Dave Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Pardew, and the players, have under performed. No question about it. But last season they also over achieved. Given the injuries, and the number of new players, and the extra games, it was going to throw us off our rhythm. Pardew has shown enough in the past to be worth another season. He earned it. IF he can't turn it around, maybe then think about a change, but right now it's a bad idea. We need to settle back into a winning rhythm again. We need a consistent, regular, back 4. We need the midfield and forward line to gel. Our "purple" players need time to recover from injuries and fatigue. We don't need any more disruptive factors. We need to regroup and rebuild confidence. ...is what the result of the post-season review will be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Maybe somehow we stay up. Maybe somehow, against all odds, Pardew stays. Maybe somehow, over the course of the summer, he signs some more players (strikers, defence, whatever) - and he ships out Jonas, Shola, Williamson and brings in some quality. Maybe he has some sort of miraculous conversionary experience and becomes a football management genius and we see an unprecedented rise up the table. Will he be forgiven for the diabolical s**** he served up this year? Will we ever grow to like or appreciate the man at all? Can't see it. I would have forgave f*cking Souness if he turned it around but just like with Souness its never going to happen in a million years. Neither have it in them, so sack the twat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 We need to gut the club of the current coaching staff, or at the very least the bloke at the top. The players have quite clearly lost complete faith in him, the football hasn't progressed in the slightest since he took over and there is absolutely no sign of it happening any time soon. I see no reason to stick with this charade. It's not going to improve anytime soon. Need new ideas and new energy from a forward thinking coach with a whole pre-season to repair. It's the only thing to stop this slide (or at best total apathetic malaise). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 So the players are blameless? Everyone is to blame though Which is fair enough tbh Ultimately, the buck stops with him as the manager of the club. Blame can be mentioned elsewhere but whilst the performance of the players hasn't been up to scratch, a lot of the blame towards them has been attributed to Pardew failing them rather than the other way around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Ladies and gentlemen..... Mike's drinking buddy.... Trevor Francis! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Pardew, and the players, have under performed. No question about it. But last season they also over achieved. Given the injuries, and the number of new players, and the extra games, it was going to throw us off our rhythm. Pardew has shown enough in the past to be worth another season. He earned it. IF he can't turn it around, maybe then think about a change, but right now it's a bad idea. We need to settle back into a winning rhythm again. We need a consistent, regular, back 4. We need the midfield and forward line to gel. Our "purple" players need time to recover from injuries and fatigue. We don't need any more disruptive factors. We need to regroup and rebuild confidence. When was this, sorry? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 We need to gut the club of the current coaching staff, or at the very least the bloke at the top. The players have quite clearly lost complete faith in him, the football hasn't progressed in the slightest since he took over and there is absolutely no sign of it happening any time soon. I see no reason to stick with this charade. It's not going to improve anytime soon. Need new ideas and new energy from a forward thinking coach with a whole pre-season to repair. It's the only thing to stop this slide (or at best total apathetic malaise). Based on? What makes you think the failure to perform comes from the players' relationship with Pardew and not any of the other possible reasons: adjusting to the Premier League, injuries, fatigue due to too small a squad, lack of confidence in general. I'm not suggesting Pardew shouldn't be dealing with those issues too, but curious what evidence you have to suggest that the players don't want to play for Pardew? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Pardew, and the players, have under performed. No question about it. But last season they also over achieved. Given the injuries, and the number of new players, and the extra games, it was going to throw us off our rhythm. Pardew has shown enough in the past to be worth another season. He earned it. IF he can't turn it around, maybe then think about a change, but right now it's a bad idea. We need to settle back into a winning rhythm again. We need a consistent, regular, back 4. We need the midfield and forward line to gel. Our "purple" players need time to recover from injuries and fatigue. We don't need any more disruptive factors. We need to regroup and rebuild confidence. When was this, sorry? 5th place finish. Did I dream it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 We need to gut the club of the current coaching staff, or at the very least the bloke at the top. The players have quite clearly lost complete faith in him, the football hasn't progressed in the slightest since he took over and there is absolutely no sign of it happening any time soon. I see no reason to stick with this charade. It's not going to improve anytime soon. Need new ideas and new energy from a forward thinking coach with a whole pre-season to repair. It's the only thing to stop this slide (or at best total apathetic malaise). Based on? What makes you think the failure to perform comes from the players' relationship with Pardew and not any of the other possible reasons: adjusting to the Premier League, injuries, fatigue due to too small a squad, lack of confidence in general. I'm not suggesting Pardew shouldn't be dealing with those issues too, but curious what evidence you have to suggest that the players don't want to play for Pardew? Intuition. I can't prove it, I just think it and that it seeps through into every area of our game. Even if they haven't; and they're all blissfully happy under his tactics, coaching and general tutelage then I still think he should be sacked because our football is fucking pants. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Pardew, and the players, have under performed. No question about it. But last season they also over achieved. Given the injuries, and the number of new players, and the extra games, it was going to throw us off our rhythm. Pardew has shown enough in the past to be worth another season. He earned it. IF he can't turn it around, maybe then think about a change, but right now it's a bad idea. We need to settle back into a winning rhythm again. We need a consistent, regular, back 4. We need the midfield and forward line to gel. Our "purple" players need time to recover from injuries and fatigue. We don't need any more disruptive factors. We need to regroup and rebuild confidence. When was this, sorry? 5th place finish. Did I dream it? No, but then I didn't dream Martin O'Neill and Sam Allardyce finishing in similar positions consistently. It's really not that much of an achievement to do it once and then collapse. And the football absolutely stank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 We need to gut the club of the current coaching staff, or at the very least the bloke at the top. The players have quite clearly lost complete faith in him, the football hasn't progressed in the slightest since he took over and there is absolutely no sign of it happening any time soon. I see no reason to stick with this charade. It's not going to improve anytime soon. Need new ideas and new energy from a forward thinking coach with a whole pre-season to repair. It's the only thing to stop this slide (or at best total apathetic malaise). Based on? What makes you think the failure to perform comes from the players' relationship with Pardew and not any of the other possible reasons: adjusting to the Premier League, injuries, fatigue due to too small a squad, lack of confidence in general. I'm not suggesting Pardew shouldn't be dealing with those issues too, but curious what evidence you have to suggest that the players don't want to play for Pardew? Intuition. I can't prove it, I just think it and that it seeps through into every area of our game. Even if they haven't; and they're all blissfully happy under his tactics, coaching and general tutelage then I still think he should be sacked because our football is fucking pants. Fair enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Pardew, and the players, have under performed. No question about it. But last season they also over achieved. Given the injuries, and the number of new players, and the extra games, it was going to throw us off our rhythm. Pardew has shown enough in the past to be worth another season. He earned it. IF he can't turn it around, maybe then think about a change, but right now it's a bad idea. We need to settle back into a winning rhythm again. We need a consistent, regular, back 4. We need the midfield and forward line to gel. Our "purple" players need time to recover from injuries and fatigue. We don't need any more disruptive factors. We need to regroup and rebuild confidence. When was this, sorry? 5th place finish. Did I dream it? No, but then I didn't dream Martin O'Neill and Sam Allardyce finishing in similar positions consistently. It's really not that much of an achievement to do it once and then collapse. And the football absolutely stank. Conversely, the new Man United manager has had some shitty seasons with Everton where they practically dropped off the map. There's no way of knowing which way Pardew will go unless he's given the chance of another season at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Yes, but Moyes had a much worse squad. That's not a like for like argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Conversely, the new Man United manager has had some shitty seasons with Everton where they practically dropped off the map. There's no way of knowing which way Pardew will go unless he's given the chance of another season at least. His CV is a pretty good indication tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Look, it's pretty clear that calamity awaits if we stick with Pardew. Why give him another half season, and essentially write it off before it has even begun? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Pardew, and the players, have under performed. No question about it. But last season they also over achieved. Given the injuries, and the number of new players, and the extra games, it was going to throw us off our rhythm. Pardew has shown enough in the past to be worth another season. He earned it. IF he can't turn it around, maybe then think about a change, but right now it's a bad idea. We need to settle back into a winning rhythm again. We need a consistent, regular, back 4. We need the midfield and forward line to gel. Our "purple" players need time to recover from injuries and fatigue. We don't need any more disruptive factors. We need to regroup and rebuild confidence. When was this, sorry? 5th place finish. Did I dream it? No, but then I didn't dream Martin O'Neill and Sam Allardyce finishing in similar positions consistently. It's really not that much of an achievement to do it once and then collapse. And the football absolutely stank. Conversely, the new Man United manager has had some shitty seasons with Everton where they practically dropped off the map. There's no way of knowing which way Pardew will go unless he's given the chance of another season at least. Well, he had one, about ten years ago. And he was very new to top flight management at that point, unlike Pardew who had his chance in the Premier League, blew it, and subsequently dropped down, first to the Championship, got sacked, and then to League One, on account of being shite. It was a very natural progression, like many managers and players before him, simply not up to it. Moyes also bought his own players which makes the whole argument about him a complete nonsense comparison. We're not going to stop buying technical players from the continent. What benefit are we getting from giving them to a manager who has always, and will always, favour the long ball game? If the best thing you can say about someone in football is that "we don't know how he'll do", then you can safely assume that he's not the man for the job. I can't guarantee that if we put (e.g.) Obertan out every week, he won't become the best player in the league. But I can make a fair assumption based on what I've seen, here and elsewhere, that he will be catastrophically shit. Same applies to the manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Only just seen the new quotes. I think he's definitely gone now. Get the impression from those quotes that he hasn't had much contact with the men above him recently and taking swipes at Ashley doesn't seem the smartest move. Almost sounded like the excuses you hear from a manger after they have been sacked the way he is shifting the blame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Look, it's pretty clear that calamity awaits if we stick with Pardew. Why give him another half season, and essentially write it off before it has even begun? People are giving their reasons. Numerous times, in fact. Asking the same question again and again isn't going to achieve anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 And in his managerial career, which has been long enough to give a very good indication, when has Pardew shown any consistency? Decent season followed by a disastrous one, then a sacking, is pretty much the formula he has stuck with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 The reasons seem full of leaks to say the least. I'm still waiting to hear a reasonable one. And I'll be likely waiting until the sun burns up its remaining hydrogen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 The reasons seem full of leaks to say the least. I'm still waiting to hear a reasonable one. That's fine. It'll be because you don't agree. The repetition, when stated as fact, gets a bit boring though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 The other thing that makes the Pardew and Moyes comparison flawed is simply that Moyes had no history of having one good season and struggling to build on it. Pardew's career is littered with one good season and then when things go bad he's incapable of turning it around, this isn't the case with Moyes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 It has little to do with whether I agree with you or not. I've changed my opinion many times in my life when I've heard a reasonable argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucaAltieri Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 I disagree. There are lots of moving parts to a club. While some good players may not fit in at one club and go on to be excellent elsewhere I think the same can be said for managers. I'm going to judge Pardew solely on his NUFC career because that's the only thing that's relevant. He seems to have a good working relationship with the club and the internal workings, including their transfer and development policies. Last season it all came together nicely and worked out well. This season it didn't. There's no guarantee that next season will be a calamity just as there are no guarantees he will turn it around again either. The one thing we do know for sure is that there isn't a long line of top class managers queuing up outside St. James waiting to take over. With fewer games this next season, and the chance for players to recover over the summer, as well as any reinforcements that come in, I'm optimistic. The one thing that's pure fantasy is that Pardew will be sacked, another top class manager will come in, and be given a bag of cash to turn it into his team. It's just not going to happen. I think Pardew deserves another crack at it. Even if you don't agree, it's still the most reasonable option in terms of our finances and our limited recruiting potential. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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