career. So relegation has been good for him in the long term. I'm sure Shay Given isn't looking back thinking "why did i leave?" just yet. The point was he was talking about the club as a whole maybe benefiting from the clearout following our drop, not his own career. I'm sure he's chuffed that Shay upped sticks, that said though, going by parts of that interview I think he feels he genuinly has a battle on his hands to hold off Krul and Foster. /It was really good to hear him speak about Foster like that (and gave even more credence to that Norwich fan in the other thread), glad he seems to think the club will do it's best to hold onto him too. Not "the" point, "your" point. "My" point was we all bring our own circumstances with us when we look at a situation. Does Harper see us as better off? It would seem so. Does Given? Probably not. Does Hughton? Probably. Keegan? Probably not. Ashley/Llambias? Definitley. Me, having seen us promoted last time around and in the Champions league several times over before starting our slow descent? Not yet. My little cousin who went to his first match in 2007 and has never seen us win so many games in his life? I'm afraid so. It's very much a personal thing whether you're happier at Newcastle now than you have been in the past. No, it was the point, not mine. The point being, has going down benefited us in any way. I have not even stated my feelings on the issue. nufc_geordie brought up that he felt the drop could have been necessary to see certain positive changes occur and got slagged to shit for it. It's a hard concept to come to terms with clearly, but here we have a senior player at the club saying that it may well have had some merit to it, that there have been some clear benefits, and that is quite significant. Again, Harper may well be jumping for joy that Given buggered off (though don't forget that that happened a good deal before we sunk into the chumps league), but I'd prefer to credit him with being able to recognise the big picture rather than be influenced by personal fortune on this issue, fair enough, you don't think that that is the case. As to your last bit. I too have been there pre and post the last Keegans promotion push, but I think you are again missing the point. Its not about being 'happier at Newcastle now than in the past' - for most of us there have been better times - it's simply about recognising that there may be silver linings to our latest fall and being happy to see them. nufc_geordie felt there was, and got hammered. Harper indicated that supporters like him might well have had a point, and surprise surprise he is getting the critical digs thrown his way now too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I think the point people are missing here is that its not 100% down to Mike that we went down. If it wasn't last season would have been some time in the following 3 years. We were a sinking ship destined for relegation. Now we've gone down we've managed to sort a lot of the stuff out that was wrong with the club, and when we go up we can start to build again. 17th next season would give us the opportunity to stabilise the following season. Europe just isn't realistic when you have Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Man City, Everton and Aston Villa challenging for the top 8 spots, and only the top 5 get Europe barring any cup success. Not to mention Fulham who are still in the Europa League. All the clubs I've just mentioned aren't on the brink of going into administration, most of them have manageable debt but most are also well run by good managers. We have to break into this top 8/9 before we can think about Europe, and its going to take a few years to do just that. At least the way the club is now run means that we have a chance of being self sufficient. I'd like to see us stay up next year, and then concentrate on playing entertaining football the year after. We might as well kiss success and honours goodbye and enjoy watching this club play good football. I think the point youre missing is that as club owner it IS 100% down to Ashley since the time he bought the club Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Harpers hardly gonna say that Ashleys a cunt and being relegated is the worse thing that could have happened to the club is he? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Harpers hardly gonna say that Ashleys a cunt and being relegated is the worse thing that could have happened to the club is he? There's no mention of Ashley, and he doesn't even get close to saying that relegation was a ever a good thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 He'd still be sat on the bench otherwise so you can see why he'd see the benefit of the disaster of 08/09. Fine, you're right. His interview with Gibson made him sound a complete selfish curnt. Where did I say that? Harper will start next season as a first choice premier league keeper. He's never been in that position in his whole career. So relegation has been good for him in the long term. I'm sure Shay Given isn't looking back thinking "why did i leave?" just yet. The point was he was talking about the club as a whole maybe benefiting from the clearout following our drop, not his own career. I'm sure he's chuffed that Shay upped sticks, that said though, going by parts of that interview I think he feels he genuinly has a battle on his hands to hold off Krul and Foster. /It was really good to hear him speak about Foster like that (and gave even more credence to that Norwich fan in the other thread), glad he seems to think the club will do it's best to hold onto him too. Not "the" point, "your" point. "My" point was we all bring our own circumstances with us when we look at a situation. Does Harper see us as better off? It would seem so. Does Given? Probably not. Does Hughton? Probably. Keegan? Probably not. Ashley/Llambias? Definitley. Me, having seen us promoted last time around and in the Champions league several times over before starting our slow descent? Not yet. My little cousin who went to his first match in 2007 and has never seen us win so many games in his life? I'm afraid so. It's very much a personal thing whether you're happier at Newcastle now than you have been in the past. You must have been hallucinating. It was twice. Thrice! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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