Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: You're just motte and bailey-ing now You said shaming him, now it's pulling him up on it/telling him off. If that's what you meant why not just say that. Did you just read first year philosophy yesterday or something? Fucking hell, pulling him up is shaming him on what he’s done? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Shouting at him at half time about it would be shaming him like. Or any comment in front of the other lads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Sempiternal said: Did you just read first year philosophy yesterday or something? Fucking hell, pulling him up is shaming him on what he’s done? Yes, I'm a professional, unlike you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobloblaw Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: You're just motte and bailey-ing now You said shaming him, now it's pulling him up on it/telling him off. If that's what you meant why not just say that. They'll watch the film as a whole team or in a position group, and his mistake will be called out in front of others. I guess if you want to call that shaming or not, that's a semantics argument. That's just how I took @Sempiternal comment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Vinny Green Balls said: It means a lot actually. You're just now apparently trying to change the goalposts instead of saying that you maybe could have worded it better. It doesn’t really, at all. It’s pure pendency. Eddie will have a stern word with him. If he feels ashamed of not putting in the effort, maybe that’s just a bonus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, bobloblaw said: They'll watch the film as a whole team or in a position group, and his mistake will be called out in front of others. I guess if you want to call that shaming or not, that's a semantics argument. That's just how I took @Sempiternal comment. It just appeared to be more of a reactionary comment at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, Sempiternal said: It doesn’t really, at all. It’s pure pendency. Eddie will have a stern word with him. If he feels ashamed of not putting in the effort, maybe that’s just a bonus I would have chosen pedantry instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 minute ago, bobloblaw said: They'll watch the film as a whole team or in a position group, and his mistake will be called out in front of others. I guess if you want to call that shaming or not, that's a semantics argument. That's just how I took @Sempiternal comment. Exactly. Which is totally fine, I’d call it shaming but other people maybe not. Accountability, whatever you want to call it, the end result is the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 (edited) And then an unbelievably arrogant one about working in the game. Who fucking cares, there are some absolute knackers working in the game. Don't be one yourself. Edited September 3, 2023 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, Vinny Green Balls said: I would have chosen pedantry instead. Yeah that’s a bad one, not gonna lie. Pendency definitely isn’t the word I was looking for Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, Sempiternal said: Yeah that’s a bad one, not gonna lie. Pendency definitely isn’t the word I was looking for no worries. I was trying to be pedantic and lighten the mood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, Kid Icarus said: And then an unbelievably arrogant one about working in the game. Who fucking cares, there are some absolute knackers working in the game. Absolutely malding. Plus ad hominem. Maybe you’ve had a few beers idk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Tonali should do better. Howe will have a word. In front of the team or solo. I’m well aware of that. He could be angry when he delivers that to Sandro. No Im not inferring Sandro is some middle minded child who needs to be held but his closing down was hardly the root of the goal and nor does any adult need to be SHAMED. It’s about teaching, it’s about tailoring the fucking message man. Jesus I can’t even believe we’re having this convo. He’ll learn from today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Kanji said: Tonali should do better. Howe will have a word. In front of the team or solo. I’m well aware of that. He could be angry when he delivers that to Sandro. No Im not inferring Sandro is some middle minded child who needs to be held but his closing down was hardly the root of the goal and nor does any adult need to be SHAMED. It’s about teaching, it’s about tailoring the fucking message man. Jesus I can’t even believe we’re having this convo. He’ll learn from today. I don’t think football managers always rely on teaching and tailoring the message tbf. Sometimes it is just about a cold hard bollocking - a calling out or a shaming. It isn’t the same working environment as what the rest of us face on a daily basis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 I disagree about the goal, I thought he had a big part in it. Some players react well to harsh treatment. Mou does it all the time and some players properly love him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Sempiternal said: Absolutely malding. Plus ad hominem. Maybe you’ve had a few beers idk Nah, just thought your whole I work in football schtick was really self important. Especially as it had nothing to do with what was being said. Edited September 3, 2023 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Sempiternal said: I disagree about the goal, I thought he had a big part in it. Some players react well to harsh treatment. Mou does it all the time and some players properly love him. Klopp does it all the time too. I mean it’s fairly standard. Unless the manager thinks you’re the type to crumble after criticism. You make a mistake that costs a goal - especially a mistake caused by a lack of effort and application. The manager will dig you out at the earliest convenience and you would deserve it. It was spineless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: I don’t think football managers always rely on teaching and tailoring the message tbf. Sometimes it is just about a cold hard bollocking - a calling out or a shaming. It isn’t the same working environment as what the rest of us face on a daily basis. Pretty much yeah, I’m not saying he should be ostracized but sometimes you have to make an example to set standards. I can’t think of a single team sport where that doesn’t happen. Tuchel did it in Bayern training not even long ago. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12307419/amp/Thomas-Tuchel-singles-THREE-Bayern-Munich-stars-criticism-fail-hit-high-standards-pre-season-training.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Was it spineless or a brain fart? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 minute ago, The College Dropout said: Klopp does it all the time too. I mean it’s fairly standard. Unless the manager thinks you’re the type to crumble after criticism. You make a mistake that costs a goal - especially a mistake caused by a lack of effort and application. The manager will dig you out at the earliest convenience and you would deserve it. It was spineless. 100 percent, I didn’t even think it was a particularly controversial thing to say. I think Tonali deserves it for that, it’s not a mistake that he mis controlled a pass, or a poor giveaway, it was a clear lack of effort, and desire. It will have pissed Eddie off no doubt, and rightly so. That’s just how you keep standards highs. I really like Tonali but today was absolutely horrible in my eyes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, Vinny Green Balls said: Was it spineless or a brain fart? I feel the first clearance was just a mistake, that happens. The lack of effort to even close down that shot was really poor. He didn’t even try. Miggy makes mistakes but he never slacks off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 I’m sorry, Pope’s error was the catalyst moment that turned the whole thing into what it was. It was the flash point. He created that entire situation. And then when he could have made a save to finally end it he fumbled the ball into ferguson. Tonali should have cleared that ball and closed down better tho. 100% agree with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, Kanji said: I’m sorry, Pope’s error was the catalyst moment that turned the whole thing into what it was. It was the flash point. He created that entire situation. And then when he could have made a save to finally end it he fumbled the ball into ferguson. Tonali should have cleared that ball and closed down better tho. 100% agree with that. Don’t disagree with you at all, pope set the events in motion,and was poor for the goal. But I don’t think it was lack of effort on his part, he looks shook for whatever reason. But Tonali just didn’t even want to try, even a minimal amount of effort to rush the shot, close the angle, at least make it somewhat more difficult. It looked so bad on the replay. A lot of our success last season was based on work ethic and he shouldn’t be exempt from that. Imo of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 I’ll agree with that mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 The problem is that you couldn't really call it a 'mistake'. A 5 year old knows that you're supposed to try to block a shot in that situation. His attitude just seemed all wrong, and in fact he seemed a bit tentative throughout. Perhaps he's mentally a bit brittle, and Eddie needs to work on that. The reports from AC Milan seemed to suggest that his form blew hot and cold. Maybe he finds it easy to perform in home games. After he was subbed, we seemed to show a bit more fight, but by then it was too late. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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