Taylor Swift Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Why do we need someone like Best to hold the ball up? vPersie does not hold the ball up for Arsenal and yet they're able to score a shit ton of goals playing a 4-5-1. Torres for Liverpool wasn't the bruising-back-against-the-goal-hold-up-the-play striker, he was more the hanging on the last man's shoulder striker yet they had their most successful league season in 20+ years with Gerrard playing behind him. Who's holding the ball up for Man Utd these days? Oh wait, they've got Wellbeck running the channels and Rooney playing as a CM yet they're still able to score goals. Why can't Ben Arfa and Ba combine together when Ben Arfa is a creative midfielder who's main ability is to create for others? I would think that Ba would be even more effective with someone creating for him, and I don't see why it would make Ba easier to defend because Ben Arfa typically takes two or three defenders to contain. Ben Arfa is the type of player that creates space for everyone else on the pitch. His presence on the pitch will change the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Felipao is talking a lot of sense here. Ben Arfa has played, I think, about 180 minutes in total in the Premiership so far in his whole career. One hundred and eighty f***ing minutes. And some people are writing him off, saying he shouldn't be played in his favorite position, saying Best should start over him etc. What a load of absolute rubbish. I don't think I've read more nonsense in a long, long time. Ben Arfa is good enough to build a whole team around. He's the difference between ending up in 7th and possibly challenging for 4th. No one else in our squad has the talent that he does. There are doubts about him mentally but to write him off after essentially only two matches is one of the daftest things that I've ever read on here. A large portion of the recent pages in this thread will be in time as funny as 'Joke Enrique' is now. I mean, seriously, you're writing a player who many people would say is arguably the best player of his country's generation off after basically two matches? Are you shittin me? And preferring Leon Best over him? No one's sure whether he's the player he was before but to be concluding that he can't play in our team or that he won't fit in our formation without actually giving him a run of games is completely retarded and is a sign of extreme bias/close-mindedness. There's a chance that he's lost a yard of pace or whatever but to not even give him a chance and to prefer someone like Best over him is mind-boggling. It's like ruling out Drogba after his first season where he didn't get many goals, or ruling out Vidic after his first six months. If you're a baby and want instant gratification then buy a f***ing lollipop. Best and Ba are doing well and we're 3rd in the league. There's absolutely no reason to drop Best for a player who can't play the same role. I know you love Best but he's a limited player. He works hard and I like him but we will be a better team with Ben Arfa in place of him. Best has decent games where he's effective then other games - like against Spurs and Wigan - where he's completely ineffective and now when he goalscoring touch deserts him, his presence on the pitch can become a negative for us. If he was scoring or looking like scoring then I wouldn't be talking about this at all but he hasn't, and we haven't been able to create too many clear cut chances for a variety of reasons, which is something that someone like Ben Arfa can fix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 If it wasn't for the fact we had some top wingers, I could see Ba & HBA just off Best, with Tiote, Cabaye & another as a midfield three. Could Jonas do that role maybe? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Felipao is talking a lot of sense here. Ben Arfa has played, I think, about 180 minutes in total in the Premiership so far in his whole career. One hundred and eighty f***ing minutes. And some people are writing him off, saying he shouldn't be played in his favorite position, saying Best should start over him etc. What a load of absolute rubbish. I don't think I've read more nonsense in a long, long time. Ben Arfa is good enough to build a whole team around. He's the difference between ending up in 7th and possibly challenging for 4th. No one else in our squad has the talent that he does. There are doubts about him mentally but to write him off after essentially only two matches is one of the daftest things that I've ever read on here. A large portion of the recent pages in this thread will be in time as funny as 'Joke Enrique' is now. I mean, seriously, you're writing a player who many people would say is arguably the best player of his country's generation off after basically two matches? Are you shittin me? And preferring Leon Best over him? No one's sure whether he's the player he was before but to be concluding that he can't play in our team or that he won't fit in our formation without actually giving him a run of games is completely retarded and is a sign of extreme bias/close-mindedness. There's a chance that he's lost a yard of pace or whatever but to not even give him a chance and to prefer someone like Best over him is mind-boggling. It's like ruling out Drogba after his first season where he didn't get many goals, or ruling out Vidic after his first six months. If you're a baby and want instant gratification then buy a f***ing lollipop. Best and Ba are doing well and we're 3rd in the league. There's absolutely no reason to drop Best for a player who can't play the same role. Happily for Ben Arfa and...Newcastle, he can play another role than Best... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Ba and Ben Arfa both need someone to work off which is the problem with them as a partnership, both like to drop deep and Ba especially has had a lot of success working off what you would consider a big man up top, I'm not sure if people use the stereotype of him being a big, black athletic guy and just presume he plays the role because for anyone that's watched us this season or him at West Ham will see that's not his game at all, he's a player that likes to drop deep to win the ball and works off flick ons to get himself into shooting positions, these are things he won't get partnering Ben Arfa who will want to drop deep into the exact same positions. Best offers Ba that, not only that but as a central striker he relieves so much pressure from the team by being able to bring the ball down and use his strength to hold on to it while the quicker and more technical players catch up with play and gives the team a chance to get back into position, his ability to bring the ball down and hold off defenders is excellent and I never imagined I would say that about him, add to that his tireless work ethic in chasing down defenders and running the channels and you've got a very deserving player that's a bit of an unsung hero if anything. Someone mentioned his lack of goals but in the 9 league games he's played this season he's got 3 goals and 3 assists, if he can keep up that sort of consistency over the season I'll be more than happy with his efforts as Ba is the main goalscorer in the team, not Best. Just for the record I don't see anyone saying Best is a better individual than Ben Arfa, it goes without saying who is the better individual talent however there are so many question marks over Ben Arfa's ability to link up with Ba and to even play this number 10 role effectively that Pardew would be mad to change it any time soon. Yeah think it may have to be Ben Arfa or Ba rather than together, or stick Ben Arfa out wide, I agree inferior position, and I've argued against it but not a terrible idea really. You mean it should be Best along with either of our two best offensive players, instead of playing our two best offensive players together? It's football, you should always be able to accomodate your best players together. Like Gerrard and Lampard in midfield for England? The two best individuals don't automatically make the best partnerships. Both of them do the same thing. Ben Arfa and Ba don't. It's not a good comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TherealnorthernTOON Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 If it wasn't for the fact we had some top wingers, I could see Ba & HBA just off Best, with Tiote, Cabaye & another as a midfield three. Could Jonas do that role maybe? It's pretty much this. Just the way Chelsea plays. With Jonas in the ramirez role where he is a central midfielder in defence but moves up to link up in the hole/out wide for crosses when in attack. Really think he got the engine to do so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 We will never know if they can link-up or not if we don't play them together. I have no doubt that Ba can play off the last defender instead of dropping deep. I also think he wouldn't get as tired if he did, since he's running so much, he's knackered after 65-75minutes. Ba's goals have come from a position where nothing suggest he can't play there, as they have been from inside the box and not all of them have been from coming from deep. Against Blackburn he held up the ball and smashed it and why wouldn't he be able to do it on a regular basis? I feel its more that Pardew wants him to drop deep since Best won't to the same degree, but nothing suggest his game will not be as good if he doesn't drop deep. So not only do we want to split up a very good partnership to accommodate Ben Arfa but we also want a striker that has scored 8 goals in 9 league games this season and 15 in 21 in 2011 to change the style of play that has been very effective for him to accommodate the lad too? You'd honestly think we were talking about Gonzalo Higuain or someone of similiar ability. Ludicrous. Higuain Well done. Top stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 And again, I'm not saying you drop Best now or even when we have our first bad game. But in time it must be realized that Ben Arfa has to start because he has too much quality. Pardew's already hinted at this in his press conferences and his decisions - so he pretty much agrees with the people who say Ben Arfa should eventually start - and there's a pretty clear reason that he's done so: because Ben Arfa could be magic and it's the height of stupidity not to find out whether he is or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 And again, I'm not saying you drop Best now or even when we have our first bad game. The same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 We will never know if they can link-up or not if we don't play them together. I have no doubt that Ba can play off the last defender instead of dropping deep. I also think he wouldn't get as tired if he did, since he's running so much, he's knackered after 65-75minutes. Ba's goals have come from a position where nothing suggest he can't play there, as they have been from inside the box and not all of them have been from coming from deep. Against Blackburn he held up the ball and smashed it and why wouldn't he be able to do it on a regular basis? I feel its more that Pardew wants him to drop deep since Best won't to the same degree, but nothing suggest his game will not be as good if he doesn't drop deep. So not only do we want to split up a very good partnership to accommodate Ben Arfa but we also want a striker that has scored 8 goals in 9 league games this season and 15 in 21 in 2011 to change the style of play that has been very effective for him to accommodate the lad too? No, it's just that I don't agree with that's whats been working for him. He does more defensive work right now than he should, I don't see how playing Ben Arfa would change his offensive game. You move him higher up the field when defending instead of him tracking back the whole time. He hasn't played behind a striker, all his goals bar one or two have come from being inside the box, not from coming from deep. You can definitely let Ba play like he has been without the tracking back and accomodate Ben Arfa. No doubt about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Ba and Ben Arfa both need someone to work off which is the problem with them as a partnership, both like to drop deep and Ba especially has had a lot of success working off what you would consider a big man up top, I'm not sure if people use the stereotype of him being a big, black athletic guy and just presume he plays the role because for anyone that's watched us this season or him at West Ham will see that's not his game at all, he's a player that likes to drop deep to win the ball and works off flick ons to get himself into shooting positions, these are things he won't get partnering Ben Arfa who will want to drop deep into the exact same positions. Best offers Ba that, not only that but as a central striker he relieves so much pressure from the team by being able to bring the ball down and use his strength to hold on to it while the quicker and more technical players catch up with play and gives the team a chance to get back into position, his ability to bring the ball down and hold off defenders is excellent and I never imagined I would say that about him, add to that his tireless work ethic in chasing down defenders and running the channels and you've got a very deserving player that's a bit of an unsung hero if anything. Someone mentioned his lack of goals but in the 9 league games he's played this season he's got 3 goals and 3 assists, if he can keep up that sort of consistency over the season I'll be more than happy with his efforts as Ba is the main goalscorer in the team, not Best. Just for the record I don't see anyone saying Best is a better individual than Ben Arfa, it goes without saying who is the better individual talent however there are so many question marks over Ben Arfa's ability to link up with Ba and to even play this number 10 role effectively that Pardew would be mad to change it any time soon. I fall into the Ben Arfa 'fan boy' camp, but I agree wtih quite a few points, I feel Ba has can play higher up the pitch as well though. He didn't seem to be dropping quite so deep against Stoke and he more than held his own against their meathead back 4. His link up play was much better than usual with his back to goal, held the ball up really well, played some nice passes and little lay offs after shielding the ball. By all accounts, he did well and worked his bollocks off against Blackburn, on his own up top as well. When Ba plays with Best, he does tend to drop deep and I think he's instructed to, so far so good and I don't think it should be changed just yet. However, I would suggest Ba is versatile and good enough to be equally effective playing with HBA. From what I can see, he isn't as good as Besty in the air and maybe not quite as strong, but he still has the physical attributes and intelligence to do well with Hatem. Far too early for anyone to suggest they won't work together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 And again, I'm not saying you drop Best now or even when we have our first bad game. But in time it must be realized that Ben Arfa has to start because he has too much quality. Pardew's already hinted at this in his press conferences and his decisions - so he pretty much agrees with the people who say Ben Arfa should eventually start - and there's a pretty clear reason that he's done so: because Ben Arfa could be magic and it's the height of stupidity not to find out whether he is or not. Pip, I fully agree with you. But there's no way he should play, I mean Ba and Ben Arfa will never work and Best will win us the Champiooooons League. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Ba and Ben Arfa both need someone to work off which is the problem with them as a partnership, both like to drop deep and Ba especially has had a lot of success working off what you would consider a big man up top, I'm not sure if people use the stereotype of him being a big, black athletic guy and just presume he plays the role because for anyone that's watched us this season or him at West Ham will see that's not his game at all, he's a player that likes to drop deep to win the ball and works off flick ons to get himself into shooting positions, these are things he won't get partnering Ben Arfa who will want to drop deep into the exact same positions. Best offers Ba that, not only that but as a central striker he relieves so much pressure from the team by being able to bring the ball down and use his strength to hold on to it while the quicker and more technical players catch up with play and gives the team a chance to get back into position, his ability to bring the ball down and hold off defenders is excellent and I never imagined I would say that about him, add to that his tireless work ethic in chasing down defenders and running the channels and you've got a very deserving player that's a bit of an unsung hero if anything. Someone mentioned his lack of goals but in the 9 league games he's played this season he's got 3 goals and 3 assists, if he can keep up that sort of consistency over the season I'll be more than happy with his efforts as Ba is the main goalscorer in the team, not Best. Just for the record I don't see anyone saying Best is a better individual than Ben Arfa, it goes without saying who is the better individual talent however there are so many question marks over Ben Arfa's ability to link up with Ba and to even play this number 10 role effectively that Pardew would be mad to change it any time soon. I fall into the Ben Arfa 'fan boy' camp, but I agree wtih quite a few points, I feel Ba has can play higher up the pitch as well though. He didn't seem to be dropping quite so deep against Stoke and he more than held his own against their meathead back 4. His link up play was much better than usual with his back to goal, held the ball up really well, played some nice passes and little lay offs after shielding the ball. By all accounts, he did well and worked his bollocks off against Blackburn, on his own up top as well. When Ba plays with Best, he does tend to drop deep and I think he's instructed to, so far so good and I don't think it should be changed just yet. However, I would suggest Ba is versatile and good enough to be equally effective playing with HBA. From what I can see, he isn't as good as Besty in the air and maybe not quite as strong, but he still has the physical attributes and intelligence to do well with Hatem. Far too early for anyone to suggest they won't work together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Why do we need someone like Best to hold the ball up? vPersie does not hold the ball up for Arsenal and yet they're able to score a shit ton of goals playing a 4-5-1. Torres for Liverpool wasn't the bruising-back-against-the-goal-hold-up-the-play striker, he was more the hanging on the last man's shoulder striker yet they had their most successful league season in 20+ years with Gerrard playing behind him. Who's holding the ball up for Man Utd these days? Oh wait, they've got Wellbeck running the channels and Rooney playing as a CM yet they're still able to score goals. Why can't Ben Arfa and Ba combine together when Ben Arfa is a creative midfielder who's main ability is to create for others? I would think that Ba would be even more effective with someone creating for him, and I don't see why it would make Ba easier to defend because Ben Arfa typically takes two or three defenders to contain. Ben Arfa is the type of player that creates space for everyone else on the pitch. His presence on the pitch will change the game. The teams you've named would beat the majority of the league with 10 players, they don't need someone to hold the ball up up top to relieve pressure as they spend most of the game battering the opposition anyway, we're not one of these teams and for that reason we can't afford not to have a player like this as we've got no relief up top and every time we get rid of it the ball will be coming straight back at us. Just play him out on the right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest je85 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Ba and HBA both dropping deep no problem. We can play with two false 9s, Pardew's found a new tactical innovation, centre backs won't know where to go give it 6 months and everyone will be at it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 The reason they don't need someone to hold the ball up is because they have players who are good at controlling the ball and have good technique, so they are able to play the game in the opposition's half. Ben Arfa has sublime skills on the ball and is probably the player that is hardest to get the ball from because he's agile, quick and is so technically good. Ergo, we should play him, because like Jonas, he can help relieve pressure. There are many ways of relieving pressure. Players like Cabaye help us relieve pressure because they are composed on the ball and they don't give it away needlessly. Jonas helps us relieve pressure by being a willing runner with the ball and being someone who doesn't lose the ball without being fouled. Ben Arfa has the same skills as Jonas. He plays a riskier game but he's only done so when the risk was worth taking. I think you've come to a seriously fast conclusion on Ben Arfa's tendencies based on his eagerness to impress when he came on against Spurs, which is a shame because playing the likes of Ben Arfa and Marveaux is the best way to become a team that's able to maintain constant pressure on the opposition team, thus negating the need for a striker who can hold the ball up. You're heading into the wrong direction if you think we need to play Best to hold up the ball and relieve pressure. We need to play Ben Arfa because he's able to dribble past players with ease and by constantly doing this, defenders will back off and thus the pressure will be on the opposition, and not us. That's how we will become a good team. Doing the old having a big striker to hold up play thing isn't the solution and it's obvious that it isn't because none of the better footballing teams on the continent do this. Even a team like Chelsea, when they played Drogba alone up front, was much more technical and Drogba himself is extremely talented. Ba is far more like him than Best because Ba has good control, a decent turn of pace and is also willing to run the channels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I just don't understand this. Yes, let's bench a French international who has been a must-start for every team that he's played for his life - incidentally every team that he's played for his life was also better than our team is now - and start the hardworking but limited Leon Best. I actually really like Best so I'm kind of sad that I'm having to argue so vociferously for eventually dropping him, but it's mind-boggling that people would drop someone as technically good as Ben Arfa. Would you drop Mata or Silva because they don't work as hard Best? Of course you don't. These players help you control the game. You wouldn't drop Cabaye because he's a shit tackler, in the same way that Scholes wasn't dropped in big games because he wasn't a good tackler. Even Man Utd right now don't have a DM in their team because they want players who can control the ball and dominate possession. If Best was Zlatan then no one would be arguing for his benching but he's a limited player who's close control isn't the best. He's still a player that will contribute to our season, but playing Ben Arfa will make us a better team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I just don't understand this. Yes, let's bench a French international who has been a must-start for every team that he's played for his life - incidentally every team that he's played for his life was also better than our team is now - and start the hardworking but limited Leon Best. I actually really like Best so I'm kind of sad that I'm having to argue so vociferously for eventually dropping him, but it's mind-boggling that people would drop someone as technically good as Ben Arfa. Would you drop Mata or Silva because they don't work as hard Best? Of course you don't. These players help you control the game. You wouldn't drop Cabaye because he's a shit tackler, in the same way that Scholes wasn't dropped in big games because he wasn't a good tackler. Even Man Utd right now don't have a DM in their team because they want players who can control the ball and dominate possession. If Best was Zlatan then no one would be arguing for his benching but he's a limited player who's close control isn't the best. He's still a player that will contribute to our season, but playing Ben Arfa will make us a better team. Yep. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 The reason they don't need someone to hold the ball up is because they have players who are good at controlling the ball and have good technique, so they are able to play the game in the opposition's half. Ben Arfa has sublime skills on the ball and is probably the player that is hardest to get the ball from because he's agile, quick and is so technically good. Ergo, we should play him, because like Jonas, he can help relieve pressure. There are many ways of relieving pressure. Players like Cabaye help us relieve pressure because they are composed on the ball and they don't give it away needlessly. Jonas helps us relieve pressure by being a willing runner with the ball and being someone who doesn't lose the ball without being fouled. Ben Arfa has the same skills as Jonas. He plays a riskier game but he's only done so when the risk was worth taking. I think you've come to a seriously fast conclusion on Ben Arfa's tendencies based on his eagerness to impress when he came on against Spurs, which is a shame because playing the likes of Ben Arfa and Marveaux is the best way to become a team that's able to maintain constant pressure on the opposition team, thus negating the need for a striker who can hold the ball up. You're heading into the wrong direction if you think we need to play Best to hold up the ball and relieve pressure. We need to play Ben Arfa because he's able to dribble past players with ease and by constantly doing this, defenders will back off and thus the pressure will be on the opposition, and not us. That's how we will become a good team. Doing the old having a big striker to hold up play thing isn't the solution and it's obvious that it isn't because none of the better footballing teams on the continent do this. Even a team like Chelsea, when they played Drogba alone up front, was much more technical and Drogba himself is extremely talented. Ba is far more like him than Best because Ba has good control, a decent turn of pace and is also willing to run the channels. Drogba was excellent at relieving pressure for Chelsea and everything went through him being the head of the team so I'm not sure where you're going with that one. You say the better footballing teams in Europe do this but we're not one of them, we don't have the quality of players to be one of them and would get dissected if we tried to play that way, so we do what's effective for us and stick with the solid forward that soaks up all of the pressure and can bring our other players into play from there. If you look at how we played under Robson with Shearer relieving the pressure from the team with the quicker and technical players swarming around and it's similar to the role Best is playing now. Your opinion that Ben Arfa will dribble past players to relieve pressure is all well and good when it comes off but when it doesn't we're instantly back under pressure and that's how it's been for every game he's featured up top for us, is he suddenly going to stop giving the ball away when he's up to speed? Well no and people have already pointed out when defending him that you're going to have to accept that he's going to lose it a lot while trying to be creative. Shearer as the hold up man worked excellent, Drogba in that role worked for Chelsea, Adebayor is making that role work at Spurs and most importantly Best is making that role work for us and until it doesn't there is no reason at all to change it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 You look at our possession stats this year and it's markedly different from last year because we have players who are good at controlling the ball, even now that we don't have a dominating powerhouse striker like Carroll holding the ball up. Having players like Cabaye and Ba - players who can control the ball and keep possession under pressure - has meant that we're now in much more control of matches, and this is reflected in the amount of possession that we have. Even against Spurs, a team that keeps possession very well, we had more of it because we had players who were able to control the ball under pressure. The key to relieving pressure from the defence and creating pressure on the opposition is being able to maintain possession. Best's technique is limited, at least relative to other attacking players in our squad (Ben Arfa, Marveaux, Ba, Cabaye, Jonas), so even though he can get his head on balls that are hoofed up every now and then, he can't maintain that possession when he's pressured, whereas the likes of Ben Arfa and Marveaux obviously can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I just don't understand this. Yes, let's bench a French international who has been a must-start for every team that he's played for his life - incidentally every team that he's played for his life was also better than our team is now - and start the hardworking but limited Leon Best. I actually really like Best so I'm kind of sad that I'm having to argue so vociferously for eventually dropping him, but it's mind-boggling that people would drop someone as technically good as Ben Arfa. Would you drop Mata or Silva because they don't work as hard Best? Of course you don't. These players help you control the game. You wouldn't drop Cabaye because he's a shit tackler, in the same way that Scholes wasn't dropped in big games because he wasn't a good tackler. Even Man Utd right now don't have a DM in their team because they want players who can control the ball and dominate possession. If Best was Zlatan then no one would be arguing for his benching but he's a limited player who's close control isn't the best. He's still a player that will contribute to our season, but playing Ben Arfa will make us a better team. At the end of the day, when his chance comes and if he takes it, everyone will be very supportive. If he doesnt then people, including the silver fox, will continue to favour Besty. Just the way it is. Bit like the Santon situation. The screams for him to replace Taylor have died down, however when his chance comes he may defend well on his own and free up Jonas to attack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 but it's mind-boggling that people would drop someone as technically good as Ben Arfa. The most strange is when those people's avatars are among the best technicians in football history Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 but it's mind-boggling that people would drop someone as technically good as Ben Arfa. The most strange is when those people's avatars are among the best technicians in football history Agreed http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/avs/avatar_11377_1317765415.png Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 but it's mind-boggling that people would drop someone as technically good as Ben Arfa. The most strange is when those people's avatars are among the best technicians in football history Agreed http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/avs/avatar_11377_1317765415.png I was more thinking about our director of football or the sympathetic Ronaldo, not about "sapin de Noël" aka Ferguson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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