Alan Pardew

[Guest Deadmau5]

One thing I have reflected on a bit is how we base our entire strategy on a frankly shit defence.  So my first thought was to relieve it of as much pressure as possible, seeing as our midfield ( picked correctly) and our attack is possibly one of the best in the entire league ( City excepted).

The less they have to do, the better they will look. Instead we try to base our entire strategy on everyone else protecting the back four.

That doesnt adress the fact that when put under pressure, Simpson, Williamson,Raylor or Perch will end up being 1v1 against the best attackers in the league, and they will blow it - because they arent good enough.

 

If we had a back four of Mourinho-quality it would have made sense. Be impossible to break down and just counter with Ben arfa, Ba and Cisse lurking up the pitch. But with us its more likely to end up in tears and with a royal spanking against the better teams who put away their chances.

 

It has worked until now, but It simply isnt going to work over the long run.

[alpal78]

classic NO forum "debate" going on again:

 

Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run...

Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that

Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore

Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man

 

repeat until pardew is fired

 

We have a seasons worth of performances that show little correlation between possession/domination & results in comparison to the importance of simply having a very strong defensive system and attackers that will do enough to get the points. If teams have a very hard time scoring against you & you are good at putting the ball in the net, you will win games against most sides. Pardew has put in place the defensive system that achieves that & bought the attackers that do the business the other side.

 

In what way is it likely that this will suddenly stop working?

 

In contrast to our 'achievements' this season of playing the brand of football you just described, we have many seasons worth of performance (courtesy of the likes of Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and even Liverpool to some extent) that shows that if you do want to aim for Europe and higher, then possession football and dominating games (especially against weaker teams) is an absolute must. No team (to my memory at least) has played the type of football that we are playing and yet has proven to be consistently successful in qualifying for Europe which begs the question can we repeat this next season or is this a one season wonder?

 

Nobody is disputing that this model is currently working for us (at least to get 6th so far), but what many are saying is that if we continue using the same model and based on the experience of the other successful teams, then we will either screw up at the finishing line or find it difficult to repeat the same form next year. If you think this season's form can be repeated every season without changing our style of play, then we just fundamentally disagree and I dare say that your view would be contrary to the evidence displayed by all the top teams (defined as qualifying for Europe through league standings) over the last few seasons.

[mrmojorisin75]

classic NO forum "debate" going on again:

 

Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run...

Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that

Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore

Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man

 

repeat until pardew is fired

 

We have a seasons worth of performances that show little correlation between possession/domination & results in comparison to the importance of simply having a very strong defensive system and attackers that will do enough to get the points. If teams have a very hard time scoring against you & you are good at putting the ball in the net, you will win games against most sides. Pardew has put in place the defensive system that achieves that & bought the attackers that do the business the other side.

 

In what way is it likely that this will suddenly stop working?

 

In contrast to our 'achievements' this season of playing the brand of football you just described, we have many seasons worth of performance (courtesy of the likes of Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and even Liverpool to some extent) that shows that if you do want to aim for Europe and higher, then possession football and dominating games (especially against weaker teams) is an absolute must. No team (to my memory at least) has played the type of football that we are playing and yet has proven to be consistently successful in qualifying for Europe which begs the question can we repeat this next season or is this a one season wonder?

 

Nobody is disputing that this model is currently working for us (at least to get 6th so far), but what many are saying is that if we continue using the same model and based on the experience of the other successful teams, then we will either screw up at the finishing line or find it difficult to repeat the same form next year. If you think this season's form can be repeated every season without changing our style of play, then we just fundamentally disagree and I dare say that your view would be contrary to the evidence displayed by all the top teams (defined as qualifying for Europe through league standings) over the last few seasons.

 

awaiting response: but look at the results, we're 6th man!

[alpal78]

Out of all the one players who scored a goal in the game, one of them was  Newcastle player.

 

That's very relevant to the topic of passing, cheers.

 

Quite pertinent to the topic of winning football matches, which Alan Pardew (the perosn being discussed in this thread) is paid to do.  Just broadening the debate is all

 

I don't think anyone's debating that we won the game.

Could've fooled me.

 

We beat a confident Norwich side. Who don't forget, beat us 4-2 last time out.

 

The point discussed is how we seem to win games by solitary goals usually dependent on some outstanding play by one of of Cisse, Ba or HBA instead of teamwork with a coherent formation and tactics (unless you consider the hoofing in the second half as tactics). The problem with the model that we are adopting is that we don't dominate games and can at anytime lose/draw games that in theory we should/can win. It also gives us next to zero chance (Man Utd game aside) of taking points of the top 4-6 teams even at home, which is what we should be targeting if we are serious on getting into Europe. Maybe some will have to wait till we get a tonking from Liverpool for the penny to drop.

 

Dependant on outstanding play? Cant really say that in this example when Cisse missed more sitters than class goals he scored. We dont dominate games no, it hasnt made us less likely to lose/draw games than we should win in theory. Look back at the season, bar unusual circumstances we pretty much win every game you'd expect under Pardew. I made a thread on this yesterday.

We definately do less well against the top 7 but its to be expected. Which games so far against them would you have expected more from us?

 

Swansea at home, Wolves at home, Sunderland at home, West Brom at home. Definately more points on offer in those games.

 

Wolves/Sunderland yeah & individual circumstances still decided those games. Swansea/Wbrom i wouldnt say we could have expected much more.

 

We drew 0-0 with Swansea and lost 2-3 against West Brom at home. Both teams currently ranked 8th and 12th respectively. Maybe we just have different expectations, if we are targeting Europe and beyond, using Pip's formula in the OP of the "Battle for 7th" thread, these are teams that we should be beating at home. I'm curious why you think we couldn't (shouldn't?) expect more than a total 1 point out of the potential 6 on offer??

 

You'd expect to win looking at them yeah. Swansea achieved their lowest poss all season in our game, went all out defence & theyre hard enough to score against when they dont do that as Man city found out. If you remember there was barely any space in the box atall, Ba had to do acrobatic overheads to get a shot that wasnt blocked & it was still saved. He also hit the post. Dont think we could have done much more.

 

West Brom was just our defense for me due to having 1 Cb. 2 goals should be enough to get points from a game. Only Spurs/Arsenal/Swansea have put 3 past wbrom all season & swansea needed a penalty. So that leaves 2 sides who managed it & theyre 2 of the best attacking sides in the league. Possible to do? Yes. But no chance can we expect it. We just conceded to many.

 

For the Swansea game, based on soccernet's stats, possession was 51% vs 49% in their favor. Perhaps they were ultra defensive, but this is even more reason to believe that the way to break down a resolute defence is not by lumping the ball forward but by playing passing the ball around and moving up as a team. You only need to see how the top teams do this when faced with such a defensive strategy. This is what we don't do which is why end up losing points that we could have won. Crucially out of the 22 shots we had, only 3 were on target which is what you get from percentage football ala Pardew.

 

You might have a point that against West Brom, it is our defence that screwed up. But once again out of 26 shots, only 5 were on target. This low percentage of shots of target is a clear symptom of percentage football where you just try to shoot even if in a crappy position as opposed to creating genuine chances (like one on ones) where it is harder to miss.

[arnonel]

watching the game in the second half let me know what it must feel like to support stoke. nothing really to get excited about, but hay................we might get a result.

[Guest neesy111]

watching the game in the second half let me know what it must feel like to support stoke. nothing really to get excited about, but hay................we might get a result.

 

I can't criticise Stoke for how they play considering the shite we had to watch 2nd half.

[Dave]

Very strange game yesterday. We started the game really well I thought (there was a definite emphasis on passing it around, and Krul and Williamson didn't hoof it in the first 15 mins at all), but as soon as we scored and the crowd got on Williamson's back for that insane moment in the first half, we seemed to lose confidence in our ability to pass it around. That being said, without playing well at all after that, we still could have easily scored another 3 or 4 goals.

 

All of the players did look shattered / low on confidence like (apart from Perch, who was immense, and Cisse).

 

With all that being said though, I was still disappointed when I left the game. Felt like we should have dominated more.

 

I agree in the past few months we haven't played good football, but the early signs yesterday was that we were trying to. So I'm not sure how much Pardew was to blame yesterday. It was clear in the first 15 mins that they were instructive to keep it down and pass it. The player's confidence seemed to revert them to hitting it long the longer the game wore on though.

 

I'd agree with that on balance. It's the manager's job to try and instil and maintain that confidence though. Reverting to awful football isn't the answer.

[mrmojorisin75]

I'd agree with that on balance. It's the manager's job to try and instil and maintain that confidence though. Reverting to awful football isn't the answer.

 

exactly!  people act like pardew is just an innocent bystander in events and can do nothing to alter the inevitable course of fate

 

it's his job

[Guest neesy111]

I'd agree with that on balance. It's the manager's job to try and instil and maintain that confidence though. Reverting to awful football isn't the answer.

 

exactly!  people act like pardew is just an innocent bystander in events and can do nothing to alter the inevitable course of fate

 

it's his job

 

Yeap, you get good confidence from a good result but imo you get just as much from when you are have played really well as a team.

[Optimistic Nut]

classic NO forum "debate" going on again:

 

Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run...

Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that

Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore

Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man

 

repeat until pardew is fired

 

We have a seasons worth of performances that show little correlation between possession/domination & results in comparison to the importance of simply having a very strong defensive system and attackers that will do enough to get the points. If teams have a very hard time scoring against you & you are good at putting the ball in the net, you will win games against most sides. Pardew has put in place the defensive system that achieves that & bought the attackers that do the business the other side.

 

In what way is it likely that this will suddenly stop working?

 

In contrast to our 'achievements' this season of playing the brand of football you just described, we have many seasons worth of performance (courtesy of the likes of Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and even Liverpool to some extent) that shows that if you do want to aim for Europe and higher, then possession football and dominating games (especially against weaker teams) is an absolute must. No team (to my memory at least) has played the type of football that we are playing and yet has proven to be consistently successful in qualifying for Europe which begs the question can we repeat this next season or is this a one season wonder?

 

Nobody is disputing that this model is currently working for us (at least to get 6th so far), but what many are saying is that if we continue using the same model and based on the experience of the other successful teams, then we will either screw up at the finishing line or find it difficult to repeat the same form next year. If you think this season's form can be repeated every season without changing our style of play, then we just fundamentally disagree and I dare say that your view would be contrary to the evidence displayed by all the top teams (defined as qualifying for Europe through league standings) over the last few seasons.

 

awaiting response: but look at the results, we're 6th man!

 

The teams you have mentioned there have been in the top 6 now for the best part of a decade, they've had the budget to buy players who can allow you to play attractive football.

 

In case we've forgotten, we've been out of the top 6 for 8 seasons now, been relegated, and yesterday had half a team of players who are arguably just better than Championship standard (Williamson, Simpson, Guthrie, Perch).

 

This season I wanted us to show signs of changing our style of football, which in drips and drabs we have done, and with the type of players we've signed, suggest we will evolve even further in the summer. I saw HTT yesterday highlight the fact Pardew had a go at HBA for not booting the ball away. I think that had more to do with who he gave the ball to (Williamson) in that position rather than the action itself. After the results we were getting early in the season, you can't really blame Pardew for keeping that sort of system. There's no guarantee whatsoever that we would be 6th if we had done.

 

I'm more than happy with the job he's done, and think when the likes of Simpson, Williamson, etc are fazed out of the starting XI next season with better, technical players, the style of football will improve even further.

 

Until then though, it's about getting the points and wins on the board that will get us into Europe, which he's doing, and has done brilliantly for the most part all season.

[Dr Venkman]

classic NO forum "debate" going on again:

 

Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run...

Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that

Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore

Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man

 

repeat until pardew is fired

 

We have a seasons worth of performances that show little correlation between possession/domination & results in comparison to the importance of simply having a very strong defensive system and attackers that will do enough to get the points. If teams have a very hard time scoring against you & you are good at putting the ball in the net, you will win games against most sides. Pardew has put in place the defensive system that achieves that & bought the attackers that do the business the other side.

 

In what way is it likely that this will suddenly stop working?

 

In contrast to our 'achievements' this season of playing the brand of football you just described, we have many seasons worth of performance (courtesy of the likes of Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and even Liverpool to some extent) that shows that if you do want to aim for Europe and higher, then possession football and dominating games (especially against weaker teams) is an absolute must. No team (to my memory at least) has played the type of football that we are playing and yet has proven to be consistently successful in qualifying for Europe which begs the question can we repeat this next season or is this a one season wonder?

 

Nobody is disputing that this model is currently working for us (at least to get 6th so far), but what many are saying is that if we continue using the same model and based on the experience of the other successful teams, then we will either screw up at the finishing line or find it difficult to repeat the same form next year. If you think this season's form can be repeated every season without changing our style of play, then we just fundamentally disagree and I dare say that your view would be contrary to the evidence displayed by all the top teams (defined as qualifying for Europe through league standings) over the last few seasons.

 

awaiting response: but look at the results, we're 6th man!

 

I'm more than happy with the job he's done, and think when the likes of Simpson, Williamson, etc are fazed out of the starting XI next season with better, technical players, the style of football will improve even further.

 

Until then though, it's about getting the points and wins on the board that will get us into Europe, which he's doing, and has done brilliantly for the most part all season.

 

This is fair enough. What are the chances of him changing philosophy though? And if we get a few injuries next season will we just revert back to this awful guff? The team ethos needs to be fundamentally changed if we are to progress any further under Pardew imo.

[Optimistic Nut]

classic NO forum "debate" going on again:

 

Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run...

Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that

Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore

Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man

 

repeat until pardew is fired

 

We have a seasons worth of performances that show little correlation between possession/domination & results in comparison to the importance of simply having a very strong defensive system and attackers that will do enough to get the points. If teams have a very hard time scoring against you & you are good at putting the ball in the net, you will win games against most sides. Pardew has put in place the defensive system that achieves that & bought the attackers that do the business the other side.

 

In what way is it likely that this will suddenly stop working?

 

In contrast to our 'achievements' this season of playing the brand of football you just described, we have many seasons worth of performance (courtesy of the likes of Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and even Liverpool to some extent) that shows that if you do want to aim for Europe and higher, then possession football and dominating games (especially against weaker teams) is an absolute must. No team (to my memory at least) has played the type of football that we are playing and yet has proven to be consistently successful in qualifying for Europe which begs the question can we repeat this next season or is this a one season wonder?

 

Nobody is disputing that this model is currently working for us (at least to get 6th so far), but what many are saying is that if we continue using the same model and based on the experience of the other successful teams, then we will either screw up at the finishing line or find it difficult to repeat the same form next year. If you think this season's form can be repeated every season without changing our style of play, then we just fundamentally disagree and I dare say that your view would be contrary to the evidence displayed by all the top teams (defined as qualifying for Europe through league standings) over the last few seasons.

 

awaiting response: but look at the results, we're 6th man!

 

I'm more than happy with the job he's done, and think when the likes of Simpson, Williamson, etc are fazed out of the starting XI next season with better, technical players, the style of football will improve even further.

 

Until then though, it's about getting the points and wins on the board that will get us into Europe, which he's doing, and has done brilliantly for the most part all season.

 

This is fair enough. What are the chances of him changing philosophy though? And if we get a few injuries next season will we just revert back to this awful guff? The team ethos needs to be fundamentally changed if we are to progress any further under Pardew imo.

 

I just feel the fact the likes of Nolan & Barton were replaced by Cabaye & Obertan (crap player but I think from the style of winger he is, you can see he wants to change), and the likes of Marveaux, Santon & Ba also, that when we have more quality to go with them, he'll play a better style of football.

[alpal78]

classic NO forum "debate" going on again:

 

Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run...

Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that

Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore

Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man

 

repeat until pardew is fired

 

We have a seasons worth of performances that show little correlation between possession/domination & results in comparison to the importance of simply having a very strong defensive system and attackers that will do enough to get the points. If teams have a very hard time scoring against you & you are good at putting the ball in the net, you will win games against most sides. Pardew has put in place the defensive system that achieves that & bought the attackers that do the business the other side.

 

In what way is it likely that this will suddenly stop working?

 

In contrast to our 'achievements' this season of playing the brand of football you just described, we have many seasons worth of performance (courtesy of the likes of Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and even Liverpool to some extent) that shows that if you do want to aim for Europe and higher, then possession football and dominating games (especially against weaker teams) is an absolute must. No team (to my memory at least) has played the type of football that we are playing and yet has proven to be consistently successful in qualifying for Europe which begs the question can we repeat this next season or is this a one season wonder?

 

Nobody is disputing that this model is currently working for us (at least to get 6th so far), but what many are saying is that if we continue using the same model and based on the experience of the other successful teams, then we will either screw up at the finishing line or find it difficult to repeat the same form next year. If you think this season's form can be repeated every season without changing our style of play, then we just fundamentally disagree and I dare say that your view would be contrary to the evidence displayed by all the top teams (defined as qualifying for Europe through league standings) over the last few seasons.

 

awaiting response: but look at the results, we're 6th man!

 

The teams you have mentioned there have been in the top 6 now for the best part of a decade, they've had the budget to buy players who can allow you to play attractive football.

 

In case we've forgotten, we've been out of the top 6 for 8 seasons now, been relegated, and yesterday had half a team of players who are arguably just better than Championship standard (Williamson, Simpson, Guthrie, Perch).

 

This season I wanted us to show signs of changing our style of football, which in drips and drabs we have done, and with the type of players we've signed, suggest we will evolve even further in the summer. I saw HTT yesterday highlight the fact Pardew had a go at HBA for not booting the ball away. I think that had more to do with who he gave the ball to (Williamson) in that position rather than the action itself. After the results we were getting early in the season, you can't really blame Pardew for keeping that sort of system. There's no guarantee whatsoever that we would be 6th if we had done.

 

I'm more than happy with the job he's done, and think when the likes of Simpson, Williamson, etc are fazed out of the starting XI next season with better, technical players, the style of football will improve even further.

 

Until then though, it's about getting the points and wins on the board that will get us into Europe, which he's doing, and has done brilliantly for the most part all season.

 

I do agree that we do have some really inferior players and from our first team, I would include the likes of Williamson, Simpson in that category with Perch and Guthrie as inferior backup players who also played yesterday. But the top teams aforementioned all have their weak links too and contrary to your point their teams don't consist of expensive superstars throughout, yet are able to play much better possession based football. It's a myth that you need 11 good technical players to play good football. I can excuse the likes of Willamson and Simpson hoofing the ball due to their limitations but I find it difficult to accept when the rest do that because that's a reflection of the manager's game plan as opposed to their ability. 

 

When you consider that we have the likes of Colo, Cabaye, Tiote, HBA, Ba, Cisse and to a lesser extent Jonas and Santon (that's 8 out of 10 outfield players), I find it difficult to believe that we are unable to play possession short passing football or at least better than the turgid hoofball that we are playing now

[Dr Venkman]

classic NO forum "debate" going on again:

 

Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run...

Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that

Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore

Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man

 

repeat until pardew is fired

 

We have a seasons worth of performances that show little correlation between possession/domination & results in comparison to the importance of simply having a very strong defensive system and attackers that will do enough to get the points. If teams have a very hard time scoring against you & you are good at putting the ball in the net, you will win games against most sides. Pardew has put in place the defensive system that achieves that & bought the attackers that do the business the other side.

 

In what way is it likely that this will suddenly stop working?

 

In contrast to our 'achievements' this season of playing the brand of football you just described, we have many seasons worth of performance (courtesy of the likes of Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and even Liverpool to some extent) that shows that if you do want to aim for Europe and higher, then possession football and dominating games (especially against weaker teams) is an absolute must. No team (to my memory at least) has played the type of football that we are playing and yet has proven to be consistently successful in qualifying for Europe which begs the question can we repeat this next season or is this a one season wonder?

 

Nobody is disputing that this model is currently working for us (at least to get 6th so far), but what many are saying is that if we continue using the same model and based on the experience of the other successful teams, then we will either screw up at the finishing line or find it difficult to repeat the same form next year. If you think this season's form can be repeated every season without changing our style of play, then we just fundamentally disagree and I dare say that your view would be contrary to the evidence displayed by all the top teams (defined as qualifying for Europe through league standings) over the last few seasons.

 

awaiting response: but look at the results, we're 6th man!

 

I'm more than happy with the job he's done, and think when the likes of Simpson, Williamson, etc are fazed out of the starting XI next season with better, technical players, the style of football will improve even further.

 

Until then though, it's about getting the points and wins on the board that will get us into Europe, which he's doing, and has done brilliantly for the most part all season.

 

This is fair enough. What are the chances of him changing philosophy though? And if we get a few injuries next season will we just revert back to this awful guff? The team ethos needs to be fundamentally changed if we are to progress any further under Pardew imo.

 

I just feel the fact the likes of Nolan & Barton were replaced by Cabaye & Obertan (crap player but I think from the style of winger he is, you can see he wants to change), and the likes of Marveaux, Santon & Ba also, that when we have more quality to go with them, he'll play a better style of football.

 

Just raises the whole debate of who has responsibility for bringing players in imo. We'll get the proof next season either way

[mrmojorisin75]

Until then though, it's about getting the points and wins on the board that will get us into Europe, which he's doing, and has done brilliantly for the most part all season.

 

at some point we're going to have to question if it's the right time for us to make it into europe?

[Guest neesy111]

Until then though, it's about getting the points and wins on the board that will get us into Europe, which he's doing, and has done brilliantly for the most part all season.

 

at some point we're going to have to question if it's the right time for us to make it into europe?

 

Play like we are we'll be knocked out in August as we'll face a good team as we have no coefficient points in europe now.

[Optimistic Nut]

Until then though, it's about getting the points and wins on the board that will get us into Europe, which he's doing, and has done brilliantly for the most part all season.

 

at some point we're going to have to question if it's the right time for us to make it into europe?

 

If we want to improve the football, being there will give us a far stronger position in the transfer market to replace our weaker players. This is the perfect time to get into Europe.

[Guest Deadmau5]

Going all turtle after 1-0 up is gonna work well in Europe isn`t it? 

 

On a serious note, if we are to play in europe - we need to fundamentally change the way we execute matches. Playing well for 15 minutes and hoofing it for 70 is going to be embarassing, both resultswise but also in terms of representing England.

[Parky]

classic NO forum "debate" going on again:

 

Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run...

Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that

Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore

Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man

 

repeat until pardew is fired

 

You're missing group C : Get rid, we've seen through the flim flam.

[Optimistic Nut]

classic NO forum "debate" going on again:

 

Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run...

Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that

Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore

Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man

 

repeat until pardew is fired

 

You're missing group C : Get rid, we've seen through the flim flam.

 

Going by some posters, that could easily just be Group A.

[mrmojorisin75]

Until then though, it's about getting the points and wins on the board that will get us into Europe, which he's doing, and has done brilliantly for the most part all season.

 

at some point we're going to have to question if it's the right time for us to make it into europe?

 

If we want to improve the football, being there will give us a far stronger position in the transfer market to replace our weaker players. This is the perfect time to get into Europe.

 

i actually wasn't considering style of play there, more size of squad...unless we have 4-5 good players lined up to come in (inc. a GOOD CB) i think qualifying for the europa league would end up being a bloodbath for us...i'd rather have the same 4-5 players and concentrate on developing at home and bedding them in

[mrmojorisin75]

classic NO forum "debate" going on again:

 

Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run...

Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that

Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore

Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man

 

repeat until pardew is fired

 

You're missing group C : Get rid, we've seen through the flim flam.

 

there's not enough of them to constitute a group imo

[Jayson]

classic NO forum "debate" going on again:

 

Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run...

Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that

Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore

Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man

 

repeat until pardew is fired

 

We have a seasons worth of performances that show little correlation between possession/domination & results in comparison to the importance of simply having a very strong defensive system and attackers that will do enough to get the points. If teams have a very hard time scoring against you & you are good at putting the ball in the net, you will win games against most sides. Pardew has put in place the defensive system that achieves that & bought the attackers that do the business the other side.

 

In what way is it likely that this will suddenly stop working?

 

you've mentioned the two parts of pardew's gameplan which i agree is essentially the basis of his approach, then you ask how will it suddenly stop working?

 

i'll tell you how; given the inherent complexity of the plan all it takes is for either the defence to become more porous or the attackers to be unable to keep scoring from the scraps they're given by launching the ball up the field every single time

 

it's a system that requires both to work all of the time, if you have a system and approach that includes the midfield doing creative things and the team as a whole coached to build attacks together through passing football then that adds another dimension that has to fail completely before results start going south

 

it's fairly simple

 

It doesnt require both to work all of the time. Both doesnt work all of the time for any team in the league, it requires both of them to work most of the time. Which they do, thats why its worked.

 

If the defensive system is strong and efficient & the attackers are of high enough quality both will maintain at similar rate. Especially if you have two attackers like Cisse/Ba who can cover if the other isnt on top form. You havent actually suggested why either would stop working most of the time.

[Optimistic Nut]

Until then though, it's about getting the points and wins on the board that will get us into Europe, which he's doing, and has done brilliantly for the most part all season.

 

at some point we're going to have to question if it's the right time for us to make it into europe?

 

If we want to improve the football, being there will give us a far stronger position in the transfer market to replace our weaker players. This is the perfect time to get into Europe.

 

i actually wasn't considering style of play there, more size of squad...unless we have 4-5 good players lined up to come in (inc. a GOOD CB) i think qualifying for the europa league would end up being a bloodbath for us...i'd rather have the same 4-5 players and concentrate on developing at home and bedding them in

 

I think you're over-rating the group stage of this thing. Birmingham Reserves only just missed out on getting to the knockout stage.

[Parky]

classic NO forum "debate" going on again:

 

Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run...

Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that

Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore

Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man

 

repeat until pardew is fired

 

You're missing group C : Get rid, we've seen through the flim flam.

 

there's not enough of them to constitute a group imo

classic NO forum "debate" going on again:

 

Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run...

Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that

Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore

Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man

 

repeat until pardew is fired

 

You're missing group C : Get rid, we've seen through the flim flam.

 

there's not enough of them to constitute a group imo

 

Cause they is cloaked, they wait in the shadows, but you sees fleeting glimpses of them in this thread - they is waiting like a panzer inside a barn at the edge of ze French village.