Are Mike and Del Boy Forgiven Now?

[Guest malandro]

That’ll be because th club's statements tend to be ambiguous, contradictory and confrontational. If they could just for once release a statement that clarified what is happening to NUFC a lot of the angst towards them would dissipate.  I've already said this once today.

 

I'd be interested to know if those who are saying supporters shouldn't care about the finances held the same view when FF was in charge.

 

 

 

 

From a supporter's view, so long as the club is running within it's budget and the on-field performances are improving, why do I need to know EXACTLY how much money the club has or hasn't got? It's irrelevant to how I'll support the team at the Blackpool match.

And is the club is being run within budget?

 

The evidence from the last 3 sets of accounts certainly suggests that it is headed that way.

 

the keegan court case revealed what they'd done. They can't be forgiven for that cos of one half decent transfer window. Hughton and the players sorted themselves out last season and theyre continuing that. Mike/Derek have nothing to take credit for in that regard imo.

 

Pointed out in the thread several times before, you can't crucify Ashley & Llambias for their mistakes but refuse to acknowledge them for the positive things to have come out over the past 18mths

Is that a yes or a no?

[Guest BooBoo]

I can sense the Keegan Bumming Brigade beginning to circle....

[quayside]

the keegan court case revealed what they'd done. They can't be forgiven for that cos of one half decent transfer window. Hughton and the players sorted themselves out last season and theyre continuing that. Mike/Derek have nothing to take credit for in that regard imo.

 

That's fair enough in some ways although allowing Hughton and the players the space to make it work deserves some credit imo. And yes the KK case was a shocking indictment of the way things had been done. The fact is that it took Keegan to walk out (constructively) to blow the lid on the way business was being done - but how confident are you that no other clubs are doing any of that sort of stuff with or without the manager's consent?

[JCONA]

Pointed out in the thread several times before, you can't crucify Ashley & Llambias for their mistakes but refuse to acknowledge them for the positive things to have come out over the past 18mths

I guess thats fair but i was just responding to the original post of "are they forgiven after the transfer window and our good start". I've always believed/said that Ashley has done some good things (i.e. debt situation) as I fully believe that we were heading for abyss under shepard

 

That's fair enough in some ways although allowing Hughton and the players the space to make it work deserves some credit imo.

They put the club up for sale and left hughton to sort the s*** out himself. When it became apparent what a great job hughton/the players were doing it was back off the market and "yeah we'll get through this (again)". They/we were lucky that hughton made good work of "the space".

 

but how confident are you that no other clubs are doing any of that sort of stuff with or without the manager's consent?

not confident at all! but I don't think it could be ever be to the degree they went to..

[ohmelads]

They've made a decent fist of this transfer window and the club is not the circus that it was, but the rebuilding is still happening and they will be judged on how that pans out. They're rebuilding a mess they largely created and until that's done and there's genuine progress, the jury's out.

 

I still believe from all their comments that their blueprint is to make us a bit of a West Ham, a selling club who produce or find young talent and sell them on at a profit. It's not an ambitious model and I think their original plan, naive as it sounds, was to come here and make a quick buck. Now, that's turned to clawing back his money. Long term, I'd love us to have a new owner.

 

But credit where it's due, I think they have given the manager a fighting chance this time around, and I have confidence in this squad to stay up. More of the same in January would be good, but you always feel with these guys that they're ready to drop a major bollock at any time.

[mrmojorisin75]

The evidence from the last 3 sets of accounts certainly suggests that it is headed that way.

 

seriously i don't follow this shit so tell me; how much is the club in debt to ashley in interest free loans, and if the club is to break even within 5 years is that achievable without flogging off squad assets to pay ashley back?

 

i might be wrong but i think this is what malandro is getting at, it's certainly what i'm most interested in anyways

 

it does seem like absolute dreamland to think we could stay competitive, or indeed improve year on year on the pitch for the next 5 years and pay off 100m+ in loans if that's what they still are

 

not directed just to Stu, to anyone who can answer really as for me if all investment in players comes from turnover and the club is paying say 20m a season to ashley we'll be looking at 5 years of trying to steal goslings from other clubs and pick up free's / disenchanted ben arfa types before we see any actual investment

[High Five o]

The dept to Mike is to be repayed from a buyer if he sell in the future as i think.

No way it can be done another way.

 

Break even mean that we will show 0 or a profit on the account for that year as far as i understand.

So we need to gain revenue or cut costs to get a est £30 mill into the budget to break even.

[NJS]

There are still only 4 humans whose death I would be glad to see and Ashley and Llambias are two of them.

 

 

(Wise and Thatcher being the other two).

 

 

[Doug]

There are still only 4 humans whose death I would be glad to see and Ashley and Llambias are two of them.

 

 

(Wise and Thatcher being the other two).

 

 

Harsh.

Except Thatcher of course.

[Cunning_Linguist]

Summary:

 

They made mistakes but they are in the past.

 

To all the Haters:

 

Instead of dwelling on the past I think that all the haters should just grow a pair and get over it and look forward to a brighter future than what we would have had if FF was still in charge!

 

[/rant]

[Liam Liam Liam O]

The evidence from the last 3 sets of accounts certainly suggests that it is headed that way.

 

seriously i don't follow this shit so tell me; how much is the club in debt to ashley in interest free loans, and if the club is to break even within 5 years is that achievable without flogging off squad assets to pay ashley back?

 

i might be wrong but i think this is what malandro is getting at, it's certainly what i'm most interested in anyways

 

it does seem like absolute dreamland to think we could stay competitive, or indeed improve year on year on the pitch for the next 5 years and pay off 100m+ in loans if that's what they still are

 

not directed just to Stu, to anyone who can answer really as for me if all investment in players comes from turnover and the club is paying say 20m a season to ashley we'll be looking at 5 years of trying to steal goslings from other clubs and pick up free's / disenchanted ben arfa types before we see any actual investment

 

Break even means not be loss making rather than clear all of the debt.

[mrmojorisin75]

 

Break even means not be loss making rather than clear all of the debt.

 

ok makes sense, hadn't really thought too much about it (as usual)

 

actually surprised it'll take 5 years if the ashley loans aren't included then

[High Five o]

 

Break even means not be loss making rather than clear all of the debt.

 

ok makes sense, hadn't really thought too much about it (as usual)

 

actually surprised it'll take 5 years if the ashley loans aren't included then

 

Maybe they have taken some modest transfer fees in account?

 

I guess it take some time to turn a 30mill loss to break even anyway.

[Guest malandro]

 

Break even means not be loss making rather than clear all of the debt.

 

ok makes sense, hadn't really thought too much about it (as usual)

 

actually surprised it'll take 5 years if the ashley loans aren't included then

 

Maybe they have taken some modest transfer fees in account?

 

I guess it take some time to turn a 30mill loss to break even anyway.

Especially when there’s an extra £35m-£40m of TV money coming into the club this season.

 

Cue, somebody claiming it’s not exactly £35m-£40m but failing to say how much it is.

 

[mrmojorisin75]

Especially when there’s an extra £35m-£40m of TV money coming into the club this season.

Cue, somebody claiming it’s not exactly £35m-£40 but failing to say how much it is.

clearly i'm no expert but would have thought, as you say, if they were planning for 5 years on current increased TV deal rates then there'd actually have been more to spend on players...especially as our wages reduced a lot post-relegation

[Flip]

I'm actually happy seeing the safe game played by Mike.

 

If it doesn't work well till January I think he'll have some money to improve the squad.

 

There's no point in improving the squad without testing this squad. In the end it could just mean paying high wages to players who'll turn shit.

 

Its a good way to go forward I believe, however Mike is not forgiven until he shows us that his plans for this club have worked and we're a top 7 club in 4-5 years.

[Stu]

Especially when theres an extra £35m-£40m of TV money coming into the club this season.

Cue, somebody claiming its not exactly £35m-£40 but failing to say how much it is.

clearly i'm no expert but would have thought, as you say, if they were planning for 5 years on current increased TV deal rates then there'd actually have been more to spend on players...especially as our wages reduced a lot post-relegation

 

Quick Question: do you budget for Premierleague income for 2011/2012?

[mrmojorisin75]

In the end it could just mean paying high wages to players who'll turn shit.

well, that applies anytime though doesn't it?

[mrmojorisin75]

Especially when theres an extra £35m-£40m of TV money coming into the club this season.

Cue, somebody claiming its not exactly £35m-£40 but failing to say how much it is.

clearly i'm no expert but would have thought, as you say, if they were planning for 5 years on current increased TV deal rates then there'd actually have been more to spend on players...especially as our wages reduced a lot post-relegation

 

Quick Question: do you budget for Premierleague income for 2011/2012?

 

I guess I wouldn't budget for the lot, but then I wouldn't budget for Championship money either.  Are you suggesting they're budgeting on Championship TV income or something like that?

 

If that's the case then assuming we stay up the club will break even much faster than 5 years.

[High Five o]

 

Break even means not be loss making rather than clear all of the debt.

 

ok makes sense, hadn't really thought too much about it (as usual)

 

actually surprised it'll take 5 years if the ashley loans aren't included then

 

Maybe they have taken some modest transfer fees in account?

 

I guess it take some time to turn a 30mill loss to break even anyway.

Especially when there’s an extra £35m-£40m of TV money coming into the club this season.

 

Cue, somebody claiming it’s not exactly £35m-£40 but failing to say how much it is.

 

 

Yes, but all nrs we are discussing is speculations.

If its so straight forward as -30 + 35+/- we are good.

 

However i reserve my judgement until the accounts are filed, and made public.

[Flip]

In the end it could just mean paying high wages to players who'll turn s***.

well, that applies anytime though doesn't it?

 

It surely does, but it means less panic signings and signing of players who havnt been watched.

 

I mean the more safe with the money you are the less likely you're just going to throw it at something directly.

[Stu]

Especially when theres an extra £35m-£40m of TV money coming into the club this season.

Cue, somebody claiming its not exactly £35m-£40 but failing to say how much it is.

clearly i'm no expert but would have thought, as you say, if they were planning for 5 years on current increased TV deal rates then there'd actually have been more to spend on players...especially as our wages reduced a lot post-relegation

 

Quick Question: do you budget for Premierleague income for 2011/2012?

 

I guess I wouldn't budget for the lot, but then I wouldn't budget for Championship money either.  Are you suggesting they're budgeting on Championship TV income or something like that?

 

If that's the case then assuming we stay up the club will break even much faster than 5 years.

 

I'm not suggesting anything, I'm just wondering which figures people are using in their head when suggesting we'll break even this season/next season/ten seasons/etc. Naturally, if the club is working on a championship budget for 2011/12 and we stay up this season, we may find a bit of extra cash in January this season or next summer's transfer window.

[mrmojorisin75]

I'm not suggesting anything, I'm just wondering which figures people are using in their head when suggesting we'll break even this season/next season/ten seasons/etc. Naturally, if the club is working on a championship budget for 2011/12 and we stay up this season, we may find a bit of extra cash in January this season or next summer's transfer window.

 

mmmm, i think that's fair comment tbh and perhaps quite likely - planning on only a % of PL income over and above CCC income and then if the club stays up then that'll have a knock-on effect to the next years plan and so on...most plans are only as good as the next revision anyway

 

 

[Liam Liam Liam O]

 

Break even means not be loss making rather than clear all of the debt.

 

ok makes sense, hadn't really thought too much about it (as usual)

 

actually surprised it'll take 5 years if the ashley loans aren't included then

 

Maybe they have taken some modest transfer fees in account?

 

I guess it take some time to turn a 30mill loss to break even anyway.

Especially when there’s an extra £35m-£40m of TV money coming into the club this season.

 

Cue, somebody claiming it’s not exactly £35m-£40m but failing to say how much it is.

 

 

Total media revenue was only £37m the season went down. Unless we got none last year I struggle to see how we're going to get an additional £35m-£40m this year.

[mrmojorisin75]

 

Break even means not be loss making rather than clear all of the debt.

 

ok makes sense, hadn't really thought too much about it (as usual)

 

actually surprised it'll take 5 years if the ashley loans aren't included then

 

Maybe they have taken some modest transfer fees in account?

 

I guess it take some time to turn a 30mill loss to break even anyway.

Especially when there’s an extra £35m-£40m of TV money coming into the club this season.

 

Cue, somebody claiming it’s not exactly £35m-£40m but failing to say how much it is.

 

 

Total media revenue was only £37m the season went down.  Unless we got none last year I struggle to see how we're going to get an additional £35m-£40m this year.

 

he's saying the new TV deal kicking in has increased it isn't he?  or maybe not