Guest BooBoo Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Yep, agreed Mick. I decided on his appointment, to give Pardew a chance and I'll still postpone judgement till the end of the season. There are worrying signs though. We are depleted through injuries, suspensions (discipline this season has been unacceptable) and selling Carroll but losing to a lower mid table side 0-4 is very concerning. The side that finished the game yesterday was weaker than our side from this time last season. The blame for that though lies firmly at Ashley's door and not Pardew or Hughton's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 It wasn't always onwards and upwards though. Prior to his sacking, we were racking up a series of worrying results. I didn't want him to be sacked but I was becoming very concerned, especially after the limp display at the Hawthorns. Pardew hasn't improved us but let's not reinvent history to say that Hughton would have taken us on any better. The signs were that we would have just been as inconsistent. I wasn't concerned. The team nearly always followed up a poor result with a good one under Hughton. We might have been as inconsistent this season, who knows. Pardew was brought in to improve us and that isn't happening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 those results are a thing of the past now under this charlatan WH? I'm not talking about big wins against garbage, I'm talking about great results against decent sides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 those results are a thing of the past now under this charlatan WH? I'm not talking about big wins against garbage, I'm talking about great results against decent sides. Arse 4-4 after being 4-0 down? Credit where it's due but at the end of the day, it's a point. 999 times out of 1000 it doesn't happen, it doesn't even happen if Diaby doesn't lose his head. Let's not pretend it was some sort of managerial genius when you've started the game by going 4-0 down in half an hour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Colin- if you weren't concerned after the two games at Bolton and WBA where we looked a complete rabble (a la yesterday) then.....well let's just say I admire your optimism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Colin- if you weren't concerned after the two games at Bolton and WBA where we looked a complete rabble (a la yesterday) then.....well let's just say I admire your optimism. I could probably pick two games from every club in the league where they've looked like that though. Couldn't you? That's football, surely? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Pardew is tactically better than Hughton,but he is playing with a far inferior squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Of course, but to me it looked like a side whose early season momentum had evaporated and we looked like relegation fodder. That's what concerns me about next season. We won't start the season with the adrenaline of this year and if we get off to a bad start, it could all get mesh quite quickly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Pardew is tactically better than Hughton,but he is playing with a far inferior squad. Don't see it myself. Give Pardew the same team, I don't believe he'd be able to go to Arsenal and win. Since Liverpool, where he picked Hughton's first choice XI, he's only beaten Wigan, West Ham and Birmingham. Surely the mark of a good tactician is to make the team better than the sum of its parts, not just to be able to beat the poorest teams in the league. Consistently surrendering leads and giving away late goals is also the mark of someone with shit tactics imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 The only significant "problem" with Hughton as far as I could see was the expectations built up in the minds of fans who saw our performances against Arsenal/Sunderland/Everton/Villa and set those as the bar. Anything less was unacceptable - forgetting it was our first season back with a poor (and small) squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Yep, agreed Mick. I decided on his appointment, to give Pardew a chance and I'll still postpone judgement till the end of the season. There are worrying signs though. We are depleted through injuries, suspensions (discipline this season has been unacceptable) and selling Carroll but losing to a lower mid table side 0-4 is very concerning. The side that finished the game yesterday was weaker than our side from this time last season. The blame for that though lies firmly at Ashley's door and not Pardew or Hughton's. I decided not to give him a chance as whatever I decide will have no impact on how he does or how long he lasts. If I think something is wrong then I'll say so and I actually thought that he looked like a good up and coming manager while he was at Reading. I know everybody claims they have a mate who supports some club or another but I did have a mate who was a West Ham fan. I got to understand how much he hated what Pardew was doing to his club. Virtually every Monday morning was the same shit about him. How he had good players who he was refusing to play because he hadn’t brought them to the club and he was doing that to the determent of the club. He was accused of putting his own ego before the good of the club by some of his own supporters. I also remembered how it was claimed that he’d lost the dressing room because of his ego and that seems to have been something which has followed him around at clubs. I can see the same thing happening here, our highly talked about team spirit seems to be going down the plug hole at an alarming rate of knots. I’m not going to support him while things he’s costing us points and doing things at the club which I believe is going to set us back, even if it isn’t at this time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Colin- if you weren't concerned after the two games at Bolton and WBA where we looked a complete rabble (a la yesterday) then.....well let's just say I admire your optimism. We followed up each of those results with a good one though as we did most of the time under Hughton, that's where my optimism came from. Fair play if you don't think so but for me it was onwards and upwards with Hughton and there were signs that he was becoming a very good manager for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Pretty much can't disagree with anything Otter has said in this lat couple of pages Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Pardew is tactically better than Hughton,but he is playing with a far inferior squad. Don't see it myself. Give Pardew the same team, I don't believe he'd be able to go to Arsenal and win. Since Liverpool, where he picked Hughton's first choice XI, he's only beaten Wigan, West Ham and Birmingham. Surely the mark of a good tactician is to make the team better than the sum of its parts, not just to be able to beat the poorest teams in the league. Consistently surrendering leads and giving away late goals is also the mark of someone with shit tactics imo. Couldn't have said it better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Fair enough, Hughton beat the likes of Arsenal, Everton and Villa, but how can he be labelled a "good tactician" when he then lost to West Brom, Bolton and Stoke? It comes down to the fact that points are points and you get no more beating Arsenal than you do beating Wolves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Pretty much can't agree with anything Otter has said in this lat couple of pages Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 I don't think we'd have won at Birmingham or held on for a draw vs Bolton under Hughton,I really don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Not if we get in 3-4 world class players We aren't going to sign world class players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Fair enough, Hughton beat the likes of Arsenal, Everton and Villa, but how can he be labelled a "good tactician" when he then lost to West Brom, Bolton and Stoke? It comes down to the fact that points are points and you get no more beating Arsenal than you do beating Wolves. You seem to forget that Bolton and Stoke are top ten sides and FA Cup semi finalists to boot. Bolton are competing for Europe and have lost two at home all season, exactly what gives us the right to think we should turn up there and beat them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Fair enough, Hughton beat the likes of Arsenal, Everton and Villa, but how can he be labelled a "good tactician" when he then lost to West Brom, Bolton and Stoke? It comes down to the fact that points are points and you get no more beating Arsenal than you do beating Wolves. You seem to forget that Bolton and Stoke are top ten sides and FA Cup semi finalists to boot. Bolton are competing for Europe and have lost two at home all season, exactly what gives us the right to think we should turn up there and beat them? Because we had a "good tactician" at the helm. Yet his teams those days just surrendered. Even if you lose a good team puts in some sort of effort/decent performance, yet on those occasions mentioned we may as well have stayed on the team coach (except for Perch like, he was needed in the Stoke game.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Fair enough, Hughton beat the likes of Arsenal, Everton and Villa, but how can he be labelled a "good tactician" when he then lost to West Brom, Bolton and Stoke? It comes down to the fact that points are points and you get no more beating Arsenal than you do beating Wolves. You seem to forget that Bolton and Stoke are top ten sides and FA Cup semi finalists to boot. Bolton are competing for Europe and have lost two at home all season, exactly what gives us the right to think we should turn up there and beat them? Because we had a "good tactician" at the helm. Yet his teams those days just surrendered. Even if you lose a good team puts in some sort of effort/decent performance, yet on those occasions mentioned we may as well have stayed on the team coach (except for Perch like, he was needed in the Stoke game.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 If the Blackpool, Stoke, Wigan, Blackburn, Bolton and West Brom games had happened under Pardew, there would have been hell on in this thread. There's no doubt about it in my mind. Neither are ideal managers but the worse Pardew seems to get, the better Hughton becomes. It's insane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Fair enough, Hughton beat the likes of Arsenal, Everton and Villa, but how can he be labelled a "good tactician" when he then lost to West Brom, Bolton and Stoke? It comes down to the fact that points are points and you get no more beating Arsenal than you do beating Wolves. You seem to forget that Bolton and Stoke are top ten sides and FA Cup semi finalists to boot. Bolton are competing for Europe and have lost two at home all season, exactly what gives us the right to think we should turn up there and beat them? Because we had a "good tactician" at the helm. Yet his teams those days just surrendered. Even if you lose a good team puts in some sort of effort/decent performance, yet on those occasions mentioned we may as well have stayed on the team coach (except for Perch like, he was needed in the Stoke game.) How is tactics anything to do with effort? You're contradicting yourself. Sometimes players have off days. Man Utd had one when they went to Wolves. Arsenal had two in quick succession when us and West Brom beat them on their own turf. That's football. A newly promoted team will have more than they will. It's not a cup where a poor result means you're finished, the point of having a league table is to try and minimize the amount of off days you have over 38 games - Hughton was good at this and usually followed up a poor performance with a decent one. Pardew is racking up the shite performances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Icke - Son of God Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Under Hughton you got the feeling that progress was being made. Even bad results could be forgiven because the spirit was so good around the team you genuinely felt that we'd be okay. Under Pardew I feel the complete opposite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 If the Blackpool, Stoke, Wigan, Blackburn, Bolton and West Brom games had happened under Pardew, there would have been hell on in this thread. There's no doubt about it in my mind. Neither are ideal managers but the worse Pardew seems to get, the better Hughton becomes. It's insane. Not true. Pardew has no bearing whatsoever on my views of Hughton. I haven't seen any evidence of what you are saying there from anyone actually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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