Dr Venkman Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 i believe the initial disagreement was over whether he made an immediate impact, I think he did due to his talent/style of play, others think he didnt and it was merely down to us needing an equaliser. fair enough, you're wrong though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 The key difference between HBA and Obertan is that the later played 90 minutes sunday while Hatem played less than 20 minutes... If anything that should be better for Ben Arfa as he was fresh playing against tired players, yet... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 The key difference between HBA and Obertan is that the later played 90 minutes sunday while Hatem played less than 20 minutes... If anything that should be better for Ben Arfa as he was fresh playing against tired players, yet... he wont be fresh til he's match fit and you know that as well as i do Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 1) I don't think any of our other attacking players drew players on in the same way Ben Arfa did? They really didn't. None of them could hold onto the ball in advanced positions, whilst looking to forge openings, the way Ben Arfa did... 2) Average at best? In terms of what exactly? Yes, in terms of what he can offer us in the future... Obviously there is much more to come, but it's clear to anyone with more than a simple view of football that what he was doing on the ball exceeds the average... 3) He was not 'too greedy' in general ffs. It's exactly what he does in his game and it's exactly how he should be playing. Christ. 1)Look how many people were surrounding Jonas when he was holding play up on the touchline waiting for support, or when Obertan was running at them from deep, it's how Spurs defend as a team. 2)Average in that the majority of things he tried didn't come off, often resulting in him losing the ball. 3)There were several examples of where he either refused to get the ball in quick or take the simple option as he wanted to do it all, when it comes off he can milk all of the praise you fan boys want to lump on him but when it doesn't he's going to be pulled up on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 The key difference between HBA and Obertan is that the later played 90 minutes sunday while Hatem played less than 20 minutes... If anything that should be better for Ben Arfa as he was fresh playing against tired players, yet... he wont be fresh til he's match fit and you know that as well as i do So why was he so much better when he came on against Blackburn then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Glad that Baggio has no say on our first team. Hopefully his voice doesn't get heard by the people that count Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlacknWhiteArmy Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 The key difference between HBA and Obertan is that the later played 90 minutes sunday while Hatem played less than 20 minutes... If anything that should be better for Ben Arfa as he was fresh playing against tired players, yet... he wont be fresh til he's match fit and you know that as well as i do So why was he so much better when he came on against Blackburn then? Urgh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I also have doubts about how he's going to link up with Ba since neither is much of a target man with both preferring to drop deep , Ba's hold up play isn't anything special either. While we can't read too much into Pardew's thinking just yet he's always gone with what he see's as a target man, on both occasions he's taken Ba off when bringing Ben Arfa on so I wonder if he does see them as a partnership? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Key here is that Baggio doesn't seem to be able to analyse play very well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Ba's hold up play isn't anything special either. Wrong Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Number 9 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 The key difference between HBA and Obertan is that the later played 90 minutes sunday while Hatem played less than 20 minutes... If anything that should be better for Ben Arfa as he was fresh playing against tired players, yet... he wont be fresh til he's match fit and you know that as well as i do So why was he so much better when he came on against Blackburn then? I would suggest this is because Blackburn were an utter disaster, he won't have had a particularly hard time doing what he liked compared to against a side like Spurs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Glad that Baggio has no say on our first team. Hopefully his voice doesn't get heard by the people that count Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Key here is that Baggio doesn't seem to be able to analyse play very well. Key here is that Baggio isn't one of these foreign fan boys and instead gives an impartial opinion on all of our players that is formed from going to games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heneage Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Be interesting to see Ben Arfa on the right and given license to roam ala Mata at Chelsea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Key here is that Baggio doesn't seem to be able to analyse play very well. Key here is that Baggio isn't one of these foreign fan boys and instead gives an impartial opinion on all of our players that is formed from going to games. You're opinion is just wrong? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Key here is that Baggio doesn't seem to be able to analyse play very well. Plus he's over-analysing Ben Arfa on his first game back. I would think once he's had a chance to get used to playing again and knows his team mates better he'll improve some. FFS man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 The key difference between HBA and Obertan is that the later played 90 minutes sunday while Hatem played less than 20 minutes... If anything that should be better for Ben Arfa as he was fresh playing against tired players, yet... What I wanted to say : 1/ In 90 minutes, you have more time and opportunities to create something. HBA was fresh yes, but he came on when the match intensity was at it highest 2/ HBA game has multiple facets, not only runing at players, and 20 minutes are not enough to show the full range of his unpredictable style of play (Andy is right, he is a fear player) 3/ If you like Baggio, you will like HBA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Key here is that Baggio doesn't seem to be able to analyse play very well. Plus he's over-analysing Ben Arfa on his first game back. I would think once he's had a chance to get used to playing again and knows his team mates better he'll improve some. FFS man. How have I over analysed his first game back? I have made no comment on his long term ability or how good he will be when he gets up to speed and starts on a regular basis, I'm simply pointing out he wasn't up to much against Spurs, an opinion other on here agree with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Key here is that Baggio doesn't seem to be able to analyse play very well. Plus he's over-analysing Ben Arfa on his first game back. I would think once he's had a chance to get used to playing again and knows his team mates better he'll improve some. FFS man. How have I over analysed his first game back? I have made no comment on his long term ability or how good he will be when he gets up to speed and starts on a regular basis, I'm simply pointing out he wasn't up to much against Spurs, an opinion other on here agree with. My bad then. I haven't read much of the thread, just the last few posts in which you appeared quite critical. FWIW, I didn't think he did so well against Spurs either but he still looks somewhat rusty to me. I'm sure he'll mesh a lot better with a few games under his belt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugazi Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Is Ben Arfa immune to criticism on here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Miss placed and inaccurate criticism. Yeah? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugazi Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 So he didn't hold onto the ball/try to do too much at times on Saturday? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 1 or 2 times when in the wrong position to do so. What you call 'doing too much' is exactly how he should be playing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugazi Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Being ball-greedy when there's a simple pass on is how he should be playing? Righto... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 So he didn't hold onto the ball/try to do too much at times on Saturday? If he's still doing that in two months time then you can say you were right. I don't think it was that shocking that he got caught a couple of times after such a long lay off. Dan Gosling looked similarly off the pace when he made his comeback appearance against a championship team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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