Alan Pardew

[Guest Deadmau5]

Very strange game yesterday. We started the game really well I thought (there was a definite emphasis on passing it around, and Krul and Williamson didn't hoof it in the first 15 mins at all), but as soon as we scored and the crowd got on Williamson's back for that insane moment in the first half, we seemed to lose confidence in our ability to pass it around. That being said, without playing well at all after that, we still could have easily scored another 3 or 4 goals.

 

All of the players did look shattered / low on confidence like (apart from Perch, who was immense, and Cisse).

 

With all that being said though, I was still disappointed when I left the game. Felt like we should have dominated more.

 

I agree in the past few months we haven't played good football, but the early signs yesterday was that we were trying to. So I'm not sure how much Pardew was to blame yesterday. It was clear in the first 15 mins that they were instructive to keep it down and pass it. The player's confidence seemed to revert them to hitting it long the longer the game wore on though.

 

I'd agree with that on balance. It's the manager's job to try and instil and maintain that confidence though. Reverting to awful football isn't the answer.

 

I agree. But I'm just trying to be balanced in my opinion. It was frustrating viewing yesterday. Initially I'd say it was the players fault for resorting to long ball / deep defending, but Pardew should have sorted it. What I'm getting at though, is that it was clear that our game plan was  initially to try and play "proper" football, so I'm not on the "Pardew sets up to play long ball" bandwagon just yet.

 

The problem is not what we initially are set up to do, any mug can get this team playing decent fotball - look at the players in the starting elleven. It oozes quality.

The crux is what we do/resort to once we are one-goal up. We stop playing fotball and just defend/hoof. Pardew takes the foot off the pedal as soon as we get a lead, to salvage a result.

 

I do agree that we would probably have less pressure on us and consequently could have kept it more on the deck if we were comfortably mid-table.

Now we find ourselves 6th and questions are being asked that just wouldnt have if we were - say - 12th. Pardew clearly looks uncomfortable answering them and its getting hot in the kitchen.

 

But being able to handle success and build on it is what separates good managers from the bad/average ones. An average one can have a good season, but then it tapers off.  Pardew is a good fit for a mid-table club and as long as questions about europe arent being asked, he can do a decent job.

 

The thing is, with the players we have signed, we can do and do much better than mid-table. So I am starting to wonder if the club and the players are starting to outgrow the manager.

[Parky]

is it not just what he did at west ham though?  big lad up top, hard working wingers, get the ball forward as early as possible, under use genuinely top class footballers for some reason to the point of alienation (to come for hba), have a good season or two then when the wheels come off have no answer to how to stop it?

 

it all seems eerily similar to me

 

dave's post was spot on as well by the way, the good aspects of his approach are becoming more sporadic, that's all anyone is really saying

 

He also signed, and played, Yossi Benayoun, who was brilliant in that season where they finished mid-table and almost won the FA Cup.

 

I think the Benayoun card is a tad overplayed by YOU Nut.   This must be the 3rd time you've tried to slip it into this thread.

[Dr Venkman]

Very strange game yesterday. We started the game really well I thought (there was a definite emphasis on passing it around, and Krul and Williamson didn't hoof it in the first 15 mins at all), but as soon as we scored and the crowd got on Williamson's back for that insane moment in the first half, we seemed to lose confidence in our ability to pass it around. That being said, without playing well at all after that, we still could have easily scored another 3 or 4 goals.

 

All of the players did look shattered / low on confidence like (apart from Perch, who was immense, and Cisse).

 

With all that being said though, I was still disappointed when I left the game. Felt like we should have dominated more.

 

I agree in the past few months we haven't played good football, but the early signs yesterday was that we were trying to. So I'm not sure how much Pardew was to blame yesterday. It was clear in the first 15 mins that they were instructive to keep it down and pass it. The player's confidence seemed to revert them to hitting it long the longer the game wore on though.

 

I'd agree with that on balance. It's the manager's job to try and instil and maintain that confidence though. Reverting to awful football isn't the answer.

 

I agree. But I'm just trying to be balanced in my opinion. It was frustrating viewing yesterday. Initially I'd say it was the players fault for resorting to long ball / deep defending, but Pardew should have sorted it. What I'm getting at though, is that it was clear that our game plan was  initially to try and play "proper" football, so I'm not on the "Pardew sets up to play long ball" bandwagon just yet.

 

I think performances like Norwich and Arsenal highlight why we should be training in a way that encourages football based on passing and moving. We tried to do it at Arsenal and essentially got nowhere and we tried to do it yesterday but stopped after 15 minutes. If the players were doing it day in day out they wouldnt look so bloody clueless on the odd occasion that Pardew decides he wants us to pass it about a bit.

[Guest Deadmau5]

Arsenal only managed a 2nd via an error

 

very good

 

How do you disagree?

 

Mate, we got run over and were lucky only to concede 2. Anything other than an arsenal win would have been daylight robbery.

[Guest]

is it not just what he did at west ham though?  big lad up top, hard working wingers, get the ball forward as early as possible, under use genuinely top class footballers for some reason to the point of alienation (to come for hba), have a good season or two then when the wheels come off have no answer to how to stop it?

 

it all seems eerily similar to me

 

dave's post was spot on as well by the way, the good aspects of his approach are becoming more sporadic, that's all anyone is really saying

 

He also signed, and played, Yossi Benayoun, who was brilliant in that season where they finished mid-table and almost won the FA Cup.

 

I think the Benayoun card is a tad overplayed by YOU Nut.   This must be the 3rd time you've tried to slip it into this thread.

 

Because people keep bringing up Tevez/Mascherano (not by name but it's obvious who people are referring to), but fail to mention he signed this lad and he was brilliant to watch.

[Jayson]

Arsenal only managed a 2nd via an error

 

very good

 

How do you disagree?

 

Mate, we got run over and were lucky only to concede 2. Anything other than an arsenal win would have been daylight robbery.

 

Because blocking chances is lucky for a defence? Strange pov really.

[colinmk]

classic NO forum "debate" going on again:

 

Group A: results have been good, performances poor and ultimately that's likely to lead to poorer results unless pardew changes his tactics and selections in the long run...

Group B: we're 6th man, you can't criticize pardew for results, it's a disgrace to even think of that

Group A: agree that results are good, saying that in future they're likely to not be good anymore

Group B: but results are good, we're 6th man

 

repeat until pardew is fired

 

You're missing group C : Get rid, we've seen through the flim flam.

 

[Parky]

I knew Pards was defensive when he carried on playing 442 when it was clear we have shit/unthreatening wingers and they are mainly there to cover the fullbacks. That was months ago. Then he tried to play Raylor RM for a bit while Hatem was staring vacantly onto the pitch watching his life drift by. Then he's bought Cisse to play with Ba but we still don't have wingers who can provide the ammo, neither do we have two proper DM's (Cabaye even to the idle observer isn't a deep midfielder - he has so much more to his game than that). So, Pards continues with this hodgepotch stubbornly when it is clear the players we have (or did have) were suited to a 433 or a high 451. I feel sorry for him cause like in Lost he's still pressing the button and watching the numbers change and has decided to not leave the bunker.

[mrmojorisin75]

I knew Pards was defensive when he carried on playing 442 when it was clear we have shit/unthreatening wingers and they are mainly there to cover the fullbacks. That was months ago. Then he tried to play Raylor RM for a bit while Hatem was staring vacantly onto the pitch watching his life drift by. Then he's bought Cisse to play with Ba but we still don't have wingers who can provide the ammo, neither do we have two proper DM's (Cabaye even to the idle observer isn't a deep midfielder - he has so much more to his game than that). So, Pards continues with this hodgepotch stubbornly when it is clear the players we have (or did have) were suited to a 433 or a high 451. I feel sorry for him cause like in Lost he's still pressing the button and watching the numbers change and has decided to not leave the bunker.

 

in my heart of heart i guess i know this too but still feel he's got to be given more time to change it, experience tells me he won't though

[Guest Dontooner]

I fail to understand how the people who see positives in our play this season (and there have been many) can't also see that those positives are getting more sporadic as the season goes on. If it was the other way around then everyone would be delighted, but it's not and that's the concern. On the whole we're actually devolving in terms of the style of play - something that Pardew himself has championed as a key point to watch this season. Yes, there have been injuries, suspensions and the ACoN to deal with but none of these are things that other clubs don't also have to deal with.

 

Qualifying for Europe would be an amazing success, but as others have suggested it might be way too early for us as a club.

 

I don't think that the negative Pardew posts are as objective and rational as they should be - certainly not as rational as your post.  Quite quickly they degenerate into either just plain abuse and name calling of Pardew or posts suggesting that he is clueless, tactically naive and a PR man (or all of the above).

On the contrary, the opposite views are more of different personalities accumulated over a life time of experience which all defer from one another. I find most of the arguements in this thread quite reasonable except for a few posters, however there must be a sticking point to this debate or it would not be so vigorously discussed. Only time will tell, as both parties think they are neutral or logically superior than the other.

[colinmk]

I knew Pards was defensive when he carried on playing 442 when it was clear we have shit/unthreatening wingers and they are mainly there to cover the fullbacks. That was months ago. Then he tried to play Raylor RM for a bit while Hatem was staring vacantly onto the pitch watching his life drift by. Then he's bought Cisse to play with Ba but we still don't have wingers who can provide the ammo, neither do we have two proper DM's (Cabaye even to the idle observer isn't a deep midfielder - he has so much more to his game than that). So, Pards continues with this hodgepotch stubbornly when it is clear the players we have (or did have) were suited to a 433 or a high 451. I feel sorry for him cause like in Lost he's still pressing the button and watching the numbers change and has decided to not leave the bunker.

 

in my heart of heart i guess i know this too but still feel he's got to be given more time to change it, experience tells me he won't though

 

I think he has earnt his time with the points tally he's accumulated this season. Like you guys, I know he isn't the man for the job long term and personally I won't be sad to see him go as I just don't like or rate the guy(opinion hasn't changed from day 1). I do wish him luck though as he is our manager and if he proves me wrong fair play to him.

[Dave]

I dont think our overall play has changed that much, Ba has just become less prolific recently & Krul's long balls have started wearing on people overtime. Defensively not much has changed & thats Pardews main strength. In our last 3 Norwich couldnt score, Arsenal only managed a 2nd via an error, Sunderland needed a pen to score.

 

If our overall play hasn't changed much then all the arguments about Pardew playing a better brand of football then he who cannot be named are utter bollocks.

[Guest BooBoo]

As we get to the business end of the season, there's very little chance of us opening up and playing more exciting football. It's all about results now and I can see us playing in a similar cagey style for the run in.

 

I'd be lying if I said I really enjoy our games. I dont on the whole and yesterday would have made grim viewing for the neutrals. Pardew is clearly under pressure to get us into Europe after being up there all year, but he's not being assisted by a collective loss of form by a number of his blue chip players. Ba has been poor since the CON, Tiote has had an average season, Cabaye is struggling to get any sort of form together and through nobody's fault but the purse holders, we are being forced to play the clearly nervous and limited Williamson.

[Dr Venkman]

Very strange game yesterday. We started the game really well I thought (there was a definite emphasis on passing it around, and Krul and Williamson didn't hoof it in the first 15 mins at all), but as soon as we scored and the crowd got on Williamson's back for that insane moment in the first half, we seemed to lose confidence in our ability to pass it around. That being said, without playing well at all after that, we still could have easily scored another 3 or 4 goals.

 

All of the players did look shattered / low on confidence like (apart from Perch, who was immense, and Cisse).

 

With all that being said though, I was still disappointed when I left the game. Felt like we should have dominated more.

 

I agree in the past few months we haven't played good football, but the early signs yesterday was that we were trying to. So I'm not sure how much Pardew was to blame yesterday. It was clear in the first 15 mins that they were instructive to keep it down and pass it. The player's confidence seemed to revert them to hitting it long the longer the game wore on though.

 

I'd agree with that on balance. It's the manager's job to try and instil and maintain that confidence though. Reverting to awful football isn't the answer.

 

I agree. But I'm just trying to be balanced in my opinion. It was frustrating viewing yesterday. Initially I'd say it was the players fault for resorting to long ball / deep defending, but Pardew should have sorted it. What I'm getting at though, is that it was clear that our game plan was  initially to try and play "proper" football, so I'm not on the "Pardew sets up to play long ball" bandwagon just yet.

 

I think performances like Norwich and Arsenal highlight why we should be training in a way that encourages football based on passing and moving. We tried to do it at Arsenal and essentially got nowhere and we tried to do it yesterday but stopped after 15 minutes. If the players were doing it day in day out they wouldnt look so bloody clueless on the odd occasion that Pardew decides he wants us to pass it about a bit.

 

How exactly do you know what we do in training?

 

I know that we spend 4 days out of 5 on stopping the other team. I'm speculating that we don't spend much time if any working on passing and moving, because we don't do it on a match day.

[Guest BooBoo]

If I was in a position where I knew I had to play Simpson and Williamson then I'd be spending the majority of training on defending tbh.

[Guest neesy111]

If I was in a position where I knew I had to play Simpson and Williamson then I'd be spending the majority of training on defending tbh.

 

True, but lumping it forward is just so counteractive unless you have target men upfront.  1st 20 mins of the 2nd half was all brought upon our inability to keep possession and then try a long ball or pass, it was only when Shola and Santon came on we started to get a grip on the game again.

[Dave]

As we get to the business end of the season, there's very little chance of us opening up and playing more exciting football. It's all about results now and I can see us playing in a similar cagey style for the run in.

 

I'd be lying if I said I really enjoy our games. I dont on the whole and yesterday would have made grim viewing for the neutrals. Pardew is clearly under pressure to get us into Europe after being up there all year, but he's not being assisted by a collective loss of form by a number of his blue chip players. Ba has been poor since the CON, Tiote has had an average season, Cabaye is struggling to get any sort of form together and through nobody's fault but the purse holders, we are being forced to play the clearly nervous and limited Williamson.

 

Thing is that's in direct opposition to many posts on this forum from earlier on in the season. People were delighted that Pardew had taken the team from Hughton and carried things on and in some instances improved them. Many said they were enjoying the games more than they have in years. We've gone backwards in the second half of the season and it's a major concern IMO.

 

I take your point on the pressure of changing expectations though, and that's why I'm by no means calling for his head. That should be a last resort if we're really struggling.

[Guest BooBoo]

Yes I agree, I'd be far more content with us trying to play it out of defence but I'm not sure we have the players at the back for it.

 

Summer has to be a time for defensive recruitment.

[Dr Venkman]

Very strange game yesterday. We started the game really well I thought (there was a definite emphasis on passing it around, and Krul and Williamson didn't hoof it in the first 15 mins at all), but as soon as we scored and the crowd got on Williamson's back for that insane moment in the first half, we seemed to lose confidence in our ability to pass it around. That being said, without playing well at all after that, we still could have easily scored another 3 or 4 goals.

 

All of the players did look shattered / low on confidence like (apart from Perch, who was immense, and Cisse).

 

With all that being said though, I was still disappointed when I left the game. Felt like we should have dominated more.

 

I agree in the past few months we haven't played good football, but the early signs yesterday was that we were trying to. So I'm not sure how much Pardew was to blame yesterday. It was clear in the first 15 mins that they were instructive to keep it down and pass it. The player's confidence seemed to revert them to hitting it long the longer the game wore on though.

 

I'd agree with that on balance. It's the manager's job to try and instil and maintain that confidence though. Reverting to awful football isn't the answer.

 

I agree. But I'm just trying to be balanced in my opinion. It was frustrating viewing yesterday. Initially I'd say it was the players fault for resorting to long ball / deep defending, but Pardew should have sorted it. What I'm getting at though, is that it was clear that our game plan was  initially to try and play "proper" football, so I'm not on the "Pardew sets up to play long ball" bandwagon just yet.

 

I think performances like Norwich and Arsenal highlight why we should be training in a way that encourages football based on passing and moving. We tried to do it at Arsenal and essentially got nowhere and we tried to do it yesterday but stopped after 15 minutes. If the players were doing it day in day out they wouldnt look so bloody clueless on the odd occasion that Pardew decides he wants us to pass it about a bit.

 

How exactly do you know what we do in training?

 

I know that we spend 4 days out of 5 on stopping the other team. I'm speculating that we don't spend much time if any working on passing and moving, because we don't do it on a match day.

 

You actually KNOW that 4 days worth of training is spent purely on stopping the other team? Hmmmm... I highly doubt that (both the fact that you know it, and the fact itself)

 

http://www.nufcblog.org/2011/11/carver-on-pardew-and-the-way-newcastle-run-their-week/#.T2cYHWJNuB9

[Guest BooBoo]

As we get to the business end of the season, there's very little chance of us opening up and playing more exciting football. It's all about results now and I can see us playing in a similar cagey style for the run in.

 

I'd be lying if I said I really enjoy our games. I dont on the whole and yesterday would have made grim viewing for the neutrals. Pardew is clearly under pressure to get us into Europe after being up there all year, but he's not being assisted by a collective loss of form by a number of his blue chip players. Ba has been poor since the CON, Tiote has had an average season, Cabaye is struggling to get any sort of form together and through nobody's fault but the purse holders, we are being forced to play the clearly nervous and limited Williamson.

 

Thing is that's in direct opposition to many posts on this forum from earlier on in the season. People were delighted that Pardew had taken the team from Hughton and carried things on and in some instances improved them. Many said they were enjoying the games more than they have in years. We've gone backwards in the second half of the season and it's a major concern IMO.

 

I take your point on the pressure of changing expectations though, and that's why I'm by no means calling for his head. That should be a last resort if we're really struggling.

 

We've certainly gone into our shell. IMO its a combo of the pressure and the sobering tonkings we took at Norwich, Fulham and Spurs.

[Dave]

Yes I agree, I'd be far more content with us trying to play it out of defence but I'm not sure we have the players at the back for it.

 

Summer has to be a time for defensive recruitment.

 

We've done it this season though, with the same players.

[Guest neesy111]

Yes I agree, I'd be far more content with us trying to play it out of defence but I'm not sure we have the players at the back for it.

 

Summer has to be a time for defensive recruitment.

 

Next season is the big test for Pardew.  He's had time to mould the team into how he wants it, expectations will rightly be higher because of this season as well.  Need to use what funds we have to fill the gaps in the 1st team and overall squad as they are glaring obvious.

[JH]

We won the game by passing it out and playing carpet football (the goal itself)

 

We're more than capable of it. We just stopped after the goal. Seems it was 'defend the three points at all costs' mode.

[Dr Venkman]

Yes I agree, I'd be far more content with us trying to play it out of defence but I'm not sure we have the players at the back for it.

 

Summer has to be a time for defensive recruitment.

 

We've done it this season though, with the same players.

 

We did it well for 15 minutes yesterday, I was really pleased. Then Williamson went a bit mad and they all reverted to type and stopped moving and looking for it. It's a point I've been making for a while, we did the same at the Emirates, started well and at the first sign of pressure reverted to lobbing it. If the players were being coached to pass it we wouldnt slip so easily back into surrendering possession as our main mode of play.

[Jayson]

I dont think our overall play has changed that much, Ba has just become less prolific recently & Krul's long balls have started wearing on people overtime. Defensively not much has changed & thats Pardews main strength. In our last 3 Norwich couldnt score, Arsenal only managed a 2nd via an error, Sunderland needed a pen to score.

 

If our overall play hasn't changed much then all the arguments about Pardew playing a better brand of football then he who cannot be named are utter bollocks.

 

Dont really disagree. Dont think much has changed in terms of our play than last season, perhaps a few more moments of class via throughballs/finishing. The thing Pardew changed was our defensive ability & its worked out very well for us with Ba doing business down the other end. The issue is whether he focuses on defense so much because hes decided that it deserves the most attention based on our current squad, or whether he does it because hes simply very defensively minded. The former has the potential to take us forward, the latter much less so. People are all guessing atm which one is true.

 

The periods in games where we play nice passing football like the start of yesterday suggest to me he is capable of it & next season will be a much better indication of his overall ability.