The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

[Shearergol]

55 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

No. If I wanted to call you all racists I would have said exactly that. You guys throw that stuff around at each other all the time on here.

 

I said I don't believe most England fans want black players playing for them. I'm not an idiot man. I have been out watching games numerous times among fans. I know the kinds of things I have seen and heard, and no I do not think it is just a case of them being racist. You lot use that term way too loosely and flippantly. I believe there is some tribal element also involved in regard to international representation as well.

 

I was talking about African and South American players going elsewhere originally and not the world's best players, which is why I then drew the correlation on what you said in response to my post, when you then spoke of tribalism.

It's part of the reason I don't think black players should play for England because I think deep down you guys don't really want it, but just aren't being honest about that.

so is it “you guys” or “most England fans”? For the record my vote is for black players to play for England. Only the good ones though. Yeah?

 

[KaKa]

5 minutes ago, MrRaspberryJam said:

Trying to think of the legend from champ man 01/02 but my minds gone blank. 

 

What position?

[MrRaspberryJam]

Just now, KaKa said:

 

What position?

it was julius aghahowa! 

[KaKa]

2 minutes ago, MrRaspberryJam said:

it was julius aghahowa! 

 

Unreal pace, but never really reached his potential, unfortunately.

[MrRaspberryJam]

2 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Unreal pace, but never really reached his potential, unfortunately.

not mean players who get coached by Paul Jewell at Wigan Atheltic do reach their potential. 

[KaKa]

15 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

It's part of the reason I don't think black players should play for England because I think deep down you guys don't really want it, but just aren't being honest about that.

so is it “you guys” or “most England fans”? For the record my vote is for black players to play for England. Only the good ones though. Yeah?

 

 

For the record I think it's fine if 'you guys' or 'most England fans', whichever you prefer, don't want us to play for England. My national team would actually benefit massively from that.

 

You'll see from my original post with that quote that I didn't give the poster grief for the idea, when I mistakenly thought he was referencing my point on African and South American players taking another option.

 

This was never supposed to be an argument about racism, but I know it's a topic that gets people really excited, but I've done my best to make my point clearer. Apparently it's not enough for you, so I won't bother responding to you anymore because you clearly just want to continue to argue about this.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by KaKa

[mondonewc]

3 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Except you can criticise because you’re a human being who cares about what happens to other human beings.  Empathy and all that.

 

The ignorance of many is truly fucking frightening to me.  ‘KSA is no worse than anywhere else’.  There’s an easy test for this - go out onto the streets of London and start a protest against the government.  Then do the same in Riyadh.  I’d say come back and let me know the results, but the second one would see you executed. 

Your response doesn't really seem at all appropriate to what I wrote as I didn't state at any point that it shouldn't be criticised? Nor did the person I was quoting. You've also made up a quote that I didn't write or even imply which seems odd when directly replying to my post so not sure if you misread my message, misquoted it or just went off on a tangent? 

[mondonewc]

3 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Except you can criticise because you’re a human being who cares about what happens to other human beings.  Empathy and all that.

 

The ignorance of many is truly fucking frightening to me.  ‘KSA is no worse than anywhere else’.  There’s an easy test for this - go out onto the streets of London and start a protest against the government.  Then do the same in Riyadh.  I’d say come back and let me know the results, but the second one would see you executed. 

Your response doesn't really seem at all appropriate to what I wrote as I didn't state at any point that it shouldn't be criticised? Nor did the person I was quoting. You've also made up a quote that I didn't write or even imply which seems odd when directly replying to my post so not sure if you misread my message, misquoted it or just went off on a tangent? 

[TheBrownBottle]

48 minutes ago, mondonewc said:

Your response doesn't really seem at all appropriate to what I wrote as I didn't state at any point that it shouldn't be criticised? Nor did the person I was quoting. You've also made up a quote that I didn't write or even imply which seems odd when directly replying to my post so not sure if you misread my message, misquoted it or just went off on a tangent? 

The second part isn’t a response to you - only the first bit. 

[toontownman]

Thought I'd come in check out this thread and see what was happening..

[80]

I've only skim read the past few pages in reverse order so happy to be told I'm wrong/misinterpreting anything.

 

But we can't really be surprised that a black man thinks visceral racism is entrenched in the country and segregation is inevitable when this forum spends half it's time calling the country a racist country full of racists who vote for a racist fascist government run by a corrupt political party whose main electoral appeal is its dogwhistling to not-so-crypto fascist racists. If you think a black man isn't going to be negatively affected by that kind of talk, you may be suffering from 'white privilege'.

 

I think Kaka is very wrong about things like the standard English attitude to black England players. But when every day is portrayed as a firefight against racism for players like Saka, what is he to think?

 

That's why, referring back to a brief conversation we had about Joelinton and the Arsenal racism the other day, I think it's very important to be forensic about who has said what, when and why, and to be careful with our language about it. It's because racism is a very serious subject, and making glib, point-scoring declarations about it can do far more harm than good in ways we haven't begun to imagine.

[Peppe]

8 hours ago, LionOfGosforth said:

Loved a bit of Tijani Babangida myself, always had a thing for direct pacy wingers in the Overmars mould

 

Jay Jay Okocha  

[Heron]

4 hours ago, toontownman said:

Thought I'd come in check out this thread and see what was happening..

This was me last night too

[Coffee_Johnny]

8 hours ago, Mills and Boon said:

First time I've been in this thread. Saw one of the wildest takes on the internet. Is that par for the course or just some Friday night hijinks?

Closed season. Standard.

[simonsays]

Here i was thinking that nothing would be more unhinged than the transfer rumours thread...

[mondonewc]

7 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

The second part isn’t a response to you - only the first bit. 

Ok, but then as I said in my follow up message at no point did I suggest it shouldn't be criticised so no idea where you're coming from with that? You implied I lack empathy for other human beings which seems a bit out of line given I didn't state anything of the sort. 

[Collage]

11 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

It really should. I just don't think you have the same kind of affinity for black players historically.

 

Completely different thing from you having a problem with every black person you see.

 

Yeah, it’s not like Tino Asprilla and Les Ferdinand are club legends or anything

[KaKa]

Yeah, must have missed all the Tino Asprilla caps for England.

[Hovagod]

Leaving aside the Newcastle angle (where I don’t think it applies), and the rather explosive manner in which it was first presented, it is quite an interesting point Kaka is raising. 

[Kid Icarus]

That we all secretly don't want black players playing for England but we're just not being honest about it.

 

Interesting is a word you could use, aye.

[buzza]

Some nuanced writing over the last couple of pages with many suppositions and little statistical backing.

Would rather you all talked it through together (Saudi Embassy?) in a nice relaxed ambience…

[KaKa]

Unfortunately, when all that unsavoury behaviour kicks off around black players, I really think you guys underestimate the negative impact that stuff has, and you can't imagine the kind of discussions that it sparks within the communities those players come from. If you think what I've said yesterday is extreme ... then you really can't even begin to imagine I promise you.

[buzza]

13 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

Yeah, I think it's probably for the best for English football as I think most of you feel this way. It's part of the reason I don't think black players should play for England because I think deep down you guys don't really want it, but just aren't being honest about that.

This is a crazy statement Kaka.

If you have ever studied politics or sociology you will know that the two extremes of the bell curve are where you will find “radicals” who are capable of triggering interest (media) and blowing things out of proportion.

I also find it flabbergasting that people would not want their best players in their team because of the colour of their skin, it makes no sense. 
We all at times want ASM out of the team for his lack of defensive work and huffs, but I have never ever heard anyone criticise his involvement because of his colour.

As for england; I stopped going to England games over twenty years ago because it seemed to me that they attracted the scum of the earth(bell-ends again!)  worst support I have seen in my life! Would never go back.

If you were using only the people who attend england games as your base statistic, then I could possibly see where you are coming from…

[KaKa]

1 minute ago, buzza said:

This is a crazy statement Kaka.

If you have ever studied politics or sociology you will know that the two extremes of the bell curve are where you will find “radicals” who are capable of triggering interest (media) and blowing things out of proportion.

I also find it flabbergasting that people would not want their best players in their team because of the colour of their skin, it makes no sense. 
We all at times want ASM out of the team for his lack of defensive work and huffs, but I have never ever heard anyone criticise his involvement because of his colour.

As for england; I stopped going to England games over twenty years ago because it seemed to me that they attracted the scum of the earth(bell-ends again!)  worst support I have seen in my life! Would never go back.

If you were using only the people who attend england games as your base statistic, then I could possibly see where you are coming from…

 

buzza ... there was a full conversation that went on about this where I had to clear up a misunderstanding with the guy that originally quoted my post, and so you'll have to read through that.

 

Ultimately though, my comment on not wanting black players in the team was in reference to the national setup, and even in your post, you've kind of touched upon what I was referring to in regards to England supporters, because I too have been around that kind of England support, and so I know exactly what I was referring to, when I made that statement.

[Jaqen]

I mean it is extreme that you don't think black players should represent England because we secretly don't want it. 

 

I honestly think Saka and Bellingham are probably the two most loved England players in the current squad.