Ched Evans - Not Guilty

[mrmojorisin75]

The main point, regardless of whether she gave consent or not, is whether she was in a sound state of mind in order to do so.

 

That to me is extremely dodgy and open to interpretation.

 

I've been wondering how the whole thing might have went down like:

 

Hi I woke up in a hotel room at 11.30 after drinking shitloads of booze and don't remember what happened. I was naked and I'd pissed the bed. I think I had sex as well but don't remember.

 

(Rape test later presumably confirms sex with 2 people and no signs of violence, no signs of roofies or whatever, the two people involved are identified)

 

Did you consent to have sex with the 2 guys? I don't know, I was very drunk and have zero recollection of the events whatsoever. I absolutely cannot say I did or did not consent to sex with either guy.

 

OK love I'm very sorry but the two guys involved state you consented to have sex with both of them, in the absence of any recollection from your side, and no signs of sexual violence or coercion I'm afraid there's very little we can do here.

 

 

...

Isn't that how it should have went? Surely.

[Guest RJberger]

The main point, regardless of whether she gave consent or not, is whether she was in a sound state of mind in order to do so.

 

That to me is extremely dodgy and open to interpretation.

 

Maybe not, but is a drunk teenager supposed to judge whether or not a girl really wants to or if its the alcohol talking.  Surely thats the whole point with alcohol for alot of boys and girls alike, to have something to blame it on.

[Parky]

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[Guest RJberger]

The main point, regardless of whether she gave consent or not, is whether she was in a sound state of mind in order to do so.

 

That to me is extremely dodgy and open to interpretation.

 

I've been wondering how the whole thing might have went down like:

 

Hi I woke up in a hotel room at 11.30 after drinking shitloads of booze and don't remember what happened. I was naked and I'd p*ssed the bed. I think I had sex as well but don't remember.

 

(Rape test later presumably confirms sex with 2 people and no signs of violence, no signs of roofies or whatever, the two people involved are identified)

 

Did you consent to have sex with the 2 guys? I don't know, I was very drunk and have zero recollection of the events whatsoever. I absolutely cannot say I did or did not consent to sex with either guy.

 

OK love I'm very sorry but the two guys involved state you consented to have sex with both of them, in the absence of any recollection from your side, and no signs of sexual violence or coercion I'm afraid there's very little we can do here.

 

 

...

Isn't that how it should have went? Surely.

 

Any sane being would argue this. But in todays PC climate the conclusion = " you cant remember consenting? Well thats rape then - you should report them etc".  You got drunk, went home with a guy and ended up having sex. Thats life.  Dont want to have drunken sex, simple 1. dont get that drunk and 2. Dont go home with a bloke.  If you go home with a guy he is going to attempt to shag you, you are free to say so and go home. If you are so drunk that are unable to object then obviously the guy SHOULD know better but in reality this rarely happens. Does it make him a bit of an arsehole if he is sober enough to see it? Yes, but locking him up for several years and labelling him as a sex offender is very very harsh. Im sure most of us would have experienced similar without never really having had that intention.

[sixx]

 

 

Fair enough. Im a bit of a chauvinist, so Im not really bothered.

The price to pay for gender equality is taking responsibility for your actions, something young women today seldom tends to do.

 

Shag around enough times, you are bound to get a negative experience sooner or later.

 

Nah, that post is just really grim, and a really weird attitude to take. Essentially well if have sex a lot you're bound to have something bad happen. That's total nonsense. Also the "young women don't take responsibility for their actions". Based on what? The same way young men don't  I imagine. Anyway It's a depressing viewpoint and you've identified yourself as a chauvinist so that's your opinion.I just don't happen to agree with it, and find it pretty grim. But I don't wanna debate it tbh.

 

f***ing hell man, that's really grim that.

 

Think you might have been misinterpreting me. Rape is a very serious crime and should be treated as such.  My problem lies with the semi-consentual intercource which the girl decides wasnt really consentual at all the day after and files for rape.

 

Nah, that post is just really grim, and a really weird attitude to take. Essentially well if have sex a lot you're bound to have something bad happen. That's total nonsense. Also the "young women don't take responsibility for their actions". Based on what? The same way young men don't  I imagine. Anyway It's a depressing viewpoint and you've identified yourself as a chauvinist so that's your opinion.I just don't happen to agree with it, and find it pretty grim. But I don't wanna debate it tbh.

 

Its a grim world out there, and alot of men do take advantage if the opportunity presents itself. Shag around like a tramp and sooner or later you will get a negative experience. Does that excuse the man in any way? No, but if you get obscenely drunk and end up in hotel rooms time and time again to a certain extent you have yourself to thank as well, sorry thats just how I see it.  You gotta face the reality of how the world works, even though in a perfect world a drunk woman should be left alone naked in a bed every single time. Agree to disagree 

 

Reading that was absolutely disgusting. I feel sick.

[Guest RJberger]

 

 

 

Fair enough. Im a bit of a chauvinist, so Im not really bothered.

The price to pay for gender equality is taking responsibility for your actions, something young women today seldom tends to do.

 

Shag around enough times, you are bound to get a negative experience sooner or later.

 

Nah, that post is just really grim, and a really weird attitude to take. Essentially well if have sex a lot you're bound to have something bad happen. That's total nonsense. Also the "young women don't take responsibility for their actions". Based on what? The same way young men don't  I imagine. Anyway It's a depressing viewpoint and you've identified yourself as a chauvinist so that's your opinion.I just don't happen to agree with it, and find it pretty grim. But I don't wanna debate it tbh.

 

f***ing hell man, that's really grim that.

 

Think you might have been misinterpreting me. Rape is a very serious crime and should be treated as such.  My problem lies with the semi-consentual intercource which the girl decides wasnt really consentual at all the day after and files for rape.

 

Nah, that post is just really grim, and a really weird attitude to take. Essentially well if have sex a lot you're bound to have something bad happen. That's total nonsense. Also the "young women don't take responsibility for their actions". Based on what? The same way young men don't  I imagine. Anyway It's a depressing viewpoint and you've identified yourself as a chauvinist so that's your opinion.I just don't happen to agree with it, and find it pretty grim. But I don't wanna debate it tbh.

 

Its a grim world out there, and alot of men do take advantage if the opportunity presents itself. Shag around like a tramp and sooner or later you will get a negative experience. Does that excuse the man in any way? No, but if you get obscenely drunk and end up in hotel rooms time and time again to a certain extent you have yourself to thank as well, sorry thats just how I see it.  You gotta face the reality of how the world works, even though in a perfect world a drunk woman should be left alone naked in a bed every single time. Agree to disagree 

 

Wow. I'm out tbh

 

Get out a bit and you would realise that in the real world you need to take precautions if you want to avoid stuff like this. Just because it wont be your fault doesnt mean you should look for trouble. I wouldnt like my girlfriend to walk around in certain areas at night, doesnt mean I would blame her if something was to happen other than simply being there. If you ever get kids and more specifically a daughter I think you will understand better where Im coming from 

[Stifler]

The main point, regardless of whether she gave consent or not, is whether she was in a sound state of mind in order to do so.

 

That to me is extremely dodgy and open to interpretation.

 

I've been wondering how the whole thing might have went down like:

 

Hi I woke up in a hotel room at 11.30 after drinking shitloads of booze and don't remember what happened. I was naked and I'd p*ssed the bed. I think I had sex as well but don't remember.

 

(Rape test later presumably confirms sex with 2 people and no signs of violence, no signs of roofies or whatever, the two people involved are identified)

 

Did you consent to have sex with the 2 guys? I don't know, I was very drunk and have zero recollection of the events whatsoever. I absolutely cannot say I did or did not consent to sex with either guy.

 

OK love I'm very sorry but the two guys involved state you consented to have sex with both of them, in the absence of any recollection from your side, and no signs of sexual violence or coercion I'm afraid there's very little we can do here.

 

 

...

Isn't that how it should have went? Surely.

 

Any sane being would argue this. But in todays PC climate the conclusion = " you cant remember consenting? Well thats rape then - you should report them etc".  You got drunk, went home with a guy and ended up having sex. Thats life.  Dont want to have drunken sex, simple 1. dont get that drunk and 2. Dont go home with a bloke.  If you go home with a guy he is going to attempt to shag you, you are free to say so and go home. If you are so drunk that are unable to object then obviously the guy SHOULD know better but in reality this rarely happens. Does it make him a bit of an arsehole if he is sober enough to see it? Yes, but locking him up for several years and labelling him as a sex offender is very very harsh. Im sure most of us would have experienced similar without never really having had that intention.

Pretty much this, if you consented to consume enough alcohol to put you in a situation where you can't remember then surely you are consenting to these sorts of possibilities.

 

Lets reverse the situation, what happens if a girl was more sober than a guy and the guy woke up with a big heffa next to him the next morning and runs like fuck. The guy is classed a dick for just running off yet no one blames the girl for taking advantage. How many bi-sexual or straight men get drunk and wake up with another guy next to them after getting so drunk?, who is to blame there, my guess is people will blame the straight guy for getting so drunk.

If you reverse the situation where a man is victim to the affects of alcohol no one says he was raped, if a girl does though then it's rape, double standards. Isn't it about time we started realising that women have just as much freedom to do what they want as men do and can be just as bad?

[Guest firetotheworks]

Oh good, Stifler's got something to say and lo-and-behold it's abhorrent and ignorant.

[Guest RJberger]

Spot on Stifler, which was excactly what I meant when I said girls need to take responsibility for their actions.

pissed lads will try to shag you if you go home with them, stop the press 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Anguish face.

[Guest RJberger]

 

LOL. The "real world" do me a favour. I've been out in the real world plenty mate. I don't need to have kids to know I don't agree with your viewpoint. I'm out anyway. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but I'm not wasting anymore time on it

 

Yeah, Im sure you would have fucking applauded your daughter for in an absolutely pissed state deciding to join two blokes in a hotel room at 4 AM , something good will come of that surely 

[mrmojorisin75]

Does anyone who has read that link KI posted think the lad should have gone down for rape? Genuine question.

[Greg]

Jesus fucking Christ.

[mrmojorisin75]

Jesus fucking Christ.

 

Is that directed at me?

[Guest firetotheworks]

Does anyone who has read that link KI posted think the lad should have gone down for rape? Genuine question.

 

Providing that the jury had to make a decision without reasonable doubt, no I don't think he should have. The opinions that have gone beyond that which are more in line with saying that she should have expected something bad to happen to her through getting pissed and sleeping around is honestly making me feel sick though. It's fucking revolting and those saying it should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

[mrmojorisin75]

Does anyone who has read that link KI posted think the lad should have gone down for rape? Genuine question.

 

Providing that the jury had to make a decision without reasonable doubt, no I don't think he should have. The opinions that have gone beyond that which are more in line with saying that she should have expected something bad to happen to her through getting pissed and sleeping around is honestly making me feel sick though. It's fucking revolting and those saying it should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

 

I'm not getting involved in that shit like, if that wasnt clear from my posts, I'm just genuinely astounded the lad went down.

 

[Greg]

Jesus fucking Christ.

 

Is that directed at me?

 

Absolutely not.

[Stifler]

Oh good, Stifler's got something to say and lo-and-behold it's abhorrent and ignorant.

How? I'm pointing out that there is a difference between the situation happening to a women and it happening to man. It happens to a women and the man is criminalised, it happens to a man and all of a sudden he shouldn't have been so drunk. If you want to maintain that drinking that much alcohol takes away your consent then fair enough, but apply it to everyone not just 1 gender. If not then we have to accept the potential responsibilities of being that drunk.

 

An interesting question has to be what if they were both equally as drunk and both couldn't consent because of their level of intoxication?

[mrmojorisin75]

Jesus fucking Christ.

 

Is that directed at me?

 

Absolutely not.

 

[Guest firetotheworks]

Does anyone who has read that link KI posted think the lad should have gone down for rape? Genuine question.

 

Providing that the jury had to make a decision without reasonable doubt, no I don't think he should have. The opinions that have gone beyond that which are more in line with saying that she should have expected something bad to happen to her through getting pissed and sleeping around is honestly making me feel sick though. It's fucking revolting and those saying it should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

 

I'm not getting involved in that shit like, if that want clear from my posts, I'm just genuinely astounded the lad went down.

 

Nah, I know it's not you at all like. I'm surprised that he went down providing that everything that's to know is in that link AND they and they had to make a decision without reasonable doubt. The more surprising thing is that his mate was found not guilty. That's truly baffling.

[mrmojorisin75]

 

 

Yeah there may very well be more to it all as that was dealing with the grounds for the appeal etc.

 

End of the day though what we do know is a man has been sent to prison without the slightest shred of evidence that a crime even took place

 

The lass herself doesn't even know if there was a crime. I can't get past it, I also can't understand why Evans isn't getting on every talk show or paper interview he can to make this very clear, he's got nothing to lose.

 

[Hanshithispantz]

The main point, regardless of whether she gave consent or not, is whether she was in a sound state of mind in order to do so.

 

That to me is extremely dodgy and open to interpretation.

 

I've been wondering how the whole thing might have went down like:

 

Hi I woke up in a hotel room at 11.30 after drinking shitloads of booze and don't remember what happened. I was naked and I'd p*ssed the bed. I think I had sex as well but don't remember.

 

(Rape test later presumably confirms sex with 2 people and no signs of violence, no signs of roofies or whatever, the two people involved are identified)

 

Did you consent to have sex with the 2 guys? I don't know, I was very drunk and have zero recollection of the events whatsoever. I absolutely cannot say I did or did not consent to sex with either guy.

 

OK love I'm very sorry but the two guys involved state you consented to have sex with both of them, in the absence of any recollection from your side, and no signs of sexual violence or coercion I'm afraid there's very little we can do here.

 

 

...

Isn't that how it should have went? Surely.

 

Any sane being would argue this. But in todays PC climate the conclusion = " you cant remember consenting? Well thats rape then - you should report them etc".  You got drunk, went home with a guy and ended up having sex. Thats life.  Dont want to have drunken sex, simple 1. dont get that drunk and 2. Dont go home with a bloke.  If you go home with a guy he is going to attempt to shag you, you are free to say so and go home. If you are so drunk that are unable to object then obviously the guy SHOULD know better but in reality this rarely happens. Does it make him a bit of an arsehole if he is sober enough to see it? Yes, but locking him up for several years and labelling him as a sex offender is very very harsh. Im sure most of us would have experienced similar without never really having had that intention.

Pretty much this, if you consented to consume enough alcohol to put you in a situation where you can't remember then surely you are consenting to these sorts of possibilities.

 

Lets reverse the situation, what happens if a girl was more sober than a guy and the guy woke up with a big heffa next to him the next morning and runs like fuck. The guy is classed a dick for just running off yet no one blames the girl for taking advantage. How many bi-sexual or straight men get drunk and wake up with another guy next to them after getting so drunk?, who is to blame there, my guess is people will blame the straight guy for getting so drunk.

If you reverse the situation where a man is victim to the affects of alcohol no one says he was raped, if a girl does though then it's rape, double standards. Isn't it about time we started realising that women have just as much freedom to do what they want as men do and can be just as bad?

How the fuck is it possible to hold such dangerously right wing viewpoints?

[Stifler]

The main point, regardless of whether she gave consent or not, is whether she was in a sound state of mind in order to do so.

 

That to me is extremely dodgy and open to interpretation.

 

I've been wondering how the whole thing might have went down like:

 

Hi I woke up in a hotel room at 11.30 after drinking shitloads of booze and don't remember what happened. I was naked and I'd p*ssed the bed. I think I had sex as well but don't remember.

 

(Rape test later presumably confirms sex with 2 people and no signs of violence, no signs of roofies or whatever, the two people involved are identified)

 

Did you consent to have sex with the 2 guys? I don't know, I was very drunk and have zero recollection of the events whatsoever. I absolutely cannot say I did or did not consent to sex with either guy.

 

OK love I'm very sorry but the two guys involved state you consented to have sex with both of them, in the absence of any recollection from your side, and no signs of sexual violence or coercion I'm afraid there's very little we can do here.

 

 

...

Isn't that how it should have went? Surely.

 

Any sane being would argue this. But in todays PC climate the conclusion = " you cant remember consenting? Well thats rape then - you should report them etc".  You got drunk, went home with a guy and ended up having sex. Thats life.  Dont want to have drunken sex, simple 1. dont get that drunk and 2. Dont go home with a bloke.  If you go home with a guy he is going to attempt to shag you, you are free to say so and go home. If you are so drunk that are unable to object then obviously the guy SHOULD know better but in reality this rarely happens. Does it make him a bit of an arsehole if he is sober enough to see it? Yes, but locking him up for several years and labelling him as a sex offender is very very harsh. Im sure most of us would have experienced similar without never really having had that intention.

Pretty much this, if you consented to consume enough alcohol to put you in a situation where you can't remember then surely you are consenting to these sorts of possibilities.

 

Lets reverse the situation, what happens if a girl was more sober than a guy and the guy woke up with a big heffa next to him the next morning and runs like fuck. The guy is classed a dick for just running off yet no one blames the girl for taking advantage. How many bi-sexual or straight men get drunk and wake up with another guy next to them after getting so drunk?, who is to blame there, my guess is people will blame the straight guy for getting so drunk.

If you reverse the situation where a man is victim to the affects of alcohol no one says he was raped, if a girl does though then it's rape, double standards. Isn't it about time we started realising that women have just as much freedom to do what they want as men do and can be just as bad?

How the fuck is it possible to hold such dangerously right wing viewpoints?

My points was showing the difference in accountability between genders, and if we are to assume being intoxicated makes you in able to consent then it should be equal across both genders and surely someone has take responsibility for being so drunk?

 

If being intoxicated means you can no longer consent then surely a lot of people will be guilty of rape by having a drunken 1 night stand, or even by having a few drinks with their partner and then having sex? You can't say being intoxicated and then having sex is rape and only apply it to women on a night out, if your going to do that then it has to be applied to everyone.

[Hanshithispantz]

The main point, regardless of whether she gave consent or not, is whether she was in a sound state of mind in order to do so.

 

That to me is extremely dodgy and open to interpretation.

 

I've been wondering how the whole thing might have went down like:

 

Hi I woke up in a hotel room at 11.30 after drinking shitloads of booze and don't remember what happened. I was naked and I'd p*ssed the bed. I think I had sex as well but don't remember.

 

(Rape test later presumably confirms sex with 2 people and no signs of violence, no signs of roofies or whatever, the two people involved are identified)

 

Did you consent to have sex with the 2 guys? I don't know, I was very drunk and have zero recollection of the events whatsoever. I absolutely cannot say I did or did not consent to sex with either guy.

 

OK love I'm very sorry but the two guys involved state you consented to have sex with both of them, in the absence of any recollection from your side, and no signs of sexual violence or coercion I'm afraid there's very little we can do here.

 

 

...

Isn't that how it should have went? Surely.

 

Any sane being would argue this. But in todays PC climate the conclusion = " you cant remember consenting? Well thats rape then - you should report them etc".  You got drunk, went home with a guy and ended up having sex. Thats life.  Dont want to have drunken sex, simple 1. dont get that drunk and 2. Dont go home with a bloke.  If you go home with a guy he is going to attempt to shag you, you are free to say so and go home. If you are so drunk that are unable to object then obviously the guy SHOULD know better but in reality this rarely happens. Does it make him a bit of an arsehole if he is sober enough to see it? Yes, but locking him up for several years and labelling him as a sex offender is very very harsh. Im sure most of us would have experienced similar without never really having had that intention.

Pretty much this, if you consented to consume enough alcohol to put you in a situation where you can't remember then surely you are consenting to these sorts of possibilities.

 

Lets reverse the situation, what happens if a girl was more sober than a guy and the guy woke up with a big heffa next to him the next morning and runs like fuck. The guy is classed a dick for just running off yet no one blames the girl for taking advantage. How many bi-sexual or straight men get drunk and wake up with another guy next to them after getting so drunk?, who is to blame there, my guess is people will blame the straight guy for getting so drunk.

If you reverse the situation where a man is victim to the affects of alcohol no one says he was raped, if a girl does though then it's rape, double standards. Isn't it about time we started realising that women have just as much freedom to do what they want as men do and can be just as bad?

How the fuck is it possible to hold such dangerously right wing viewpoints?

My points was showing the difference in accountability between genders, and if we are to assume being intoxicated makes you in able to consent then it should be equal across both genders and surely someone has take responsibility for being so drunk?

 

If being intoxicated means you can no longer consent then surely a lot of people will be guilty of rape by having a drunken 1 night stand, or even by having a few drinks with their partner and then having sex? You can't say being intoxicated and then having sex is rape and only apply it to women on a night out, if your going to do that then it has to be applied to everyone.

"if you consented to consume enough alcohol to put you in a situation where you can't remember then surely you are consenting to these sorts of possibilities" 

 

You're views are incredibly rigid, like. I cannot even be bothered to explain the differences between the 2 scenarios though, they're obvious, but if a bloke believes he was 'raped' he has every right to report it and it'll be dealt in the same manner as if a female was to.

[Stifler]

The main point, regardless of whether she gave consent or not, is whether she was in a sound state of mind in order to do so.

 

That to me is extremely dodgy and open to interpretation.

 

I've been wondering how the whole thing might have went down like:

 

Hi I woke up in a hotel room at 11.30 after drinking shitloads of booze and don't remember what happened. I was naked and I'd p*ssed the bed. I think I had sex as well but don't remember.

 

(Rape test later presumably confirms sex with 2 people and no signs of violence, no signs of roofies or whatever, the two people involved are identified)

 

Did you consent to have sex with the 2 guys? I don't know, I was very drunk and have zero recollection of the events whatsoever. I absolutely cannot say I did or did not consent to sex with either guy.

 

OK love I'm very sorry but the two guys involved state you consented to have sex with both of them, in the absence of any recollection from your side, and no signs of sexual violence or coercion I'm afraid there's very little we can do here.

 

 

...

Isn't that how it should have went? Surely.

 

Any sane being would argue this. But in todays PC climate the conclusion = " you cant remember consenting? Well thats rape then - you should report them etc".  You got drunk, went home with a guy and ended up having sex. Thats life.  Dont want to have drunken sex, simple 1. dont get that drunk and 2. Dont go home with a bloke.  If you go home with a guy he is going to attempt to shag you, you are free to say so and go home. If you are so drunk that are unable to object then obviously the guy SHOULD know better but in reality this rarely happens. Does it make him a bit of an arsehole if he is sober enough to see it? Yes, but locking him up for several years and labelling him as a sex offender is very very harsh. Im sure most of us would have experienced similar without never really having had that intention.

Pretty much this, if you consented to consume enough alcohol to put you in a situation where you can't remember then surely you are consenting to these sorts of possibilities.

 

Lets reverse the situation, what happens if a girl was more sober than a guy and the guy woke up with a big heffa next to him the next morning and runs like fuck. The guy is classed a dick for just running off yet no one blames the girl for taking advantage. How many bi-sexual or straight men get drunk and wake up with another guy next to them after getting so drunk?, who is to blame there, my guess is people will blame the straight guy for getting so drunk.

If you reverse the situation where a man is victim to the affects of alcohol no one says he was raped, if a girl does though then it's rape, double standards. Isn't it about time we started realising that women have just as much freedom to do what they want as men do and can be just as bad?

How the fuck is it possible to hold such dangerously right wing viewpoints?

My points was showing the difference in accountability between genders, and if we are to assume being intoxicated makes you in able to consent then it should be equal across both genders and surely someone has take responsibility for being so drunk?

 

If being intoxicated means you can no longer consent then surely a lot of people will be guilty of rape by having a drunken 1 night stand, or even by having a few drinks with their partner and then having sex? You can't say being intoxicated and then having sex is rape and only apply it to women on a night out, if your going to do that then it has to be applied to everyone.

"if you consented to consume enough alcohol to put you in a situation where you can't remember then surely you are consenting to these sorts of possibilities" 

 

You're views are incredibly rigid, like. I cannot even be bothered to explain the differences between the 2 scenarios though, they're obvious, but if a bloke believes he was 'raped' he has every right to report it and it'll be dealt in the same manner as if a female was to.

We have to be responsible for our actions even when drunk. If someone got drunk and drove and caused an accident then they are responsible, if someone dies then usually they go down for manslaughter because their intention wasn't to hurt someone but they took actions that resulted in it. In the eyes of the law they are still responsible, so if someone is responsible for killing someone when they are drunk then surely they are responsible for having sex?