Club Rivalries Worldwide

[SteV]

Just now, Wallsendmag said:

 

I'm not even sure it was that. I think it's more down to the demographic of our season ticket holders as it was them who made up 99% of our crowd in the Cup final.

 

Our average ST holder is probably around 50 years old these days and it was obvious walking along Wembley way that our support was going to be mainly made up of people of a certain age. This was confirmed once I got inside the concourse where excitement levels appeared low and the atmosphere subdued. It didn't improve once we took our seats. Far more elderly people than I'd seen at my previous 4 Wembley visits, plus Cardiff and the 2 Old Trafford Semis.

 

Back in the 90s, 2000 when we got there the make up of our support was much different. Groups of mainly young lads. Typically they're the people who generate the atmosphere whilst those in their 50s, 60s, 70s more inclined to sit back and watch the match.

 

As poor as we were at Wembley I was more disappointed at how easily the Man Utd fans outsung us. I mean they weren't even that good themselves but our end was abysmal.

Surely it’s the same for a lot of other teams though? Certainly the more established/big teams anyway. Someone put up a stat on here a while back about the average age of Liverpool ST holders, and I forget the exact age, but it was getting on.

 

I think your overall point is absolutely valid though, as it’s a growing problem in this country, not just NUFC specifically, due to ludicrous popularity of attending matches these days.

 

It’s not just a case of getting younger fans in either. We’ll all been to early round cup games in the past that have clearly had a younger crowd in and the atmosphere has been shite, worse than a standard league game. 
 

You need to find a way to get ST’s for older teenagers, so they continue to be able to go as they progress into their 20’s/30’s and bring the ‘radgie’ element to the support, whilst at the same time losing some some of the idiocy we all have as teenagers.

 

How you do that when demand is completely outstripping supply, and pricing is only going one way, I have no idea.

[Wallsendmag]

19 minutes ago, SteV said:

Surely it’s the same for a lot of other teams though? Certainly the more established/big teams anyway. Someone put up a stat on here a while back about the average age of Liverpool ST holders, and I forget the exact age, but it was getting on.

 

I think your overall point is absolutely valid though, as it’s a growing problem in this country, not just NUFC specifically, due to ludicrous popularity of attending matches these days.

 

It’s not just a case of getting younger fans in either. We’ll all been to early round cup games in the past that have clearly had a younger crowd in and the atmosphere has been shite, worse than a standard league game. 
 

You need to find a way to get ST’s for older teenagers, so they continue to be able to go as they progress into their 20’s/30’s and bring the ‘radgie’ element to the support, whilst at the same time losing some some of the idiocy we all have as teenagers.

 

How you do that when demand is completely outstripping supply, and pricing is only going one way, I have no idea.

 

Not sure about that. One thing that was very noticeable walking down Wembley way was that Man Utd had a lot more groups of boisterous lads in their 20s, 30s, 40s than we did. Not sure how their ticketing system works but I'm very familiar with Chelsea's and they allocate all tickets for away games and neutral venues 60/40 ST holders/members and for the bigger games, semi finals and finals it goes on loyalty points which reset every season so members can build up points in the same way ST holders can. They probably have a worse supply/demand problem than we do given their 40k capacity.

 

Now I haven't got any data to back myself up here but I'd be 99% confident that the average age of your typical NUFC member will be far lower than the average age of your typical ST holder.

 

One thing I would do if we ever moved stadium or increased capacity is for any extra tickets give priority to people in the Under 25s age group. Sure Liverpool did something similar when they put the extra tier on their main stand. Priority for those with a Liverpool postcode and something like 8 quid ticket prices for Juniors up there. As you mentioned they have a bigger problem than we do with am ageing ST holder base.

[SteV]

2 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

Not sure about that. One thing that was very noticeable walking down Wembley way was that Man Utd had a lot more groups of boisterous lads in their 20s, 30s, 40s than we did. Not sure how their ticketing system works but I'm very familiar with Chelsea's and they allocate all tickets for away games and neutral venues 60/40 ST holders/members and for the bigger games, semi finals and finals it goes on loyalty points which reset every season so members can build up points in the same way ST holders can. They probably have a worse supply/demand problem than we do given their 40k capacity.

 

Now I haven't got any data to back myself up here but I'd be 99% confident that the average age of your typical NUFC member will be far lower than the average age of your typical ST holder.

 

One thing I would do if we ever moved stadium or increased capacity is for any extra tickets give priority to people in the Under 25s age group. Sure Liverpool did something similar when they put the extra tier on their main stand. Priority for those with a Liverpool postcode and something like 8 quid ticket prices for Juniors up there. As you mentioned they have a bigger problem than we do with am ageing ST holder base.

Perhaps the new PIF St James’ Park super stadium on the Town Moor will help alleviate the problem…

[bobbydazzla]

Derbies I've been to: 

 

River v Boca (mega, the Monumental was rammo)

Flamengo v Vasco (mega, Maracana only 50% full though)

Hearts v Hibs (decent enough)

Stocksfield vs West Wylam (lethal)

 

 

[Disco]

3 hours ago, Coffee_Johnny said:

Bournemouth vs Southampton, this weekend. About 30 miles away from each other, is it a ‘passionate affair’? 

Nah, Saints (scummers) v Pompey (skates) is lively old affair though. 

[Pata]

Has anyone been to football in Czechia? Going there this weekend with lass and noticed Sparta-Slavia is on Saturday. Also how heated the derbies are? 18k stadium sold out but can see tickets on Viagogo for €80-100 which isn't that unreasonable. Worth it?

[Dr.Spaceman]

That's like paying £200 to watch a Premier League game.

[TheBrownBottle]

12 minutes ago, Pata said:

Has anyone been to football in Czechia? Going there this weekend with lass and noticed Sparta-Slavia is on Saturday. Also how heated the derbies are? 18k stadium sold out but can see tickets on Viagogo for €80-100 which isn't that unreasonable. Worth it?

That looks like an insane price tbh  

[Pata]

5 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

That's like paying £200 to watch a Premier League game.

 

I've done that too. 

[NUFC91]

Borussia Mönchengladbach vs FC Köln looks mental, @Wallsendmag seen you been to a few German games, you been to either of these? Heard this fixture is class 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 21:07 by NUFC91

[Fak]

Wey aye get stuck into that. 

[Pata]

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

That looks like an insane price tbh  

 

Obviously it's a lot of money for one match but not that bad for a one off derby match and this will most likely be the only time I'm in Prague at the right time.

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 21:09 by Pata

[Dr.Spaceman]

21 minutes ago, Pata said:

 

I've done that too. 

 

You like your football more than I do then. Crack on, if you can afford it it's all relative isn't it.

[Fak]

20 minutes ago, Pata said:

 

Obviously it's a lot of money for one match but not that bad for a one off derby match and this will most likely be the only time I'm in Prague at the right time.

 

 

 

If you can afford it then cough up and sample the derby. You’ll look back on regret not doing it otherwise. 

[Pata]

6 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

 

You like your football more than I do then. Crack on, if you can afford it it's all relative isn't it.

 

I've bought the hospitality package once at SJP, doubt I'll do it again but I really wanted a ticket for the Crystal Palace match last season when we had the forum meet up. Obviously hurts a lot more as a local but when you are spending decent amount on flights and accommodation in any case, doing a £100-200 ticket for a guaranteed seat isn't that bad once or twice a season.

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 21:35 by Pata

[Dr.Spaceman]

2 minutes ago, Pata said:

 

I've bought the hospitality package once at SJP, doubt I'll do it again but I really wanted a ticket for the Crystal Palace match last season when we had the forum meet up. Obviously hurts a lot more as a local but when you are spending decent amount on flights and accommodation in any case, doing a £100-200 ticket for a guaranteed seat isn't that bad once or twice a season.

 

 

 

 

The 4-0 game? Decent one to pick 

[Kaizero]

40 minutes ago, Pata said:

Also how heated the derbies are?

 

Found a decent article about the derby, but this particular part of it doesn't bode well for the derby being a heated one:

"Interestingly, Sparta and Slavia have played quite a few friendly matches, which is not very typical for derbies, but which once again emphasizes the lack of fierce hatred in the relationship between the clubs."

 

https://www.sport-express.ru/football/foreign/reviews/795838/

 

Google Translated:

[Pata]

Quote

Although tensions between Slavia and Sparta have simmered down considerably when compared to the heights of the communist regime, violent clashes between the two sets of supporters remain common, both outside the stadium, as well as, infamously, within the stadium, as was the case during a meeting of the teams in 2013.

From the 1990’s onwards, sections of Sparta’s fanbase have veered off from their traditional communist roots and have instead been plagued by accusations of anti-semitism and other nationalist & far-right ideologies. In recent years, the Prague derby has been increasingly afflicted by controversial chants, with more none controversial than “Jude Slavia”, an overtly anti-semitic Sparta chant aimed at critiquing Slavia Prague’s alleged Jewish links. Sparta are no strangers to controversy, having already been fined previously by UEFA for racist chanting during European encounters.

 

https://www.through-the-turnstiles.com/world-derbies/the-prague-derby-a-tale-of-two-identities

 

That's Sparta.

 

Slavia's player got suspended for 10 matches for racism against Glen Kamara when he was playing for Rangers. They played against Sparta in next season's Europa League behind closed doors due to another racism incident and the school kids that were allowed to enter the stadium booed Kamara's every touch. Fucking hell, Czechia.

 

https://yle.fi/a/3-12124714

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 21:53 by Pata

[wfmk2]

Here's a neutral AI point of view:

 

If we focus specifically on derbies between teams from different towns or cities, the Tyne-Wear Derby (Newcastle vs. Sunderland) ranks among the most intense, particularly in England. It has a deep historical and cultural rivalry, but it does not quite have the same global profile as some of the biggest inter-city clashes worldwide.

Ranking Newcastle vs. Sunderland in Inter-City Derbies

Here’s how it stacks up:

Tier 1 – Global, Era-Defining Inter-City Rivalries

(Rivalries with worldwide appeal, historical significance, and high-stakes encounters regularly on the biggest stage)

Barcelona vs. Real Madrid (El Clásico) – Spain

Boca Juniors vs. River Plate (Superclásico) – Argentina

Liverpool vs. Manchester United – England

Fenerbahçe vs. Galatasaray (Intercontinental Derby) – Turkey

AC Milan vs. Juventus – Italy (Historically important but more of a competitive rivalry)

Dortmund vs. Bayern Munich (Der Klassiker) – Germany (Competitive, but lacks deep historical enmity)

Tier 2 – Fierce, Regionally Defining Inter-City Derbies

(Highly passionate, deeply rooted in regional and cultural divides, often overshadowed by bigger national/global derbies)

Newcastle vs. Sunderland (Tyne-Wear Derby) – England

Dortmund vs. Schalke (Revierderby) – Germany

Lazio vs. Napoli – Italy

Red Star Belgrade vs. Partizan (Eternal Derby) – Serbia (technically same city, but strong regional divide)

São Paulo vs. Corinthians – Brazil

Olympique de Marseille vs. Paris Saint-Germain (Le Classique) – France

Tier 3 – Fierce but Less Prominent Outside Their Own Country

(Often overshadowed by same-city rivalries or other domestic clashes)

Athletic Bilbao vs. Real Sociedad (Basque Derby) – Spain

Sevilla vs. Real Betis – Spain

Gremio vs. Internacional (Grenal Derby) – Brazil

Rosario Central vs. Newell’s Old Boys – Argentina

Porto vs. Benfica (O Clássico) – Portugal

Where Does Newcastle vs. Sunderland Rank?

In England: Arguably the most intense inter-city rivalry, though overshadowed in global appeal by Liverpool vs. Manchester United.

In Europe: A strong Tier 2 derby—historically and culturally significant but less high-profile due to Sunderland’s lower-league status.

Globally: It ranks among the most passionate but falls short of the true elite in terms of worldwide exposure.

If Sunderland and Newcastle were consistently in the Premier League, it would likely gain a stronger profile, but in terms of sheer hostility and historical depth, it remains one of England’s fiercest. Would you rate it higher or lower?

[Groundhog63]

Just caught up with this and can only say there's probably message boards, related to all these clubs you "tourists" have been to, where the locals are handwringing their tits off about random couples sat "taking it all in" 😂

 

Sauce for the goose, and all that jazz. 

[Kaizero]

Read through some more of the articles on that Russian site in their "Around the World in 60 Derbies" series, and was pleasantly surprised to see the series end with an article on the Tyne-Wear derby. 

 

So, without further ado, enjoy the Google Translated version of  Russian Sport website's take on our own derby from our darker days, all the way back in May 2012:

 

 

https://www.sport-express.ru/football/reviews/804427/

 

[Kaizero]

Ended up reading about the most violent football derbies in the world and was reminded that the one that very much deserves both crown and title is a derby extremely few without special interest in derbies even know exist, namely the HŠK Zrinjski – FK Velež derby in Bosnia's spiritual capital, Mostar. 

 

 

The city is divided by the bridge above, Stari Most, a 16th century bridge (damaged during the Yugoslav wars and essentially rebuilt after the war). On one side you have a the supporters of Zrinjski, right-wing ultra-nationalists. On the other side, you find the fans of Velež, ultra left-wing and multiethnic.

 

In the post-war rebuild, the Zrinjski ultras managed to force the new Bosnian government to "give them" Velež old stadium as it was placed in an area of the rebuild where Croat/Serb people were being re-integrated into the city, forcing Velež to give up their claim to their original stadium and move to a hastily built new stadium on "their" side of town – going from a 13k capacity stadium to playing at a "stadium" that didn't have any stands until the first stand was built in 1999, four years after Zrinjski forced them out of their stadium. For the record; FK Velež was formed in 1922, whereas HŠK Zrinjski was "reformed" in 1992 after not having existed since it was disbanded 47 years prior, in 1945...

 

The level of hatred between the clubs and their supporters can be explained with a single example of an incident that occured, in the middle of a match, as a muslim player scored for Velež in a match between the two clubs just moments before half-time – only for said muslim player to be violently attacked, kidnapped and held hostage by Zrinjski ultras for several days. Naturally, the match was abandoned after the incident – but where you'd think Zrinjski would be penalized for the actions of their fans, or that the match would resume play at a later date picking up from the time it was abandoned (half-time), you'd be sorely wrong. Through political pressure from the Zrinjski ultras, the Bosnian FA decided that the match was to be replayed entirely from scratch. This meant Velež no longer had a 2-0 lead with 45 minutes to go and instead would start with a 0-0 scoreline and having to play the first half all over again. This time, Zrinjski left the field victorious after 90 minutes + extra time had been played.

 

Granted, the above story is from the time period before HŠK Zrinjski was disbanded in 1945 and as such there's not much source material to read up on regarding the incident. As such, a modern day example would be a fixture between the clubs in 2011 that got abandoned after Zrinjski ultras stormed the pitch and attacked/chased Velež players around with a variety of melee-related items. This time Zrinjski was fined and Velež was awarded a 0-3 victory without the need to resume play at a later time. 

 

Wiki articles (even those in local languages) are sadly far too "professional" in their content, so reading up on the violence occuring between the set of supporters ahead of each match-up isn't the easiest thing to do. I had to scour Bosniak/Croat/Serb sites to find news articles reporting on them to satisfy my need to "confirm" the level of hatred between the clubs/supporters and the degree of violent incidents occurring between their ultras even in modern times. One of the more flamboyant incidents I read about was a group of young Zrinjski ultras forcing three young muslim Velež supporters to jump from the Stari Most bridge. All three got away without any major injuries, but I mean... when a group of people do that to someone else, just because they're muslims, it's just straight-up a hate crime and no longer football-related, IMO  

 

Either way, thought it could be of interest to some to read a little about one of the most hateful football derbies in professional football – especially given the fact it may not even have been aware existed. 

 

 

 

Caveat: I became aware of the derby in the late 2000s when me and some friends were doing Interrail in the Balkans and had a stopover in Mostar. I'm sure there might be several people on here that are way more clued up about this derby than I am, and that for all I know some of the incidents reported on might've been embellished by the media reporting on them, depending where on the political bias spectrum the media reporting on it might occupy. if anyone on here happen to know more about this derby and the ultras hatred of each other, as well as about the history between the two clubs, I'd love to learn more about it – even if it were to crush my mental image of just how much vitriol and hatred really exist between the two set of supporters  

[timeEd32]

3 hours ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

That's like paying £200 to watch a Premier League game.

 

For anyone used to American prices this is basically the cost of going to any live event. In some cases it's the cost for one ticket. For some sports and teams it's the last seat in the building or standing room only.

[Disco]

4 hours ago, NUFC91 said:

Borussia Mönchengladbach vs FC Köln looks mental, @Wallsendmag seen you been to a few German games, you been to either of these? Heard this fixture is class 

 

 

 

I’ve been to Koln’s lesser derby against Leverkusen which was a good laugh, lots of pyro and what have you but not especially dodgy. Began my years long hate affair with Mr Havertz n all. 

[Wallsendmag]

4 hours ago, NUFC91 said:

Borussia Mönchengladbach vs FC Köln looks mental, @Wallsendmag seen you been to a few German games, you been to either of these? Heard this fixture is class 

 

 

 

 

Been to both grounds but never seen them play each other. I can imagine it being pretty lively like! Both have very excitable and passionate supports. Ironically we're going to watch Borussia Monchengladbach v RB Leipzig in just over 3 weeks time then getting the train along to Cologne for a night out afterwards, then the next day the train to Eindhoven for the small matter of PSV v Ajax. Should be a good weekend.