"You're Just a Town Full of Pakis!"

[ChezGiven]

 

Oh, and that "paki is short for Pakistani like Aussie is short for Australian" is laughable, btw.

 

So if an English speaking Spanish bar owner says 'All these f***ing Brits bringing the tone down in our lovely coastal town' its not racist?

 

The use of the term "Brits" is not racist, no. The suggestion that one national group is having a detrimental effect on an area is somewhat xenophobic.

 

And as for the chant "you're just a town full of pakis" - do you think that is not meant to be racist?

 

I've already answered the second point earlier in the thread. Yes, the use of the word 'just' makes it racist.

 

Your first point seems, to me, to contradict what you are saying though.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I'm not sure why people are even attempting to say that the word 'paki' is OK in Britain today, what's your motivation? All I can see is people attempting to make excuses for people acting in an obviously-racist way.

 

If there's another reason then I'm happy to apologise.

[Nobby]

I'm not sure why people are even attempting to say that the word 'paki' is OK in Britain today, what's your motivation?

what is your motivation for saying its not?

[tmonkey]

 

Oh, and that "paki is short for Pakistani like Aussie is short for Australian" is laughable, btw.

 

So if an English speaking Spanish bar owner says 'All these f***ing Brits bringing the tone down in our lovely coastal town' its not racist?

 

The use of the term "Brits" is not racist, no. The suggestion that one national group is having a detrimental effect on an area is somewhat xenophobic.

 

And as for the chant "you're just a town full of pakis" - do you think that is not meant to be racist?

 

I've already answered the second point earlier in the thread. Yes, the use of the word 'just' makes it racist.

 

Your first point seems, to me, to contradict what you are saying though.

 

So "youre a town full of pakis" isnt racist to you?

 

Absolute rubbish.

[Guest alex]

I'm not sure why people are even attempting to say that the word 'paki' is OK in Britain today, what's your motivation?

what is your motivation for saying its not?

To reiterate what I said earlier I would say it's because it's intended as a racial slur when used in this country and has been for many years. Due to this the person on the receiving end of it views it as an insult. It's a cultural thing is this country and in that respect differs from other words that may seem similar on a superficial level.

[BlueStar]

If you've got a problem the fact paki is considered a racist term for anyone of asian appearance in the UK then you should take it up with people who use it as a racist term for anyone of asian appearance in the UK.

 

[ujpest doza]

I'm not sure why people are even attempting to say that the word 'paki' is OK in Britain today, what's your motivation? All I can see is people attempting to make excuses for people acting in an obviously-racist way.

 

If there's another reason then I'm happy to apologise.

 

The chant (that i don't personally indulge in ) is just an attempt to wind up the oppo.

 

As long people get wound up about other people will continue to do it. Ignore it and don't show that it is causing offence and it defeats the object of them doing it in the first place.

 

The (Indian) owner of my local newsagent quite happily uses the term "fucking Paki Bastards" to describe the owner of the off licence around the corner and quite openly hates them. Couldn't really give a shit myself, as long they are hard working, law abiding and aren't blowing up tube trains, buses and airplanes i don't care whether someone is black, white, brown, pink or yellow.

 

 

[ChezGiven]

 

Oh, and that "paki is short for Pakistani like Aussie is short for Australian" is laughable, btw.

 

So if an English speaking Spanish bar owner says 'All these f***ing Brits bringing the tone down in our lovely coastal town' its not racist?

 

The use of the term "Brits" is not racist, no. The suggestion that one national group is having a detrimental effect on an area is somewhat xenophobic.

 

And as for the chant "you're just a town full of pakis" - do you think that is not meant to be racist?

 

I've already answered the second point earlier in the thread. Yes, the use of the word 'just' makes it racist.

 

Your first point seems, to me, to contradict what you are saying though.

 

So "youre a town full of pakis" isnt racist to you?

 

Absolute rubbish.

 

I'd never use the phrase myself. Also, any chant at a football match aimed at the opposing fans is meant to be offensive, so its more than the word 'just'. That is the word that clearly makes the statement judgemental though.

 

"The town centre was full of Brits drinking heavily" is racist too then according to your simplistic moral framework.

[BlueStar]

As long people get wound up about other people will continue to do it. Ignore it and don't show that it is causing offence and it defeats the object of them doing it in the first place.

 

True.  But then they'd find a different word.  The word cunt has quite innoffensive roots in a word that was probably about as offensive as fanny decades ago, but you wouldn't call your mum one because of how it's used in britain today.  Nigger is probably based on negro and you could claim it's factually accurate.  If it wasn't used in the way it was in America in the last 100 years, maybe it would be as acceptable as the word black.  There's no logical reason why the letters cunt are offensive and can't isn't, but call a copper a cunt when you pile out the clubs in newcastle and you'll have a hard time arguing that it was just short for scunthorpe.

[ujpest doza]

 

Oh, and that "paki is short for Pakistani like Aussie is short for Australian" is laughable, btw.

 

So if an English speaking Spanish bar owner says 'All these f***ing Brits bringing the tone down in our lovely coastal town' its not racist?

 

The use of the term "Brits" is not racist, no. The suggestion that one national group is having a detrimental effect on an area is somewhat xenophobic.

 

And as for the chant "you're just a town full of pakis" - do you think that is not meant to be racist?

 

I've already answered the second point earlier in the thread. Yes, the use of the word 'just' makes it racist.

 

Your first point seems, to me, to contradict what you are saying though.

 

So "youre a town full of pakis" isnt racist to you?

 

Absolute rubbish.

 

I'd never use the phrase myself. Also, any chant at a football match aimed at the opposing fans is meant to be offensive, so its more than the word 'just'. That is the word that clearly makes the statement judgemental though.

 

"The town centre was full of Brits drinking heavily" is racist too then according to your simplistic moral framework.

 

I suggest that at our games from now on we start chants such as "You're just a town full of wonderful people" or "You're great and you know you are" in order to conform to todays political correctness and to try not to wind up or offend the opposition fans.

[ChezGiven]

 

Oh, and that "paki is short for Pakistani like Aussie is short for Australian" is laughable, btw.

 

So if an English speaking Spanish bar owner says 'All these f***ing Brits bringing the tone down in our lovely coastal town' its not racist?

 

The use of the term "Brits" is not racist, no. The suggestion that one national group is having a detrimental effect on an area is somewhat xenophobic.

 

And as for the chant "you're just a town full of pakis" - do you think that is not meant to be racist?

 

I've already answered the second point earlier in the thread. Yes, the use of the word 'just' makes it racist.

 

Your first point seems, to me, to contradict what you are saying though.

 

So "youre a town full of pakis" isnt racist to you?

 

Absolute rubbish.

 

I'd never use the phrase myself. Also, any chant at a football match aimed at the opposing fans is meant to be offensive, so its more than the word 'just'. That is the word that clearly makes the statement judgemental though.

 

"The town centre was full of Brits drinking heavily" is racist too then according to your simplistic moral framework.

 

I suggest that at our games from now on we start chants such as "You're just a town full of wonderful people" or "You're great and you know you are" in order to conform to todays political correctness and to try not to wind up or offend the opposition fans.

 

[Guest Smudger]

I'm not sure why people are even attempting to say that the word 'paki' is OK in Britain today, what's your motivation? All I can see is people attempting to make excuses for people acting in an obviously-racist way.

 

If there's another reason then I'm happy to apologise.

 

The chant (that i don't personally indulge in ) is just an attempt to wind up the oppo.

 

As long people get wound up about other people will continue to do it. Ignore it and don't show that it is causing offence and it defeats the object of them doing it in the first place.

 

The (Indian) owner of my local newsagent quite happily uses the term "f***ing Paki Bastards" to describe the owner of the off licence around the corner and quite openly hates them. Couldn't really give a shit myself, as long they are hard working, law abiding and aren't blowing up tube trains, buses and airplanes i don't care whether someone is black, white, brown, pink or yellow.

 

 

 

Nail on head.

 

At the end of the day its a chant sang at a football match by a very small number of people. Get over it and move on.

 

 

[tmonkey]

So "youre a town full of pakis" isnt racist to you?

 

Absolute rubbish.

 

I'd never use the phrase myself. Also, any chant at a football match aimed at the opposing fans is meant to be offensive, so its more than the word 'just'. That is the word that clearly makes the statement judgemental though.

 

"The town centre was full of Brits drinking heavily" is racist too then according to your simplistic moral framework.

 

What framework? Brits, as brummie has pointed out, isnt considered a derogatory or offensive racist word.

 

Paki is, as is nigger or chink. Therefore, calling someone a paki, nigger or chink is racist and offensive to all people of a particular skin tone.

 

"Brits" would have to be understood to be an offensive word for British people in order for the sentance "Youre just a town full of Brits" to be derogatory. Its not.

 

If the sentance was "youre a town full of honkies" sung by a bunch of asians or black hooligans, or something similar, then thats racist.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I don't really have time to quote every sentence I want to respond to, and I sense we're going around in circles a bit here.

 

I hope that the chant is just an attempt to wind up the opposition, although I've heard nothing here to suggest that it's in any way acceptable. Whether it's been going on for years or since last tuesday, it needs to stop now. I don't think those of us who are objecting need to 'get over it and move on' at all, in fact I think it's important that when these incidents happen we continue to discuss them and investigate the motivation behind them.

 

This has been quite a depressing thread for me (as are a lot of the discussions I have with older members of my family about racism), as it always seems there are a number of people who just can't listen to reason about these subjects and continue to defend the indefensible. It's important that white British people retain their cultural identity (everyone needs to belong to something), but we needn't do it by abusing other races.

[ujpest doza]

So "youre a town full of pakis" isnt racist to you?

 

Absolute rubbish.

 

I'd never use the phrase myself. Also, any chant at a football match aimed at the opposing fans is meant to be offensive, so its more than the word 'just'. That is the word that clearly makes the statement judgemental though.

 

"The town centre was full of Brits drinking heavily" is racist too then according to your simplistic moral framework.

 

What framework? Brits, as brummie has pointed out, isnt considered a derogatory or offensive racist word.

Paki is, as is nigger or chink. Therefore, calling someone a paki, nigger or chink is racist and offensive to all people of a particular skin tone.

 

"Brits" would have to be understood to be an offensive word for British people in order for the sentance "Youre just a town full of Brits" to be derogatory. Its not.

 

If the sentance was "youre a town full of honkies" sung by a bunch of asians or black hooligans, or something similar, then thats racist.

 

Call us Brits lumps us in with the Welsh, the Scots and the Irish, i'm not having that i'm English not British.

 

 

 

[Guest fred]

The term paki is racist full stop.

 

Stop trying to hide behind the fact that we shorten lots of other nationalities, it's bollocks.

 

The word is racist because of the way that it is used and it's intention to mark somebody out as different. It's shite, if you genuinely didn't realise that this was wrong then fair enough, but put a stop to it now because without any doubt it is wrong, you've been told now so give ower.

 

The germans had a similar thing in the summer where they were trying to discourage songs that aimed to antagonise oposition fans, I'm all for a bit of banter and don't mind being on the end of some. But to suggest that winding fans up is part of the experience is bollocks, it's all about context and the particular language used.

 

To sing about blackburn being a total shit hole doesn't discriminate against anyone who lives there, to suggest all scousers are theives is also a blanket piss take, welsh = sheep shaggers, people dont get beaten up, denied jobs, insulted on a daily basis for this.

 

I like having a chance to take the piss but why does it have to be aggressive and antagonistic?

 

Call me a PC wanker if you like, but I'm embarrassed by some of the dismissive attitudes I've read in this thread.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The term paki is racist full stop.

 

Stop trying to hide behind the fact that we shorten lots of other nationalities, it's bollocks.

 

The word is racist because of the way that it is used and it's intention to mark somebody out as different. It's shite, if you genuinely didn't realise that this was wrong then fair enough, but put a stop to it now because without any doubt it is wrong, you've been told now so give ower.

 

The germans had a similar thing in the summer where they were trying to discourage songs that aimed to antagonise oposition fans, I'm all for a bit of banter and don't mind being on the end of some. But to suggest that winding fans up is part of the experience is bollocks, it's all about context and the particular language used.

 

To sing about blackburn being a total shit hole doesn't discriminate against anyone who lives there, to suggest all scousers are theives is also a blanket piss take, welsh = sheep shaggers, people dont get beaten up, denied jobs, insulted on a daily basis for this.

 

I like having a chance to take the piss but why does it have to be aggressive and antagonistic?

 

Call me a PC wanker if you like, but I'm embarrassed by some of the dismissive attitudes I've read in this thread.

 

[Taylor Swift]

I don't really have time to quote every sentence I want to respond to, and I sense we're going around in circles a bit here.

 

I hope that the chant is just an attempt to wind up the opposition, although I've heard nothing here to suggest that it's in any way acceptable. Whether it's been going on for years or since last tuesday, it needs to stop now. I don't think those of us who are objecting need to 'get over it and move on' at all, in fact I think it's important that when these incidents happen we continue to discuss them and investigate the motivation behind them.

 

This has been quite a depressing thread for me (as are a lot of the discussions I have with older members of my family about racism), as it always seems there are a number of people who just can't listen to reason about these subjects and continue to defend the indefensible. It's important that white British people retain their cultural identity (everyone needs to belong to something), but we needn't do it by abusing other races.

 

I totally agree with your whole post but regarding the bit in bold, does anyone actually realize that 88% of Britain is still a 'white' Britain? There's only a 12% minority!! Problems with minorities are not as big as many newspapers make it out to be. Some people really need to examine facts before spouting off shit.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It's important that white British people retain their cultural identity (everyone needs to belong to something), but we needn't do it by abusing other races.

 

I totally agree with your whole post but regarding the bit in bold, does anyone actually realize that 88% of Britain is still a 'white' Britain? There's only a 12% minority!! Problems with minorities are not as big as many newspapers make it out to be. Some people really need to examine facts before spouting off shit.

 

 

I do, yes, but not sure about 'most people'. That's the problem with a lot of people getting most of their information from sensationalist media. The fear of crime is also a lot worse than actual crime figures (even though everything isn't perfect obviously).

 

I wasn't saying I agreed that British culture was threatened, just trying to address some peoples' apparent concerns. (I know you weren't suggesting I was!)

[BlueStar]

I totally agree with your whole post but regarding the bit in bold, does anyone actually realize that 88% of Britain is still a 'white' Britain? There's only a 12% minority!! Problems with minorities are not as big as many newspapers make it out to be. Some people really need to examine facts before spouting off shit.

 

I quite enjoy the tabloid sensationalism.  The English Democratic Party are my favorite new "inverse political correctness" nutters at the moment.  Some organisation made Christmas cards out of a painting called the Wilton Diptych, which shows the virgin mary, baby jesus and a load of angels (all caucasian at that).  The printers cropped the image so that the angels, jesus and mary filled the front of the card.  Fatal error, because at the very top left of the picture there's a small flag which could be either the flag of the ressurection or the St George Cross.  The EDP went mental and started talking about anti-english angendas and pandering to minorities by self-hating brits (Of course you'd think if they were involved in an anti-white-christian-english conspiracy, this organisation would have chosen something slightly more secular than Jesus and the Virgin Mary for their christmas cards.)

 

I'd put those guys in the same bracket as the muslim bloke who claimed McDonalds deliberately made the creamy swirl on their McFlurry lid look like arabic for Allah to offend muslims.  But they manage to avoid being branded politically correct.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

XVentura and BlueStar, you're both right in suggesting that the 'plight' of white Britains is often overstated and a lot of racists and nutters campaign under the banner of being pro-English.

 

All I was hinting at was that it's OK for white people to be proud of their own culture (even though we've done a lot of pretty inexcusable things in history). I hope I didn't come across as trying to align myself the likes of EDP and the BNP - who on the surface can sometimes appear to be quite respectable but are actually totally vile.

[Guest]

 

Oh, and that "paki is short for Pakistani like Aussie is short for Australian" is laughable, btw.

 

So if an English speaking Spanish bar owner says 'All these f***ing Brits bringing the tone down in our lovely coastal town' its not racist?

 

The use of the term "Brits" is not racist, no. The suggestion that one national group is having a detrimental effect on an area is somewhat xenophobic.

 

And as for the chant "you're just a town full of pakis" - do you think that is not meant to be racist?

 

I've already answered the second point earlier in the thread. Yes, the use of the word 'just' makes it racist.

 

Your first point seems, to me, to contradict what you are saying though.

 

So "youre a town full of pakis" isnt racist to you?

 

Absolute rubbish.

 

I'd never use the phrase myself. Also, any chant at a football match aimed at the opposing fans is meant to be offensive, so its more than the word 'just'. That is the word that clearly makes the statement judgemental though.

 

"The town centre was full of Brits drinking heavily" is racist too then according to your simplistic moral framework.

 

I suggest that at our games from now on we start chants such as "You're just a town full of wonderful people" or "You're great and you know you are" in order to conform to todays political correctness and to try not to wind up or offend the opposition fans.

 

 

Just a novel idea...why not sing about our OWN team.

[ujpest doza]

I don't really have time to quote every sentence I want to respond to, and I sense we're going around in circles a bit here.

 

I hope that the chant is just an attempt to wind up the opposition, although I've heard nothing here to suggest that it's in any way acceptable. Whether it's been going on for years or since last tuesday, it needs to stop now. I don't think those of us who are objecting need to 'get over it and move on' at all, in fact I think it's important that when these incidents happen we continue to discuss them and investigate the motivation behind them.

 

This has been quite a depressing thread for me (as are a lot of the discussions I have with older members of my family about racism), as it always seems there are a number of people who just can't listen to reason about these subjects and continue to defend the indefensible. It's important that white British people retain their cultural identity (everyone needs to belong to something), but we needn't do it by abusing other races.

 

I totally agree with your whole post but regarding the bit in bold, does anyone actually realize that 88% of Britain is still a 'white' Britain? There's only a 12% minority!! Problems with minorities are not as big as many newspapers make it out to be. Some people really need to examine facts before spouting off shit.

 

Those stats are for Britain as a whole which inludes areas that are 100% white and other areas that are a lot less than 100% white.

 

Blackburn incidently is 78% white and 19% Asian.

Bradford is 78% white and 18% Asian

Liverpool is 94% white and 1% Chinese

Hounslow in West London is 65% white and 22% Asian and 3% Black African.

 

You can prove anything with statistics

 

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/profiles/18.asp

 

[UV]

I'm not sure why people are even attempting to say that the word 'paki' is OK in Britain today, what's your motivation? All I can see is people attempting to make excuses for people acting in an obviously-racist way.

 

If there's another reason then I'm happy to apologise.

 

The chant (that i don't personally indulge in ) is just an attempt to wind up the oppo.

 

As long people get wound up about other people will continue to do it. Ignore it and don't show that it is causing offence and it defeats the object of them doing it in the first place.

 

The (Indian) owner of my local newsagent quite happily uses the term "f***ing Paki Bastards" to describe the owner of the off licence around the corner and quite openly hates them. Couldn't really give a shit myself, as long they are hard working, law abiding and aren't blowing up tube trains, buses and airplanes i don't care whether someone is black, white, brown, pink or yellow.

 

 

 

Nail on head.

 

At the end of the day its a chant sang at a football match by a very small number of people. Get over it and move on.

 

 

Missed the nail and hit your thumb more like.

 

Who exactly is supposed to be being wound up by this chant of "You're just a town full of Pakis"?

 

I'd be surprised if more than 1 or 2% of the Blackburn crowd were actually Pakistani, Indian,  Bangladeshi, etc. Any non-asian racists in the crowd would be sat there nodding and tutting in agreement. The people you're "winding up" are predominantly white non-racists, people who aren't bothered that you think their town is "full of Pakis" or think that that would be anything to be ashamed of, but go away with the perception that the North East is full of ignorant racist bigots.

 

For fucks sake, they can only get 16000 for a 3PM Saturday kick off and live in a shithole. There's plenty of scope for abuse without resorting to racism.

 

By the way, the argument about whether or not "Paki" is a racist term is irrelevant in this context and just a red herring. "You're just a town full of people of South Asian or Indian Subcontinent origin" would be just as racist in this situation when meant as a slur on the area.

[ChezGiven]

So "youre a town full of pakis" isnt racist to you?

 

Absolute rubbish.

 

I'd never use the phrase myself. Also, any chant at a football match aimed at the opposing fans is meant to be offensive, so its more than the word 'just'. That is the word that clearly makes the statement judgemental though.

 

"The town centre was full of Brits drinking heavily" is racist too then according to your simplistic moral framework.

 

What framework? Brits, as brummie has pointed out, isnt considered a derogatory or offensive racist word.

 

Paki is, as is nigger or chink. Therefore, calling someone a paki, nigger or chink is racist and offensive to all people of a particular skin tone.

 

"Brits" would have to be understood to be an offensive word for British people in order for the sentance "Youre just a town full of Brits" to be derogatory. Its not.

 

If the sentance was "youre a town full of honkies" sung by a bunch of asians or black hooligans, or something similar, then thats racist.

 

If I'm offended by 'Youre just a town full of Brits' your argument falls down. How do you know that i am or not? How do you make all these sweeping judgements about what is acceptable? How do you know if people are offended? In which case how do you make the moral judgement on new forms of racism? Run round and administer 'levels of offensive' questionnaires to everyone in the country?

 

Where was this consensus taken that people dont find it offensive? Can you send me a quote or a link that backs up your statement 'Its not'? Who said that? Brummie? ffs....

 

You cant win a moral debate by saying 'cos thats what people fink'.

 

You can use a racist word without knowing it. Is the act morally wrong? In your world yes, in my world no. You can also be politically correct in public but harbour deep rooted thoughts that are never expressed. In this case the contrary is true. Words arent the problem.

 

If Nigger is friendly in one situation and not in another then the word itself doesnt define being racist. I think we need to grow up over this debate as we miss the point if we just focus on the words, hence me forcing the 'Brit' thing. People who dont see that havent thought what it means to be racist, just that dogmatically they are right that it is wrong to use certain words. Thats not a debate tbh.

 

This is well beyond the original point, that it has no place in our club or in football.