Guest tollemache Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 did it again. bad habit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottledDog Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 We are never going to spend big under Ashley as he has no ambition for us to do so, say like Jack Walker did at Blackburn, or like the owners of Man City, Chelsea etc. While it's noble to get the club to become self sufficient that isn't going to help us break into the top 4. There has to be a balance, something we haven't got. Unfortunately on here and other places, if you say that, like Dave and others have, you are saying we should spend mental amounts. There's middle ground to be found and that's what Dave and others mean but our board are playing the game in to narrow of a playing field, aiming so narrow with transfer targets it has left us in trouble (along with Pardew's s*** football) Imo. We are only going to spend what we bring in unless there is a massive change of heart (something Pardew has clearly been pressing for). Still p*ssed off that the fallout from the Keegan debarcle saw Ashley saying f*** it, the plan was to throw an extra £20 million of my own money a year but I'm bollocked if I'm going to do it now. I'm fairly sympathetic to the reasons for him falling out of love for the project, but christ, think of the difference it would have made to us. Although he has been here 5 full years and, since buying the club, has put in an additional £140 million so that's well over £20 million a year on average....is one way of looking at it. And probably is the way he looks at it. The £140m was his own fault for not getting due dilligence done though. See your point mind. True and I think there's a solid divide between covering the clubs loses with (admittedly low interest) loans and actually sticking in £20m a year on top once we started breaking even/generating a profit. Would make a fucking monster difference to who we could afford and at what level we could compete down the line. Hopefully he'll get his mojo back one day, but looks hella unlikely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 did it again. bad habit I do it all the time, mainly spelling and grammar. Mole's the worst though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 We are never going to spend big under Ashley as he has no ambition for us to do so, say like Jack Walker did at Blackburn, or like the owners of Man City, Chelsea etc. While it's noble to get the club to become self sufficient that isn't going to help us break into the top 4. There has to be a balance, something we haven't got. Unfortunately on here and other places, if you say that, like Dave and others have, you are saying we should spend mental amounts. There's middle ground to be found and that's what Dave and others mean but our board are playing the game in to narrow of a playing field, aiming so narrow with transfer targets it has left us in trouble (along with Pardew's s*** football) Imo. We are only going to spend what we bring in unless there is a massive change of heart (something Pardew has clearly been pressing for). Still p*ssed off that the fallout from the Keegan debarcle saw Ashley saying f*** it, the plan was to throw an extra £20 million of my own money a year but I'm bollocked if I'm going to do it now. I'm fairly sympathetic to the reasons for him falling out of love for the project, but christ, think of the difference it would have made to us. Although he has been here 5 full years and, since buying the club, has put in an additional £140 million so that's well over £20 million a year on average....is one way of looking at it. And probably is the way he looks at it. The £140m was his own fault for not getting due dilligence done though. See your point mind. True and I think there's a solid divide between covering the clubs loses with (admittedly low interest) loans and actually sticking in £20m a year on top once we started breaking even/generating a profit. Would make a fucking monster difference to who we could afford and at what level we could compete down the line. Hopefully he'll get his mojo back one day, but looks hella unlikely. Well you never know, if that was going to happen, you would have thought last season would have stirred him up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 The counter-argument to that would be, if you know that 5th is a blip well above your realistic expectations, you'd be silly to go chasing Champions League football as though you're remotely ready to do so Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Well above? 2 or 3 places at the most. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppaz Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 sorry....edited my post while you were replying, it looks like, so I think I've already replied... shambles I think my point is that the £140m is still a much-needed investment in the club, out of his own pocket, regardless of how it came about. People occasionally write it off as though it's not really a proper investment, because he didn't do due diligence. It's not really much of a point is it? Let's move on That means he owns the stadium just not the ground on which it is built. The council own this but would never dream of not leasing to the club due to back lash from tax paying supporters in a one club city. Let's put the finances in to perspective. No outstanding transfer fees are owed every recent player is bought cash up front and only wages to pay. We made £12m last accounts and this is only the tip of the iceberg. In years to come with the extra TV revenue we will be a rich club but the gamble now is to invest a bit to ensure we are still around for the gravy train. It seems there is intent as rumours are Mike is willing to spend let's wait an see. Last resort is acting outside your policy or even loans. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 yeah but the implication is that 5th should be an immediate springboard to finishing above 5th... 'ambition' in that case would mean going for the CL places The target for the season was top 8 - some kind of European finish. And that probably should've been more or less the target for this season too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 sorry....edited my post while you were replying, it looks like, so I think I've already replied... shambles I think my point is that the £140m is still a much-needed investment in the club, out of his own pocket, regardless of how it came about. People occasionally write it off as though it's not really a proper investment, because he didn't do due diligence. It's not really much of a point is it? Let's move on That means he owns the stadium just not the ground on which it is built. The council own this but would never dream of not leasing to the club due to back lash from tax paying supporters in a one club city. Let's put the finances in to perspective. No outstanding transfer fees are owed every recent player is bought cash up front and only wages to pay. We made £12m last accounts and this is only the tip of the iceberg. In years to come with the extra TV revenue we will be a rich club but the gamble now is to invest a bit to ensure we are still around for the gravy train. It seems there is intent as rumours are Mike is willing to spend let's wait an see. Last resort is acting outside your policy or even loans. Yeah I think we've seen enough so far in the window to know that we're prepared to spend, just not significantly above market value. Will be interesting to see what happens as the window wears on, if everyone keeps poaching our targets Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 yeah but the implication is that 5th should be an immediate springboard to finishing above 5th... 'ambition' in that case would mean going for the CL places The target for the season was top 8 - some kind of European finish. And that probably should've been more or less the target for this season too In all fairness everyone knew we preformed above expectations last season and any fan would of been happy to challenge for 5th again and finish 6th or 7th at a push. Any fan I've spoken too would have been more than satisfied with that level of 'ambition' for this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 We are only going to spend what we bring in unless there is a massive change of heart (something Pardew has clearly been pressing for). Still p*ssed off that the fallout from the Keegan debarcle saw Ashley saying f*** it, the plan was to throw an extra £20 million of my own money a year but I'm bollocked if I'm going to do it now. I'm fairly sympathetic to the reasons for him falling out of love for the project, but christ, think of the difference it would have made to us. You're sympathetic towards Ashley. He gets no sympathy from me, he could have prevented the situation but didn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppaz Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Well WH said if they signed Carroll it would financially kill them for a long time. Instead they signed that winger for what 11-12m and now 3.5m on this kid.Close to Carol money. They must be near their limit so bid for Diame offer him a great contract and see if they want to keep him by diverting resources at a new contract or signing this left back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 My worry is that the ease that we won the Championship last time makes Ashley think it wouldnt be disastrous if it happened again. The TV money covered by high profile sales. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewJerseyMag Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 yeah but the implication is that 5th should be an immediate springboard to finishing above 5th... 'ambition' in that case would mean going for the CL places The target for the season was top 8 - some kind of European finish. And that probably should've been more or less the target for this season too I would agree with 8th being the starting position, but we are quite some way from that. The sad thing for me is that this situation was predicted by many. That being the case, how come the management appeared unwilling or unable to see the potential problems of mounting European & PL campaigns with an overly small squad. Do these guys (DEkka & Mike) have to learn everything the hard way? We already have been relegated once, would twice teach them the lesson? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 My worry is that the ease that we won the Championship last time makes Ashley think it wouldnt be disastrous if it happened again. The TV money covered by high profile sales. We would end up with a far weaker squad than last time and few if any of those left have the mentality of Nolan and co. Mind you the wage bill would plummet!! If we went down, unless we recruited well, I doubt we would come straight back up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 My worry is that the ease that we won the Championship last time makes Ashley think it wouldnt be disastrous if it happened again. The TV money covered by high profile sales. We would end up with a far weaker squad than last time and few if any of those left have the mentality of Nolan and co. Mind you the wage bill would plummet!! If we went down, unless we recruited well, I doubt we would come straight back up. I know that , you know that. But does Ashley ? I wouldn't anything past him bar the common sense approach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 My worry is that the ease that we won the Championship last time makes Ashley think it wouldnt be disastrous if it happened again. The TV money covered by high profile sales. We would end up with a far weaker squad than last time and few if any of those left have the mentality of Nolan and co. Mind you the wage bill would plummet!! If we went down, unless we recruited well, I doubt we would come straight back up. I know that , you know that. But does Ashley ? I wouldn't anything past him bar the common sense approach. He doesnt give a fuck anyway man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 My worry is that the ease that we won the Championship last time makes Ashley think it wouldnt be disastrous if it happened again. The TV money covered by high profile sales. We would end up with a far weaker squad than last time and few if any of those left have the mentality of Nolan and co. Mind you the wage bill would plummet!! If we went down, unless we recruited well, I doubt we would come straight back up. I know that , you know that. But does Ashley ? I wouldn't anything past him bar the common sense approach. He doesnt give a f*** anyway man. You really think that? Very few Premiership supporters think their owners have much of a clue. Most owners do not do what the supporters want. Even amongst the most wealthy and successful clubs that is the case. Ashley has many millions invested here and imho he does give a huge f*ck about it. But it is going to be done his way, we will get some good things from that - and some bad. Right now there's no doubt which of the two ends of the range we are at. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Yeah the idea that he's somehow not incentivised to try to make a good fist of running the club irks me a bit. He's got more of an incentive than any of us, in that he stands to make, or lose, lots of millions of pounds depending on how we do. Relegation would be a financial catastrophe for him, not to mention the damage to his ego. People talk on here like he honestly couldn't give a flying fuck how the club does but he's absolutely up to his armpits in it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 And as for the idea that he'd happily gamble on relegation and re-promotion, on the eve of an enormous TV payout... it hardly warrants discussion. What an insane gamble that'd be Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 So he'll get in the players we need before Feb 1st. Phew. Cheers for letting us know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 We are only going to spend what we bring in unless there is a massive change of heart (something Pardew has clearly been pressing for). Still p*ssed off that the fallout from the Keegan debarcle saw Ashley saying f*** it, the plan was to throw an extra £20 million of my own money a year but I'm bollocked if I'm going to do it now. I'm fairly sympathetic to the reasons for him falling out of love for the project, but christ, think of the difference it would have made to us. You're sympathetic towards Ashley. He gets no sympathy from me, he could have prevented the situation but didn't. Right on the nose Mick - Ashley showed that he was a useless man manager in his handling of the KK situation. Anyone with any sense would have backed Keegan until the club was back on an even keel at least. Ashley is arrogant and lacks football knowledge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Whatever he does, he'd have to be a lunatic to think it'll be ok if he just lets us get relegated. Which was clearly my point Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Whatever he does, he'd have to be a lunatic to think it'll be ok if he just lets us get relegated. Which was clearly my point Well we agree, but my point is we'll see in the next 2 weeks. If we don't bring in a forward and a centre half then it doesn't matter if we stay up or not, he's taking the risk. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tollemache Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Whatever he does, he'd have to be a lunatic to think it'll be ok if he just lets us get relegated. Which was clearly my point Well we agree, but my point is we'll see in the next 2 weeks. If we don't bring in a forward and a centre half then it doesn't matter if we stay up or not, he's taking the risk. Or they are, as a group, yes. If nobody else comes in I'll be as pissed off as you because I don't think 2 windows of that kind of thing is acceptable, especially in the current climate. I think we're at the point where you make a Mertesacker-style exception to your transfer policy and just make sure you have the right bodies on the ground right now. I will be astounded if nobody else comes in, I really will, and I'll be royally fucked off, but I refuse to spit feathers until that deadline passes. With all the activity generally coming together right towards the end of the window each year, it'd just be a waste of energy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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