Are Mike and Del Boy Forgiven Now?

[Liam Liam Liam O]

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2010/05/16/the-premier-league-where-the-money-went-in-2009-10/

[Liam Liam Liam O]

 

Break even means not be loss making rather than clear all of the debt.

 

ok makes sense, hadn't really thought too much about it (as usual)

 

actually surprised it'll take 5 years if the ashley loans aren't included then

 

Maybe they have taken some modest transfer fees in account?

 

I guess it take some time to turn a 30mill loss to break even anyway.

Especially when theres an extra £35m-£40m of TV money coming into the club this season.

 

Cue, somebody claiming its not exactly £35m-£40m but failing to say how much it is.

 

 

Total media revenue was only £37m the season went down.  Unless we got none last year I struggle to see how we're going to get an additional £35m-£40m this year.

 

he's saying the new TV deal kicking in has increased it isn't he?  or maybe not

 

For it to be extra it will have to be extra in excess of the £12m parachute payment we got last year as well obviously.

[mrmojorisin75]

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2010/05/16/the-premier-league-where-the-money-went-in-2009-10/

so last season (when we were in the CCC) the bottom PL team was guaranteed 24m basic, and as of this season they're guaranteed about 40m?

 

in a nutshell

 

 

[Guest malandro]

Especially when there’s an extra £35m-£40m of TV money coming into the club this season.

Cue, somebody claiming it’s not exactly £35m-£40 but failing to say how much it is.

clearly i'm no expert but would have thought, as you say, if they were planning for 5 years on current increased TV deal rates then there'd actually have been more to spend on players...especially as our wages reduced a lot post-relegation

I’m fairly certain the club will be just about breaking even this season and (as you said) that the five year break even plan includes loan repayments and we are looking at another four years of scouring the globe for players in contractual disputes. However, let’s assume I’m totally wrong and look at the alternative.

 

If we are operating at a loss this season how will the shortfall be made up, and with the club already about £150m in debt how much more debt can it afford to take on? And more importantly what is the strategy for dealing with the debt in four years time if it carries on increasing until then?

 

Stu was claiming yesterday that supporters should be happy as long as we are signing some players and operating within budget. If the five year “break even” plan doesn’t include some kind of loan repayment we’ll have been running at a loss for eight consecutive years under the stewardship of Mr Ashley. Presumably Stu is up in arms about this.

 

[mrmojorisin75]

Stu was claiming yesterday that supporters should be happy as long as we are signing some players and operating within budget. If the five year “break even” plan doesn’t include some kind of loan repayment we’ll have been running at a loss for eight consecutive years under the stewardship of Mr Ashley. Presumably Stu is up in arms about this.

weeeeell isn't the thing that the loans to ashley are basically added to "the price of the club" when it's sold rather than something they're intending recouping from revenue incrementally?

[Liam Liam Liam O]

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2010/05/16/the-premier-league-where-the-money-went-in-2009-10/

so last season (when we were in the CCC) the bottom PL team was guaranteed 24m basic, and as of this season they're guaranteed about 40m?

 

in a nutshell

 

 

 

 

So the extra revenue will be

 

Approx £40m revenue

less: £12m parachute payment

less: whatever media money we received this year.

 

Not really £35m-£40m extra at all, unless we do spectacularly well.

[Guest malandro]

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2010/05/16/the-premier-league-where-the-money-went-in-2009-10/

so last season (when we were in the CCC) the bottom PL team was guaranteed 24m basic, and as of this season they're guaranteed about 40m?

 

in a nutshell

 

 

That’s what it says.

The new deal is estimated to be worth and extra £7m basic to every club. Add that to the £37m we got the last time we were in the PL and you get a total of £44m. I’m not claiming these figures are anything other than ball park, but as I have already mentioned Llambias himself claimed relegation cost the club £50m which does fit in.

 

[midds]

When and how would that money be given to us? I'm assuming there would be some type of lump sum followed by several smaller payments over the course of the season but I've got absolutely no idea. 

[Liam Liam Liam O]

When and how would that money be given to us? I'm assuming there would be some type of lump sum followed by several smaller payments over the course of the season but I've got absolutely no idea. 

 

It's paid straight into the Sports Direct current account by BACS transfer.

[mrmojorisin75]

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2010/05/16/the-premier-league-where-the-money-went-in-2009-10/

so last season (when we were in the CCC) the bottom PL team was guaranteed 24m basic, and as of this season they're guaranteed about 40m?

 

in a nutshell

 

 

That’s what it says.

The new deal is estimated to be worth and extra £7m basic to every club. Add that to the £37m we got the last time we were in the PL and you get a total of £44m. I’m not claiming these figures are anything other than ball park, but as I have already mentioned Llambias himself claimed relegation cost the club £50m which does fit in.

 

 

how much was the CCC TV money then? the increase ballpark-wise then is: 44m - 12m parachute - CCC money = the increase

 

essentially you're saying the CCC money was virtually nothing then?

[mrmojorisin75]

When and how would that money be given to us? I'm assuming there would be some type of lump sum followed by several smaller payments over the course of the season but I've got absolutely no idea. 

 

It's paid straight into the Sports Direct current account by BACS transfer.

 

[Optimistic Nut]

Does it matter if they're forgiven or not as long as they're running the club properly now which appears to be the case for the past 12 months? I don't think so.

[Guest malandro]

When and how would that money be given to us? I'm assuming there would be some type of lump sum followed by several smaller payments over the course of the season but I've got absolutely no idea. 

Me neither, but be it in a lump sum or in instalments it’ll be in the club’s accounts by the end of the relevant accounting period won’t it?

 

It would interesting for those who are insisting we will be operating at loss season to have a stab at telling us how much that loss will be and how they arrived at this figure.

[Stu]

When and how would that money be given to us? I'm assuming there would be some type of lump sum followed by several smaller payments over the course of the season but I've got absolutely no idea. 

 

It's paid straight into the Sports Direct current account by BACS transfer.

 

 

Think Mike would offer the £20 for CHAPS

[midds]

When and how would that money be given to us? I'm assuming there would be some type of lump sum followed by several smaller payments over the course of the season but I've got absolutely no idea. 

Me neither, but be it in a lump sum or in instalments it’ll be in the club’s accounts by the end of the relevant accounting period won’t it?

 

It would interesting for those who are insisting we will be operating at loss season to have a stab at telling us how much that loss will be and how they arrived at this figure.

 

As I said I've got no idea.

 

I always saw the newly promoted teams having a go by spending a bit of cash after promotion and thought they were spending this new pot of cash given to them by the PL.

 

[Liam Liam Liam O]

When and how would that money be given to us? I'm assuming there would be some type of lump sum followed by several smaller payments over the course of the season but I've got absolutely no idea. 

 

It's paid straight into the Sports Direct current account by BACS transfer.

 

 

Think Mike would offer the £20 for CHIPS

 

Probably because he's a fat cockney bastard.

[midds]

When and how would that money be given to us? I'm assuming there would be some type of lump sum followed by several smaller payments over the course of the season but I've got absolutely no idea. 

 

It's paid straight into the Sports Direct current account by BACS transfer.

 

 

Seriously though, does anyone know? 

[Guest malandro]

Does it matter if they're forgiven or not as long as they're running the club properly now which appears to be the case for the past 12 months? I don't think so.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/8595165.stm

 

About £7m apparently. The same article claims promotion is worth an extra £30m-£40m.

 

[Guest malandro]

When and how would that money be given to us? I'm assuming there would be some type of lump sum followed by several smaller payments over the course of the season but I've got absolutely no idea. 

 

 

It's paid straight into the Sports Direct current account by BACS transfer.

 

 

Seriously though, does anyone know? 

No, but this article claims all clubs get a £7m instalment in January

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/dec/10/portsmouth-debts-premier-league-threat

[High Five o]

Ok, it say 7-8m in CCC, and 30m for bottom teams in PL, lets say 35m for Nufc.

 

+35m TV revenue -12m Paracute -8m CCC TV revenue = 15m increase

[Guest Wally_McFool]

Probably because he's a fat cockney bastard.

 

Careful now or else you'll have the rapidly growing army of Ashley's bum boys sniping at you. 

[quayside]

When and how would that money be given to us? I'm assuming there would be some type of lump sum followed by several smaller payments over the course of the season but I've got absolutely no idea. 

Me neither, but be it in a lump sum or in instalments itll be in the clubs accounts by the end of the relevant accounting period wont it?

 

It would interesting for those who are insisting we will be operating at loss season to have a stab at telling us how much that loss will be and how they arrived at this figure.

 

Well I won't insist on anything because there are far too many unknowns (not least of which is what our match day revenue will be this season) but as I said in an earlier post the last time we were in the Premiership our costs were £124 million. So you might assume we have cut say £20 million out of the costs since then, that would leave costs of £104 million for the year. After that it really depends on what you think our income will be.....Last time we were in the Premiership it was only £86 million but there are some improved deals in place in media revenues so, based on this very sketchy model, the question would be whether our income will be more or less than £104 million.....

[Stu]

Probably because he's a fat cockney bastard.

 

Careful now or else you'll have the rapidly growing army of Ashley's bum boys sniping at you.  

 

[Dave]

We don't get a parachute payment btw.

[Guest malandro]

Ok, it say 7-8m in CCC, and 30m for bottom teams in PL, lets say 35m for Nufc.

 

+35m TV revenue -12m Paracute -8m CCC TV revenue = 15m increase

OK so with a projected loss of £35m last season. An extra £15m for returning to the PL brings that down to £20m, but £4m on new players this summer and an extra four players on the payroll need to be added. At an average of £25kpw that’s an extra £5m a season. Giving an operating loss of just short of £30m this time around, and the year after that unless we get into Europe. Hard to see how we’ll ever break even. Say we reduce the losses by £7.5m million a year to break even in four years time, the club’s debt will have increased by £75m before we stop making losses.

 

Yes I know it’s not a water tight calculation but it shows that there are a lot of unanswered questions about what’s happening at the club and that turning a blind eye because we got HBA on loan and beat Villa 6-0 is a dubious position to take.