mrmojorisin75 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Spudil nails it there like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I'll just point it out now to quote it in the future. The exact people who now brush problems like HBA not being in the team under the carpet , because we won the games in question, are the same people who brushed all of the problems in the 5th place season under the carpet because we were winning games then for the most part It's as if football is so simple to these people that if you win/ are winning everything is pretty much 100% right as rain. So we've won two very good games with a hard working, plucky 4-4-2 preforming exactly the same way as we did in the season where we finished 5th. Just like then when the football was clearly not sustainable medium/long term, it is not now. Shola Ameobi and Obertan getting minutes over HBA? Come on. If you can't see the problems with getting excited over these two wins after witnessing the last two seasons unfold, I feel for ya bro. If you do see the problems and are just hoping these issues will be addressed then fair enough, but at this point it's just hope because despite AP winning two admittedly, very tough games - the same problems that have always been there are still there. I think you're massively insulting peoples' intelligence there TBH. Not much that's been said about our problems or lack of them is motivated by a couple of wins, just like everything isn't the apocalypse after a couple of defeats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I'll just point it out now to quote it in the future. The exact people who now brush problems like HBA not being in the team under the carpet , because we won the games in question, are the same people who brushed all of the problems in the 5th place season under the carpet because we were winning games then for the most part It's as if football is so simple to these people that if you win/ are winning everything is pretty much 100% right as rain. So we've won two very good games with a hard working, plucky 4-4-2 preforming exactly the same way as we did in the season where we finished 5th. Just like then when the football was clearly not sustainable medium/long term, it is not now. Shola Ameobi and Obertan getting minutes over HBA? Come on. If you can't see the problems with getting excited over these two wins after witnessing the last two seasons unfold, I feel for ya bro. If you do see the problems and are just hoping these issues will be addressed then fair enough, but at this point it's just hope because despite AP winning two admittedly, very tough games - the same problems that have always been there are still there. Ugh. Fucking sanctimonious drivel. 'Bro' in there, too. #legend Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Rekt again #bro #easy #mad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I'll just point it out now to quote it in the future. The exact people who now brush problems like HBA not being in the team under the carpet , because we won the games in question, are the same people who brushed all of the problems in the 5th place season under the carpet because we were winning games then for the most part It's as if football is so simple to these people that if you win/ are winning everything is pretty much 100% right as rain. So we've won two very good games with a hard working, plucky 4-4-2 preforming exactly the same way as we did in the season where we finished 5th. Just like then when the football was clearly not sustainable medium/long term, it is not now. Shola Ameobi and Obertan getting minutes over HBA? Come on. If you can't see the problems with getting excited over these two wins after witnessing the last two seasons unfold, I feel for ya bro. If you do see the problems and are just hoping these issues will be addressed then fair enough, but at this point it's just hope because despite AP winning two admittedly, very tough games - the same problems that have always been there are still there. What worries me more is that Sunderland players are all coming out in public and saying how they feel more confident in the possession and passing style they are being coached in by Poyet, and their recent results are pretty good as well same as ours, except they've got a squad which looked nailed on for relegation a couple of weeks back. There will be a real sense of hope and progress over there right now, all I am feeling is we're stuck with more hit and miss results with us yo-yo-ing from one style to another depending on our last result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I've said it once and I'll again - you play your best players from the start, not from the bench. Staying tight for 70 minutes and chucking your attacking players on with 20 minutes to go isn't good tactics or man management, it's cowardice from someone who is scared to lose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 A post about knee-jerk reactions to wins followed by a post about how Sunderland have turned things around? Strange. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I'll just point it out now to quote it in the future. The exact people who now brush problems like HBA not being in the team under the carpet , because we won the games in question, are the same people who brushed all of the problems in the 5th place season under the carpet because we were winning games then for the most part It's as if football is so simple to these people that if you win/ are winning everything is pretty much 100% right as rain. So we've won two very good games with a hard working, plucky 4-4-2 preforming exactly the same way as we did in the season where we finished 5th. Just like then when the football was clearly not sustainable medium/long term, it is not now. Shola Ameobi and Obertan getting minutes over HBA? Come on. If you can't see the problems with getting excited over these two wins after witnessing the last two seasons unfold, I feel for ya bro. If you do see the problems and are just hoping these issues will be addressed then fair enough, but at this point it's just hope because despite AP winning two admittedly, very tough games - the same problems that have always been there are still there. Ugh. Fucking sanctimonious drivel. 'Bro' in there, too. #legend Nothing to do with his post tbh. Why don't you try to discuss the very valid points he makes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 A post about knee-jerk reactions to wins followed by a post about how Sunderland have turned things around? Strange. If you read any of my previous posts about Poyet you'd know it's not that strange at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 A post about knee-jerk reactions to wins followed by a post about how Sunderland have turned things around? Strange. If you read any of my previous posts about Poyet you'd know it's not that strange at all. I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of people's previous posts I'm afraid. Even if you rate Poyet, which I guess is what you mean, surely the point still stands? The signs are in the right direction but he's proved absolutely nothing yet. I could just as easily say I rate Pardew and Spurs/Chelsea is proof that I was right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I've said it once and I'll again - you play your best players from the start, not from the bench. Staying tight for 70 minutes and chucking your attacking players on with 20 minutes to go isn't good tactics or man management, it's cowardice from someone who is scared to lose. You play your best team, not your best individuals. The vast majority of managers in world football would include HBA in their best team over Shola like Where would Tony Pulis' Stoke be if they didn't play 4 shite centre backs and fucking Rory Delap for about 3 or 4 seasons? You could put all the quality you want in that side but it wouldn't be fit for purpose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Shola Ameobi and Obertan getting minutes over HBA? Come on. Especially when the logic doesn't make sense. Obertan was brought on over HBA to help protect the left side and it actually ended up weakening us. In that instance, there was literally no excuse for not bringing on Ben Arfa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Shola Ameobi and Obertan getting minutes over HBA? Come on. Especially when the logic doesn't make sense. Obertan was brought on over HBA to help protect the left side and it actually ended up weakening us. In that instance, there was literally no excuse for not bringing on Ben Arfa. Wasn't Obertan just brought on because he runs around a lot and threatens (sort of) on the break? I love HBA more than anyone but I don't think it really matters that Obertan was brought on in this specific situation. You know that it doesn't mean Pardew thinks he's better than Ben Arfa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I think you're massively insulting peoples' intelligence there TBH. Not much that's been said about our problems or lack of them is motivated by a couple of wins, just like everything isn't the apocalypse after a couple of defeats. OK but feel free to say "OK so the football was not sustainable in the season we finished 5th but the winning formula we've seen against Spurs and Chelsea is different because of X" To me it looks more or less the same even player by player : Gouff for Jonas - very similar swap. Ameobi/Best. Sissoko/Obertan - fulfilling the same role. Remy/Ba ect. Just sayin' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Hold on didn't Sunderland lose to Hull a week ago? because they beat a team they seemingly always beat doesn't mean they have suddenly turned a corner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I think you're massively insulting peoples' intelligence there TBH. Not much that's been said about our problems or lack of them is motivated by a couple of wins, just like everything isn't the apocalypse after a couple of defeats. OK but feel free to say "OK so the football was not sustainable in the season we finished 5th but the winning formula we've seen against Spurs and Chelsea is different because of X" To me it looks more or less the same even player by player : Gouff for Jonas - very similar swap. Ameobi/Best. Sissoko/Obertan - fulfilling the same role. Remy/Ba ect. Just sayin' All I would claim is that we found an approach we thought gave us the best chance of beating those two sides and it worked. It wouldn't work every time, but then neither would opening up and attacking them. I don't draw any sweeping conclusions about our season as a whole. I agree that against lesser sides we should go for it more. To me it seems like the negative opinions about Pardew have almost been projected onto these two results and made them seem worse than they actually are. Like they are proof of Pardew's "unsustainable" approach (without suggesting a better one) instead of two great organised wins against good sides. Aye, everyone would rather HBA was playing every week and ripping up the league. But he wasn't doing that, so he's come out of the team for a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Hold on didn't Sunderland lose to Hull a week ago? because they beat a team they seemingly always beat doesn't mean they have suddenly turned a corner. Exactly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 A post about knee-jerk reactions to wins followed by a post about how Sunderland have turned things around? Strange. If you read any of my previous posts about Poyet you'd know it's not that strange at all. I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of people's previous posts I'm afraid. Even if you rate Poyet, which I guess is what you mean, surely the point still stands? The signs are in the right direction but he's proved absolutely nothing yet. I could just as easily say I rate Pardew and Spurs/Chelsea is proof that I was right. No one is saying who is right and who is wrong based on a couple of results, that would be pretty pointless. Poyet might still take Sunderland down yet, but I thought a few months back that he would be a good fit for us because his type of football would fit our more technical players. That goes beyond graphs, stats or a couple of unexpected wins. Now if the Pardites really believe he's the man to take us forward, why not put forward the reasons why? Unless you think good man management will win us games every time. The only stuff they come up with is "FFS would you prefer JFK in charge??" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 The simple fact is that what we are doing is not sustainable at all. This is the ceiling for Pardew. The 4-4-2/Shola functioning team,try to nick a goal then ride our luck and hope for the best from individuals. It is reminiscent of the 5th season and thats great when you get a lot of things going your way. That will not happen again and it can easily turn into last season. Its not good enough. Do you think he'll keep trying this against everyone in every situation though? If he does then we can revisit this argument obviously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 A post about knee-jerk reactions to wins followed by a post about how Sunderland have turned things around? Strange. If you read any of my previous posts about Poyet you'd know it's not that strange at all. I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of people's previous posts I'm afraid. Even if you rate Poyet, which I guess is what you mean, surely the point still stands? The signs are in the right direction but he's proved absolutely nothing yet. I could just as easily say I rate Pardew and Spurs/Chelsea is proof that I was right. No one is saying who is right and who is wrong based on a couple of results, that would be pretty pointless. Poyet might still take Sunderland down yet, but I thought a few months back that he would be a good fit for us because his type of football would fit our more technical players. That goes beyond graphs, stats or a couple of unexpected wins. Now if the Pardites really believe he's the man to take us forward, why not put forward the reasons why? Unless you think good man management will win us games every time. The only stuff they come up with is "FFS would you prefer JFK in charge??" No one is a fucking 'Pardite', nor are they claiming he is the man to take us forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Aye, everyone would rather HBA was playing every week and ripping up the league. But he wasn't doing that, so he's come out of the team for a while. isn't this the crux? the fact that he probably should be but is being 'prevented' from doing so by our shit manager, his terrible tactics and being left out of the team for gabriel obertan? that's my view on the HBA thing, players don't perform in isolation to what's going on around them, especially not flair players like HBA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 A post about knee-jerk reactions to wins followed by a post about how Sunderland have turned things around? Strange. If you read any of my previous posts about Poyet you'd know it's not that strange at all. I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of people's previous posts I'm afraid. Even if you rate Poyet, which I guess is what you mean, surely the point still stands? The signs are in the right direction but he's proved absolutely nothing yet. I could just as easily say I rate Pardew and Spurs/Chelsea is proof that I was right. No one is saying who is right and who is wrong based on a couple of results, that would be pretty pointless. Poyet might still take Sunderland down yet, but I thought a few months back that he would be a good fit for us because his type of football would fit our more technical players. That goes beyond graphs, stats or a couple of unexpected wins. Now if the Pardites really believe he's the man to take us forward, why not put forward the reasons why? Unless you think good man management will win us games every time. The only stuff they come up with is "FFS would you prefer JFK in charge??" No one is a fucking 'Pardite', nor are they claiming he is the man to take us forward. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. He's shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Aye, everyone would rather HBA was playing every week and ripping up the league. But he wasn't doing that, so he's come out of the team for a while. isn't this the crux? the fact that he probably should be but is being 'prevented' from doing so by our shit manager, his terrible tactics and being left out of the team for gabriel obertan? that's my view on the HBA thing, players don't perform in isolation to what's going on around them, especially not flair players like HBA So, this mercurial talent, with a vast history of inconsistency, only ever plays badly because of his manager. How does he ever play well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 A post about knee-jerk reactions to wins followed by a post about how Sunderland have turned things around? Strange. If you read any of my previous posts about Poyet you'd know it's not that strange at all. I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of people's previous posts I'm afraid. Even if you rate Poyet, which I guess is what you mean, surely the point still stands? The signs are in the right direction but he's proved absolutely nothing yet. I could just as easily say I rate Pardew and Spurs/Chelsea is proof that I was right. No one is saying who is right and who is wrong based on a couple of results, that would be pretty pointless. Poyet might still take Sunderland down yet, but I thought a few months back that he would be a good fit for us because his type of football would fit our more technical players. That goes beyond graphs, stats or a couple of unexpected wins. Now if the Pardites really believe he's the man to take us forward, why not put forward the reasons why? Unless you think good man management will win us games every time. The only stuff they come up with is "FFS would you prefer JFK in charge??" No one is a fucking 'Pardite', nor are they claiming he is the man to take us forward. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. He's shit. Fucking strange way to do it, like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 No one is a fucking 'Pardite', nor are they claiming he is the man to take us forward. i don't think anyone is staunchly anti-pardew either, to the point of being stubborn about the man - spudil has made very valid points about the last 2 games tbh but they're just glossed over for some reason we're analysing 2 good results and comparing that with our previous performances under pardew, some people are ignoring the validity of the concerns (as they did when we were almost relegated) and choosing to shout it down as negativity you improve at anything by looking at where it is you can improve, not by saying "that was mint eh" and putting your fucking feet up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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