Erikse Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 (edited) 2 hours ago, Skeletor said: So playing 6 extra games this season is what's caused our never ending injury crisis long after we've not even been in the competition? An entire FA CUP run would be 7 games. Carabao Cup would be 6 games. 6 games extra in that schedule is a lot. Both fatigue and injuries started to settle at that time. Edited April 12 by Erikse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRL Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 3-0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 (edited) 7 minutes ago, leffe186 said: I genuinely think you’re being a bit weird here. It has been a really challenging season for you, and he’s already said you’ve had to deal with a ton of injuries. Before he even got to us he was having to defend his record of achievements with “small” sides in “small” leagues. He’s the last guy to be saying you’re “little Newcastle”. I think there’s definitely an argument to be made that he’s downplaying the CL in case we don’t get it this year (I think it’s wrong, but it can be made). I don’t think he’s taking the piss out of you. What exactly are we a "cautionary tale" of? We're 8th, good chance of being 6th tomorrow if we beat you, and with relative fixture lists and goal difference, the most likely to finish 6th. This for a team that had won 1 of its first 14 games two seasons ago and on the back of a finish only two places higher the previous season. Cautionary tale is a very odd term to use. Edited April 12 by Skeletor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 Also I think “for whatever reason” could just be interpreted as an acknowledgement that there have been a lot of different reasons for the challenges e.g. a guy bought arguably with the CL in mind who gets banned out of nowhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikse Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 28 minutes ago, leffe186 said: In all seriousness Skeletor, there have been months and months on here of people talking about how the style of play and number, intensity and frequency of games took its toll. Then when you started getting injuries it became a bit of a spiral, putting added pressure on a depleted squad and meaning players might get “rushed” back a bit. I think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick. Earlier this week he said “Eddie” had had horrible luck with injuries. I agree, we did get affected by those games, and if we are going to accuse others of using that as an excuse.. Well, how can we talk about our own struggles from the added games then? It's a legitimate challenge for any club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Skeletor said: What exactly are we a "cautionary tale" of? We're 8th, good chance of being 6th tomorrow if we beat you, and with relative fixture lists and goal difference, the most likely to finish 6th. This for a team that had won 1 of its first 14 games two seasons ago and on the back of a finish only two places higher the previous season. Cautionary tale is a very odd term to use. Yes it is. But it doesn’t also mean you’re “little Newcastle” or that you haven’t had a challenging season or that the CL isn’t a significant part of the reason why you’ve had a lot of injuries. Edited April 12 by leffe186 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikse Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Skeletor said: What exactly are we a "cautionary tale" of? We're 8th, good chance of being 6th tomorrow if we beat you, and with relative fixture lists and goal difference, the most likely to finish 6th. This for a team that had won 1 of its first 14 games two seasons ago and on the back of a finish only two places higher the previous season. Cautionary tale is a very odd term to use. We are were we are mainly because of what happened before and at the start of the CL run. After the CL run our form equates to around 14th in the table since then. It was at it's worst right before and after the 6th CL game. Our injury problems since then has never ended, it's even getting worse now. Edited April 12 by Erikse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 Just now, Erikse said: We are were we are mainly because of what happened before and at the start of the CL run. After the CL run our form equates to around 14th in the table since then. It was at it's worst right before and after the 6th CL game. So what's the cautionary tale? That going from 4th to (potentially) 6th is a massive disaster? Cautionary tale would sound like we were on the verge of being relegated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikse Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Skeletor said: So what's the cautionary tale? That going from 4th to (potentially) 6th is a massive disaster? Cautionary tale would sound like we were on the verge of being relegated. Potensially yes. But not sure about it when we have 13 injuries. Something that started with the CL run. Don't you think constanly having 10-13 injuries is a bit challenging? You said that yourself. The CL games plays a part in that. I feel like he's talking about things like injuries and fatigue here, like in "for whatever reason" it has contributed in causing us challenges like for example extreme amounts of injuries. "Whatever reason" could be for example playstyle, rotation, bad luck, etc. Edited April 12 by Erikse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gleebals Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 6 hours ago, astraguy said: Tripper has been out longer then i thought he was supposed to be Same with a lot of our players this season - apparently due back sooner than they actually where. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Erikse said: Potensially yes. But not sure about it when we have 13 injuries. Something that started with the CL run. Don't you think constanly having 10-13 injuries is a bit challenging? You said that yourself. The CL games plays a part in that. I feel like he's talking about the injuries and fatigue here, like in "for whatever reason" it has contributed in causing us challenges like for example extreme amounts of injuries. "Whatever reason" could be for example playstyle, rotation, bad luck, etc. Well I am someone who doesn't believe that such a consistent run of horrible injuries can be put down to just "bad luck". I hope the club will do a proper review of that in the summer rather than saying "oh well that was unlucky". The Champions League game added some strain but cannot be blamed for a whole season of never ending injuries considering we haven't been in it since December. However it was the first time in over 20 years we'd played in that competition, we got exciting new matches we'd never seen before and we will still likely qualify for Europe this season again. Edited April 12 by Skeletor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 12 minutes ago, Skeletor said: So what's the cautionary tale? That going from 4th to (potentially) 6th is a massive disaster? Cautionary tale would sound like we were on the verge of being relegated. I think he’s just saying qualifying for the CL in of itself shouldn’t be the goal. The cautionary tale isn’t that you did anything wrong - far from it - it’s just that it doesn’t always work out. He’s been saying for a while that the main thing is to progress and develop as a team so that you can challenge, properly challenge, to win things. If in doing that we qualify for the CL then great, but it’s not the important thing this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikse Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Skeletor said: Well I am someone who doesn't believe that such a consistent run of horrible injuries can be put down to just "bad luck". I hope the club will do a proper review of that in the summer rather than saying "oh well that was unlucky". The Champions League game added some strain. However it was the first time in over 20 years we'd played in that competition, we got exciting new matches we'd never seen before and we will still likely qualify for Europe this season again. Yes, I have the same opinion. No way it's all bad luck. But I also think there is no single reason, because some injuries were freak. I think all of the factors that I mentioned played a part, along with potensially several others. As Postecoglu would say: there is a cautionary tale here. That's what I'm reading from it. There is something to be learned from what happened to us this season. For example in regards to management of players in regards to fatigue and injuries. Maybe that's not what he meant, but it could be. Like if they qualify, they will need to try to manage things before they happen. Or it could just be expectation management as some said. Edited April 12 by Erikse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 7 minutes ago, Skeletor said: Well I am someone who doesn't believe that such a consistent run of horrible injuries can be put down to just "bad luck". I hope the club will do a proper review of that in the summer rather than saying "oh well that was unlucky". The Champions League game added some strain but cannot be blamed for a whole season of never ending injuries considering we haven't been in it since December. However it was the first time in over 20 years we'd played in that competition, we got exciting new matches we'd never seen before and we will still likely qualify for Europe this season again. And that’s great. It sounds like you think he doesn’t know all that though (“do your research, prick”) which just isn’t true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 (edited) 3 minutes ago, leffe186 said: And that’s great. It sounds like you think he doesn’t know all that though (“do your research, prick”) which just isn’t true. It doesn't come across as though he does know. "For whatever reason". There's one reason - non-availability of players either through injuries or being banned for being an expensive Italian gambling mafia don. Edited April 12 by Skeletor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 3 minutes ago, Skeletor said: It doesn't come across as though he does know. "For whatever reason". There's one reason - non-availability of players either through injuries or being banned for being an expensive Italian gambling mafia don. And as Jaqen and I pointed out, earlier this week he said Eddie was dealing with a ton of injuries. He knows. Do you seriously think the manager of a Premier League club who is playing you tomorrow is unaware that you’ve had a load of injuries? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikse Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 (edited) As someone who constanly tries to say that there is something seriously wrong going on with these injuries, the initial injury crisis after the CL run still affects us.. Botman, Willock, Wilson, Joelinton, Pope and Isak all got injured during that run. Others have been rushed back from injury due to absences. It's a vicious cycle. I really think we should've handled it better, and I'm concerned about it for next season, but it all started in november/december and it never ended from there. Edited April 12 by Erikse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 (edited) 4 minutes ago, leffe186 said: And as Jaqen and I pointed out, earlier this week he said Eddie was dealing with a ton of injuries. He knows. Do you seriously think the manager of a Premier League club who is playing you tomorrow is unaware that you’ve had a load of injuries? We can go round in circles. There is no context I can read those comments by your guy that doesn't come across as condescending and no amount of "he's a good guy, he knows" posts are going to change that. Shouldn't have said what he said. Edited April 12 by Skeletor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Skeletor said: We can go round in circles. There is no context I can read those comments by your guy that doesn't come across as condescending and no amount of "he's a good guy, he knows" posts are going to change that. Shouldn't have said what he said. The reason I responded was that you posted this: ”Because we have had half the squad injured all season. Do a little research prick.” Which quite clearly means you think he doesn’t know you’ve had a lot of injuries, and you’re very angry about that. Don’t be angry about that. He knows you have had a lot of injuries. It just came across a bit weird to me. Edited April 12 by leffe186 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 2 minutes ago, leffe186 said: The reason I responded was that you posted this: ”Because we have had half the squad injured all season. Do a little research prick.” Which quite clearly means you think he doesn’t know you’ve had a lot of injuries, and you’re very angry about that. Don’t be angry about that. He knows you have had a lot of injuries. It just came across a bit weird to me. As I said, he shouldn't have made those comments at all. We're not a cautionary tale of anything and it's well known our season hasn't been as good as last season due to injuries (not "whatever reason"). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDog Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 I hope I get up in time to watch this one, it'll be 6:30am where I am and I'm having a few pints tonight as my week was as shit as it gets. I'll setup a record on DVR just in case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikse Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) Well, if he said that as in "there is something for us to learn from that" (a cautionary tale).. He is trying to look at why we struggled after CL (with fatigue and injuries for example). And what we maybe could've done better about it from the beginning of the season, that they should also probably think about if they are in the tournament next season. Or? Edited April 13 by Erikse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 14 hours ago, RodneyCisse said: I hope that Eddie is playing one of his most beautiful bluffs. Joelinton starting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 15 minutes ago, Sima said: "I am Newcastle United" starting. Tidied Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 6 hours ago, Skeletor said: Well I am someone who doesn't believe that such a consistent run of horrible injuries can be put down to just "bad luck". I hope the club will do a proper review of that in the summer rather than saying "oh well that was unlucky". The Champions League game added some strain but cannot be blamed for a whole season of never ending injuries considering we haven't been in it since December. However it was the first time in over 20 years we'd played in that competition, we got exciting new matches we'd never seen before and we will still likely qualify for Europe this season again. As you say it’s a mixture of both as factors. More games and including those of higher quality with a depleted squad puts pressure on the players in a smaller rotation. As a physio myself and looking at it from that angle I definitely think there’ll be a review of some sort to look at decisions which were made in certain situations by the medical team. Are players being brought back too quickly at times, are there enough concrete decisions being made to stop players trying to force themselves back too early? I don’t know I’m just surmising. That said there have been a few freak injuries which have then healed more pressure on the squad. I’m sure everything will be looked at to see what they can do better as you can always improve every aspect of your club. I do also wonder if Howe will have a think about how he manages the team in certain situations moving forwards. Is there a way he can play in games where he drops the intensity a bit when there’s a boat load of injuries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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