Eddie Howe

[NUFC_Chris]

I’m not convinced Emery coming in would’ve kept us up at the time, though arguably he could get more out of this current crop of players. I’m still a huge fan of Eddie and I think he’ll turn it around, as he has always done to date. Are people forgetting we’re fourth in terms of total points since he took over. 

[Erikse]

7 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Nah Villa had a better squad and a better academy. 
 

The GK

Cash

Konsa

Mings

Digne

mcGinn

Ramsey

Coutinho

the main striker 

Bailey was there 

Douglas Luiz

 

 

Come on man that’s a talented squad.  Way better than the one Howe took over. 
 

All of those players are better than Longstaff, Almiron and many others. Like talent wise for their position. Gerrard was a TERRIBLE manager.  I keep saying it - Bruce wasn’t. Bruce had over 10 years in the PL and like 3 Champ promotions. Gerrard won’t do that. 

 

Admittedly I didn't remember their team being this good, so I agree that theirs were better. Should've checked that better. But Bruce was using Joelinton as a striker and Schär was the 5th choice CB behind Dummet and Clark, while we were conceding goals for fun. This gives the perception that our squad was worse than what it really was.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 12:01 by Erikse

[Hanshithispantz]

Just now, janpawel said:

Yeah, I think Villa are a 'high floor' team, especially considering the way they recruited in the summer. Whereas we have had some outstanding games and blew teams away in impressive manner

 

Then again, I remember watching Villa vs Man City last season and I thought that was the best I'd ever seen a team play against City, absolutely dominated them 

Aye that game was very impressive. 

[TRon]

2 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

I think Villa had, and still have, a better squad. The issue is that they've maintained steady form and Emery's style is always being realised. Currentlt we're unable to implament Howe's.

 

I genuinely believe we're a far more dangerous team than them, regardless of playing staff, when on song, but we're a bit fucked if we're having to scrap our plan A against every side in the league away from home.

 

Not convinced we are better than them over a season like. We need our first 11 operating at top level game in game out, if a few of them are below par we look pretty bad.

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

I think Villa had, and still have, a better squad. The issue is that they've maintained steady form and Emery's style is always being realised. Currently we're unable to implament Howe's.

 

I genuinely believe we're a far more dangerous team than them, regardless of playing staff, when on song, but we're a bit fucked if we're having to scrap our plan A against every side in the league away from home.

 

 

 

Yep. Deeper squad. More sustainable style of play too. More technical but they have the players for it. There’s an argument they have a top 5/6 academy in the country too. Using them for FFP shithousing. 
 

Far better foundations. 
 

we have richer owners but I don’t know if ours are as invested as Villa’s.  They made mistakes along the way but corrected them. 

 

2 minutes ago, janpawel said:

Then add 500m spend to this squad, if anything there expectations should be way higher than o

[Solitude20]

Now, clearly the 4-3-3 isn’t working. Howe has tried 4-4-2, 3-4-3, and 3-5-2. 

We played well in the few times we tried 4-4-2 including last game. Teams tend to shy away from this formation as the midfield can easily be overrun when facing a midfield of 3, and that’s true. However, if your forwards defend and press a lot and your 2 midfielders have the needed physicality for it, then it would be a great formation just like what Atleti has shown. It could be physically demanding in order to maintain shape and prevent your midfield from getting overrun. It’s after all Eddie’s favorite formation back in the Bournemouth days. 
 

3-5-2 or 3-4-3 would also work with our play style, but I don’t think we impressed in the few times we tried them. 

What is clear as day is that our 4-3-3 hasn’t worked for a while now, and I am confident Eddie would figure it out. 
 

 

[Hanshithispantz]

6 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Not convinced we are better than them over a season like. We need our first 11 operating at top level game in game out, if a few of them are below par we look pretty bad.

If we can maintain our energy levels and keep our press performing then I think we get back to battering any side who isn't top shelf playing out from the back.

 

There was a time when we were too much for pretty much any side other than Man City. Even Arsenal and Liverpool looked shit scared of us at times (although Liverpool annoying always won). 

 

I think we're capable of getting back to that.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 12:08 by Hanshithispantz

[The College Dropout]

5 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Not convinced we are better than them over a season like. We need our first 11 operating at top level game in game out, if a few of them are below par we look pretty bad.

I think that was his point. 

 

7 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

Admittedly I didn't remember their team being this good, so I agree that theirs were better. Should've checked that better. But Bruce was using Joelinton as a striker and Schär was the 5th choice CB behind Dummet and Clark, while we were conceding goals for fun. This gives the perception that our squad was worse than what it really was.

 

 

 

They already started spending before Emery came in. They gave Gerrard the keys and they mostly bought well. The last manager lost his job when they wanted to push on. 
 

11th those years was about right though. The squad he left was a bottom 6/7. The atmosphere and Bruce limitations were being exposed. But we signed Villa’s backup LB for a reason.  We signed someone pushing 30 who spent their career in Lower leagues and a bottom half PL club for a reason. They were upgrades on what we had.  Without the signings + Howe - we would’ve struggled.  It was a bad squad. Bruce wasn’t getting 100% out of it sure but he was a patsy. 

[Erikse]

3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Yep. Deeper squad. More sustainable style of play too. More technical but they have the players for it. There’s an argument they have a top 5/6 academy in the country too. Using them for FFP shithousing. 
 

Far better foundations. 
 

we have richer owners but I don’t know if ours are as invested as Villa’s.  They made mistakes along the way but corrected them. 

 

 

This argument is valid if they have spent more in pure spending, but atleast in terms of transfers fees they haven't. To my knowledge we have generated more in some other areas, but that's besides the point.

 

I accept that their team was better to start with, but Emery has also gotten the best out of some players that were percieved to not be the best before he came in.

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, Hanshithispantz said:

If we can maintain our energy levels and keep our press performing then I think we get back to battering any side who isn't top shelf playing out from the back.

 

There was a time when we were too much for pretty much any side other than Man City. Even Arsenal and Liverpool looked shit scared of us (although Liverpool annoying always won). 

 

I think we're capable of getting back to that.

That’s a tougher ask than what Emery asks of his lads. Especially with the squad depth issues.  

[Erikse]

11 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I think that was his point. 

 

They already started spending before Emery came in. They gave Gerrard the keys and they mostly bought well. The last manager lost his job when they wanted to push on. 
 

11th those years was about right though. The squad he left was a bottom 6/7. The atmosphere and Bruce limitations were being exposed. But we signed Villa’s backup LB for a reason.  We signed someone pushing 30 who spent their career in Lower leagues and a bottom half PL club for a reason. They were upgrades on what we had.  Without the signings + Howe - we would’ve struggled.  It was a bad squad. Bruce wasn’t getting 100% out of it sure but he was a patsy. 

 

I included 21/22, even the summer that season, in the comparison by the way. Emery took over in 22/23. In total we have spent way more under Howe than they have with Emery, but with 1 season more. If we compare the teams when Emery took over, we had Bruno, Trippier, Botman, Pope ad Isak by then. Probably spent the same from that point onwards aswell.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 12:19 by Erikse

[Hanshithispantz]

Just now, The College Dropout said:

That’s a tougher ask than what Emery asks of his lads. Especially with the squad depth issues.  

Aye I agree, and being bitten like we were with injuries last season has obviously effected us.

 

I still think we need to gamble and play with intensity though, I just cannot see Howe surviving otherwise. 

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, Erikse said:

 

This argument is valid if they have spent more in pure spending, but atleast in terms of transfers fees they haven't. To my knowledge we have generated more in some other areas, but that's besides the point.

 

I accept that their team was better to start with, but Emery has also gotten the best out of some players that were percieved to not be the best before he came in.

Last accounts either their squad cost or wages were higher than ours. We are both 7 & 8 in all the expenditures. Kamara and Tielemans earn £15m combined.  
 

I agree Emery has done a fantastic job. But Villa’s transformation precedes him several years.  He benefitted from that. Emery and Monchi were 2 of the last pieces. 
 

Howe joked months after the takeover with a skeleton club. Howe’s had cash but that’s it (and a great positive atmosphere). Emery turned us down for that reason. Emery knew he didn’t need much to turn around Gerrards team.  Everything else was in place or close to being in place. 

[gbandit]

Good post 

[Kanji]

9 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

If we can maintain our energy levels and keep our press performing then I think we get back to battering any side who isn't top shelf playing out from the back.

 

There was a time when we were too much for pretty much any side other than Man City. Even Arsenal and Liverpool looked shit scared of us at times (although Liverpool annoying always won). 

 

I think we're capable of getting back to that.

 

 

 

just look at what we did to Paris at home and Arsenal at home just as early as last season. The Arsenal one in particular was an all out slug fest. 

[The College Dropout]

6 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

I included 21/22, even the summer that season, in the comparison by the way. Emery took over in 22/23. In total Howe has spent way more, but with 1 season more. If we compare the teams when Emery took over, we had Bruno, Trippier, Botman, Pope ad Isak by then. Probably spent the same from that point onwards aswell.

 

 

 

What’s your point? 
 

My point is Emery has better foundations.  Squad. Academy. Leadership. They then brought in Emerys guy as DoF. 
 

6 of their starters yesterday were there when he joined. Compared to 3 for Howe. Howe has had to club build. Emery hasn’t. 
 

And yeh Emery has done wonders with McGinn and Watkins. Got Digne back to his best. He’s tops. 

[The College Dropout]

This is not to say I think Howe is the guy that will take us to the promise land.  Howe has club built before.  He’s got the best out of players before.  
 

Is he a guy they can fit into a modern top club structure and maintain performance with European commitments? Can he win trophies? I don’t know. 
 

But I’ll give credit where it’s due. 
 

Emery is more proven at a higher level. But could he club build? He didn’t want too with us. 
 

Emery is benefitting now from joining a club years into its transformation. While Howe is suffering from a club moving on from phase 1 of their transformation.  It’s a lot deeper than just money in money out. But aye we should finish 7th and 8th. I think the reasons we may diverge is how developed and aligned the clubs are off the pitch. 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 12:27 by The College Dropout

[Erikse]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

What’s your point? 
 

My point is Emery has better foundations.  Squad. Academy. Leadership. They then brought in Emerys guy as DoF. 
 

6 of their starters yesterday were there when he joined. Compared to 3 for Howe. Howe has had to club build. Emery hasn’t. 
 

And yeh Emery has done wonders with McGinn and Watkins. Got Digne back to his best. He’s tops. 

 

You started talking about how they spent before Emery took over, so I pointed out that part of this was already included in the argument that we have spent the same in fees sine 21/22. That's all. But if we are discussing progress up until this point, it's pretty important to consider that Howe has had 1 year more than Emery.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 12:27 by Erikse

[Geordie_once_removed]

14 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Yep. Deeper squad. More sustainable style of play too. More technical but they have the players for it. There’s an argument they have a top 5/6 academy in the country too. Using them for FFP shithousing. 
 

Far better foundations. 
 

we have richer owners but I don’t know if ours are as invested as Villa’s.  They made mistakes along the way but corrected them. 

 

I'm not sure that our owners aren't interested but I do remember an interview Mohammed bin Salman did where his dismissed sportswashing claims and said he was only interested in investing in sport (perhaps Newcastle was directly mentioned, I can't remember) in order to make a profit.  I think a strong argument could be made that that goal with Newcastle has been achieved and spending what is needed to actually compete at the top level is not a sound investment so PIF aren't interested in doing it. They remain interested in spending enough to maintain their position and the value their "asset" currently has, but not much more.

 

Those comments when they took over re: winning the league etc. could easily have just been one of those things people have to say when they buy clubs and they were taken too seriously by the media.  They might also not have fully released PSR constraints or exactly how much would be needed to truly compete, either way the end result would be the same.

 

That we could ultimately be reduced to being a line in a spreadsheet detailing investment performance of PIF was one of the (many) reasons I wasn't, and still aren't, thrilled with the takeover. I could be wrong and if I am I won't mind admitting it. I'm also not convinced this is what has happened but its definitely possible.

[Kanji]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

This is not to say I think Howe is the guy that will take us to the promise land.  Howe has club built before.  He’s got the best out of players before.  
 

Is he a guy they can fit into a modern top club structure and maintain performance with European commitments? Can he win trophies? I don’t know. 
 

But I’ll give credit where it’s due. 
 

Emery is more proven at a higher level. But could he club build? He didn’t want too with us. 
 

Emery is benefitting now from joining a club years into its transformation. While Howe is suffering from a club moving on from phase 1 of their transformation.  It’s a lot deeper than just money in money out. But aye we should finish 7th and 8th. I think the reasons we may diverge is how developed and aligned the clubs are off the pitch. 

 

 

 

Great post mate. 

[Bimpy474]

Looking through the posts, and while there's a few back and forth points being made, the overall thing most seemingly agree on is how we've started from a much lower platform.

 

And that is true, we spent so long as a zombie club, we are years behind, the relative success under Eddie in league positions, is quite astonishing when you step back and see where we were when he took over.

 

Right now he does need to tweak things, he'll know that better than most, and I think he will. He certainly deserves the time to.

[SUPERTOON]

I’d just love to know where and why the press has gone tbh. I dont think our current squad are good enough to play any other way.

[The College Dropout]

Just now, Erikse said:

 

You started talking about how they spent before Emery took over, so I pointed out that part of this was already included in the argument that we have spent the same in fees sine 21/22. That's all. But if we are discussing progress up until this point, it's pretty important to consider that Howe and the new owners has had 1 year more than the Emery project.

Nah the Villa project precedes Emery by several years. Thats like saying the Guardiola project started when he joined. No - it started with the takeover. They tailored it for Guardiola with the Pellegrini era when they got Txiki and co in.  Txiki hiring is the latest you can say the Guardiola project started.  
 

 

Our project starts Nov 2021. Howe joins in December or whatever. The richest man in Egypt bought Villa in 2018. Within a year they sign McGinn, Mings, Luiz, Targett, Konsa. Emery is benefitting from 3.5 years of development before he joins. 
 

I’m not sure when they start investing in the academy. But that’s happening in the background too. 
 

 

There’s a good reason Emery turned us down but didn’t turn down Villa. 

[Erikse]

22 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Nah the Villa project precedes Emery by several years. Thats like saying the Guardiola project started when he joined. No - it started with the takeover. They tailored it for Guardiola with the Pellegrini era when they got Txiki and co in.  Txiki hiring is the latest you can say the Guardiola project started.  
 

 

Our project starts Nov 2021. Howe joins in December or whatever. The richest man in Egypt bought Villa in 2018. Within a year they sign McGinn, Mings, Luiz, Targett, Konsa. Emery is benefitting from 3.5 years of development before he joins. 
 

I’m not sure when they start investing in the academy. But that’s happening in the background too. 
 

 

There’s a good reason Emery turned us down but didn’t turn down Villa. 

 

Hence why I said part of it - for example some of the good players that you mentioned he took over was brought in during 21/22, so they were included in those 519m euros I talked about.

 

I have also already accepted that Emery took over a better team, although at the time being our team had already become pretty good, thanks to Howe and the recruitment team. Probably even better than Villas team, with the likes of Isak, Trippier, Bruno and Botman now being in the mix? But also less balanced.

 

After this it the progress has stalled a bit while Villa seem to keep progressing, despite seemingly not spending much more than us all things considered, and also selling som decent players that I think makes their net spent lower than ours. Lets see what happens when the CL games starts taking its toll on them.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 12:56 by Erikse

[Tiresias]

The overperformance of the 4th season has kinda coloured a lot since. We know what these players can do. Gordon and Isak last season show how good they are. This isn't apparent yet and our defence still seems shakey.