Jump to content

The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread


UncleBingo
 Share

Recommended Posts

No, I really don’t .

 

The Saudis have been a business partner with the UK for years , why be any different around them now? 
 

I get the feeling of some but sorry I just dont feel guilty one little bit.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I'm uncomfortable about it, but I mean I use amazon and facebook and drive a car that's polluting. I am trying to be less reliant on them, and with this I will just keep bringing up how awful they are to try and undermine their sportwashing. If anyone is to blame though it is the whole league, other fans really need to wonder, what did they think the league was? Some moral church? 

 

Football is a million miles away from what it should be. I will register my discomfort with my beloved club's association with torturers and murderers but I have made my peace with enjoying the investment in both the club and area

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not a fan of the Saudi flag waving. But… is there not an element of it just being a very human trait of trying to establish common ground and friendly terms with someone you are well disposed towards because they have just bought your club after 14 years of hell? Being welcoming etc.. I don’t think some people think in terms of geopolitics. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I get it. I’ll not stop supporting the club or stop myself from experiencing joy over it but it disappoints me that the clubs name will constantly be dragged thru the dirt and the fans will continue to be questioned like we can do any fucking thing about it. 
 

the media while having the absolute right to bring up the Human rights element are questioning the wrong people. They should be questioning  Mike Ashley & the PL about the moral aspect of it. It always amuses me how almost every fan that’s been interviewed gets asked about the human rights in Saudi Arabia but you’ll bet not a single player that signs will get grief about taking the Saudi money.

 

that being said we as fans need to be vocal against discrimination and human rights abuse and certainly not bring out Saudi mag teeshirts 

 

 

Edited by gdm

Link to post
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, UncleBingo said:

Definitely feel like we need to have a thread about this, as I'm currently feeling very conflicted about the takeover.

 

Is it just me?

No, it’s not just you. I’m uncomfortable with it and we should continue talking about it. But at the same time we shouldn’t feel guilty, we don’t pick our owners, we’re allowed to celebrate Ashley leaving and to look forward to better times, much better times. It’s the flag-waving, making excuses and taking a stand for the Saudis politically I have a problem with.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I must admit I have felt the same way myself.

 

I do like to console myself with the fact that whatever practices they do over there isn't going to change any of our own values or practices over here, I mean the club is now fronted by a woman, talking about creating a proper womans football team and surely that is progression if nothing else?

 

Didn't the premier league also deem the saudi state and PIF as seperate entities? it is not the job of a football fan merely looking for hope to police the world or how a country is ran, if you want to blame anyone the anger should be at the broken system which allows any of this to take place.

 

The saudi flag waving and true faith T-shirt thing is absolutely embarrassing though, there's being excited and supporting the club and then there's that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The privilege of being born and raised in third world country full of hardship etc: I don't care any of those things. My life already choke full with personal issues/problems that I really don't have any energy left to worry about problem that far away from me in another country. I support NUFC to forget about my problems not to add another.

 

 

Edited by veriaqa

Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m very uncomfortable with the whole thing too. I’m trying to justify it to myself constantly, I hated Ashley but still supported the team at times (mainly under Rafa) and wished us to do well without taking to twitter trying to defend his actions away from football. I’ll be doing the same here but I am equally worried as excited about the future of football and Newcastle. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone draws their own lines for themselves.

 

The overwhelming majority of people, by necessity, have to compartmentalise issues which link their everyday world and what they deem moral impropriety.

 

For some supporting a club funded by a state they deem immoral is not okay, but queueing up for Shell petrol with links to the same regime is acceptable.

 

I'm a vegan and consuming animal products or wearing them is is not okay for me, but my mind has made peace with the fact I will sit on couches and in cars (not my own) with leather seats. Is this hypocrisy? I don't think so. I don't proclaim my values absolute and my principles in this regard don't unflinchingly supersede my and my family's participation in society.

 

However I totally understand other vegans may take a different approach, but unless you're some sannyasi, absolutely detached from the material world, I think it would be hypocritical to castigate all but those who are directly involved in perpetrating the immoral acts themselves.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Of course I have misgivings about the way that Saudi Arabia operates as a country but I find it fairly easy to subscribe to the If My Country Sells Them Weapons Then I Don't See Why They Can't Bankroll My Club school of thought.  There are plenty of other incidental things which improve my life but are not essentials that I should have ethical misgivings about which I choose to ignore; this will be another one.  That might be reprehensible, but I've squared it with my conscience and by the same token personally speaking I don't give a fuck about anybody who chooses to celebrate with a Saudi flag or whatever.  I'm long past being embarrassed on behalf of other people, or feeling that their actions reflect on me.

 

The thing I really don't understand is why it's Newcastle United fans being held to account over it throughout the media.  Easy targets, I guess.

 

 

Edited by OpenC

Link to post
Share on other sites

Somebody on RTG questioned whether any players might refuse to sign on ethical grounds.  That's a reasonable question tbh.  I suspect not many if any, but it's something I could see coming down the line.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it’s totally reasonable to have reservations. I also think it’s reasonable for people to not give a shit. Ultimately we’re just fans, and it’s ridiculous to expect people to wrestle with some pretty weighty questions when they just want to watch people kick a football around for 90 minutes. The same questions that wider polite society refuses to answer. Where I draw the line is defending the Saudis, which some of our fans will now do because that’s football.

 

Which camp do I fall into? I am conflicted. I’m not comfortable with the club being used to sportswash anyone’s reputation, be them avaricious capitalist tosser or murderous despot (not the same level obviously, but the point still stands). My dream is an NUFC that is owned by the fans. I’ll not be 100 per cent satisfied until that is the case. But I also recognise that’s not deliverable in the short to medium term. We need legislation and government intervention to make that happen. It may come, it may not but until anything changes football ownership is just going to be a game of dickhead Top Trumps.

 

At the end of the day we spent 13 years trying to exercise some degree of control over who owned our club while a reasonably large portion of the sports media looked on bemused, some actively hostile to the protests. What finally tipped the balance? Nothing we did, but someone turning up and offering Ashley cold hard cash. The idea we have any power or responsibility in this situation is daft. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm about 70 no/30 yes.

 

I don't like how being ridiculously rich gets you up the ladder but that's the way our society is built, not just football. Money is everything. This really is the biggest issue here.

 

I don't like where the money is coming from but I'd say that about most potential owners. Granted, they're a really bad example but our own violent history in the middle east really isn't great - there are many shades of grey in this area. We should still continue to highlight where we disagree with their regime. This is also a chance to help progress ideas in Saudi too, amazingly.

 

I don't think we've 'sold our soul'. The Premier League sold the whatever the 'soul' of English football was many years ago. We didn't control who bought us and we're not actually adopting Saudi values ourselves. Some have genuinely suggested we advocate beheadings because we still support Newcastle - this is absolutely bizarre logic. As others have said though, we can't go around putting MBS' face on things etc. Our message should be consistent going forward - new era, hope, regional pride, inclusivity, LGBTQ etc. What the fans represent and believe in is absolutely not the same as what an owner believes in. This should be obvious.

 

I'm not actually convinced sports washing is the slam dunk many journalists think it is either. I already knew the Saudi state is bad, some mates didn't before because they're not interested in geopolitics but now have seen what they're capable of and they don't like them either, but they still want to support the team. So I don't feel 'complicit' in this sense because I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be complicit in. There seems to be a misunderstanding that defending our reaction to this situation is actually defending the Saudi state.

Link to post
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, UncleBingo said:

Do I really need to explain why??

Would like to hear your take on it. I don’t read a lot of news or what goes on in other countries so I’d like to know your reasons. 👍🏼

Link to post
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, OpenC said:

Somebody on RTG questioned whether any players might refuse to sign on ethical grounds.  That's a reasonable question tbh.  I suspect not many if any, but it's something I could see coming down the line.

Bryan Danielson certainly not signing. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, sh74 said:

Would like to hear your take on it. I don’t read a lot of news or what goes on in other countries so I’d like to know your reasons. 👍🏼

There's a good starting point.

 

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/saudi-arabia-human-rights-raif-badawi-king-salman

 

Would be interested to see whether the not the Trust would be open to pushing PIF on some of these issues, and we could actually be a force for good.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, UncleBingo said:

There's a good starting point.

 

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/saudi-arabia-human-rights-raif-badawi-king-salman

 

Would be interested to see whether the not the Trust would be open to pushing PIF on some of these issues, and we could actually be a force for good.

The Trust ? The Saudi Mags Trust ? Dont hold yer breath ...

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Rich changed the title to Delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership.
  • Rich changed the title to The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...