Is Mike Ashley the worst person ever to have been associated with NUFC?

[Jack Flash]

Even he was stupid not to do due diligence, that doesn't change the reality of the current situation. It's a strange argument that because he spent too much buying the club, and it cost him much more than he expected, he should therefore spend even more now.

 

Pardew said the money would be reinvested out of the Carroll sale ,he was told by Llambias and thats the crux of the current debate that that promise was made and so far very little net spend of that money.

 

I agree that "promise" was a mistake, but I think expecting that it actually meant we would spend £35m on transfer fees is taking it far too literally. It was also made in a pressure situation by a manager trying to defend a very unpopular sale.

 

you're missing the point. spending none of it and then giving a list of excuses to the local press including a f***ing water pipe is a pretty clear indication of what these lot are about, and you're still not seeing it.

 

How am I missing the point? You mean I'm not coming to the same conclusion as you.

 

the conclusion i'm coming to is that they haven't spent any of it, i fail to see how you'd be too far away from that?

 

I don't know exactly how much they've spent, I agree it is probably quite a small proportion. But that doesn't outrage me as much as it does some people, because I never thought it would all go on transfers in the first place.

 

What concerns me is whether we are adding decent players to the squad, which I think we are.

 

They have "spent" around £25 million of the Carroll money.

 

Personally, I'll judge the spending on what I see on the pitch after August. Currently they've spent £300k in my book.

 

Are you joking? Please tell me you are...

 

We simply haven't "spent" £25 million. Most of it appears to be sitting in the bank on the off chance that we don't sell the players we've just "bought".

 

Which is just as f***ing bad. They've used money from the £35 million to pay Tiote's wages for the next two seasons... The money is as good as spent.

 

And that's where the "where is the rest of the income going?" question comes into it. The phrase "smoke and mirrors" is a very appropriate one.

 

To see where the rest of the income is going, and has gone in previous seasons, look at the club's accounts.

 

The previous income was paying for things this new, extra income is now paying for.

 

Yes, and resulting in regular losses and increase in debt. I don't see how this is hard to grasp, if you're paying out more money than you earn and your earnings increase, you don't go spending all of the extra.

 

Haven't people on here said we're breaking even or will break even in the very near future? With 2 or 3 high earners leaving in the next year they can't be far away from having no excuses left.

 

All future tense though - we're not quite there yet

 

This is where we'd need some ambition. We could finish well into the top half with a one or two ambitious signings.

[Colocho]

Sorry, but using the previous owners of this club as some kind of benchmark (and being grateful for having Ashley instead of them) is bollocks imo.

 

Why? They were the ones that left the club in the position that Ashley found it.

 

Not saying it means we should ignore all his mistakes since arriving, but surely it has to be taken into account. Especially when saying shite like Ashley is taking money out, something that the previous regime were masters at.

 

We're on stable financial footing now. With all revenue + the Carroll momey, we should be spending at least £15 million (net) on new players this summer.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Sorry, but using the previous owners of this club as some kind of benchmark (and being grateful for having Ashley instead of them) is bollocks imo.

 

Why? They were the ones that left the club in the position that Ashley found it.

 

Not saying it means we should ignore all his mistakes since arriving, but surely it has to be taken into account. Especially when saying shite like Ashley is taking money out, something that the previous regime were masters at.

 

We're on stable financial footing now. With all revenue + the Carroll momey, we should be spending at least £15 million (net) on new players this summer.

 

You've just changed the argument again though. Your point was about the comparison of Ashley v Shepherd, I wasn't saying anything to do with specific amounts of spending.

[ToonTastic]

Look at our recent record, Viana, Luque, Owen, Boumsong... all these were f***ing silly deals with unreasonable wages.  Are these kinda deals what we want?

 

Seen this in so many places, what's the problem with trying to spend and getting good players like Ferdinand, Shearer, Tino, Bellamy, Robert, Woodgate, Coloccini ? If Carr can find good players from cheap players just think what he could get spending a few quid.

[Guest thenorthumbrian]

With the current squad we are two or three injuries away from a relegation fight.

And we have brought players to the club with very doubtful injury records.

Someone needs to explain to our current owners and manager that there is a big difference between being lean and starved to death.

[Dave]

Aside from the not inconsiderable debt the club owes to Ashley from the takeover and our relegation, can anyone tell me what remains from the Shepherd era that is still causing us to have problems financially on a yearly basis?

 

The players on really huge wages are gone, the transfer fees are surely paid off by now and there's a shirt sponsorship deal in place. What else is there?

 

If Ashley simply wants his money back, what's to stop a bit of honesty about it?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Is the considerable debt not enough, and is it not increasing because we run at a loss?

[Dr Venkman]

Look at our recent record, Viana, Luque, Owen, Boumsong... all these were f***ing silly deals with unreasonable wages.  Are these kinda deals what we want?

 

Seen this in so many places, what's the problem with trying to spend and getting good players like Ferdinand, Shearer, Tino, Bellamy, Robert, Woodgate, Coloccini ? If Carr can find good players from cheap players just think what he could get spending a few quid.

 

i think Charles N'Zogbia's canny, he might be available?

[ToonTastic]

Aside from the not inconsiderable debt the club owes to Ashley from the takeover and our relegation, can anyone tell me what remains from the Shepherd era that is still causing us to have problems financially on a yearly basis?

 

The players on really huge wages are gone, the transfer fees are surely paid off by now and there's a shirt sponsorship deal in place. What else is there?

 

If Ashley simply wants his money back, what's to stop a bit of honesty about it?

 

And also don't forget Ashley was happy to top up those huge wages and bad buys when he first started under Fat Sam

[Jack Flash]

Look at our recent record, Viana, Luque, Owen, Boumsong... all these were f***ing silly deals with unreasonable wages.  Are these kinda deals what we want?

 

Seen this in so many places, what's the problem with trying to spend and getting good players like Ferdinand, Shearer, Tino, Bellamy, Robert, Woodgate, Coloccini ? If Carr can find good players from cheap players just think what he could get spending a few quid.

 

Exactly right. The last 2 years have been proof that we can speculate to accumulate and we can do it very well. I've seen nothing to suggest we're massively paying over the odds in any area in that time.

[Dave]

Is the considerable debt not enough, and is it not increasing because we run at a loss?

 

It's his own business, if he has the cash (which he quite clearly does), why would he want to let it go under? All he's done is keep his own business trading.

 

Can you answer my question? What are we still paying for on a yearly basis from the previous ownership?

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Look at our recent record, Viana, Luque, Owen, Boumsong... all these were f***ing silly deals with unreasonable wages.  Are these kinda deals what we want?

 

Seen this in so many places, what's the problem with trying to spend and getting good players like Ferdinand, Shearer, Tino, Bellamy, Robert, Woodgate, Coloccini ? If Carr can find good players from cheap players just think what he could get spending a few quid.

 

I know we also spend decent wedge on other players that summer,

 

But iirc the Cole sale allowed us to bring in Gillespie and Ferdinand for zero net spend.

 

Does that make the sale of Cole unambitious?

[Dave]

Look at our recent record, Viana, Luque, Owen, Boumsong... all these were f***ing silly deals with unreasonable wages.  Are these kinda deals what we want?

 

Seen this in so many places, what's the problem with trying to spend and getting good players like Ferdinand, Shearer, Tino, Bellamy, Robert, Woodgate, Coloccini ? If Carr can find good players from cheap players just think what he could get spending a few quid.

 

Exactly right. The last 2 years have been proof that we can speculate to accumulate and we can do it very well. I've seen nothing to suggest we're massively paying over the odds in any area in that time.

 

Apparently as soon as you spend more than £6m in a transfer fee you automatically pay unsustainable wages and the player flops or is seriously injured.

[ToonTastic]

Look at our recent record, Viana, Luque, Owen, Boumsong... all these were f***ing silly deals with unreasonable wages.  Are these kinda deals what we want?

 

Seen this in so many places, what's the problem with trying to spend and getting good players like Ferdinand, Shearer, Tino, Bellamy, Robert, Woodgate, Coloccini ? If Carr can find good players from cheap players just think what he could get spending a few quid.

 

I know we also spend decent wedge on other players that summer,

 

But iirc the Cole sale allowed us to bring in Gillespie and Ferdinand for zero net spend.

 

Does that make the sale of Cole unambitious?

 

To be fair at the time it seemed that way yes lol but we also paid for the most expensive defender at the time Warren Barton, David Ginola and Shaka hislop at the same time as we bought Les Ferdinand.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Dave, for someone who hates straw men you sure do love that one.

 

Nobody is saying it's impossible to spend big money on good players, why would anyone argue that? We just have a history of quite a lot of expensive flops, and have taken risks on quite a lot of pricey players in the past.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Look at our recent record, Viana, Luque, Owen, Boumsong... all these were f***ing silly deals with unreasonable wages.  Are these kinda deals what we want?

 

Seen this in so many places, what's the problem with trying to spend and getting good players like Ferdinand, Shearer, Tino, Bellamy, Robert, Woodgate, Coloccini ? If Carr can find good players from cheap players just think what he could get spending a few quid.

 

Exactly right. The last 2 years have been proof that we can speculate to accumulate and we can do it very well. I've seen nothing to suggest we're massively paying over the odds in any area in that time.

 

Apparently as soon as you spend more than £6m in a transfer fee you automatically pay unsustainable wages and the player flops or is seriously injured.

 

Just imagine the pressure on the poor bloke if we do spend £6m plus on anyone. We're just an overly demanding bunch of fans

[ToonTastic]

Dave, for someone who hates straw men you sure do love that one.

 

Nobody is saying it's impossible to spend big money on good players, why would anyone argue that? We just have a history of quite a lot of expensive flops, and have taken risks on quite a lot of pricey players in the past.

 

But the majority of the players we appeared to spend big on and were flops were pretty unknown on the international scene or just didn't appear to anyone to be worth the big cash probably apart from one which was Michael Owen.

[Guest thenorthumbrian]

In the period 2006 to 2011 Newcastle United have made the best part of £50 million PROFIT in the transfer market.

This is excluding the other revenue streams the club has, If this club is running at a loss particularly over the last two years bearing in mind the TV cash etc then serious questions need to asked about how this has been allowed to happen.

 

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2006-2011.html

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Look at our recent record, Viana, Luque, Owen, Boumsong... all these were f***ing silly deals with unreasonable wages.  Are these kinda deals what we want?

 

Seen this in so many places, what's the problem with trying to spend and getting good players like Ferdinand, Shearer, Tino, Bellamy, Robert, Woodgate, Coloccini ? If Carr can find good players from cheap players just think what he could get spending a few quid.

 

I know we also spend decent wedge on other players that summer,

 

But iirc the Cole sale allowed us to bring in Gillespie and Ferdinand for zero net spend.

 

Does that make the sale of Cole unambitious?

 

To be fair at the time it seemed that way yes lol but we also paid for the most expensive defender at the time Warren Barton, David Ginola and Shaka hislop at the same time as we bought Les Ferdinand.

 

Funny looking back how the most gifted player there was the cheapest. Same fee as we had agreed for John Salako wasn't it?

[Dave]

Dave, for someone who hates straw men you sure do love that one.

 

Nobody is saying it's impossible to spend big money on good players, why would anyone argue that? We just have a history of quite a lot of expensive flops, and have taken risks on quite a lot of pricey players in the past.

 

And now we take a allegedly shitload of care by scouting players for ages, making sure they would fit in etc and having them watched by an amazing chief scout in Graham Carr. So why would buying pricey players mean they would be another Luque, Owen etc?

 

Are you going to answer my other question btw? It was a genuine query.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Dave, for someone who hates straw men you sure do love that one.

 

Nobody is saying it's impossible to spend big money on good players, why would anyone argue that? We just have a history of quite a lot of expensive flops, and have taken risks on quite a lot of pricey players in the past.

 

But the majority of the players we appeared to spend big on and were flops were pretty unknown on the international scene or just didn't appear to anyone to be worth the big cash probably apart from one which was Michael Owen.

 

I know, that's not the point I was making. I was saying that nobody is arguing that it's impossible top buy good players for good money. But at the same time  paying big money doesn't guarantee a good player.

[Colocho]

With the current squad we are two or three injuries away from a relegation fight.

And we have brought players to the club with very doubtful injury records.

Someone needs to explain to our current owners and manager that there is a big difference between being lean and starved to death.

 

Is our current squad stronger than what we had in mid-January?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Dave, for someone who hates straw men you sure do love that one.

 

Nobody is saying it's impossible to spend big money on good players, why would anyone argue that? We just have a history of quite a lot of expensive flops, and have taken risks on quite a lot of pricey players in the past.

 

And now we take a allegedly shitload of care by scouting players for ages, making sure they would fit in etc and having them watched by an amazing chief scout in Graham Carr. So why would buying pricey players mean they would be another Luque, Owen etc?

 

It wouldn't, the point I was making was that nobody is arguing that.

 

The fact is there's no certainty about a players quality based on how much they cost. That's why I think it's futile for us to concentrate so hard on how much we're spending. Let's judge the players, not the money.

 

I know it's possible to buy good players for big money, I've never denied that or said big spending is always bad.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

In the period 2006 to 2011 Newcastle United have made the best part of £50 million PROFIT in the transfer market.

This is excluding the other revenue streams the club has, If this club is running at a loss particularly over the last two years bearing in mind the TV cash etc then serious questions need to asked about how this has been allowed to happen.

 

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2006-2011.html

 

£43million of that comes form the Bassong and AC sales in the past 12 months and also includes a relegation where you wouldn't expect anything other than a net profit from transfers in a year.

 

I understand that we have £35m burning a hole in every one of the fans profits, and I also get why the majority of fans fall asleep at the first mention of football finance. However people need to grasp that football is a business (unless you are City or Chelsea) and at some point the books need to be balanced.

 

We've blinked first in may respects in adressing the hole in our budget, and like in F1 with the first pit stops we won't know until later in the game whether we've done the right thing for the long term or shot our load too soon

[Guest thenorthumbrian]

With the current squad we are two or three injuries away from a relegation fight.

And we have brought players to the club with very doubtful injury records.

Someone needs to explain to our current owners and manager that there is a big difference between being lean and starved to death.

 

Is our current squad stronger than what we had in mid-January?

 

We have shipped out our two proven goal scorers from least season, from that point of view, yes it is weaker.