Guest firetotheworks Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 It works both ways like, I've woken up to already having relations with a girlfriend before. It is a really, really difficult subject like, finding the right words to explain something without sounding like you're defending the actions of someone that left a girl on their own after sleeping with them, but also putting that to one side and looking at it from a more serious perspective in terms of rape and then what the definition of rape is (which, when you think or say that sounds like something along the lines of 'what's the definition of racism?' that racists come out with), so it's a tricky one to talk about, especially when it's with people who are unwilling to discuss it and have already made their minds up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ujpest doza Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 The other element of fresh evidence was expert evidence prepared by Professor John Birch, a consultant pharmacologist, a professor of biomedical science. His specialist field is psycho-pharmacology. Towards the end of his report he says: "From the evidence of [the complainant] she appears to have suffered anterior-grade amnesia as a result of the high dose of alcohol which she consumed, and in particular that she consumed a substantial dose of alcohol during the last hour or so prior to leaving the nightclub. It appears from the evidence that her short-term memory was functioning at the time around the incident, but that the long-term record of that memory has been ablated by the high concentration of alcohol. There is, therefore, no memory record of those events and attempts to jog the memory may lead to confabulation. The fact that she has no memory of events does not mean that she was not able to participate in a meaningful way in events at that time, and I am quite clear that this includes the ability to make informed decisions in relation to consent. Acute alcohol intoxication may lead to substantial disinhibition and that may in itself lead to unwise judgments being made. But the fact that she does no longer remember having made a decision is a failure of the memory process and not of the decision-making process. Evidence of memory loss as a result of anterior-grade amnesia does not in itself prove that she lacked the capacity to consent." Then there's this. A criticism of the summing-up involves an analysis of the directions given to the jury about the issue of consent in the context of the consumption of alcohol and/or drugs. The written submissions also criticised selected passages in the summing-up. There were two broad complaints. Firstly, that nowhere in the summing-up was it made clear to the jury that, even if the complainant was drunk, it did not necessarily mean that she had not consented; "a drunken consent is still a consent". I still don't understand how he would be found guilty and his mate didn't. His mate did more imo... That's fine but I mean, why text your mate "got a bird" with the intention of getting them to come over,its really predatory to me. I don't see any reasonable explanation for that. edit: imo there is gonna be a large percentage of spaz football fans who will make his return pretty grim. That "ched evans he shags who he wants" has already been sung, that does not bode well tbh I don't think he did text him I've got a bird to encourage him to come over. IIRC Evans texted him to ask where he was as Evans and others were on their way to bail someone else out of clink due to an assault and he'd replied to say he wasn't coming as he'd got a bird and was on his way back to the hotel. The girl actually imposed herself on him, jumping in his taxi and telling him she was going back with him. I just can't get my head round how his mate got off. How was she too drunk to give Evans consent but not his mate when she allegedly couldn't remember any of it and the police only knew they'd both had sex with her because they told them so. Surely it's both convicted or neither?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 The court report of McDonald himself doesn't say that she jumped in his taxi like. He said that she walked across his path, he asked where she was going, she responded by asking where he was going and then he said he was going to his hotel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 SUFC to confirm they will not offer him a contract tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ujpest doza Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 The court report of McDonald himself doesn't say that she jumped in his taxi like. He said that she walked across his path, he asked where she was going, she responded by asking where he was going and then he said he was going to his hotel. She invited herself though didn't she? not the other way round? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsted Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I've woken up to already having relations with a girlfriend before. This euphemism always sounds so Norfolk. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Can't get my head around him being convicted like, it's an incredible precedent to set imo. By the way why has no mention been made of the two cunts watching and videoing through the window? You'd have imagined they'd have been able to testify as to her state. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 He's contracted to Sheffield United, so they have to make a decision - and like we did with Nile Ranger, Joey Barton and Lee Bowyer (amongst others), the question isn't a moral one anymore. These days it's a financial decision, the result of a cost-benefit analysis. Is he? Never knew that. Because it isn't true. Pretty sure he's not like. My mistake - I thought he still was. In that case they don't have any sort of quandry at all, simply sign him or don't (as per previously detailed cost-benefit argument). As many have suggested, a lot of fans wouldn't want him associated with their club... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjb Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Would be ironic if a player takes out this cunt on whatever first game he plays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 It's starting to become more and more apparent that people have just taken the conviction as unquestionable proof of guilt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RJberger Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Very serious allegations and consequently conviction - BUT Its not like its an assault rape in a park. By no means making excuses, but once you you deal with intoxicated guys and girls in private arenas - things start getting really blurry. If she was a bit of a bike, having sex with one guy and another one joins in etc, maybe she passes out because of alcohol drugs etc... He should have known better, but being there, in bed , drunk and having sex with his friends etc - lines are not always so clear cut. Some of the blame has to be assigned to the girl, I dont buy the whole "the girl is never to blame" bollocks. They bloody are sometimes! Speaking in general terms, its not very nice to wake up to a rape allegation - I have friends who have - following a girl who regrets the sex a bit, doesnt fancy the bloke anymore or he doesnt fancy her after all etc. Funny how a bird can shag 100 blokes over half a year but one night when she figures out afterhand she wasnt really up for it she cries rape.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I'd imagine he's a shadow of his former self football wise, and probably mentally in a strange place with all this surrounding controversy. Should he be allowed? No, he was convicted of rape. Though he still denies it and i've heard his case is being looked in to again. If this is overturned then he should be allowed to go on to play football and she should be jailed for as long as he has been. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RJberger Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I'd imagine he's a shadow of his former self football wise, and probably mentally in a strange place with all this surrounding controversy. Should he be allowed? No, he was convicted of rape. Though he still denies it and i've heard his case is being looked in to again. If this is overturned then he should be allowed to go on to play football and she should be jailed for as long as he has been. Very hard to prove that she is lying about it, even when they have these girls on tape laughing and thanking people for the sex there is the "But in her mind it was rape etc" angle being rolled out... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Very serious allegations and consequently conviction - BUT Its not like its an assault rape in a park. By no means making excuses, but once you you deal with intoxicated guys and girls in private arenas - things start getting really blurry. If she was a bit of a bike, having sex with one guy and another one joins in etc, maybe she passes out because of alcohol drugs etc... He should have known better, but being there, in bed , drunk and having sex with his friends etc - lines are not always so clear cut. Some of the blame has to be assigned to the girl, I dont buy the whole "the girl is never to blame" bollocks. They bloody are sometimes! Speaking in general terms, its not very nice to wake up to a rape allegation - I have friends who have - following a girl who regrets the sex a bit, doesnt fancy the bloke anymore or he doesnt fancy her after all etc. Funny how a bird can shag 100 blokes over half a year but one night when she figures out afterhand she wasnt really up for it she cries rape.. A very nuanced argument citing some interesting legal precedents such as the 'bit of a bike' defence and the 'wasn't really up for it cries rape' gambit, also the timeless 'well you shagged a 100 guys in a 182 days so it's not rape'. You don't get this subtle grasp of the law very often on the internet. Also nearly forgot the 'well your honour it wasn't in a park. The defence rests.' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 We could also take into consideration his very low moral standards: he had a current girlfriend. This for me is also another nail in the rape conviction coffin... He was never up to any good from the instant he went to the hotel. I reckon he should be lynched, hung from a tree with somebody beating his bollocks with a stick... (only joking) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RJberger Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Fair enough. Im a bit of a chauvinist, so Im not really bothered. The price to pay for gender equality is taking responsibility for your actions, something young women today seldom tends to do. Shag around enough times, you are bound to get a negative experience sooner or later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The insinuation that cheating on his girlfriend is the smoke to the fire of him having raped someone is an interesting one. And of course by interesting I mean completely fucking stupid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 i mean i'm not misreading this right, he was convicted on absolutely fucking nothing? she was mortal and doesn't remember a single thing so the jury have decided that consent wasn't consent in this case and he therefore 'raped' her? even though she doesn't know what happened herself and might have been right into it at the time....how utterly fucked is that man he's clearly been/is an arsehole and they've both treated the lass like dirt but going to the big house for rape for that? terrifying man, absolutely terrifying, and now he's potentially going to be prevented from doing one thing that many of us would give a body part to do professionally at any level... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RJberger Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 thats when you know feminism has gone too far Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RJberger Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Fair enough. Im a bit of a chauvinist, so Im not really bothered. The price to pay for gender equality is taking responsibility for your actions, something young women today seldom tends to do. Shag around enough times, you are bound to get a negative experience sooner or later. f***ing hell man, that's really grim that. Think you might have been misinterpreting me. Rape is a very serious crime and should be treated as such. My problem lies with the semi-consentual intercource which the girl decides wasnt really consentual at all the day after and files for rape. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RJberger Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 i mean i'm not misreading this right, he was convicted on absolutely f***ing nothing? she was mortal and doesn't remember a single thing so the jury have decided that consent wasn't consent in this case and he therefore 'raped' her? even though she doesn't know what happened herself and might have been right into it at the time....how utterly f***ed is that man he's clearly been/is an arsehole and they've both treated the lass like dirt but going to the big house for rape for that? terrifying man, absolutely terrifying, and now he's potentially going to be prevented from doing one thing that many of us would give a body part to do professionally at any level... Spot on. Theres even talk of a law change where the girl has to give verbal consent before you can go any further, if she doesnt give it its rape :lol: "So just to be clear, you are fine with me having sex with you?" - oohh how arousing, should probably tape that as well in case she changes her mind the next morning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 i mean i'm not misreading this right, he was convicted on absolutely f***ing nothing? she was mortal and doesn't remember a single thing so the jury have decided that consent wasn't consent in this case and he therefore 'raped' her? even though she doesn't know what happened herself and might have been right into it at the time....how utterly f***ed is that man he's clearly been/is an arsehole and they've both treated the lass like dirt but going to the big house for rape for that? terrifying man, absolutely terrifying, and now he's potentially going to be prevented from doing one thing that many of us would give a body part to do professionally at any level... Spot on. Theres even talk of a law change where the girl has to give verbal consent before you can go any further, if she doesnt give it its rape :lol: "So just to be clear, you are fine with me having sex with you?" - oohh how arousing, should probably tape that as well in case she changes her mind the next morning. It's utter madness to deprive a man of his freedom and livelihood based on what is written in that thing KI posted, unless there's more to the case I'd say he's paid an unbelievably high price like. I mean the lass doesn't even know if she fucking consented at the time or not, how did it even get to trial nevermind a conviction? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The main point, regardless of whether she gave consent or not, is whether she was in a sound state of mind in order to do so. That to me is extremely dodgy and open to interpretation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 In every city in England this kind of thing happens dozens of times in various configurations every weekend. We're only discussing it cause he plays football for a living. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RJberger Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Fair enough. Im a bit of a chauvinist, so Im not really bothered. The price to pay for gender equality is taking responsibility for your actions, something young women today seldom tends to do. Shag around enough times, you are bound to get a negative experience sooner or later. Nah, that post is just really grim, and a really weird attitude to take. Essentially well if have sex a lot you're bound to have something bad happen. That's total nonsense. Also the "young women don't take responsibility for their actions". Based on what? The same way young men don't I imagine. Anyway It's a depressing viewpoint and you've identified yourself as a chauvinist so that's your opinion.I just don't happen to agree with it, and find it pretty grim. But I don't wanna debate it tbh. f***ing hell man, that's really grim that. Think you might have been misinterpreting me. Rape is a very serious crime and should be treated as such. My problem lies with the semi-consentual intercource which the girl decides wasnt really consentual at all the day after and files for rape. Nah, that post is just really grim, and a really weird attitude to take. Essentially well if have sex a lot you're bound to have something bad happen. That's total nonsense. Also the "young women don't take responsibility for their actions". Based on what? The same way young men don't I imagine. Anyway It's a depressing viewpoint and you've identified yourself as a chauvinist so that's your opinion.I just don't happen to agree with it, and find it pretty grim. But I don't wanna debate it tbh. Its a grim world out there, and alot of men do take advantage if the opportunity presents itself. Shag around like a tramp and sooner or later you will get a negative experience. Does that excuse the man in any way? No, but if you get obscenely drunk and end up in hotel rooms time and time again to a certain extent you have yourself to thank as well, sorry thats just how I see it. You gotta face the reality of how the world works, even though in a perfect world a drunk woman should be left alone naked in a bed every single time. Agree to disagree Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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