Fantail Breeze Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 4 hours ago, PeepShow4life said: People are saying Southgate must be good because of how far we got in the last two tournaments. In both we had favourable fixtures, in the world cup we got easily beaten twice by Belgium, barely scrapped past Colombia and lost to an inferior Croatian team. Most of our goals came from set pieces and the football wasn't very good. In the Euros, the Germany game aside which was very impressive, we had favourable fixtures again and couldn't beat a weak Italy side in the final. I think I remember Bruce having a good cup run one year but we had the easiest draws ever and then once we came up against a good team, lost immediately. Does that make him a good manager then? Southgate seems like a great guy but I don't rate him as a manager at all. Minging football winning fuck all with one of the most talented attacking sides we’ve ever had in most of our lifetimes. A decent manager and we’d have won the Euros. His tactical limitations fail us in the big games, this English side is good enough to beat a majority of the crap we’ve come up against by default. Bizarre how much support he gets. Longer we keep him the less chance we’ll have of taking advantage of having such a decent squad. This team should walk into a QF/SF and easily will. That’ll be enough to keep him in a job and we’ll be stuck in this cycle forever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 Seriously are all of you people claiming we have the best players we've seen in our lifetime on smack? I'm sure you believe it for whatever reason, but unless you're like 12 years old the idea that this set of players are the best in our lifetimes is a proper joke like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 3 hours ago, Ste said: Both the Croatia and Italy games, we suffered from not taking our chances. I thought both games we started well and had a good first 45, then seemed to shrink in stature. To be expected with all the pressure, particularly that Italy game where you could feel the nervous energy from the stands. The entire Euros up to that point, aside from a spell in the Germany game where Pickford appeared to lose his nerve, we controlled most games and conceded 2 goals, 1 from open play. We played the tournament perfectly for me. It's far easier to get your team solid defensively and maintain a shape in the little time you have than to get them to play open and expansive attacking football. Individual moments let us down more than anything Southgate does. The comparison to Bruce is ridiculous. Sacking Southgate couldn't be further from my mind currently, him and his team had me enjoying football while Bruce was capping off an utterly dreadful 14 years of Mike Ashley. Love some fake facts to justify Southgate. Sort of stuff we used to ridicule people for about Bruce. We were battered by Italy. Was it 20-odd shots to about 3 over 120 minutes at a Wembley final? Only shot on target was a goal in the first five minutes. Just refreshed my memory of the Croatia game and that was exactly the same. 2 shots on target in 120 minutes, Croatia with twice the amount of shots. Less possession. If anything we were fortunate we didn’t lose more heavily, rather than in ET and pens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: Seriously are all of you people claiming we have the best players we've seen in our lifetime on smack? I'm sure you believe it for whatever reason, but unless you're like 12 years old the idea that this set of players are the best in our lifetimes is a proper joke like. In comparison to the opposition it certainly is and my point was regarding the attacking talent. We don’t have to fight with impossible teams like Brazil and Spain who were exceptional at times when we’ve had other impressive sides. Our squad is one of the best in the world. We’re lucky Belgium are thick and are persisting with Martinez. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 He was horrific against Italy, no doubt and hopeflly he's learned from it, but it's canny mad suggesting Croatia should have beat us by more like, we were pretty unlucky. Pretty sure Kane missed an absolute sitter an all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilikenewcastle Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said: Love some fake facts to justify Southgate. Sort of stuff we used to ridicule people for about Bruce. We were battered by Italy. Was it 20-odd shots to about 3 over 120 minutes at a Wembley final? Only shot on target was a goal in the first five minutes. Just refreshed my memory of the Croatia game and that was exactly the same. 2 shots on target in 120 minutes, Croatia with twice the amount of shots. Less possession. If anything we were fortunate we didn’t lose more heavily, rather than in ET and pens. I'm no Southgate apologist, but anyone who watched the Croatia and Italy games without just looking at stats cannot say we were battered (possibly towards the end of extra time v Croatia). I struggle to remember Italy having chances against us (yes I know we didn't create much either). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 Just now, Hanshithispantz said: He was horrific against Italy, no doubt and hopeflly he's learned from it, but it's canny mad suggesting Croatia should have beat us by more like, we were pretty unlucky. Pretty sure Kane missed an absolute sitter an all. Was that the famous social media effort where he was actually offside? Read a match report from the game, we started brightly, scored a goal and then completely faded. It was pretty much one way traffic from then on in. It was a very similar performance to the Italy one. He didn’t learn much from that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said: In comparison to the opposition it certainly is and my point was regarding the attacking talent. We don’t have to fight with impossible teams like Brazil and Spain who were exceptional at times when we’ve had other impressive sides. Our squad is one of the best in the world. We’re lucky Belgium are thick and are persisting with Martinez. We have a cracking set of right backs, and a truly world class striker. Foden's getting there and Sterling's hit form under Southgate. Beyond that, making a case for the likes of Pickford, Stones, Maguire, Rice, Phillips as being equal or better than their equivalents across the other teams out there is a huge stretch. Edited June 5, 2022 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillingtonMag Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 13 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: Seriously are all of you people claiming we have the best players we've seen in our lifetime on smack? I'm sure you believe it for whatever reason, but unless you're like 12 years old the idea that this set of players are the best in our lifetimes is a proper joke like. Think we had the best team at the Euros like can't remember being able to say that before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, ilikenewcastle said: I'm no Southgate apologist, but anyone who watched the Croatia and Italy games without just looking at stats cannot say we were battered (possibly towards the end of extra time v Croatia). I struggle to remember Italy having chances against us (yes I know we didn't create much either). “Italian side on the back foot until they suddenly gained a foothold in the closing phase of the first half. Italy dominated possession, and it was no surprise when they restored parity, then looking the more likely winners as Southgate's side, so full of running early on, started to labour“ Our own media are willing to accept Italy were miles the better team, why can’t you? We were battered in the sense that we didn’t have the football, didn’t create chances and provided fuck all. As I said earlier, almost identical to the Croatia game which he clearly took a lot of learning from. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 1 minute ago, WillingtonMag said: Think we had the best team at the Euros like can't remember being able to say that before. You honestly can't be serious man. That's absolutely ridiculous Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillingtonMag Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 Just now, Kid Icarus said: You honestly can't be serious man. That's absolutely ridiculous Who had better? France would be the only argument I think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 Southgate is the ultimate example of victim of his own success like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: We have a cracking set of right backs, and a truly world class striker. Foden's getting there and Sterling's hit form under Southgate. Beyond that, making a case for the likes of Pickford, Stones, Maguire, Rice, Phillips as being equal or better than their equivalents across the other teams out there is a huge stretch. Their equivalents across other teams isn’t particularly fair though - have we ever had a team of players as good as this? Comparing Pickford to David Seaman and Maguire to Terry Butcher isn’t the point. Individually we may have had better players, but this is the best team with the best options. The England team pretty much used to pick itself. There are so many options now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, ponsaelius said: Southgate is the ultimate example of victim of his own success like. Southgate has been as successful as Tottenham, who are constantly widely ridiculed for not being successful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said: Was that the famous social media effort where he was actually offside? Read a match report from the game, we started brightly, scored a goal and then completely faded. It was pretty much one way traffic from then on in. It was a very similar performance to the Italy one. He didn’t learn much from that. Extended highlights here. Not sure how that could be described as 'one way traffic' like. It was a decent game. Croatia are hardly minnows either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilikenewcastle Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said: “Italian side on the back foot until they suddenly gained a foothold in the closing phase of the first half. Italy dominated possession, and it was no surprise when they restored parity, then looking the more likely winners as Southgate's side, so full of running early on, started to labour“ Our own media are willing to accept Italy were miles the better team, why can’t you? We were battered in the sense that we didn’t have the football, didn’t create chances and provided fuck all. As I said earlier, almost identical to the Croatia game which he clearly took a lot of learning from. We were disappointing, and I am as frustrated with the manner of our defeats to Croatia and Italy as anyone else. However, I simply believe you're exaggerating how bad we were in both games. Italy were never going to score a second if we played another week, their goal was scrappy as anything. I think the whole team/coaches shat themselves when we were on the brink of glory - Southgate has to avoid that this time or he should go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilikenewcastle Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Hanshithispantz said: Extended highlights here. Not sure how that could be described as 'one way traffic' like. It was a decent game. Croatia are hardly minnows either. Croatia were at least as good as us on paper in 2018 and certainly far more experienced. Our squad was never capable of winning that WC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said: Their equivalents across other teams isn’t particularly fair though - have we ever had a team of players as good as this? Comparing Pickford to David Seaman and Maguire to Terry Butcher isn’t the point. Individually we may have had better players, but this is the best team with the best options. The England team pretty much used to pick itself. There are so many options now. I wonder why that might be? Could it be down to the person responsible with turning a set of individuals into a team? As for the rest, definitely not. Whether the England team picked itself or not there are countless players who couldn't get in previous teams or squads who would walk into this team, particularly in goal, central defence, and central midfield. So many strikers that would be just behind Kane in the pecking order or playing alongside him as well. Edited June 5, 2022 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillingtonMag Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 1 minute ago, ilikenewcastle said: We were disappointing, and I am as frustrated with the manner of our defeats to Croatia and Italy as anyone else. However, I simply believe you're exaggerating how bad we were in both games. Italy were never going to score a second if we played another week, their goal was scrappy as anything. I think the whole team/coaches shat themselves when we were on the brink of glory - Southgate has to avoid that this time or he should go. They did which isn't good enough, i think that's a mentality that can't be changed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 11 minutes ago, WillingtonMag said: Who had better? France would be the only argument I think? France, Belgium, Italy, Germany, Croatia, Portugal, probably Spain despite having no striker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 I'm really not sure who England are supposed to appoint instead. It's not like there is a long line of top class English managers who have won loads at club level waiting to be appointed as is the case for the likes of Italy, Germany, Spain or France. In lieu of the above you are best having somebody already on the inside, who already knows the whole FA set up from top to bottom, understands the country's culture intuitively and is good at handling the press. England have in the past, with very strong squads, appointed top class club managers who have performed infinitely worse than Southgate has. All their experience and tactical nouse counted for very little in the England job. Managing a national team is such a different job. My only criticism of Southgate is that he's a bit negative. But negative teams win tournaments - even the best sides revert to it late in tournaments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillingtonMag Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 Just now, Kid Icarus said: France, Belgium, Italy, Germany, Croatia, Portugal, probably Spain despite having no striker. And you were laughing at me ?. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said: Extended highlights here. Not sure how that could be described as 'one way traffic' like. It was a decent game. Croatia are hardly minnows either. Croatia created three or four really good chances (scoring from one) and we had shots from 30 yards out. 2 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: I wonder why that might be? Could it be down to the person responsible with turning a set of individuals into a team? As for the rest, definitely not. Whether the England team picked itself or not there are countless players who couldn't get in previous teams or squads who would walk into this team, particularly in goal, central defence, and central midfield. So many strikers that would be just behind Kane in the pecking order or playing alongside him as well. He hasn’t though, that’s the whole point. We’re playing dullard football and not using those individuals in the right way. I’m saying this is our best collection of individuals making a team, but the performance and success they have had hasn’t been as good as it could be - because of the very obvious limitations on the sideline. So you agree the previous England teams pretty much picked themselves but there is one of two players from several generations that’d get into this one. Makes no sense as a counter point. In 2010 we took Peter Crouch and Emile fucking Heskey to a World Cup We’re now taking players like Rashford, Sancho, Saka to sit on the bench. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilikenewcastle Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said: France, Belgium, Italy, Germany, Croatia, Portugal, probably Spain despite having no striker. Cannot agree with this at all. Our squad was superior to most of those and I think most people from Portugal, Germany, Croatia, Spain and probably even Italy would agree, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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