Goals for Goal-line handballs?

[Zero]

No. Red card and a penalty is fair enough.  To be honest, I always feel like it's the other way round - red card + a goal conceded is too harsh.

Face it, if Gyan has scored the penalty, no one here will scream about the rule.  Midds got a point.

 

The other problem is it will leads to a lot more controversal decision since it requires the referee to judge what means "a certain goal".

How do you define that? Does that means without the interference of the hand the ball should be in the net? Or whatever a shot is blocked by the means of hand?

Apply it to this case, are you sure the ball will be a goal without Suarez' interference? From what I see, the ball should hit Suarez' head instead of go directly into the net.

I am not sure how the ball will bounce after hitting Suarez head, it may still bounce towards the net, I don't know. But the point is, it's ridiculously hard to define what is a "certain" goal in football.

And in football ONE goal counts a lot more than other's sports. Such controversal decision, and the consequences, are too much for the referee to carry with.

 

 

A better way to deal with is to penalize Suarez heavier AFTER the match, say 6 matches ban.

[Zero]

Ar yea, just have been discussed with friends about this, he has a question:

How about a keeper foul his opponent who apparently trying to round him and nearly succeed and prepare to finish it off?

Is this a" certain goal"?

[alpal78]

No. Red card and a penalty is fair enough.  To be honest, I always feel like it's the other way round - red card + a goal conceded is too harsh.

Face it, if Gyan has scored the penalty, no one here will scream about the rule.  Midds got a point.

 

The other problem is it will leads to a lot more controversal decision since it requires the referee to judge what means "a certain goal".

How do you define that? Does that means without the interference of the hand the ball should be in the net? Or whatever a shot is blocked by the means of hand?

Apply it to this case, are you sure the ball will be a goal without Suarez' interference? From what I see, the ball should hit Suarez' head instead of go directly into the net.

I am not sure how the ball will bounce after hitting Suarez head, it may still bounce towards the net, I don't know. But the point is, it's ridiculously hard to define what is a "certain" goal in football.

And in football ONE goal counts a lot more than other's sports. Such controversal decision, and the consequences, are too much for the referee to carry with.

 

 

A better way to deal with is to penalize Suarez heavier AFTER the match, say 6 matches ban.

 

Zero you raised some good points including the example of the striker rounding the keeper. I agree with you as I stated earlier that it can't be goal + red cad, that would be excessive. It has to be a goal if clear or a penalty + red card if not clear.

 

Yes it does put more pressure on the referee but I would say that the ref should give the goal only if he was sure, as he should have been in this case. Don't know bout you but that header for me was a clear goal, I didn't think it was going to hit any other part of Suarez. He stuck out his hand maybe slightly just in front of the line and but for the hand, it would have been a goal. 

 

If the referee is in doubt, he should give a penalty + red card. Since as many have said penalties would mostly be scored anyway, I doubt the attacking team would complain. In fact if there was still more than 30 minutes to play, they might actually prefer the penalty + red card scenario coz then they get to play against 10 man for the next 30 minutes. But if he was sure then giving a goal without any card to the offender is the fairest decision to both teams,  it gives the attacking team their due without unnecessarily punishing the offending team anymore than they deserve.

 

The 6 (insert whatever number) match ban might work as a deterrent but it does not give redress to the team who for all purposes have scored the goal.

 

Regarding your example of the striker rounding off the keeper, I would just give a penalty + red card. For me a "clear goal" contain a few elements i) when the shot/header had already been made, 2) the shot/header had already beaten the keeper iii) the shot would have gone in had it not been for the handball. I realize listing down those elements makes it sound complicated, but I do think there are cases where one can make that judgement instantly (as in this case). Otherwise just give the penalty and the red card.

[James]

I think alpal has succintly put it how I would like to see it in the rule book.

 

A few people have very fairly asked why we are only mentioning it now, and not when other players have handled on the line. Quite simply, the incident is the first one to highlight the injustice, and has put the idea fresh in people's minds.

 

I can't see how any team could complain about the rule being enforced against them if beyond reasonable doubt.

 

This is not too radical in my opinion, we will see it happen once a year maximum.

[alpal78]

I think alpal has succintly put it how I would like to see it in the rule book.

 

A few people have very fairly asked why we are only mentioning it now, and not when other players have handled on the line. Quite simply, the incident is the first one to highlight the injustice, and has put the idea fresh in people's minds.

 

I can't see how any team could complain about the rule being enforced against them if beyond reasonable doubt.

 

This is not too radical in my opinion, we will see it happen once a year maximum.

 

I think FIFA should get me to join their rule making board or whatever shit it is called 

 

You're spot on on why it is being discussed now, it's clearly the combination of a very rare set of circumstances (that still deserves thinking of nevertheless). First it was a clear goal, second Gyan missed the penalty and third there was no more time to play for Ghana to take advantage of the 11 vs 10 situation. Don't think something similar has ever happened. 

[madras]

Where was this campaign to get the rules changed yesterday then? It wasn't even an issue yesterday but now there's a clamour to alter the rules because Gyan missed the pen.

 

Ridiculous.

the rules have constantly adapted to occasions like this. at one time the cross bar was a rope, there were no penalties,a newcastle player was so adept at catching players offsider that the rule was changed, at one time is was OK to kick players from behind.

[thomas]

A ball did not cross a line; a goal cannot be awarded.  End of. 

 

That it did not cross the line due to a player committing a foul is immaterial.

[Tisd09]

If you brought this in it would start getting silly. What about Solskjaer at Old Trafford when he hacked down Rob Lee, even though the argument is not as strong as a handball on the line there still is an argument that a sending off and red card was not punishment enough for Solskjaer.

 

Someone mentioned rugby where penalty tries are awarded, that will only happen for persistant offenses really like pulling the scrum down close to the line. Usually the ref will give the offending team the benefit of doubt on a couple of occassions.

 

As frustrating as it must be for Ghana I dont think there is a rule change needed. Can't compare this to England, as someone was punished and Ghana were given the chance to take advantage.

[Guest firetotheworks]

My first thought when reading the title was 'Don't be daft.', it still is.

[ross magoo]

Nope.  The ball needs to go in the goal for it to be a goal.  Change that and you're opening up a can of worms imo.

[Guest Antigalican]

very true, the penalty try thing in rugby always leaves a hollow feeling.

[Guest gggg]

No, because it wasn't a goal. What's with the massive overreactions to handballs lately?

 

Uruguay should have had a penalty earlier but nothing happened. Uruguay get punished with a man sent off and an opportunity to win the game from 12 bloody yards and everyone starts crying. Tough shit that they didn't take it.

[Guest Antigalican]

True. Their penalty that wasn't was nailed on.

[Teasy]

No. Ridiculous idea for me.

 

If you're shit at penalties then that's your fault. Even in the event of a miss you've still got the rest of the match with a 1 man advantage (not much use in tonight's game like, but then, rules aren't based on single matches for a reason)

 

Sorry but IMO that's

 

The current rule only rewards cynical cheats IMO, which is a recurring story in Football these days, apparently that's the way you like it?

[TaylorJ_01]

How the hell does it reward them? They get a man sent off and banned for a few matches and give away a penalty which is pretty much a goal.

[thomas]

No. Ridiculous idea for me.

 

If you're shit at penalties then that's your fault. Even in the event of a miss you've still got the rest of the match with a 1 man advantage (not much use in tonight's game like, but then, rules aren't based on single matches for a reason)

 

Sorry but that is totally

 

The fact is the current rule only rewards cynical cheats, which is a recurring story in Football these days, apparently that's the way you like it?

Sorry but that is totally

 

The fact is no one would be gushing out a cryphoon over this if Gyan had tucked it away. As it stands, a man got sent off, and a penalty was awarded and subsequently missed.  Now everyone wants to just automatically award a goal based on a referee's split second judgement(was it going in or not) when they've already proven inept at handling the monumentally simpler task of deciding whether or not goals which DID go in count.  Still no. 

 

 

[Teasy]

How the hell does it reward them? They get a man sent off and banned for a few matches and give away a penalty which is pretty much a goal.

 

Oh a penalty you say, yeah sorry you're right a pen is much worse then a certian goal..

 

As for a sending off, it only makes a difference earlier in the game, late in the game its 100% too a teams advantage to handle on the line if the ball would otherwise go in, they get a second chance with a keeper in the way to try to save the pen and the only punishement they get is that player missing the next match, meanwhile the opposition get no reward what so ever.

[Guest firetotheworks]

So you'd just adjust reality and say it was a goal then? A red card, and a penalty is the correct punishment, anything else, and you're rewriting reality, and causing the kind of shit stirred can of worms that occurred when that England goal wasn't given.

[Teasy]

Sorry but that is totally

 

The fact is no one would be gushing out a cryphoon over this if Gyan had tucked it away. As it stands, a man got sent off, and a penalty was awarded and subsequently missed.  Now everyone wants to just automatically award a goal based on a referee's split second judgement(was it going in or not) when they've already proven inept at handling the monumentally simpler task of deciding whether or not goals which DID go in count.  Still no. 

 

That first sentence is really irrelivant, of course it takes something to go wrong on a big stage before a law or rule is questioned, that doesn't make the question any less valid.

 

I'm not claiming it would be easy to inforce or even possible.  I was arguing with the idea that the penalty and red card is adequate punishement for what happened in that game and the attitude of "he had his chance, if he misses tough" ect.  I agree that currently without TV replays being used we have to put up with the current rules, I only disagree with the idea that they're fine as they are.

[Teasy]

So you'd just adjust reality and say it was a goal then? A red card, and a penalty is the correct punishment, anything else, and you're rewriting reality, and causing the kind of shit stirred can of worms that occurred when that England goal wasn't given.

 

Nobody would be rewriting anything, IF and its a big IF they could make it work (and it could only ever come in if TV replays came in first) you just change the rule so that a last man handball on the line is a goal, its only a rule that the ball going over the line is a goal you know

 

A red and a penalty isn't the correct punishement at all IMO, its clearly open to abuse, unfortunately its probably the best we can come up with at the moment.

[Guest neesy111]

No, it's literally one of the most stupid football-related ideas I've ever heard.

 

this

[Guest neesy111]

So you'd just adjust reality and say it was a goal then? A red card, and a penalty is the correct punishment, anything else, and you're rewriting reality, and causing the kind of shit stirred can of worms that occurred when that England goal wasn't given.

 

Nobody would be rewriting anything, IF and its a big IF they could make it work (and it could only ever come in if TV replays came in first) you just change the rule so that a last man handball on the line is a goal, its only a rule that the ball going over the line is a goal you know

 

A red and a penalty isn't the correct punishement at all IMO, its clearly open to abuse.

 

right, how can a referee decide that the player did it accidentally or instinctively!

 

goals should never be given unless the ball goes past the goal line simple as!

[Teasy]

So you'd just adjust reality and say it was a goal then? A red card, and a penalty is the correct punishment, anything else, and you're rewriting reality, and causing the kind of shit stirred can of worms that occurred when that England goal wasn't given.

 

Nobody would be rewriting anything, IF and its a big IF they could make it work (and it could only ever come in if TV replays came in first) you just change the rule so that a last man handball on the line is a goal, its only a rule that the ball going over the line is a goal you know

 

A red and a penalty isn't the correct punishement at all IMO, its clearly open to abuse.

 

right, how can a referee decide that the player did it accidentally or instinctively!

 

goals should never be given unless the ball goes past the goal line simple as!

 

A ref doesn't need to worry about that when giving a penalty so why should he with this theoretical rule?

[Teasy]

IMO giving a goal for a last man handball on the line is unfeasable (with current technology), but I definitely agree that penalty + red card is too open to cheating.

[timeEd32]

The player should definitely receive a lengthier ban. It makes me sick that Suarez might get to play in a World Cup final after blatantly cheating (instinct or not).