Eddie Howe

[Holmesy]

3 minutes ago, 54 said:

You mean like when we played 5-3-2 against Spurs, with Elliot Anderson, and then Joelinton playing as a left wing back, and Willock as a pressing forward. Or when we clearly played on the counter again Arsenal a few weeks ago, and against Nottingham Forest to in fact.  

yeah, that

[KaKa]

Things fell apart against West Ham with Willock having to go off injured.

 

Do we perhaps need a more reliable upgrade for that role he plays, then he can just be a rotation option as he does pick up a fair amount of knocks?

 

I'm actually dreading seeing the starting lineup for the Palace game. Can almost tell now from our lineup how the game is going to go. Not sure it will be one that works well, especially if Willock is out.

[Kanj]

Howe’s plan A has worked far more often than not, hence his incredible record here despite PSR constraints that have limited our ability to continue improve the starting 11 and squad depth. No manager is perfect, all of them make mistakes, it’s football. 
 

Not many top end managers chop and change systems and tactics every week unless they are playing for survival. 

[Gallowgate Toon]

At the time, I wasn't too disgruntled about Barnes coming on but, thinking back, our midfield to win the game vs. Forest was Bruno-Tonali-Longstaff. Should've just gone with that and introduced Barnes later.

[Kanj]

2 minutes ago, KaKa said:

Things fell apart against West Ham with Willock having to go off injured.

 

Do we perhaps need a more reliable upgrade for that role he plays, then he can just be a rotation option as he does pick up a fair amount of knocks?

 

I'm actually dreading seeing the starting lineup for the Palace game. Can almost tell now from our lineup how the game is going to go. Not sure it will be one that works well, especially if Willock is out.

Little Joe was in training photos yesterday so I assume he’s good to go 

[Erikse]

40 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

Yeah. Not sure how you can watch that game and say it was just different players. We went to a different system a couple of times second half. Towards the end it was basically get it to Murphy and whip it into the box at every opportunity. 
 

Whether you think it was a shit tactic and formation change (I do) or not is a different matter. 
 

We’ve also made in-game tweaks and changes this season that have won us games. So saying we have no plan B is nonsense. 

 

I think the real problem this season is that we very often concede the first goal. Statistics time.

In 8 league games we've conceded first. We've scored first in 3 of them. One ended 0-0.

We've been down by a goal at half time in 7 out of 12 (2 down vs Fulham). We've been in the lead 3 times (won all 3 by 1 goal).

 

Historically under Howe our gameplan has worked best when we've taken the lead in the first half, and then punish the opponent when they push for an equalizer. We've had none of the bigger wins that we used to have. I think part of it is missing chances in the first half, then conceding simple goals, and the rest of the game gets really affected by that. Whereas if we score early it's a different game.

 

In a way this season is a bit different in that we've keept the lead by not conceding more rather than scoring lots of goals. Also we've actually bounced back from a losing in the second half in 4 out of 7 games (taking 8 points from those).

 

 

Edited Thursday at 12:04 by Erikse

[Holmesy]

8 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

 

Hardly a radical change?  In the hunt for goals.  We lost a load of control in the middle, we were a lot weaker off the ball and defensively down the wings with Barnes and Murphy in place of Joelinton and Gordon, we had 2 strikers on the pitch, a rarity for us.  We were chucking in loads of early crosses, again, a rarity for us.  

 

We were shit at all of the above  but you're massively moving the goalposts to fit you clear agenda against Howe, amidst some thinly veiled 'I still really like him' posts. 

 

 

 

Chill out big guy, we're all just having a conversation. I don't think i've moved my goalposts at all but fair enough.
I've been open since last season about my Eddie Howe doubts, but last time I checked there weren't any laws against that. We're not clones. We all have our own opinions on these things. And if we can't discuss them here without someone getting their knickers in a twist, what's the fucking point in a forum?!

I want him to succeed here, I really do. I just don't think he's good enough to match the club's ambitions. If i'm proved wrong, I would be delighted to come on here and eat humble pie.

[Kanj]

1 minute ago, Erikse said:

 

I think the real problem this season is that we very often concede the first goal. Statistics time.

In 8 league games we've conceded first. We've scored first in 3 of them. One ended 0-0.

We've been down by a goal at half time in 7 out of 12 (2 down vs Fulham). We've been in the lead 3 times (won all 3 by 1 goal).

 

Historically under Howe our gameplan has worked best when we've taken the lead in the first half, and then punish the opponent when they push for an equalizer. We've had none of the bigger wins that we used to have. I think part of it is missing chances in the first half, then conceding simple goals, and the rest of the game gets really affected by that. Whereas if we score early it's a different game.

 

In a way this season is a bit different in that we've keept the lead by not conceding more rather than scoring lots of goals. Also we've actually bounces back from a losing in the second half in 4 out of 7 games (taking 8 points from those).

 

 

 

second goal killed us off like. Willock going off for Tonali and I’d venture to say we crawl back into the game and get a point at least. 

[Erikse]

Just now, Kanj said:

second goal killed us off like. Willock going off for Tonali and I’d venture to say we crawl back into the game and get a point at least. 

 

We need to stop making it difficult for ourselves in the first half. I'm tired of watching us chase a comeback in most games.

[Kanj]

1 minute ago, Erikse said:

 

We need to stop making it difficult for ourselves in the first half. I'm tired of watching us chase a comeback in most games.

Ya isak on 4 goals in the league? Gordon with what 1-2? That’s a problem!

[OverThere]

1 minute ago, Kanj said:

Ya isak on 4 goals in the league? Gordon with what 1-2? That’s a problem!

Agree and they miss some sitters unfortunately. There were 2 against WH that you would expect a bang average player to score.

[Kanj]

Could easily simplify football discussion about our fortunes this season in one very simple comment: our finishing has been poor, we’ve underperformed our xG. Take our chances and it’s a different story here. 

[Lush Vlad]

7 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Chill out big guy, we're all just having a conversation. I don't think i've moved my goalposts at all but fair enough.
I've been open since last season about my Eddie Howe doubts, but last time I checked there weren't any laws against that. We're not clones. We all have our own opinions on these things. And if we can't discuss them here without someone getting their knickers in a twist, what's the fucking point in a forum?!

I want him to succeed here, I really do. I just don't think he's good enough to match the club's ambitions. If i'm proved wrong, I would be delighted to come on here and eat humble pie.

 

Perhaps a bit strong, sorry   But you clearly did move the goalposts.  No plan B, then you say we just switched players and no formation change against West Ham, which doesn't constitute a plan B.  When that just quite clearly isn't true if you watched the game for more than 5 minutes second half.  Then it's not about formation change, but something else like how we press.  Which might also fall under your categorisation of tweaks to the original formation.  Which is still just plan A based on what you've posted further back.

 

Fair enough if you think that way.  I just think there are plenty of posters on here who don't want Howe to succeed and revel in a bad performance/result and are very vocal on here after a defeat.  As they clearly want him gone.  That is how your posts have often come across to me. 

[Lush Vlad]

18 minutes ago, KaKa said:

Things fell apart against West Ham with Willock having to go off injured.

 

Do we perhaps need a more reliable upgrade for that role he plays, then he can just be a rotation option as he does pick up a fair amount of knocks?

 

I'm actually dreading seeing the starting lineup for the Palace game. Can almost tell now from our lineup how the game is going to go. Not sure it will be one that works well, especially if Willock is out.

 

He was in the training pics.  Not even sure he is/was injured.  Looked more like a heavy impact injury and maybe just went a bit stiff at HT.  He wasn't having a good game anyway and we needed a goal.  So could have just been that.  He does bring quite a few intangibles though and we do seem a more balanced team with him in it somehow. 

 

Bruno and Isak were not in the training photos, mind..............

[Tross]

2 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

Bruno and Isak were not in the training photos, mind..............

 

Good. 

[OverThere]

2 minutes ago, Kanj said:

Could easily simplify football discussion about our fortunes this season in one very simple comment: our finishing has been poor, we’ve underperformed our xG. Take our chances and it’s a different story here. 

Wilson is a far better finisher than anyone else we have and he is both vital to the team and clearly unreliable health wise. I think we have to get Osula up and running or we have to buy someone who can finish to complement the squad. 

[54]

1 minute ago, Tross said:

 

Good. 

Good that our two best players arn't training?  

[Erikse]

4 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

 

He was in the training pics.  Not even sure he is/was injured.  Looked more like a heavy impact injury and maybe just went a bit stiff at HT.  He wasn't having a good game anyway and we needed a goal.  So could have just been that.  He does bring quite a few intangibles though and we do seem a more balanced team with him in it somehow. 

 

Bruno and Isak were not in the training photos, mind..............

 

Here comes the usual Wilson and Isak injury swapping.

[Lush Vlad]

6 minutes ago, OverThere said:

Wilson is a far better finisher than anyone else we have and he is both vital to the team and clearly unreliable health wise. I think we have to get Osula up and running or we have to buy someone who can finish to complement the squad. 

 

Far better at finishing than Isak?  I know absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that.  But fucking hell   Also.  He hasn't been vital to the team for a long while as the fucker is never fit.  Even ignoring injuries.  He couldn't play up top on his own regularly in this current version of NUFC IMO.  

 

I know Isak has missed some big chances this season and I'm not sure he is ever going to be an automatic finisher like a Haaland, Kane or Lewandowski.  But then how many players are?  Plenty of big strikers miss say 1-2 chances a game, then get another and score.  How many 'big' chances are we creating for Isak a game?  I feel like his misses are being magnified because they look glaring in isolation and they're currently costing us points.   

 

 

Edited Thursday at 12:20 by Lush Vlad

[OverThere]

Just now, Lush Vlad said:

 

Far better at finishing than Isak?  I know absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that.  But fucking hell   He hasn't been vital to the team for a long while as the fucker is never fit.  

 

I know Isak has missed some big chances this season and I'm not sure he is ever going to be an automatic finisher like a Haaland, Kane or Lewandowski.  But then how many players are?  Plenty of big strikers miss say 1-2 chances a game, then get another and score.  How many 'big' chances are we creating for Isak a game?  I feel like his misses are being magnified because of they look glaring in isolation and they're currently costing us points.   

I said the ficker is never fit but we haven't tried to replace him. Big mistake. Both Isak and Gordon are poor finishers for bread and butter chances.

[Jimburst]

I think Isak is an elite finisher personally. All faith in him finishing all but the most difficult chances. Going through a slightly wasteful patch atm but his confidence and composure in front of goal is top class. 

[Erikse]

9 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

 

Far better at finishing than Isak?  I know absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that.  But fucking hell   Also.  He hasn't been vital to the team for a long while as the fucker is never fit.  Even ignoring injuries.  He couldn't play up top on his own regularly in this current version of NUFC IMO.  

 

I know Isak has missed some big chances this season and I'm not sure he is ever going to be an automatic finisher like a Haaland, Kane or Lewandowski.  But then how many players are?  Plenty of big strikers miss say 1-2 chances a game, then get another and score.  How many 'big' chances are we creating for Isak a game?  I feel like his misses are being magnified because of they look glaring in isolation and they're currently costing us points.   

 

 

 

 

Prior to this season Isak was on par with his xG for us, which is quite good relative to other strikers. This season he has underperformed his xG quite a bit more percentage wise. Not many strikes overperform xG by a meaningful margin, though. Even Wilson has underperformed his xG for us.

 

Haaland has actually underperformed his xG by 6 goals in the last 2 seasons. A bit off topic, but I sometimes get surprised about how he misses some really big chances. He's just extremely good at being at the right place at the right time, and I think he overperforms xG when he plays in a more direct system like he did at Dortmund.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 12:28 by Erikse

[OverThere]

2 minutes ago, Jimburst said:

I think Isak is an elite finisher personally. All faith in him finishing all but the most difficult chances. Going through a slightly wasteful patch atm but his confidence and composure in front of goal is top class. 

I think he can be an elite finisher but he isn't showing that consistently at present. The question is can he be consistently, and the jury is out on that one.

[Gallowgate Toon]

Isak's finishing has been poor this season - he's pretty much only scored when it's been put on a plate for him, but he'll start converting half chances again soon.

 

Gordon's finishing has massively regressed and he's pretty much never in good positions to score scruffy goals anymore either.

[Jimburst]

Just now, OverThere said:

I think he can be an elite finisher but he isn't showing that consistently at present. The question is can he be consistently, and the jury is out on that one.

 

I think you're ignoring similar barren patches of other elite strikers if you think he isn't currently elite. Haaland is undoubtedly in the bracket of best ever strikers to grace the prem, and he's having a nightmare in the PL at the moment. Lewa, Kane etc all have had barren patches. Kane was a notoriously slow starter in terms of goals scored for multiple seasons. None of these facts make them poor finishers, it's just a fact of life. No one is perfect.