colinmk Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 She is really talking in general terms there and not focusing on the points you made. If they can discredit the evidence shown that standing seems to be as safe as sitting then fair enough but they aren't even attempting that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I sent the following email to the hillsbrough campaign following the comments I posted above, and received a reply from the chair, if anyone's interested. My email Dear Sir/Madam, > I would like to express my disappointment at the comments of your chair Margaret Aspinall regarding the campaign to bring safe standing to football in England. Her comments are a disgraceful attempt to shut down sensible conversation with her use of emotive, aggressive, gult-tripping, hyperbolic and, really quite silly comments. (96 reasons not to bring in safe standing? I challenge her to name those 96. 96 names of people who died under a different system do not even amount to one reason.). > > But mainly, her suggestion that support by many football fans, including myself, to emulate the safe standing success of other countries is somehow an affront ("insulting") to the campaign for accountability for the tragic events of Hillsbrough is abhorrent. > > I think everybody is willing to listen to sensible arguments against the system. Importantly, from somebody who recognises the campaign is not for a return to 1980s unregulated standing with cages. However, Ms Aspinall is clearly more interested in hijacking a worthy cause than inviting any discussion. Shame on her. > > As an aside, regarding the comment "there is nothing safe about standing", I have stood at every single away match I've been to as a Newcastle supporter, and if there's anything remotely dangerous about it, it's falling over seats. > > Thank you > Grant Macdonald Her reply Dear Grant, Thank you for your email which I read with great interest. You are entitled to your opinion as I am certainly entitled to mine. In no way shape or form was I aggressive and I take issue with this. I'd like to let you know that I don't only speak on behalf of myself, these are the views of the vast number of families who lost loved ones on 15th April 1989. We, as a group, do not enjoy arguing over standing, we have more to worry about at this moment in time, but we always think people's safety is paramount. It could have been so many more who died that day, only for the fans who done so much to try to save so many lives. We must not go backwards, cars are safer now they have seat belts, planes carry black boxes and aviation safety standards are constantly evolving, similarly, football stadia are safer becasue they are all seater. Unfortunately it always costs lives before lessons are learnt. People refer to safe standing in Germany, but that is now proven not to be the case as there has been a significant rise in violence: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20708310 We need to learn and move forward not backwards to the standards and way fans were treated in the 80's. I am not saying violence was any part of Hillsborough, it clearly wasn't, but with seating it is much easier to identify troublemakers and remove them from the ground when there is seating. I would appreciate you not using that tone you did to me again, I am the chairman and therefore the main voice of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, but I am expressing the views of all our bereaved family members. Best wishes, Margaret Good email, agree with the above. She has blatantly ignored most of your points and just replied with what is basically a template. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 As if there's a comparison with seat belts in cars. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 As if there's a comparison with seat belts in cars. Completely idiotic comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 As if there's a comparison with seat belts in cars. Completely idiotic comparison. Since we have stopped having world wars far less British people have died in conflict, let's not go back to those days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superior Acuña Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 The thing is too, in the only games I have seen in-ground violence (at the SoS) , one of the main weapons is ripped up seats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Totally ignorant response as you would expect in all honesty. Also love how you had a go at her for you using that tone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 The thing is too, in the only games I have seen in-ground violence (at the SoS) , one of the main weapons is ripped up seats. Put seatbelts in the seats, can't get up, can't rip out your seat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 The thing is too, in the only games I have seen in-ground violence (at the SoS) , one of the main weapons is ripped up seats. If the seats weren't there, violent fans would be forced to bring firearms to the ground. Let's not go back to those days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MW Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 what a moronic response, its as if she didnt read your email Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled in Texas Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Politics 101 - never answer the question asked - always give your own statement regardless of the question Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malandro Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 what a moronic response, its as if she didnt read your email The woman lost a son. It doesn't make her views right but it's hardly surprising if her objectively is clouded by her loss. Calling her moronic is callous and inhumane. I'm in favour of safe standing but it'll never happen. Not because of the views held by this woman but because money is all that matters in football nowadays. The only way safe standing will be implemented in the PL is if enough supporters stop paying to sit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MW Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 what a moronic response, its as if she didnt read your email The woman lost a son. It doesn't make her views right but it's hardly surprising if her objectively is clouded by her loss. Calling her moronic is callous and inhumane. I'm in favour of safe standing but it'll never happen. Not because of the views held by this woman but because money is all that matters in football nowadays. The only way safe standing will be implemented in the PL is if enough supporters stop paying to sit. i dont think so. its terrible that it happened. but shes acting as if it would be exactly the same conditions as 25 years ago Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malandro Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I would agree that she is stuck in a time warp. I just think trying to understand why she can't move on is better than condemning her. Unlike me (and probably you) she will no doubt have spent the last 25 raking over every aspect of what happened at Hillsborough, has read every page of every review, attended every inquest. It's inevitable she will have deep routed negative emotions about terracing. Cutting her a bit of slack is the decent thing to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 While I agree that nobody should criticise Margaret Aspinall too much, I think that it's ridiculous taking her opinion into account in the first place. Why are the media asking her and printing it when this type of modern standing has as much connection to Hillsborough as it does to the Valley Parade fire - none whatsoever other than it being in a stadium. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malandro Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Completely agree. To quote a line from the last Star Trek movie, her judgement is emotionally compromised. The media are almost exclusively irresponsible and in the pockets of big business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Her reply Dear Grant, Thank you for your email which I read with great interest. You are entitled to your opinion as I am certainly entitled to mine. In no way shape or form was I aggressive and I take issue with this. I'd like to let you know that I don't only speak on behalf of myself, these are the views of the vast number of families who lost loved ones on 15th April 1989. We, as a group, do not enjoy arguing over standing, we have more to worry about at this moment in time, but we always think people's safety is paramount. It could have been so many more who died that day, only for the fans who done so much to try to save so many lives. We must not go backwards, cars are safer now they have seat belts, planes carry black boxes and aviation safety standards are constantly evolving, similarly, football stadia are safer becasue they are all seater. Unfortunately it always costs lives before lessons are learnt. People refer to safe standing in Germany, but that is now proven not to be the case as there has been a significant rise in violence: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20708310 We need to learn and move forward not backwards to the standards and way fans were treated in the 80's. I am not saying violence was any part of Hillsborough, it clearly wasn't, but with seating it is much easier to identify troublemakers and remove them from the ground when there is seating. I would appreciate you not using that tone you did to me again, I am the chairman and therefore the main voice of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, but I am expressing the views of all our bereaved family members. Best wishes, Margaret Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superior Acuña Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 what a moronic response, its as if she didnt read your email The woman lost a son. It doesn't make her views right but it's hardly surprising if her objectively is clouded by her loss. Calling her moronic is callous and inhumane. I'm in favour of safe standing but it'll never happen. Not because of the views held by this woman but because money is all that matters in football nowadays. The only way safe standing will be implemented in the PL is if enough supporters stop paying to sit. I'm sorry, but she has a reaponsbilit bot to be enotionally comprimised, she's head of an organisation, her words hve to be treated as anyone's. And the fact she lost a son puts her in a unique position to shut down conversation and guilt people, which she should use carefully. If she is wants to be credible in sure she doesn't want to be treated differently cos she lost a son. I wouldn't expect anyone to cut Cameron any slack cos he lost a son, they're heads of organisations. I appreciate that she replied, I didn't expect one and not for it to actually be from her. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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