Ishmael Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Fault lines are developing within the Dutch squad over the alleged racist jeering at their open training session in Krakow this week. Mark van Bommel, the captain, initially reported it in the strongest terms, yet was not backed by his association, who declined to make an official complaint. Now in Kharkiv, ahead of Holland's opening game against Denmark, the head coach Bert van Marwijk said he could not be sure he heard anything racist at all, while sitting next to him Van Bommel stuck to his guns and said the whole team found the incident unpleasant. So, definite political maneuvering going on behind the scenes between UEFA and the Dutch FA then. On the BBC website footage van Marwijk is clearly stood with the players when the racist noises were being made, yet sat next to his captain(who had already released a statement making explicit that it happened) and denied it happening. In the meanwhile Ruud Gullit had done a press conference with the media opening on no uncertain terms, "yes, it happened. There were some monkey chants." Oh and then there was this prior hilarity: Uefa subsequently tried to deny that it was racially motivated, saying they had checked with the Dutch squad and had been told it was not thought to be of that nature. Instead, the official line is that a small part of the crowd was protesting about the fact that Krakow had not been made one of the host cities. Another theory that has been put forward is that Wisla's supporters did not want their stadium being used by anyone but their own club and were simply booing the Dutch players. Rather confusing news from the Holland training camp. Although Mark van Bommel was pretty adamant the team's black players were racially abused – "You need to open your ears. If you did hear it, and don't want to hear it, that is even worse," he said – Uefa will not investigate further after the Dutch FA said it "did not believe the abuse was racially motivated". Do UEFA seriously take public as idiots? Rather shocking how the incident has been allowed to be watered down with denials, misinformation etc. etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Has this not been discussed to death in the Euro thread? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 There's a genuine likelihood that the dutch training incident wont be the last so this thread will no doubt bump back-up later on if there's already been a discussion on this. Plus the van Marwjick comments are fresh this morning, which prompted me to type out the post at which point I thought a thread for the topic area is justified. If it's not, then I guess n-o is a mini-UEFA? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Nobody from UEFA or FIFA takes any responsibility in their selection of host nations. These countries have huge issues with their views on human rights and prosecution of minorities. Those issues are to be well clear of the stadiums and not affect these competitions. Beyond me that this will be followed by Russia and Qatar hosting World Cups. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Can't international tournaments be seen as a vehicle for change or at the very least a means of raising awareness of issues such as racism? The only problem I have is the typical face saving bull-s***. Just admit there is a problem and be open about how you are trying to deal with it. First video in this link: http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16243485 . You can clearly hear monkey chanting when Vorm and co are warming up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Can't international tournaments be seen as a vehicle for change or at the very least a means of raising awareness of issues such as racism? The only problem I have is the typical face saving bull-s***. Just admit there is a problem and be open about how you are trying to deal with it. First video in this link: http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16243485 . You can clearly hear monkey chanting when Vorm and co are warming up. That's what I meant by responsibility. Platini and Blatter are so full of poorly written shit apologies and explanations instead of condemning these matters. It was the same thing when Suarez abused Evra, all of them explaining and showing understanding instead of condemning all sorts of racism. In my opinion, the extremist culture surrounding stadiums Poland and Ukraine should have been enough to not consider their bids. That's not saying these problems don't exist anywhere else, they do, but they seem to have excelled around football in these countries. Why reward them and tone things down? What sort of signal is that to the groups targeted? Unacceptable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Isn't the racist issue supposed to be comprised of small pockets of fans involved in minor incidents in general? I don't think that's enough to dismiss the Poland/Ukraine bid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Isn't the racist issue supposed to be comprised of small pockets of fans involved in minor incidents in general? I don't think that's enough to dismiss the Poland/Ukraine bid. From what I understand that's not really the case. These groups have infiltrated lots of supporter groups and taken over. Although my sources are news reports and my father who's working with these things. In my opinion, as long as there are racist and anti-semitic symbols visible in their stadiums, during top flight games, on a frequent basis, there is an issue that needs to be strongly considered if someone is to host a EC or WC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 UEFA and FIFA are usually rather pathetic on dealing with racist incidents, just look at some of the pathetic excuses for fines they've handed down over the years Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Geordie Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Not surprised UEFA have done this. They and FIFA have turned a blind eye to such a thing for too long. It's going to take a player or indeed a team walking off the pitch for them to face it and deal with it properly. They are are spineless as our own FA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 OK, so the authorities, this time its the turn of the Polish police force, seem happy to deny fan clashes as well: Russian and Ukrainian soccer fans scuffled briefly in the streets of Lviv in the early hours of Saturday after watching a Euro 2012 game in the city's fan zone, eyewitnesses said. Around 15 Russian fans left the zone and started shouting and swearing at a smaller group of Ukrainians, said Reuters photographer Marian Striltsiv. The two sides exchanged a few punches before local police quickly moved in and separated the combatants. No arrests were made. One picture taken by a local agency showed a man with blood streaming from his nose. Police denied there had been any violence and said they had prevented the two sides from fighting. NOTHING TO SEE HERE. MOVE ALONG PLEASE. NOTHING TO SEE HERE. Except the guy with blood streaming from his nose... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrenchWilliam Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 OK, so the authorities, this time its the turn of the Polish police force, seem happy to deny fan clashes as well: Russian and Ukrainian soccer fans scuffled briefly in the streets of Lviv in the early hours of Saturday after watching a Euro 2012 game in the city's fan zone, eyewitnesses said. Around 15 Russian fans left the zone and started shouting and swearing at a smaller group of Ukrainians, said Reuters photographer Marian Striltsiv. The two sides exchanged a few punches before local police quickly moved in and separated the combatants. No arrests were made. One picture taken by a local agency showed a man with blood streaming from his nose. Police denied there had been any violence and said they had prevented the two sides from fighting. NOTHING TO SEE HERE. MOVE ALONG PLEASE. NOTHING TO SEE HERE. Except the guy with blood streaming from his nose... About 20 people? Who even cares? There's bigger fights in town on a Friday and Saturday night. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Didn't realise police were in their rights to brush any public disorder under the rug if it only has 20 people involved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Sounds like you need to brush up on made up laws, bro. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Anti-racism experts say they identified racist abuse and far-right Russian flags during the second Euro 2012 match on Friday. The Football Against Racism in Europe (Fare) network says Czech Republic defender Theodor Gebre Selassie was racially abused during Russia's 4-1 win in Wroclaw. Fare director Piara Powar told AP that imperial "Russian Empire" flags were displayed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Craig-NUFC Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Anti-racism experts say they identified racist abuse and far-right Russian flags during the second Euro 2012 match on Friday. The Football Against Racism in Europe (Fare) network says Czech Republic defender Theodor Gebre Selassie was racially abused during Russia's 4-1 win in Wroclaw. Fare director Piara Powar told AP that imperial "Russian Empire" flags were displayed. Does that mean that if a British flag is seen in a Commonwealth nation, it's considered a racist attack against the once conquered? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Anti-racism experts say they identified racist abuse and far-right Russian flags during the second Euro 2012 match on Friday. The Football Against Racism in Europe (Fare) network says Czech Republic defender Theodor Gebre Selassie was racially abused during Russia's 4-1 win in Wroclaw. Fare director Piara Powar told AP that imperial "Russian Empire" flags were displayed. Does that mean that if a British flag is seen in a Commonwealth nation, it's considered a racist attack against the once conquered? That's different, U.S.S.R related insignia etc. is illegal in Poland iirc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Craig-NUFC Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Anti-racism experts say they identified racist abuse and far-right Russian flags during the second Euro 2012 match on Friday. The Football Against Racism in Europe (Fare) network says Czech Republic defender Theodor Gebre Selassie was racially abused during Russia's 4-1 win in Wroclaw. Fare director Piara Powar told AP that imperial "Russian Empire" flags were displayed. Does that mean that if a British flag is seen in a Commonwealth nation, it's considered a racist attack against the once conquered? That's different, U.S.S.R related insignia etc. is illegal in Poland iirc. I was thinking more along the lines of the old yellow and black Russian Empire flag. A quick google brings up that flag with white power symbols on it, so I think I get the offence now... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Far right russian flags not the russian national flag. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aphrodite Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I think the media have created a culture now where people are determined to prove that Ukraine and Poland shouldn't host a major competition, so it wouldn't surprise me to see incidents becoming overblown and overshadowing the tournament. Apart from the training ground incident (which was terrible) I've seen nothing to suggest that there's any risk of it spilling over into the main tournament. It was only a decade ago that our fans were smashing up town squares abroad so I don't know when we became moral arbiters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I think the media have created a culture now where people are determined to prove that Ukraine and Poland shouldn't host a major competition, so it wouldn't surprise me to see incidents becoming overblown and overshadowing the tournament. Apart from the training ground incident (which was terrible) I've seen nothing to suggest that there's any risk of it spilling over into the main tournament. It was only a decade ago that our fans were smashing up town squares abroad so I don't know when we became moral arbiters. When we stopped having racist incidents in football!... oh. wait. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 t was only a decade ago that our fans were smashing up town squares abroad so I don't know when we became moral arbiters. AND LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE! Silly stance to be had imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 And it isn't just the mainstream British media that is bring the incidents to our attention. In fact, they're not particularly active on anything outside of the stuff covered in panorama. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 With reports of hooliganism, fights, racist behaviour and now, a murder in the news, this tournament could end up being remembered for all the wrong reasons. UEFA/FIFA will probably turn a blind eye on most of this as unfortunately, the main thing they care about is the money. Morals have been thrown out the window and with Russia hosting the World Cup in 2018, things could potentially get worse if proper, authoritative action isn't taken. I'm aware that it's only the minority who are causing trouble but even a small group of people can ruin everything. As it stands, the only course of action I can see UEFA/FIFA taking, if the behaviour gets out of hand, is to just fine the two FAs and that's quite a weak response imho. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aphrodite Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 t was only a decade ago that our fans were smashing up town squares abroad so I don't know when we became moral arbiters. AND LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE! Silly stance to be had imo. I'm not saying these things are acceptable but people are extrapolating small incidents to be representative of the whole population. The media have had an agenda for the past few years that Eastern Europe is too 'backwards' to host a major event and I feel that people are playing in with it a bit. Why was no-one saying Euro 2000 was a failure because this happened? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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