Allan Saint-Maximin (now playing for Fenerbahce, on loan from Al-Ahli)

[Guest reefatoon]

2 hours ago, arnonel said:

Maxi must stay. He is an absolute handful for the opposition. Completely different player. 

or an injury prone bench warmer….

[Toonjam88]

13 minutes ago, Pata said:

Fixed ”he’s” to ”his”, whatever man. ?????

I realised that’s all you did after but then it was a pain to delete my post ??????

[Hanshithispantz]

1 hour ago, Toonjam88 said:

If we are using that then look at Tonalis and he is shit. 

Tonali's FBref profile is terrible because he's statistically average across a lot of things and there's no context to any of it, it's just raw data. Longstaff's is shite too and he was superb last year.

 

Maxi excels in getting up the pitch and creating chances though, we see that and it's reflected by his statistics on FBref.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Hanshithispantz

[Aiston]

On one hand, wouldn't mind if we sold him and replaced him someone who has end product.

 

The other, don't mind if we keep him and he gets one more chance. Not like his stock will be high for selling him anyway after his figures last year and mission so much of the season due to injuries.

[Dan Gleebals]

If he can start the seaon like he did last season, and keep it going, he is one I would keep.  This season will probably define his career in many ways - lets see.

[JP]

Wouldn't have a picture in Above bar last season after 1-1 draw with West Ham - sell

 

[Hanshithispantz]

1 hour ago, Interpolic said:

 

Seeing a lot of these charts recently, do you know if the percentile is versus other NUFC players? Other PL players? Same position? 

 

 

 

Top 5 leagues I think? Although someone might correct me.

 

It's FBref, pretty cool to look at but @Toonjam88 is right it can still be massively misleading.

[matta]

5 hours ago, Toonjam88 said:

That was one game through the whole season. Yes he has got better creating chances but for me he just isn’t available enough. If selling Maxi meant we could get another 2 possibly 3 quality players surely it’s worth it. 

Agree with this  

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Surely selling Maxi isn’t going to allow 3 signings?! 

[GEFAFWISP]

I mean with amortisation you can do anything, why stop at 3 when we can sign 20.

[Kid Icarus]

2 hours ago, Toon88 said:

Comparing to similar players in 22/23

 

Kvaratskhelia - Apps 34 games - 12 goals/10 assists

 

Leao - Apps - 35 games - 15 goals/8 assists

 

Vinicius Jnr - Apps - 33 games - 10 goals/9 assists

Grealish - Apps - 28 games - 5 goals/7 assists

 

Chukwueze - Apps - 37 games - 6 goals/5 assists

 

Harvey Barnes - Apps 34 games - 13 goals 

 

Saint-Maximin - Apps - 25 games - 1 goal/5 assists

 

Comparing to others, his stats showcase he’s not a genuine goal threat for the position he plays, compared to Europe’s elite. Assists is on a par level. Least appearances of all, showcasing his injury record. In the last four seasons (152 league games), he’s missed 41.

 

I fully appreciate what he has done and did for the club during the Ashley era. However, the club dynamic has changed, and our FFP restrictions, means he’s our biggest saleable asset and is therefore expendable. He’s not elite, the stats prove that, and he has an awful injury record. He’s also lost half a yard of pace protecting those hamstrings, and in his attempt to press to the demands Howe requires.

 

Time to sell. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

25 appearances is very misreading when he started 12 matches 

 

That's why per 90 is a better metric (providing they've still played a decent amount)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[Kanji]

Unless we are signing a proper elite LW who creates chances and gets g/a and has a fitness record that backs up 30+ starts in the previous few seasons, I see absolutely no reason to get rid of ASM for 30-40m. 

[Toon88]

52 minutes ago, Kanji said:

Unless we are signing a proper elite LW who creates chances and gets g/a and has a fitness record that backs up 30+ starts in the previous few seasons, I see absolutely no reason to get rid of ASM for 30-40m. 

 
But that’s probably what the club are trying to do, are they not? That’s the whole reason we’ve signed Isak, Bruno & Botman. The club are trying to progress, and get to the next level. Selling ASM gives them the opportunity to sign that elite winger, and in the process helps to alleviate the pressures of FFP. This notion too, that we have to spend £70m on a replacement, is nonsense. Barnes would be £40m, Lundstrom £35m etc. Could even do a Brighton and unearth a rough diamond for even less money.
 

It’s just mind boggling not to back such ambition from the club, instead settle for mediocrity, and continue to deal with an injury prone player, who you only see for 1/3 of a season.

 

If people are happy with that, then so be it. But if you want to get to the level of Man City, then you need to drastically alter your mindset, and become business savvy, and above all else, ruthless. 
 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Toon88

[ponsaelius]

1 hour ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Surely selling Maxi isn’t going to allow 3 signings?! 

 

I'm not pro-selling Maxi, as I like him a lot as a player, but there is certainly logic to doing so if we're playing with a limited budget and we get a good offer for him.

 

Say for arguments sake we have about 60 million left to spend. That is possibly going to get you one more top class player at Tonali level and then leave you scraping around for bargains/loan-to-buys to plug other gaps.

 

There's a pretty good argument that under Howe ASM is going to remain a wildcard option rather than ever being first choice left winger. If you were to bring in Diaby for £50 million as first choice right winger, he could also be an option on the left. Then if you sell ASM for £35-40 million to a Saudi club it leaves you with about £50 million to then spend on the defence. That could get Tierney and Livramento.

 

All this is hypothetical, and again I'd personally rather keep him, but there's no doubt that selling ASM would potentially give us more flexibility in the market and could ultimately lead to a more balanced squad.

[Interpolic]

1 hour ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Top 5 leagues I think? Although someone might correct me.

 

It's FBref, pretty cool to look at but @Toonjam88 is right it can still be massively misleading.

 

Cheers, found it on the website:

 

"Player compared to positional peers in Men's Big 5 Leagues, UCL, UEL over the last 365 days."

[Toonjam88]

1 hour ago, GEFAFWISP said:

I mean with amortisation you can do anything, why stop at 3 when we can sign 20.

Your just being a silly sausage now ?

[Pata]

47 minutes ago, Toon88 said:

 
But that’s probably what the club are trying to do, are they not? That’s the whole reason we’ve signed Isak, Bruno & Botman. The club are trying to progress, and get to the next level. Selling ASM gives them the opportunity to sign that elite winger, and in the process helps to alleviate the pressures of FFP. This notion too, that we have to spend £70m on a replacement, is nonsense. Barnes would be £40m, Lundstrom £35m etc. Could even do a Brighton and unearth a rough diamond for even less money.
 

It’s just mind boggling not to back such ambition from the club, instead settle for mediocrity, and continue to deal with an injury prone player, who you only see for 1/3 of a season.

 

If people are happy with that, then so be it. But if you want to get to the level of Man City, then you need to drastically alter your mindset, and become business savvy, and above all else, ruthless. 
 

 

 

 

There’s a lot of other mediocrity in the squad before we arrive to ASM. Also never a fan of selling a player at the lowest value if not absolutely necessary due to bad relationship with the manager or some other shite which isn’t the case here.

 

Once again if you really need to sell a winger you sell Almiron. Getting old and had a good season which is hard to replicate based on his history and the amount of worldies he scored. Also much easier to find a replacement to a player whose strengths are running around with a smile on his face. I know that’s harsh but I’m still not the biggest fan and wish he could use his right leg at least few times a season.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Pata

[STM]

I was going to leave it... but I can't help myself.

 

Why is any criticism turned into "oh you think he's a lazy French cunt"?

 

My view of Maxi is that once you get him fit (rare) then up to speed (takes half a dozen games) he's absolutely electric, terrifying for defenders and absolute asset to the side but how long should I wait for that?

 

It's easy to say well "he's started x games" or had "x amount of appearances" or "he's been available for x amount and wasn't played" but even in the times he was on the pitch he was either knackered, hobbling about, returning from injury or my favourite "doesn't suit being a substitute" .

 

I mean, what am I waiting for? someone to turn up with a magic wand and produce a Maxi that is a) fit b) injury free c) stays that way for 20+ games?

 

Let's call a spade a spade, as much as we would like it to happen, it won't. He will always be the mercurial winger who gives you amazing moments and fond memories but he's never going to be reliable.

 

I haven't even touched onto his place in our set up, which at best is questionable. Is he even first choice anymore? Does the team have to accommodate him? Does he press enough for Howe? Does he track back enough? 

 

Then there is his contract situation, rumour has it he wants a pay rise, on what basis? Because it can't be contribution to the team? Do the club want to do that?

 

40m for someone without many question marks over his head is a no brainer. As far I'm aware, taking in that amount of money would help our FFP situation out alot. 

[Jaqen]

2 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Surely selling Maxi isn’t going to allow 3 signings?! 

 

I think the argument is if we sell him for £30m profit in terms of FFP it would allow us to bring in another 3 players on Tonali type deals where they are valued at 10m per year. 

 

We wouldn't actually be getting 3 signings out of the £30m. 

 

I'm sure it's more complicated than that and future windows need to be taken into consideration etc but for a club like ours than has the money to spend just are restricted by FFP then it massively favours selling players you can profit on to increase how much you can spend. 

 

[GEFAFWISP]

53 minutes ago, Toon88 said:

 
But that’s probably what the club are trying to do, are they not? That’s the whole reason we’ve signed Isak, Bruno & Botman. The club are trying to progress, and get to the next level. Selling ASM gives them the opportunity to sign that elite winger, and in the process helps to alleviate the pressures of FFP. This notion too, that we have to spend £70m on a replacement, is nonsense. Barnes would be £40m, Lundstrom £35m etc. Could even do a Brighton and unearth a rough diamond for even less money.
 

It’s just mind boggling not to back such ambition from the club, instead settle for mediocrity, and continue to deal with an injury prone player, who you only see for 1/3 of a season.

 

If people are happy with that, then so be it. But if you want to get to the level of Man City, then you need to drastically alter your mindset, and become business savvy, and above all else, ruthless. 
 

 

 

 

Paul Dummett was just given a contract extension.

[STM]

1 minute ago, GEFAFWISP said:

Paul Dummett was just given a contract extension.

 

Relevance?

[GEFAFWISP]

Just now, STM said:

 

Relevance?

See the bolded.

[Toonjam88]

2 minutes ago, GEFAFWISP said:

Paul Dummett was just given a contract extension.

That’s due to needing so many homegrown players in the squad for the champions League 

[STM]

Just now, GEFAFWISP said:

See the bolded.

You know why we've kept Dummett though right? And what kind of wages he's on? And the off field contributions he makes etc?

 

Unless you think Eddie's team building, unity stuff is hocus pocus?

[GEFAFWISP]

1 minute ago, Toonjam88 said:

That’s due to needing so many homegrown players in the squad for the champions League 

Yes, but it doesn't scream ruthlessness and a desire to compete with Man City by keeping a League One talent around for an injury crisis. Which was my point, if we're being ruthless we've got a lot of chaff to shift first before ASM.