Lush Vlad Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 1 minute ago, Paullow said: Just looking on another forum (boxing one) and the thread was expectations for the start of next season, and this was mine on June 29th, which you can barely read: Should know far more by the end of the window, but something like 5th or 6th, stay in some form of European football beyond the CL group stages, and a reasonable run in one of the domestic cups would be a decent follow up season, especially if it was 5th and that got a bonus CL spot this year. In terms of pre season odds Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, and Man Utd were all expected to finish above us, and we were kind of in and around the Chelsea odds, some shorter some longer to win the league, top 6, top 4 etc. then Spurs. So 5th to 7th would be par and if we were to finish 7th, and be 'best of the rest', I think most would have been fine with that, not delighted, and it would have been nice to to finish above one of those, but no complaints if those teams squads, budgets etc. lack of Europe in some cases, proved too much, but I don't even see us finishing 7th this season as we are just not consistent enough. Based on your last two posts in here. You’re obsessed with odds from months ago and not looking at any genuine reasons or mitigating factors. Odds change all the while depending on results, circumstances and variables. Why would you quote out of date odds when you have a load of evidence to suggest things have changed since? Disingenuous? Or you just don’t understand how odds and betting works. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 I can’t see what the criticism would be of Howe based on tonight. He played his strongest team, adapted tactics to suit both opposition and the hand he has to play, made aggressive subs, and I thought we did ok all things considered. The last four months haven’t exactly been great, but the manager can’t be criticised for the Man City game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paullow Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Just now, Lush Vlad said: Based on your last two posts in here. You’re obsessed with odds from months ago and not looking at any genuine reasons or mitigating factors. Odds change all the while depending on results, circumstances and variables. Why would you quote out of date odds when you have a load of evidence to suggest things have changed since? Disingenuous? Or you just don’t understand how odds and betting works. Because the question of the discussion was literally would you take that at the start of the season, and no I wouldn't, because pretty much everything that we've achieved is below par from what was expected at the start of the season. Yes, there's been circumstances, and unfortunate issues, but to be 2 points clear of Fulham in 12th at this stage of the season is pretty poor. 12 defeats in 28 is very poor, it just hasn't been a good season at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 (edited) 6 minutes ago, nufc123 said: Whats wrong now in this thread? Plenty saying how they expected 6th or 7th as a bare minimum. But have seemingly decided to ignore genuine reasons and circumstances for why we are where we are and how that ‘might’ now be beyond us. Despite the fact we have 10 games to go. Their minds are made up. Reactionary nonsense about Howe, tactics, certain players being unfairly scapegoated (I’m guilty of this as wel, TBF). No patience whatsoever after our best season for 20 odd years. Thinly veiled digs about wanting Howe gone. It’s obvious reading posts who wants someone else in in his place. I’m not 100% happy with everything Howe has done. But even Klopp and Guardiola get things wrong and cop flak from fans. Nobody’s perfect. We have become a bunch of expectant, entitled wankers, it seems. Edited March 16 by Lush Vlad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 9 minutes ago, Paullow said: Fuckin hell Truth hurts for people like you, obviously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 1 minute ago, Paullow said: Because the question of the discussion was literally would you take that at the start of the season, and no I wouldn't, because pretty much everything that we've achieved is below par from what was expected at the start of the season. Yes, there's been circumstances, and unfortunate issues, but to be 2 points clear of Fulham in 12th at this stage of the season is pretty poor. 12 defeats in 28 is very poor, it just hasn't been a good season at all. You don't get mitigating factors ? I wasn't expecting the worst set of long term injuries etc since I've been going (1974), if I'd known that I'd have altered my expectations. As it is you predict a kind of average, you know everyone won't be 100% fit every game, some will miss few, you may get one or two long termers but this season has been mad for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc123 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Just now, Lush Vlad said: Plenty saying how they expected 6th or 7th as a bare minimum. But have seemingly decided to ignore genuine reasons and circumstances for why we are where we are and how that ‘might’ now be beyond us. Despite the fact we have 10 games to go. There mind is made up. Reactionary nonsense about Howe, tactics, certain players being unfairly scapegoated (I’m guilty of this as wel, TBF). No patience whatsoever after our best season for 20 odd years. Thinly veiled digs about wanting Howe gone. It’s obvious reading posts who wants someone else in in his place. I’m not 100% happy with everything Howe has done. But even Klopp and Guardiola get things wrong and cop flak from fans. Nobody’s perfect. We have become a bunch of expectant, entitled wankers, it seems. Only been on the last five pages or so (dont know about the pages before that), and its really not that bad. People talking about 7th-10th being okey or not. People pointing out questions for the rest of the season. No reason for that outburst at all. Its like walking on needles in here sometimes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Displayname Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 You guys seriously dont understand the difference between "Would you have taken x at the start of the season?" and "Has Howe done an ok job considering the circumstances?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 3 minutes ago, nufc123 said: Only been on the last five pages or so (dont know about the pages before that), and its really not that bad. People talking about 7th-10th being okey or not. People pointing out questions for the rest of the season. No reason for that outburst at all. Its like walking on needles in here sometimes. Drawing pins or lego surely ? Needles would lie flat so wouldn't really hurt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbheed Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Keegans Export said: Right. But "7th" and "not 7th" are not the same thing though are they? Regardless of how close you are, if your position was "I'd be happy with 7th" and what's on offer is "not finishing 7th" then its fair to say you aren't happy with how things have gone? What's on offer is not "not finishing 7th" it's objectively speaking being '3 points off 7th with 10 games to go'. (Plus 2 QF's) Put another way, if you were told at the beginning of the season that after 28 games you'd be 3 points off 7th, then would you put significant money on us finishing 7th from that position? Will leave it here though as I think we'll probably be going round in circles for a good while. Don't want to derail the thread. Edited March 16 by Thumbheed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 1 minute ago, nufc123 said: Only been on the last five pages or so (dont know about the pages before that), and its really not that bad. People talking about 7th-10th being okey or not. People pointing out questions for the rest of the season. No reason for that outburst at all. Its like walking on needles in here sometimes. Depends on your outlook. I understand and appreciate this season hasn’t gone to plan. So there will be negativity. I was raging after Chelsea and felt that was one of the worst so called performances of the season. I understand the frustrations. But more and more on here. There are posters that seem so dismissive of Howe, the players, all of the factors and circumstances involved. It’s depressing as fuck across most NUFC related threads. Rightly or wrongly. I feel like plenty of fans on here, at the match, on social media and beyond. Have become impatient. After years of dross. A rebuild that takes more than 2-2.5 seasons is unacceptable and we need a change. That’s how it reads to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 1 minute ago, Thumbheed said: What's on offer is not "not finishing 7th" it's objectively speaking being '3 points off 7th with 10 games to go'. (Plus 2 QF's) Put another way, if you were told at the beginning of the season that after 28 games you'd be 3 points off 7th, then would you put significant money on us finishing 7th from that position? Depends on the odds and that would depend on what other bets the bookie has taken, NOT what he thinks the likelihood is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paullow Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 1 minute ago, madras said: You don't get mitigating factors ? I wasn't expecting the worst set of long term injuries etc since I've been going (1974), if I'd known that I'd have altered my expectations. As it is you predict a kind of average, you know everyone won't be 100% fit every game, some will miss few, you may get one or two long termers but this season has been mad for it. Of course I get the struggles, but again, I was originally responding to that Thumbhead's post about why wouldn't anyone accept the following criteria at the start of the season, which is obviously before the injury nightmare, tough draws, fixture congesting etc. became apparent, suggesting what we have done and where we currently are now would have been acceptable before a ball was kicked, and like many, I disagreed, and still do. That was my original point. Taking everything into account, I'd have still liked a few extra points on the board, especially against the likes of Luton x 2, Bournemouth, Forest etc. where we would have still had enough quality, despite the set backs, to have picked up more points than we have, and be sitting in a healthier position. To go from having the joint best defense in the league last season to suddenly having only 6 teams concede more in the whole league, is frustrating, and some of the goals we have conceded have been pathetic, and in many cases we need 3, 4, 5 goals to get any kind of result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegans Export Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 3 minutes ago, Thumbheed said: What's on offer is not "not finishing 7th" it's objectively speaking being '3 points off 7th with 10 games to go'. (Plus 2 QF's) Put another way, if you were told at the beginning of the season that after 28 games you'd be 3 points off 7th, then would you put significant money on us finishing 7th from that position? No I wouldn't. We are three points off but there are also three teams we need to overtake. Before the season I'd have 7th as the lower end of what I'd be happy with, I'm not going to be happy at having to play catch-up on that target with 10 games to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 1 minute ago, Paullow said: Of course I get the struggles, but again, I was originally responding to that Thumbhead's post about why wouldn't anyone accept the following criteria at the start of the season, which is obviously before the injury nightmare, tough draws, fixture congesting etc. became apparent, suggesting what we have done and where we currently are now would have been acceptable before a ball was kicked, and like many, I disagreed, and still do. That was my original point. Taking everything into account, I'd have still liked a few extra points on the board, especially against the likes of Luton x 2, Bournemouth, Forest etc. where we would have still had enough quality, despite the set backs, to have picked up more points than we have, and be sitting in a healthier position. To go from having the joint best defense in the league last season to suddenly having only 6 teams concede more in the whole league, is frustrating, and some of the goals we have conceded have been pathetic, and in many cases we need 3, 4, 5 goals to get any kind of result. A lot of the reason for that was last season we made the 2nd most amount of subs and most were in the forward 6 positions. This season we can't and that impacts on both sides of our play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDog Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Just now, Keegans Export said: No I wouldn't. We are three points off but there are also three teams we need to overtake. Before the season I'd have 7th as the lower end of what I'd be happy with, I'm not going to be happy at having to play catch-up on that target with 10 games to go. I can't imagine anyone is happy. It kind of feels like the equivalent of a ship taking a torpedo to the side. They were bailing and just keeping above water. That giant Sandro kick in the nuts kind of set the tone for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Displayname Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 13 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said: Plenty saying how they expected 6th or 7th as a bare minimum. But have seemingly decided to ignore genuine reasons and circumstances for why we are where we are and how that ‘might’ now be beyond us. Despite the fact we have 10 games to go. Their minds are made up. Reactionary nonsense about Howe, tactics, certain players being unfairly scapegoated (I’m guilty of this as wel, TBF). No patience whatsoever after our best season for 20 odd years. Thinly veiled digs about wanting Howe gone. It’s obvious reading posts who wants someone else in in his place. I’m not 100% happy with everything Howe has done. But even Klopp and Guardiola get things wrong and cop flak from fans. Nobody’s perfect. We have become a bunch of expectant, entitled wankers, it seems. Not a single person have said that they expected 6-7 as a bare minimum. No one is ignoring the circumstances, we are replying to what we would have taken before the season started. A few posts are negative about a player or tactics after a loss, not a big deal. Nearly everyone here is willing to be patient and let him stay over the summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufc123 Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 1 minute ago, Lush Vlad said: Depends on your outlook. I understand and appreciate this season hasn’t gone to plan. So there will be negativity. I was raging after Chelsea and felt that was one of the worst so called performances of the season. I understand the frustrations. But more and more on here. There are posters that seem so dismissive of Howe, the players, all of the factors and circumstances involved. It’s depressing as fuck across most NUFC related threads. Rightly or wrongly. I feel like plenty of fans on here, at the match, on social media and beyond. Have become impatient. After years of dross. A rebuild that takes more than 2-2.5 seasons is unacceptable and we need a change. That’s how it reads to me. You are sound. Just as people are sick of reading over and over the same issues with Howe and the debate back and fourth, its tiresome reading...if you dont like Howe or have forgot how it was under Ashley go and support another club. Or if you dont like Howe you are a cunt. Its one word in here sometimes and the FBI almost are running down the house. We are 10th and out of everything. I dont think the City game has anything to do with people going into this thread after the game. Some are probably shit posts, but other than that fair questions are being raised in here. 10th or even worse below is a disappointing season no matter what, and its not the fans who have sent out those vibes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 31 minutes ago, Stifler said: We are not at the stage yet where losing a game against Man City away in the FA Cup quarter final is grounds to sack him. Right now we are in the final stages of the season with a chance of a European place, maybe an outside chance, but still a chance. If they are being honest with themselves, the owners will know that this is about where they thought we would be 2 full seasons into their ownership. Considering last season, we are all massively frustrated this season. I do have my reservations about him being naive and willing to risk losing a game heavily in attempts to win one, as well as the selection of some players when others are available. However right now, he is doing what he’s required to do, he’s on track, or not far off it with allowances to be given to him. They definitely don’t think we should be 10th. today is whatever. Relieved we didn’t get thumped 3+. Massive 10 games ahead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbheed Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 5 minutes ago, Keegans Export said: No I wouldn't. We are three points off but there are also three teams we need to overtake. Before the season I'd have 7th as the lower end of what I'd be happy with, I'm not going to be happy at having to play catch-up on that target with 10 games to go. You'd have taken 7th and nothing less. So the difference between the season being a relative success is (objectively speaking) 1 more win and 1 less loss, and furthermore you would not be happy being lower than that position at any point of the season, irrespective of whether we still have over 25% of the season still left to play. I know I said I'd end it with my previous post but I think I definitely will now seeing as though that's your actual position 👍 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Actually glad he tried some new things in the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Yes beating Luton and drawing Forest would change the complexion of the season a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegans Export Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 1 minute ago, Thumbheed said: You'd have taken 7th and nothing less. So the difference between the season being a relative success is (objectively speaking) 1 more win and 1 less loss, and furthermore you would not be happy being lower than that position at any point of the season, irrespective of whether we still have over 25% of the season still left to play. I know I said I'd end it with my previous post but I think I definitely will now seeing as though that's your actual position 👍 Yes, 7th is the bottom end of what I would have considered a successful season and therefore would be happy with. Being lower than that at some point in the season is one thing, but being a number of places lower than that is not something that I am happy with, no. Chelsea win their game in hand and we are 11th. A long way back from 7th. I'm not entirely sure what's so outrageous about that position but clearly it's bothering you so no problem if you'd rather leave it there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaj Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 No issues with Howe at all tonight, Man City are unbelievable and losing felt pretty inevitable. Without the bad luck for the goals, who knows what could have happened. Season far from over, 8th has a decent shout of being Europe and we have a decent run in on paper. Let’s go again in a few weeks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 ‘You wouldn’t have been happy with 10th?’ Is the best hot take on here in years. Man is defending it to the ends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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