Eddie Howe

[Displayname]

5 minutes ago, Sibierski said:

Young full backs were needed. We had none, and they now mean we don’t need to spend big there for rest of decade. 
 

Our issue is more we don’t sell well. Started to do so in January so hopefully that’s the start of Mitchell ethos, but in summer 23 and winter 24, we did sell as much as we should’ve to refresh squad. 
 

Blinded by loyalty because we got to UCL, and it’s hurt us since. Because so many of the team should’ve been moved on, didn’t matter if they ‘deserved’ a chance. It’s like a newly promoted club, if the players are not good enough, they have to be moved on.

No matter how we would have ended up there, i dont disagree that the FB signings would have been perfectly fine IF we also could get a adequate squad in place.

[Jordan]

4 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

I know I was in the minority, but I thought the signings of Barnes, Tino and Hall were fine at the time.

 

I do agree though that the strategy to pay large fees for more or less sure things was never going to be sustainable given the PSR constraints.

I think Tino and Hall were as their values were only going to increase with age and Trippier and Burn were aging and Burn not actually a full back. Barnes seemed a strange one given we’d just spent £40m on Gordon the window before. Granted he hadn’t set world alight in first half a season. 

[midds]

Still think that many have forgotten what was actually bought in the takeover. It was a shell, a complete husk of a club. It had a shit manager, zero coaches of any standing, zero scouting network, no reserve team and zero coming through the youth set up. The squad had virtually zero value, no player was worth anything and there was no obvious 'sell them immediately and use the money to invest', there was nothing and no-one of any value. The entire entity had been deliberately hollowed out for the previous decade. 

 

To go from (literally) nothing to CL in 3 years should have been nothing more than a pipedream. Howe's got his faults and if people want to criticise then that's fair enough, I have in the past but he's built this squad from fucking scratch. He had zero foothold from day 1 and nothing to work with. He's far from perfect and he makes mistakes but just cast your mind back 4 years and look at what he inherited ffs

[The Prophet]

The Barnes signing seemed logical in that...

 

1. It looked as though we wanted two players for every position heading into the Champions League campaign.

2. We'd just sold ASM, leaving us with no natural left winger.

3. Gordon, billed as a "versatile forward" had struggled in his first six months here. 

4. The season before we'd struggled with finishing and often lacked a clinical edge in the box.

 

 

Edited 21 hours ago by The Prophet

[McDog]

Just now, midds said:

Still think that many have forgotten what was actually bought in the takeover. It was a shell, a complete husk of a club. It had a shit manager, zero coaches of any standing, zero scouting network, no reserve team and zero coming through the youth set up. The squad had virtually zero value, no player was worth anything and there was no obvious 'sell them immediately and use the money to invest', there was nothing and no-one of any value. The entire entity had been deliberately hollowed out for the previous decade. 

 

To go from (literally) nothing to CL in 3 years should have been nothing more than a pipedream. Howe's got his faults and if people want to criticise then that's fair enough, I have in the past but he's built this squad from fucking scratch. He had zero foothold from day 1 and nothing to work with. He's far from perfect and he makes mistakes but just cast your mind back 4 years and look at what he inherited ffs

 

 

This is true, and teams were not lining up to "help" Newcastle after the takeover. There seemed to be a great deal of hostility.

[Displayname]

3 minutes ago, midds said:

Still think that many have forgotten what was actually bought in the takeover. It was a shell, a complete husk of a club. It had a shit manager, zero coaches of any standing, zero scouting network, no reserve team and zero coming through the youth set up. The squad had virtually zero value, no player was worth anything and there was no obvious 'sell them immediately and use the money to invest', there was nothing and no-one of any value. The entire entity had been deliberately hollowed out for the previous decade. 

 

To go from (literally) nothing to CL in 3 years should have been nothing more than a pipedream. Howe's got his faults and if people want to criticise then that's fair enough, I have in the past but he's built this squad from fucking scratch. He had zero foothold from day 1 and nothing to work with. He's far from perfect and he makes mistakes but just cast your mind back 4 years and look at what he inherited ffs

But is your point that we cant criticize or that we have to end every post with "Still think Eddie is the man"?

I do think he is btw.

[midds]

1 minute ago, Displayname said:

But is your point that we cant criticize or that we have to end every post with "Still think Eddie is the man"?

I do think he is btw.

My point is that he inherited a shit show and he's had to work with lots of it whilst still being expected to deliver consistently. I've been a bit critical of him for being a bit 'samey' and not mixing things up but the club, as a whole, has had to be built from the ground up. He inherited a literal pile of rubble and he's been expected to turn it into a pyramid by some

[Displayname]

2 minutes ago, midds said:

My point is that he inherited a shit show and he's had to work with lots of it whilst still being expected to deliver consistently. I've been a bit critical of him for being a bit 'samey' and not mixing things up but the club, as a whole, has had to be built from the ground up. He inherited a literal pile of rubble and he's been expected to turn it into a pyramid by some

I am one those you are referring to who is expecting pyramids?

[midds]

2 minutes ago, Displayname said:

I am one those you are referring to who is expecting pyramids?

No idea. Literally

[Holmesy]

1 hour ago, GideonShandy said:

What is "the board" to blame for?

When I say the board, I include the previous iteration that overspent. We haven't made a major first team signing for what, 18 months? There is some serious mismanagement in there. The first transfer window when Mitchell was brought in, I think the club released a statement saying they were waiting for the new DoF to be installed before making any moves. We made no moves. None. We did absolutely fuck all, and that trend has continued.

I get that signings don't happen in 2-3 days - they take months of planning and negotiating, but it seems that no one was doing anything after Ashworth had made it clear he was leaving. No transfer committee, no one fronting the transfer effort. 
We can all play Football Manager with signings and oversimplify things, but look at some of the loans, free transfers and low ticket signings that have happened involving teams in and around us while our lot have been holding their peckers and letting Eddie battle on with the same group - Malen, Asensio, Diego Gomez, Trevor Chalobah, Joao Felix, Carney Chukwuemeka, Carlos Alcaraz, Mathys Tel, Evan Ferguson, James Ward-Prowse etc. 

From a pure footballing POV, new signings do more for the squad than they do to it - competition for places, a new face around the training ground to energise everyone, a different dimension for the opposition to suss out etc. Do our board even recognise this? Do these conversations take place behind the scenes?

 

The first team players have seen nothing different for a year and a half. The ones that play know they're starting every week, they see the same faces every day, probably do roughly the same training and hear the same voices. 

I mean, it could be Eddie not wanting loan signings but surely he’d rather have them than absolutely fuck all for 18 months?!
  

 

 

Edited 20 hours ago by Holmesy

[McDog]

Just now, Holmesy said:

When I say the board, I include the previous iteration that overspent. We haven't made a major first team signing for what, 18 months? There is some serious mismanagement in there. The first transfer window when Mitchell was brought in, I think the club released a statement saying they were waiting for the new DoF to be installed before making any moves. We made no moves. None. We did absolutely fuck all, and that trend has continued.

I get that signings don't happen in 2-3 days - they take months of planning and negotiating, but it seems that no one was doing anything after Ashworth had made it clear he was leaving. No transfer committee, no one fronting the transfer effort. 
We can all play Football Manager with signings and oversimplify things, but look at some of the loans, free transfers and low ticket signings that have happened involving teams in and around us while our lot have been holding their peckers and letting Eddie battle on with the same group - Malen, Asensio, Diego Gomez, Trevor Chalobah, Joao Felix, Carney Chukwuemeka, Carlos Alcaraz, Mathys Tel, Evan Ferguson, James Ward-Prowse etc. 

From a pure footballing POV, new signings do more for the squad than they do to it - competition for places, a new face around the training ground to energise everyone, a different dimension for the opposition to suss out etc. Do our board even recognise this? Do these conversations take place behind the scenes?

 

The first team players have seen nothing different for a year and a half. The ones that play know they're starting every week, they see the same faces every day, probably do roughly the same training and hear the same voices. 



  

 

 

They spent what was required to survive the first year. As @midds pointed out there was nothing to sell to offset this. There was Ashley's for profit legacy which gave them that headroom at first. Then they got some real talent and made the Champions League. You are correct, they did fuck all in the last windows as they really couldn't. There may have been some mistakes in not selling in the last year but there wasn't anything high end to sell, right?

Let's see what happens this summer when there is some money to spend as it appears there will be. I also like the fact that Mitchell is buying young talent that just might translate into something to sell in the near future.

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, McDog said:

 

 

They spent what was required to survive the first year. As @midds pointed out there was nothing to sell to offset this. There was Ashley's for profit legacy which gave them that headroom at first. Then they got some real talent and made the Champions League. You are correct, they did fuck all in the last windows as they really couldn't. There may have been some mistakes in not selling in the last year but there wasn't anything high end to sell, right?

Let's see what happens this summer when there is some money to spend as it appears there will be. I also like the fact that Mitchell is buying young talent that just might translate into something to sell in the near future.

The issue wasn’t not selling in 21/22, though - the issue is not selling subsequently.  The squad Howe inherited included Wilson, Joelinton, Willock, ASM, Almiron - all of them could’ve been sold for a tidy sum in 2023 (thanks in no small part to Howe’s coaching).  We didn’t sell at their peak value. 

[Displayname]

Just now, midds said:

No idea. Literally

Sorry for being annoying, but im just tired of strawmans like that. None of us in this recent discussion have indicated that Eddie has done a bad job overall.

[McDog]

Just now, TheBrownBottle said:

The issue wasn’t not selling in 21/22, though - the issue is not selling subsequently.  The squad Howe inherited included Wilson, Joelinton, Willock, ASM, Almiron - all of them could’ve been sold for a tidy sum in 2023 (thanks in no small part to Howe’s coaching).  We didn’t sell at their peak value. 

 

 

Were those guys at "Peak" value? Sure it would have helped for sure but how much of a tidy sum? I do agree Howe increased their value but they would need to be replaced. 

[Holmesy]

5 minutes ago, McDog said:

 

 

They spent what was required to survive the first year. As @midds pointed out there was nothing to sell to offset this. There was Ashley's for profit legacy which gave them that headroom at first. Then they got some real talent and made the Champions League. You are correct, they did fuck all in the last windows as they really couldn't. There may have been some mistakes in not selling in the last year but there wasn't anything high end to sell, right?

Let's see what happens this summer when there is some money to spend as it appears there will be. I also like the fact that Mitchell is buying young talent that just might translate into something to sell in the near future.

The mystery that seems to remain is how could we bid £60m odd for the lad from Palace? 
I’m not going to pretend to understand PSR but how can we bid that much for a player and then just sit on our hands for the remainder of that window and the one just gone?

[McDog]

Just now, Holmesy said:

The mystery that seems to remain is how could we bid £60m odd for the lad from Palace? 
I’m not going to pretend to understand PSR but how can we bid that much for a player and then just sit on our hands for the remainder of that window and the one just gone?

 

100% a head scratcher if that actually happened and how they planned to pay for it.

 

 

edit: I'm pretty sure they did bid but how much?

 

 

Edited 20 hours ago by McDog

[TheBrownBottle]

2 hours ago, McDog said:

 

 

Were those guys at "Peak" value? Sure it would have helped for sure but how much of a tidy sum? I do agree Howe increased their value but they would need to be replaced. 

You wouldn’t get the same for any of them today what you would have got then.

 

And with the weird way FFP works, it would’ve been possible to buy more expensive players than the value of those sold. 

[McDog]

Just now, TheBrownBottle said:

You wouldn’t get the same for any of them today what you would have got then.

 

And with the weird way FFP works, it would’ve been possible to buy more expensive players than the value of those sold. 

 

 

I can't argue that. Still a bit of hindsight involved.

[TheBrownBottle]

2 minutes ago, McDog said:

 

 

I can't argue that. Still a bit of hindsight involved.

Sure, though it’s only hindsight if a party isn’t aware of the rules or our finances - and the club would (should) have known that better than anyone.  Some of us did express these concerns at the time. 

[TheBrownBottle]

The downside of it all is that Howe clearly has an excellent eye for a player, and is a first class coach.  His lack of ruthlessness could be an issue  

[McDog]

4 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Sure, though it’s only hindsight if a party isn’t aware of the rules or our finances - and the club would (should) have known that better than anyone.  Some of us did express these concerns at the time. 

 

 

I get it for sure. I think it's a tad more complicated in the sense they have a list ( I hope ) of who could replace each one, what they would cost and would they be better or worse.

That's why I can't say they completely screwed it up.

[mighty__mag]

Might be a bit of a conspiracy theory, but were all the players not miles more up for it, more happy mentally, and giving everything on the pitch when Amanda was at the top.

 

She literally was close with all of them, and the place just seemed like a better environment for all, Eddie and the squad.

 

Seems since she stood down, the feel good factor throughout is not the same, on or off the pitch.

 

 

[wyn davies]

2 hours ago, mighty__mag said:

Might be a bit of a conspiracy theory, but were all the players not miles more up for it, more happy mentally, and giving everything on the pitch when Amanda was at the top.

 

She literally was close with all of them, and the place just seemed like a better environment for all, Eddie and the squad.

 

Seems since she stood down, the feel good factor throughout is not the same, on or off the pitch.

 

 

I think your dead right, further we should of sold those coming to the end of their careers at Newcastle whilst they still had value, Howe if it's correct with what's been said over the last year was too influential in keeping players, then clearly the guy has no business sense or and isn't strong enough to move them on, football is a ruthless game and Howe doesn't have it and if he can't handle that then time to move on, just like happens to anyone, we move on.

[GideonShandy]

Not sure there's much actual evidence for the propositions  (1) that other clubs were eager to pay significant (or any) money for our ageing and second-string players or (2) that any of those players were willing to move or (3) that Eddie Howe, despite his extraordinary history of successful management, "has no business sense" or "isn't strong enough" to handle the ruthless aspects of the game.

[Weezertron]

8 hours ago, joeyt said:

 

Howe isn't to blame for that

I blamed Amanda if I blamed anyone