Eddie Howe

[Erikse]

Just now, Kanj said:

second goal killed us off like. Willock going off for Tonali and I’d venture to say we crawl back into the game and get a point at least. 

 

We need to stop making it difficult for ourselves in the first half. I'm tired of watching us chase a comeback in most games.

[Kanj]

1 minute ago, Erikse said:

 

We need to stop making it difficult for ourselves in the first half. I'm tired of watching us chase a comeback in most games.

Ya isak on 4 goals in the league? Gordon with what 1-2? That’s a problem!

[OverThere]

1 minute ago, Kanj said:

Ya isak on 4 goals in the league? Gordon with what 1-2? That’s a problem!

Agree and they miss some sitters unfortunately. There were 2 against WH that you would expect a bang average player to score.

[Kanj]

Could easily simplify football discussion about our fortunes this season in one very simple comment: our finishing has been poor, we’ve underperformed our xG. Take our chances and it’s a different story here. 

[Lush Vlad]

7 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Chill out big guy, we're all just having a conversation. I don't think i've moved my goalposts at all but fair enough.
I've been open since last season about my Eddie Howe doubts, but last time I checked there weren't any laws against that. We're not clones. We all have our own opinions on these things. And if we can't discuss them here without someone getting their knickers in a twist, what's the fucking point in a forum?!

I want him to succeed here, I really do. I just don't think he's good enough to match the club's ambitions. If i'm proved wrong, I would be delighted to come on here and eat humble pie.

 

Perhaps a bit strong, sorry   But you clearly did move the goalposts.  No plan B, then you say we just switched players and no formation change against West Ham, which doesn't constitute a plan B.  When that just quite clearly isn't true if you watched the game for more than 5 minutes second half.  Then it's not about formation change, but something else like how we press.  Which might also fall under your categorisation of tweaks to the original formation.  Which is still just plan A based on what you've posted further back.

 

Fair enough if you think that way.  I just think there are plenty of posters on here who don't want Howe to succeed and revel in a bad performance/result and are very vocal on here after a defeat.  As they clearly want him gone.  That is how your posts have often come across to me. 

[Lush Vlad]

18 minutes ago, KaKa said:

Things fell apart against West Ham with Willock having to go off injured.

 

Do we perhaps need a more reliable upgrade for that role he plays, then he can just be a rotation option as he does pick up a fair amount of knocks?

 

I'm actually dreading seeing the starting lineup for the Palace game. Can almost tell now from our lineup how the game is going to go. Not sure it will be one that works well, especially if Willock is out.

 

He was in the training pics.  Not even sure he is/was injured.  Looked more like a heavy impact injury and maybe just went a bit stiff at HT.  He wasn't having a good game anyway and we needed a goal.  So could have just been that.  He does bring quite a few intangibles though and we do seem a more balanced team with him in it somehow. 

 

Bruno and Isak were not in the training photos, mind..............

[Tross]

2 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

Bruno and Isak were not in the training photos, mind..............

 

Good. 

[OverThere]

2 minutes ago, Kanj said:

Could easily simplify football discussion about our fortunes this season in one very simple comment: our finishing has been poor, we’ve underperformed our xG. Take our chances and it’s a different story here. 

Wilson is a far better finisher than anyone else we have and he is both vital to the team and clearly unreliable health wise. I think we have to get Osula up and running or we have to buy someone who can finish to complement the squad. 

[54]

1 minute ago, Tross said:

 

Good. 

Good that our two best players arn't training?  

[Erikse]

4 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

 

He was in the training pics.  Not even sure he is/was injured.  Looked more like a heavy impact injury and maybe just went a bit stiff at HT.  He wasn't having a good game anyway and we needed a goal.  So could have just been that.  He does bring quite a few intangibles though and we do seem a more balanced team with him in it somehow. 

 

Bruno and Isak were not in the training photos, mind..............

 

Here comes the usual Wilson and Isak injury swapping.

[Lush Vlad]

6 minutes ago, OverThere said:

Wilson is a far better finisher than anyone else we have and he is both vital to the team and clearly unreliable health wise. I think we have to get Osula up and running or we have to buy someone who can finish to complement the squad. 

 

Far better at finishing than Isak?  I know absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that.  But fucking hell   Also.  He hasn't been vital to the team for a long while as the fucker is never fit.  Even ignoring injuries.  He couldn't play up top on his own regularly in this current version of NUFC IMO.  

 

I know Isak has missed some big chances this season and I'm not sure he is ever going to be an automatic finisher like a Haaland, Kane or Lewandowski.  But then how many players are?  Plenty of big strikers miss say 1-2 chances a game, then get another and score.  How many 'big' chances are we creating for Isak a game?  I feel like his misses are being magnified because they look glaring in isolation and they're currently costing us points.   

 

 

Edited November 28, 2024 by Lush Vlad

[OverThere]

Just now, Lush Vlad said:

 

Far better at finishing than Isak?  I know absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that.  But fucking hell   He hasn't been vital to the team for a long while as the fucker is never fit.  

 

I know Isak has missed some big chances this season and I'm not sure he is ever going to be an automatic finisher like a Haaland, Kane or Lewandowski.  But then how many players are?  Plenty of big strikers miss say 1-2 chances a game, then get another and score.  How many 'big' chances are we creating for Isak a game?  I feel like his misses are being magnified because of they look glaring in isolation and they're currently costing us points.   

I said the ficker is never fit but we haven't tried to replace him. Big mistake. Both Isak and Gordon are poor finishers for bread and butter chances.

[Jimburst]

I think Isak is an elite finisher personally. All faith in him finishing all but the most difficult chances. Going through a slightly wasteful patch atm but his confidence and composure in front of goal is top class. 

[Erikse]

9 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

 

Far better at finishing than Isak?  I know absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that.  But fucking hell   Also.  He hasn't been vital to the team for a long while as the fucker is never fit.  Even ignoring injuries.  He couldn't play up top on his own regularly in this current version of NUFC IMO.  

 

I know Isak has missed some big chances this season and I'm not sure he is ever going to be an automatic finisher like a Haaland, Kane or Lewandowski.  But then how many players are?  Plenty of big strikers miss say 1-2 chances a game, then get another and score.  How many 'big' chances are we creating for Isak a game?  I feel like his misses are being magnified because of they look glaring in isolation and they're currently costing us points.   

 

 

 

 

Prior to this season Isak was on par with his xG for us, which is quite good relative to other strikers. This season he has underperformed his xG quite a bit more percentage wise. Not many strikes overperform xG by a meaningful margin, though. Even Wilson has underperformed his xG for us.

 

Haaland has actually underperformed his xG by 6 goals in the last 2 seasons. A bit off topic, but I sometimes get surprised about how he misses some really big chances. He's just extremely good at being at the right place at the right time, and I think he overperforms xG when he plays in a more direct system like he did at Dortmund.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2024 by Erikse

[OverThere]

2 minutes ago, Jimburst said:

I think Isak is an elite finisher personally. All faith in him finishing all but the most difficult chances. Going through a slightly wasteful patch atm but his confidence and composure in front of goal is top class. 

I think he can be an elite finisher but he isn't showing that consistently at present. The question is can he be consistently, and the jury is out on that one.

[Gallowgate Toon]

Isak's finishing has been poor this season - he's pretty much only scored when it's been put on a plate for him, but he'll start converting half chances again soon.

 

Gordon's finishing has massively regressed and he's pretty much never in good positions to score scruffy goals anymore either.

[Jimburst]

Just now, OverThere said:

I think he can be an elite finisher but he isn't showing that consistently at present. The question is can he be consistently, and the jury is out on that one.

 

I think you're ignoring similar barren patches of other elite strikers if you think he isn't currently elite. Haaland is undoubtedly in the bracket of best ever strikers to grace the prem, and he's having a nightmare in the PL at the moment. Lewa, Kane etc all have had barren patches. Kane was a notoriously slow starter in terms of goals scored for multiple seasons. None of these facts make them poor finishers, it's just a fact of life. No one is perfect.

[OverThere]

1 minute ago, Jimburst said:

 

I think you're ignoring similar barren patches of other elite strikers if you think he isn't currently elite. Haaland is undoubtedly in the bracket of best ever strikers to grace the prem, and he's having a nightmare in the PL at the moment. Lewa, Kane etc all have had barren patches. Kane was a notoriously slow starter in terms of goals scored for multiple seasons. None of these facts make them poor finishers, it's just a fact of life. No one is perfect.

His finishing is not currently elite on a consistent enough basis. Period.

[Holmesy]

33 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

 

Perhaps a bit strong, sorry   But you clearly did move the goalposts.  No plan B, then you say we just switched players and no formation change against West Ham, which doesn't constitute a plan B.  When that just quite clearly isn't true if you watched the game for more than 5 minutes second half.  Then it's not about formation change, but something else like how we press.  Which might also fall under your categorisation of tweaks to the original formation.  Which is still just plan A based on what you've posted further back.

 

Fair enough if you think that way.  I just think there are plenty of posters on here who don't want Howe to succeed and revel in a bad performance/result and are very vocal on here after a defeat.  As they clearly want him gone.  That is how your posts have often come across to me. 

We all benefit if he succeeds and when we've had to ensure the likes of Pardew, Kinnear and Bruce, it would amazing to see a true gent like him etched in our history but I just don't see progress, and that concerns me. I love the idea of us having a discernible style that other teams have to combat, but when we're armed with the same players as last season and largely the season before, unless we evolve we become less effective.

Pep is the blueprint for managerial success, right?! He retains his footballing philosophies but he continues to evolve his playing style, tactics, setup, in-game management etc. Man City have/had played more long balls from the back than any other team earlier this season. Looking back at his vintage Barca side, the two teams are chalk and cheese but still retain than Pep DNA of moving the ball quickly, crazy movement, taking the ball in tight spaces etc.

Obviously we can't all have a Pep, but the points remains - standing still in the PL is going backwards, and I just don't see that anything has changed/evolved/been adapted.

 

Admittedly that is a little sideways step from my original post but it's all loosely around the same point. We play largely the same formation and the same style against everyone but with players they're now used to playing. We have one dimension and when it's negated, we look very ordinary and we don't seem to have a way to change it up.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2024 by Holmesy

[Jimburst]

1 minute ago, OverThere said:

His finishing is not currently elite on a consistent enough basis. Period.

If you want to repeat yourself, feel free. I can't really argue against it.

 

I think Isak plays in a far worse team than any of the other strikers mentioned as Elite in this argument, and I'd argue he'd put up exceptional numbers if he played for a top class team. I guess that's opinions, but I think it's definitely a factor.

[Erikse]

44 minutes ago, Jimburst said:

 

I think you're ignoring similar barren patches of other elite strikers if you think he isn't currently elite. Haaland is undoubtedly in the bracket of best ever strikers to grace the prem, and he's having a nightmare in the PL at the moment. Lewa, Kane etc all have had barren patches. Kane was a notoriously slow starter in terms of goals scored for multiple seasons. None of these facts make them poor finishers, it's just a fact of life. No one is perfect.

 

Isak is a streaky player, and as you say, several of the best strikers are. Those types of players that can win you a game on their own when they are in form. Haaland has had atleast 3 of these bad patches in the 2 and a half seasons he's been here. But when he's in form, he's breaking records.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2024 by Erikse

[Lush Vlad]

13 minutes ago, OverThere said:

I said the ficker is never fit but we haven't tried to replace him. Big mistake. Both Isak and Gordon are poor finishers for bread and butter chances.

 

I was more disagreeing with you saying he's a far better finisher than anyone we have and vital to the team.  I disagree with both points.  

 

Agree on Gordon.  He never has been a good finisher.  A lot of blocked shots and safe finishes where he just wants to hit the target.  Not having that about Isak, mind.  Even if he is going through a bit of a lean patch for us, with some big misses fresh in the memory.  He is an elite level striker. 

[Sempiternal]

Isak a poor finisher?! That can not be a real statement . Just the 21 goals in 31 last season. Absolutely absurd thing to say 

[Sempiternal]

23 minutes ago, Jimburst said:

If you want to repeat yourself, feel free. I can't really argue against it.

 

I think Isak plays in a far worse team than any of the other strikers mentioned as Elite in this argument, and I'd argue he'd put up exceptional numbers if he played for a top class team. I guess that's opinions, but I think it's definitely a factor.

It’s wild you’ve even had to say this lol. He put up exceptional numbers for us. He’d go crazy for a better team. There isn’t anyone I’d swap him for 

[Shearergol]

14 minutes ago, Sempiternal said:

Isak a poor finisher?! That can not be a real statement . Just the 21 goals in 31 last season. Absolutely absurd thing to say 

 

Yeah but until he scores 4 every single game, from 2 chances, he'll never be elite. Init.