The Board etc. etc.

[NE5]

Whoever said Newcastle's gates weren't big enough to keep Waddle, Gazza and Peter    Honest mate that's the most pathetic thing I've ever come across in my entire life.  In 1984 we were the third best supported club in the country, in 1985 we were fourth, then we sold Waddle.  Some people leave themselves wide open with poorly thought out posts.

 

That is Mick well and truly slaughtered, because you are right again NE15.

 

Speaking of which, has he replied to where we corrected him about the transfer fees of Goddard and Simpson, along with the fact that West Brom and West Ham had bigger transfer records than we had, at a time he said the board were "ambitious"

 

His research is going very well indeed.

 

 

[Mick]

 

Before sky, nobody had sky yet many more clubs than nowadays made more use than us of the same resources that we all had. I can prove that, the proof is in the league positions since the 1960's, which I am quite prepared to put up again if you've suffered another bout of memory loss.

 

Eer....the manager who went to Everton finished in the top 4 3 times, bought England internationals, and set up a youth system that produced Southall, Ratcliffe, Sheedy, Stevens, Stephen, Sharpe and Mountfield. Who all went on to take their team to 2 league titles, the FA Cup and Cup winners Cup. Can you match factual answers like this ..... like why didn't he stay at Newcastle ?

 

While we were relegated, and produced the golden era of years in the 2nd division, and your favourite postion of a bottom half place in the top league for a while until 1992 and the Halls and Shepherd ruined it by transforming us into a club who buys quality players and qualify regularly for europe.

 

Why don't you comment on my last post, where I said you preferred the eras of mediocrity to finishing 5th .... or are you going to duck it again

 

 

 

 

I'll repeat again what I said for your information, I mentioned falling attendances before Sky arrived on the scene, were attendances falling or not?  Or, are you going to try to change history?

 

Gordon Lee did such a good job at Everton that they sacked him, he went to Preston where they were in such a bad state when he left that they had to be bailed out by directors, he then went to Leicester 6 years after the Preston job for one season, he won nothing during his career other than promotion from the third division twice.

 

I've already said I preferrd the football before Lee came and I'll stand by that, it doesn't mean I prefer mediocrity.

[Guest elbee909]

Bunch of children you lot, sometimes  :roll:

[Stevie]

 

Before sky, nobody had sky yet many more clubs than nowadays made more use than us of the same resources that we all had. I can prove that, the proof is in the league positions since the 1960's, which I am quite prepared to put up again if you've suffered another bout of memory loss.

 

Eer....the manager who went to Everton finished in the top 4 3 times, bought England internationals, and set up a youth system that produced Southall, Ratcliffe, Sheedy, Stevens, Stephen, Sharpe and Mountfield. Who all went on to take their team to 2 league titles, the FA Cup and Cup winners Cup. Can you match factual answers like this ..... like why didn't he stay at Newcastle ?

 

While we were relegated, and produced the golden era of years in the 2nd division, and your favourite postion of a bottom half place in the top league for a while until 1992 and the Halls and Shepherd ruined it by transforming us into a club who buys quality players and qualify regularly for europe.

 

Why don't you comment on my last post, where I said you preferred the eras of mediocrity to finishing 5th .... or are you going to duck it again

 

 

 

 

I'll repeat again what I said for your information, I mentioned falling attendances before Sky arrived on the scene, were attendances falling or not?   Or, are you going to try to change history?

 

Gordon Lee did such a good job at Everton that they sacked him, he went to Preston where they were in such a bad state when he left that they had to be bailed out by directors, he then went to Leicester 6 years after the Preston job for one season, he won nothing during his career other than promotion from the third division twice.

 

I've already said I preferrd the football before Lee came and I'll stand by that, it doesn't mean I prefer mediocrity.

 

Aye but not when we sold Waddle 4fs!!!  We were averaging 30,000 then 27,000 which was more than Spurs at the time, and the reason the crowds went down, were because of the fact the players were being sold, and no ambition.  The players leaving had FUCK ALL to do with the attendances.  When I'm wrong I admit it, and I would like you to admit you're wrong on this subject.  Honest mate **** knows where you're doing your research, but just give it a miss.

[NE5]

 

Before sky, nobody had sky yet many more clubs than nowadays made more use than us of the same resources that we all had. I can prove that, the proof is in the league positions since the 1960's, which I am quite prepared to put up again if you've suffered another bout of memory loss.

 

Eer....the manager who went to Everton finished in the top 4 3 times, bought England internationals, and set up a youth system that produced Southall, Ratcliffe, Sheedy, Stevens, Stephen, Sharpe and Mountfield. Who all went on to take their team to 2 league titles, the FA Cup and Cup winners Cup. Can you match factual answers like this ..... like why didn't he stay at Newcastle ?

 

While we were relegated, and produced the golden era of years in the 2nd division, and your favourite postion of a bottom half place in the top league for a while until 1992 and the Halls and Shepherd ruined it by transforming us into a club who buys quality players and qualify regularly for europe.

 

Why don't you comment on my last post, where I said you preferred the eras of mediocrity to finishing 5th .... or are you going to duck it again

 

 

 

 

I'll repeat again what I said for your information, I mentioned falling attendances before Sky arrived on the scene, were attendances falling or not?  Or, are you going to try to change history?

 

Gordon Lee did such a good job at Everton that they sacked him, he went to Preston where they were in such a bad state when he left that they had to be bailed out by directors, he then went to Leicester 6 years after the Preston job for one season, he won nothing during his career other than promotion from the third division twice.

 

I've already said I preferrd the football before Lee came and I'll stand by that, it doesn't mean I prefer mediocrity.

 

We aren't talking about what gordon Lee did 6 years after he left Newcastle. We are talking about Newcastle, and you don't answer

 

Why he left.

 

Why you are happier with regimes that finish low in the league and are even relegated to those who are 5th top.

 

How he did so well to finish 5th at all with such a shite backing from the board, buying as you said yourself, Graham Oates [who I don't think was so bad, he was a squad utility player for a small fee] .

 

Answer the questions.

 

As Stevie says, the crowds are proportional to everyone. The promotion of 1984 was a chance for the club to move up and build a better club, but they squandered it. I have also commented on this, and you ignore it EVERY TIME.

 

So answer the questions.

 

 

[Mick]

Whoever said Newcastle's gates weren't big enough to keep Waddle, Gazza and Peter    Honest mate that's the most pathetic thing I've ever come across in my entire life.  In 1984 we were the third best supported club in the country, in 1985 we were fourth, then we sold Waddle.  Some people leave themselves wide open with poorly thought out posts.

 

Our average league gates with Waddle, Beardsley and Gazza were:

 

1983/84 - 29,811

1984/85 - 26,228, Waddles last season.

1985/86 - 23,434

1986/87 - 24,750, Beardsleys last season. 

1987/88 - 21,038

1988/89 - 22,810, Gascoignes last season.

1989/90 - 21,525

 

The gates were falling before we sold anybody.

[Mick]

 

bluebiggrin.gif

 

Why? Think about it.

 

I suppose one of the reasons was we were known at a cup side since winning the FA Cup 3 times in the 50's and winning the Fairs Cup.

[Stevie]

Whoever said Newcastle's gates weren't big enough to keep Waddle, Gazza and Peter    Honest mate that's the most pathetic thing I've ever come across in my entire life.  In 1984 we were the third best supported club in the country, in 1985 we were fourth, then we sold Waddle.  Some people leave themselves wide open with poorly thought out posts.

 

Our average league gates with Waddle, Beardsley and Gazza were:

 

1983/84 - 29,811

1984/85 - 26,228, Waddles last season.

1985/86 - 23,434

1986/87 - 24,750, Beardsleys last season. 

1987/88 - 21,038

1988/89 - 22,810, Gascoignes last season.

1989/90 - 21,525

 

The gates were falling before we sold anybody.

 

Gazza's last season 88/89  pmsl.  Mick if yee had any first hand knowledge of the toon in the 80's you would not have forgotten our opening home game of that season.  Gazza's home coming with Spurs!  If the toon had've been succesful (come 10th say) in 88/89 we'd have averaged 30,000 no problem.  We got two 14,000 gates when we had already been relegated, or was it West Ham that put us doon?  I remember Lormor's over head kick in the first minute.   It's a miracle having been totally fucking shite, that we averaged 23,000, no other club that would come last in the league would've got 23,000.  The reason the season before was so low was because the capacity was just over 25,000.   Totally flawed points Mick, wor  crowds had **** all to do with players leaving, totally ridiculous to suggest that was a reason they left.

[Mick]

 

Indeed, and why he left Newcastle Mick.

 

And a comment as to why you attempted to mislead people wouldn't go amiss.

 

I would like to say that it is highly amusing that you say you work with figures but don't understand the relevance of league positions ......

 

 

 

Lee won nothing in his career other than promotion twice, I've said that already, Souness did better than that.

 

Where have I tried to mislead people?

 

I understand the relavance of league position, I have no problem with that.

[Mick]

Whoever said Newcastle's gates weren't big enough to keep Waddle, Gazza and Peter    Honest mate that's the most pathetic thing I've ever come across in my entire life.  In 1984 we were the third best supported club in the country, in 1985 we were fourth, then we sold Waddle.  Some people leave themselves wide open with poorly thought out posts.

 

Our average league gates with Waddle, Beardsley and Gazza were:

 

1983/84 - 29,811

1984/85 - 26,228, Waddles last season.

1985/86 - 23,434

1986/87 - 24,750, Beardsleys last season. 

1987/88 - 21,038

1988/89 - 22,810, Gascoignes last season.

1989/90 - 21,525

 

The gates were falling before we sold anybody.

 

Gazza's last season 88/89  pmsl.  Mick if yee had any first hand knowledge of the toon in the 80's you would not have forgotten our opening home game of that season.  Gazza's home coming with Spurs!  If the toon had've been succesful (come 10th say) in 88/89 we'd have averaged 30,000 no problem.  We got two 14,000 gates when we had already been relegated, or was it West Ham that put us doon?  I remember Lormor's over head kick in the first minute.   It's a miracle having been totally fucking shite, that we averaged 23,000, no other club that would come last in the league would've got 23,000.  The reason the season before was so low was because the capacity was just over 25,000.   Totally flawed points Mick, wor  crowds had **** all to do with players leaving, totally ridiculous to suggest that was a reason they left.

 

I know I got Gazza wrong, it was the season before.

 

The point I'm trying to make with gates is that maybe the club didn't have the money to keep them.  I remember Jack Charlton commenting that the club had spent/wasted (I'm not sure which) a fortune on players.

 

I'm not trying to put our gates down, I've tried to explain to NE5 that most clubs gates were falling not just ours, I know we were always one of the best supported teams even when struggling, clubs must have been over the moon when we played them as we took so many to away games.

[Stevie]

Whoever said Newcastle's gates weren't big enough to keep Waddle, Gazza and Peter    Honest mate that's the most pathetic thing I've ever come across in my entire life.  In 1984 we were the third best supported club in the country, in 1985 we were fourth, then we sold Waddle.  Some people leave themselves wide open with poorly thought out posts.

 

Our average league gates with Waddle, Beardsley and Gazza were:

 

1983/84 - 29,811

1984/85 - 26,228, Waddles last season.

1985/86 - 23,434

1986/87 - 24,750, Beardsleys last season. 

1987/88 - 21,038

1988/89 - 22,810, Gascoignes last season.

1989/90 - 21,525

 

The gates were falling before we sold anybody.

 

Gazza's last season 88/89  pmsl.  Mick if yee had any first hand knowledge of the toon in the 80's you would not have forgotten our opening home game of that season.  Gazza's home coming with Spurs!  If the toon had've been succesful (come 10th say) in 88/89 we'd have averaged 30,000 no problem.  We got two 14,000 gates when we had already been relegated, or was it West Ham that put us doon?  I remember Lormor's over head kick in the first minute.   It's a miracle having been totally fucking shite, that we averaged 23,000, no other club that would come last in the league would've got 23,000.  The reason the season before was so low was because the capacity was just over 25,000.   Totally flawed points Mick, wor  crowds had **** all to do with players leaving, totally ridiculous to suggest that was a reason they left.

 

I know I got Gazza wrong, it was the season before.

 

The point I'm trying to make with gates is that maybe the club didn't have the money to keep them.  I remember Jack Charlton commenting that the club had spent/wasted (I'm not sure which) a fortune on players.

 

I'm not trying to put our gates down, I've tried to explain to NE5 that most clubs gates were falling not just ours, I know we were always one of the best supported teams even when struggling, clubs must have been over the moon when we played them as we took so many to away games.

You're basically saying the revenue we received from gate money in the late 80's caused us to sell our best players.  I repeat, total pish, TOTAL PISH, that's the end of the matter.  The fact remains we could've kept Gascoigne, he was offered £3,000 a week, but he signed for Spurs for £3,000 a week, it had everything to do with the ambition of the club, and the draconian way it was being run. 

[Mick]

 

We aren't talking about what gordon Lee did 6 years after he left Newcastle. We are talking about Newcastle, and you don't answer

 

Why he left.

 

Why you are happier with regimes that finish low in the league and are even relegated to those who are 5th top.

 

How he did so well to finish 5th at all with such a shite backing from the board, buying as you said yourself, Graham Oates [who I don't think was so bad, he was a squad utility player for a small fee] .

 

Answer the questions.

 

As Stevie says, the crowds are proportional to everyone. The promotion of 1984 was a chance for the club to move up and build a better club, but they squandered it. I have also commented on this, and you ignore it EVERY TIME.

 

So answer the questions.

 

 

 

NE5, you are the one who thinks crowds are a measure of success; you keep banging on about getting 52,000 and that being a measure of our success when compared to old attendance figures.

 

I've always tried to say that our crowd figures were proportionally good so was that a measure of past success?

 

[Mick]

You're basically saying the revenue we received from gate money in the late 80's caused us to sell our best players.  I repeat, total pish, TOTAL PISH, that's the end of the matter.  The fact remains we could've kept Gascoigne, he was offered £3,000 a week, but he signed for Spurs for £3,000 a week, it had everything to do with the ambition of the club, and the draconian way it was being run. 

 

I can't really argue with the figures you mention except to say that the only figures I've ever seen are that Spurs offered Gazza £125,000 a year which was twice what we offered, I have no idea if this is true, it could be bullshit.

[Stevie]

You're basically saying the revenue we received from gate money in the late 80's caused us to sell our best players.  I repeat, total pish, TOTAL PISH, that's the end of the matter.  The fact remains we could've kept Gascoigne, he was offered £3,000 a week, but he signed for Spurs for £3,000 a week, it had everything to do with the ambition of the club, and the draconian way it was being run. 

 

I can't really argue with the figures you mention except to say that the only figures I've ever seen are that Spurs offered Gazza £125,000 a year which was twice what we offered, I have no idea if this is true, it could be bullshit.

McKeag told Gibbo and Oliver Gazza had been offered £3,000 a week, and he knocked it back.

[Howaythelads]

Whoever said Newcastle's gates weren't big enough to keep Waddle, Gazza and Peter    Honest mate that's the most pathetic thing I've ever come across in my entire life.  In 1984 we were the third best supported club in the country, in 1985 we were fourth, then we sold Waddle.  Some people leave themselves wide open with poorly thought out posts.

 

Our average league gates with Waddle, Beardsley and Gazza were:

 

1983/84 - 29,811

1984/85 - 26,228, Waddles last season.

1985/86 - 23,434

1986/87 - 24,750, Beardsleys last season. 

1987/88 - 21,038

1988/89 - 22,810, Gascoignes last season.

1989/90 - 21,525

 

The gates were falling before we sold anybody.

 

Yes, and the reason they were falling was because people knew we had no ambition to build on what we had, which is what then led to players leaving the club.

 

Look at the promotion season under KK. We got off to flyer and what did we do, we went out and bought Rob Lee, we signed a player to improve the team from a position of strength. This being the first time in my life that the club had done that. The Chairman was SJH, the one's that came before him were mainly wankers of the highest order. Once it was apparent the club was showing ambition what happened? I'll tell you, the supporters came flocking in, attendance went up and up to what you see today. They could go higher and that's because despite the problems the club shows ambition.

[NE5]

 

Indeed, and why he left Newcastle Mick.

 

And a comment as to why you attempted to mislead people wouldn't go amiss.

 

I would like to say that it is highly amusing that you say you work with figures but don't understand the relevance of league positions ......

 

 

 

Lee won nothing in his career other than promotion twice, I've said that already, Souness did better than that.

 

Where have I tried to mislead people?

 

I understand the relavance of league position, I have no problem with that.

 

Answer the questions.

 

Mine, HTL's and NE15's

 

 

[NE5]

 

We aren't talking about what gordon Lee did 6 years after he left Newcastle. We are talking about Newcastle, and you don't answer

 

Why he left.

 

Why you are happier with regimes that finish low in the league and are even relegated to those who are 5th top.

 

How he did so well to finish 5th at all with such a shite backing from the board, buying as you said yourself, Graham Oates [who I don't think was so bad, he was a squad utility player for a small fee] .

 

Answer the questions.

 

As Stevie says, the crowds are proportional to everyone. The promotion of 1984 was a chance for the club to move up and build a better club, but they squandered it. I have also commented on this, and you ignore it EVERY TIME.

 

So answer the questions.

 

 

 

NE5, you are the one who thinks crowds are a measure of success; you keep banging on about getting 52,000 and that being a measure of our success when compared to old attendance figures.

 

I've always tried to say that our crowd figures were proportionally good so was that a measure of past success?

 

 

Answer the questions.

 

And I think league positions reflect success, I have made this quite clear. Only a complete idiot could be happier with 3 successive 15th positions than a 5th top, or think a board who ran the club who sold our best players, spent years in the bottom half of the league and years in the 2nd division, is the same standard as a board who runs a club that allows the manager to keep his best players if he wants them, backs him to buy more quality players and is the 5th top club in the country over a decade..

 

So, answer our questions. Myself, HTL and NE15 are slaughtering you and you know it. But keep up your research  :lol:

[NE5]

 

bluebiggrin.gif

 

Why? Think about it.

 

I suppose one of the reasons was we were known at a cup side since winning the FA Cup 3 times in the 50's and winning the Fairs Cup.

 

oh my god

 

:obi:

[Mick]

 

bluebiggrin.gif

 

Why? Think about it.

 

I suppose one of the reasons was we were known at a cup side since winning the FA Cup 3 times in the 50's and winning the Fairs Cup.

 

oh my god

 

:obi:

 

Well you explain why we had a crowd of 28,954 against Man City in the league and 45,300 against the same team a few weeks earlier in the 4th round of the FA Cup during 1977.

 

Why did we get 29,344 against a small club like Wrexham in the 4th round of the FA Cup in 1978 then only get 28,933 against Everton in the league a few weeks later and 20,256 against Man City 4 days after Everton.

 

Or 1975, Notts County in the League Cup with a gate of 31,114 and only 26,152 to see us play Ipswich at home in the league during the same month.

 

Let's have your words of wisdom to explain that.

 

Here's something about the wonderful Gordon Lee

 

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mickzoe/managers/glee.html

 

 

The Glee Club?

 

The article "Domestic Distress" revealed that in terms of results achieved Gordon Lee is one of the most succesful managers in the club's history.

 

In his first season at the club (1975/76) he guided them to the League Cup Final and the Sixth Round of the FA Cup; and in the following season he guided them into the top six of the first division; the first time the club had reached such heady heights since the 1950's

 

Yet he is also one of the most unpopular managers to sit in the St. James' hot seat. Why? Because he sold the star players and replaced them with also-rans, he encouraged negative football and he walked out on the club when he was offered better money by the Toffeemen

 

In this article we re-evaluate his contribution to the club and offer a startling explanation of the methods behind his apparent madness.

Successful Lee?

There can be no doubt that Lee's managerial career was comparatively successful

 

His first managerial post was with Port Vale whom he guided to the Third Division in his second season in charge. He spent another 4 seasons in the Midlands but never managed to take the team any higher.

 

At Port Vale money was very scarce and Lee had to rely on free-transfers and homegrown talent, but as he proudly stated; "I have players who would literally dive through a brick wall for Port Vale"

 

In January 1974 he took over from Ken Furphy at Blackburn and guided them to the Third Division championship in the following season. The United board were sufficiently impressed to ask him to take over from Joe Harvey. The Blackburn board were less impressed and reported United for making an illegal approach; it was to be the start of a long running feud with the Lancastrians.

 

 

In his first season on the Toon (1975/76) he steered United to a League Cup Final and the 6th round of the FA Cup and if the club had not been struck with a plague of injury and illness of almost biblical proportions they might have done even better. The League campaign was more disappointing as the team ended 15th (the same position as the last season under Harvey).

 

The sale of Supermac provided the prelude to the following season and the bookies immediately made United favourites for relegation. But after a shaky start the team closed ranks and steadily climbed the table until they reached the dizzy heights of third by the end of November.There were some notable performances including a 1-0 home win over leaders Liverpool and a 2-2 draw at Leeds after which Lee claimed "we showed Leeds how to play football."

 

In January 1977 Lee resigned to take over at Everton and steered them away from the relegation zone and took them through to the League Cup Final and the FA Cup semi-finals The next seasons saw Everton finishing in third and fourth place respectively, but in 1979-1980 season things turned sour and - after months of speculation and a place just above the relegation positions - he was sacked.

 

Lee had further spells as manager of Preston (12/1981 - 12/1983) and Leicester (1/91 - 5/91), but his time had gone and further success eluded him

Whatever it takes

Lee was from the Alan Durban (if you want entertainment go to a circus) school of management. Even in his first job at Port Vale the "negative" tactics he employed often came in for criticism, but he never apologised for playing "the style that gets results"

 

In 1973 West Ham manager Ron Greenwood accused Port Vale of "diabolical intimidation" in a a cup tie "For the first time in my life, I could relate violence on the field to violence on the terraces. People can say we were lucky. I agree Iucky to come away alive". Lee's response was 'I can only treat the remarks with the contempt they deserve'.

 

 

When Lee took over at United he derided Newcastle's "crash bang wallop" style of play; believing that to achieve success you needed to play "controlled" posession football. Despite this his first season at United had goals galore and thrills aplenty (indeed United scored more goals than any club in the country). It wasn't until the following season that Lee managed to stamp his personal "style" on the team.

 

The southern press derided Lee's team as "dull and workmanlike" and even some of the local pressmen were critical of the style of play. The fans too were openly critical of the team's new tactics (at least when they did not work). There was no doubt that on their day with their best players available United's were a match for the best in the land, but when players were missing or simply off-form they no longer had any players with the individual brilliance to turn a game.

Purge of the Infidels

Immediately on joining Lee made it clear what sort of player he wanted at the club. "I have to make sure everybody in the team is working for everybody else. Anyone not prepared to work is out!".

 

So one by one he set about purging the side of the players he considered were not contributing to his team ethic. In reality the players that were moved on represented the "old guard". With the exception of Keeley they were all players who had been at the club a number of years; and nearly all were first-teamers

 

Terry Hibbitt - £100,000 to Birmingham [september 1975]

 

Lee pinpointed Terry Hibbitt as a "troublemaker" and he was out of the door within months of Lee's arrival. Hibbitt found out he was leaving when he finished getting changed after an away match against Derby and found his boots wrapped up in a paper bag on top of a skip. Lee having already negotiated a transfer deal with Birmingham.

 

Alex Bruce - part exchange to preston [september 1975]

Bruce had been signed from Preston a couple of years earlier but had failed to break into the side and he was used as a makeweight in the deal that brought John Bird to Tyneside

 

Glen Keeley - £30,000 to Blackburn [August 1976]

Keeley was a promising young 21 year old who had established himself in Joe Harvey's last year in charge, but he was rarely given a chance by Lee. He went on to have a notable career at Ewood Park where he played for 11 seasons (many as captain).

 

Pat Howard - £50,000 to Arsenal [september 1976]

Centre-back Howard had made more than 250 appearances for the club and was still only 28 when he was sold. United turned down bids from Nottm Forest and Southampton before finally selling him to the Gunners.

 

John Tudor - £30,000 to Stoke [October 1976]

Supermac's old strike-partner Tudor was the last of the "old-guard" to be sold. A succession of injuries and the arrival of Gowling limited Tudor to 7(1) appearances during Lee's reign

 

Malcolm Macdonald - £333,333 to Arsenal [July 1976]

The sale of Supermac was of course the one that really took the headlines. In reality it had been on the cards since Lee first wandered through the gates at SJP, but it was still a monumental shock when he left

Mac and Lee

As soon as Lee arrived at the club he made his feelings clear regarding footballing superstars. "Stars are something you see in the sky at night; they're for astrologers" was Lee's oft repeated refrain. "It's like another word people like to use these days, 'flair',. When I hear that word I think of something you light a fire with or the bottom of someone's trousers" Newcastle only had one true star at the time, Supermac

 

 

In his many autobiographies Macdonald relates why he could not work with Lee. He tells of their first meeting when Lee asked him about Hibbitt the "trouble maker". He talks about the new "joke" training sessions that reminded him of PE lessons he had a school with a female sports mistress. He reveals how angry he was with the way Lee treated his mate Terry Hibbitt. And he also talks about numerous verbal altercations that the pair had. Further, as far as Macdonald was concerned Lee was "jealous" of the relationship Macdonald had with the Newcastle public.

 

Publicly though the pair were putting on a United front. I an interview with Shoot magazine in August 1975 Macdonald stated that in training "the air has been supercharged and there is a completely new enthusiasm among the players since Mr Lee has taken over our coaching sessions"

 

And after the home game with Leicester Lee talked in glowing terms about Macdonald.

 

But in reality their relationship went steadily downhill. Macdonald had been used to special treatment; he had a special relationship with Joe Harvey whereby he "never had to ask for a rise". Lee preferred to favour his own type of player; Gowling, Burns and Nulty forming an inner sanctum at the club. As Macdonald stated later "suddenly we had a players commitee, small meetings in locked rooms and a lot of gossip running throughout the club"

 

Lee actively encouraged other players to voice their opinions about Macdonald and this (according to Gowling) reached a crescendo on the post season tour of Malaysia in 1976

 

Mac refused to take part in the team picture at the start of the 1976/77 season because "he wouldn't be able to raise a smile" and within days he was off to London to join Arsenal

 

When Lee moved on to Everton he was asked if he would go back to Newcastle for any of his old players. His reply was typically forthright "If they wanted £333,000 for Macdonald, God only knows what they will want for the good players!"

 

Of course Suermac wasn't the only seventies star who failed to impress Gordon. Supermac When manager of Blackburn, Lee described Leeds United's Duncan McKenzie as a ‘piss pot player’. Not surprisingly when they met up again at Everton the player was soon moved on

Bargain-less Basement

Lee's replacements were all picked up frm the Third and Fourth Divisions. Unfortunately that's where the majority of them belonged. As a consequence his successor "Richard Dinnis" was left with a paper-thin and inadequate squad of players. Disaster was just around the corner

 

Alan Gowling - £75,000 from Huddersfield [August 1975]

Twenty Six year old Gowling was rescued from the ailing Yorkshire club that now found itself in the bottom division. He was Lee's first and arguably only successful signing. When he signed him Lee controversially claimed he would outscore Supermac and to everyone's surpise he did just that in 1975/76 scoring 30 goals in 57 appearances whereas Mac managed 24 goals in 53 appearances.

 

However once Mac had left the goals dried up somewhat and he ended with a strike rate of only 33%. He was one of the protaganists in the "player power" of the Dinnis era and the arrival of strict disciplinarian Bill Mcgarry was him moving on to to Bolton in March 1978 with a strike rate of only 33%

 

John Bird - £100,000 from Preston [september 1975]

Centre-back Bird was Preston's captain and the move resulted in their manager Bobby Charlton resigning. He had a torrid debut in a 4-0 defeat at Maine Road and faced heavy criticism from media and fans alike during his first season at the club. Dropped by Lee he was disciplined for speaking out in the press. He never fully established himself in the side, but still remained at the club for five seasons

 

Roger Jones - £100,000 from Blackburn [March 1976]

Lee went back to his old club to snap up 29 year old goalkeeper Roger Jones. he made 5 appearances during the rest of the season and appeared to be regarded by Lee as his number one.

 

He then suffered a shoulder injury in pre-season training and United claimed that they had been advised by a specialist that the injury was so serious that he would no longer play again. Eventually he joined Stoke on a free in February 1977 and continued playing for another eight seasons

 

A medical misjudgement or something more sinister? United used the injury as an excuse for refusing to cough up the money they owed Blackburn.

 

Graham Oates - £100,000 from Blackburn [March 1976]

Utility man Oates was snapped up at the same time as Jones and according to Supermac was given a wonderful build-up by Lee. Unfortunately he didn't live up to his reputation and his fate with the fans was sealed within four minutes of his home debut when he smacked a 25 yard back-pass into the roof of his own net. He struggled on (making a total of 29(10) appearances and scoring 3 goals) before joining the exodus of Football League failures in the American League

 

Martin Gorry - £50,000 from Barnsley [October 1976]

21 year old Gorry was signed as a future prospect, but ended up making only one substitute appearance for the club in 1977/78 before joining Hartlepool on a free.

 

Steve Hardwick - £80,000 from Chesterfield [December 1976]

The injury to Roger Jones led Lee to buy another 'keeper, 20 year old Steve Hardwick. Hardwick was a former England youth and amatuer international. He eventually became the first choice keeper during 1978/79 and 1979/80, but was prone to errors which earned him stick from sections of the crowd and eventually his place in the side. He joined Oxford in February 1983 after making 101 appearances.

Personal Lee

Lee could not work with "stars", but he certainly gained the respect of the other more mundane players

 

Tony Parkes (who was his assistant at Blackburn) has told of how many players were in tears when Lee resigned; some even went to his house to try and persuade him to stay

 

At Newcastle he was very popular with the "rump" that was left. Stewart Barrowclough's said at the time "I believe there is a new spirit at the club. Before we had some fine individuals at the club, now everyone works as part of a team"

 

But It has even been suggested in some quarters that it was not just stars that Lee took a dislike to. Supposedly Newcastle were all set to sign Alan Hansen, but dropped out of the deal at the last minute because Lee did not rate Scottish players. More seriously it has been said that he would not entertain signing players who were not white.

 

When the directors sanctioned the sale of Macdonald they were putting an enormous amount of faith in a manager that frankly didn't deserve it.

 

He had walked out on Blackburn after serving only 18 months of his contract and never actually got round to buying a house on Tyneside. Indeed the fact that his family was still in Lancashire was one of a number of "reasons" he gave for resigning his job in charge of a side currently in the top six for a side struggling against relegation

 

A couple of weeks before Lee resigned he was quoted in the club programme. "There is a very happy atmosphere within the club .. and the relationship between the playing staff, the coaches, myself and the Board of Directors is excellent". Within weeks he had resigned, helpfully informing the players the morning of the FA Cup Tie at home to Man City.

Terrifying Lee

So there we have it; misunderstood genius or evil meddler?. If we consider the evidence a terrifying picture emerges

 

Lee had a complete aversion to "stars"; believing that they belonged in the heavens.It was a hatred that seemed to be almost evil

 

The person he had most trouble with was Macdonald who was worshipped like a God on Tyneside. Even the song "Supermac, superstar, how many goals have you scored so far" was based on a song about Jesus

 

When he resigned to take over at Everton he criticised the Newcastle board for "talking big" but not "acting big". He obviously felt that he could not achieve his vision working within such a parochial and parsimonious framework. What were his bigger plans?

 

He sold established first division players and replaced them with his own 3rd and 4th rate "disciples"; players such as Jones and Oates who had been with him at Blackburn. And created an inner sanctum at the club which he used to help oust his enemies

 

If you spell Lee's name backwards you get "eel". An eel is a term occasionally used to describe "an evasive and untrustworthy person"

 

Astonishingly - if you take the surname of all the players he bought one of the anagrams that can be created is "Why Sir CG, rigid Gordon Lee job work Satan"

 

 

Now take a look at that elongated forehead and deep sunken eyes; is this the look of a man of this earth?

 

I know your sceptical. The idea that one of our former managers is one of the devils own, some sort of inhuman zombie is a bit hard to swallow but I leave you with a quote from the man/zombie himself

 

"Even when you're dead you shouldn't lie down and let yourself be buried"

I rest my case.

 

[Guest The Fox]

No doubt that under Lee we were more successful league wise than before and we got to the League Cup Final, with Macdonald in the side I might add.

Its equally true that it was a team devoid of individual brilliance that worked hard as a team unit, but was not the most entertaining to watch.

Lee used Newcastle as a rung to get on the higher echelons of Management IMO and opted out when it suited him and a role nearer home was available. Left Dinnis, who he had taken with him from Blackburn, at St James' and we all know how he turned out.

Personally with the type of team he produced I do not think he would have taken Newcastle any higher and we saw the best of him.

[NE5]

 

bluebiggrin.gif

 

Why? Think about it.

 

I suppose one of the reasons was we were known at a cup side since winning the FA Cup 3 times in the 50's and winning the Fairs Cup.

 

oh my god

 

:obi:

 

Well you explain why we had a crowd of 28,954 against Man City in the league and 45,300 against the same team a few weeks earlier in the 4th round of the FA Cup during 1977.

 

Why did we get 29,344 against a small club like Wrexham in the 4th round of the FA Cup in 1978 then only get 28,933 against Everton in the league a few weeks later and 20,256 against Man City 4 days after Everton.

 

Or 1975, Notts County in the League Cup with a gate of 31,114 and only 26,152 to see us play Ipswich at home in the league during the same month.

 

Let's have your words of wisdom to explain that.

 

Here's something about the wonderful Gordon Lee

 

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mickzoe/managers/glee.html

 

 

The Glee Club?

 

The article "Domestic Distress" revealed that in terms of results achieved Gordon Lee is one of the most succesful managers in the club's history.

 

In his first season at the club (1975/76) he guided them to the League Cup Final and the Sixth Round of the FA Cup; and in the following season he guided them into the top six of the first division; the first time the club had reached such heady heights since the 1950's

 

Yet he is also one of the most unpopular managers to sit in the St. James' hot seat. Why? Because he sold the star players and replaced them with also-rans, he encouraged negative football and he walked out on the club when he was offered better money by the Toffeemen

 

In this article we re-evaluate his contribution to the club and offer a startling explanation of the methods behind his apparent madness.

Successful Lee?

There can be no doubt that Lee's managerial career was comparatively successful

 

His first managerial post was with Port Vale whom he guided to the Third Division in his second season in charge. He spent another 4 seasons in the Midlands but never managed to take the team any higher.

 

At Port Vale money was very scarce and Lee had to rely on free-transfers and homegrown talent, but as he proudly stated; "I have players who would literally dive through a brick wall for Port Vale"

 

In January 1974 he took over from Ken Furphy at Blackburn and guided them to the Third Division championship in the following season. The United board were sufficiently impressed to ask him to take over from Joe Harvey. The Blackburn board were less impressed and reported United for making an illegal approach; it was to be the start of a long running feud with the Lancastrians.

 

 

In his first season on the Toon (1975/76) he steered United to a League Cup Final and the 6th round of the FA Cup and if the club had not been struck with a plague of injury and illness of almost biblical proportions they might have done even better. The League campaign was more disappointing as the team ended 15th (the same position as the last season under Harvey).

 

The sale of Supermac provided the prelude to the following season and the bookies immediately made United favourites for relegation. But after a shaky start the team closed ranks and steadily climbed the table until they reached the dizzy heights of third by the end of November.There were some notable performances including a 1-0 home win over leaders Liverpool and a 2-2 draw at Leeds after which Lee claimed "we showed Leeds how to play football."

 

In January 1977 Lee resigned to take over at Everton and steered them away from the relegation zone and took them through to the League Cup Final and the FA Cup semi-finals The next seasons saw Everton finishing in third and fourth place respectively, but in 1979-1980 season things turned sour and - after months of speculation and a place just above the relegation positions - he was sacked.

 

Lee had further spells as manager of Preston (12/1981 - 12/1983) and Leicester (1/91 - 5/91), but his time had gone and further success eluded him

Whatever it takes

Lee was from the Alan Durban (if you want entertainment go to a circus) school of management. Even in his first job at Port Vale the "negative" tactics he employed often came in for criticism, but he never apologised for playing "the style that gets results"

 

In 1973 West Ham manager Ron Greenwood accused Port Vale of "diabolical intimidation" in a a cup tie "For the first time in my life, I could relate violence on the field to violence on the terraces. People can say we were lucky. I agree Iucky to come away alive". Lee's response was 'I can only treat the remarks with the contempt they deserve'.

 

 

When Lee took over at United he derided Newcastle's "crash bang wallop" style of play; believing that to achieve success you needed to play "controlled" posession football. Despite this his first season at United had goals galore and thrills aplenty (indeed United scored more goals than any club in the country). It wasn't until the following season that Lee managed to stamp his personal "style" on the team.

 

The southern press derided Lee's team as "dull and workmanlike" and even some of the local pressmen were critical of the style of play. The fans too were openly critical of the team's new tactics (at least when they did not work). There was no doubt that on their day with their best players available United's were a match for the best in the land, but when players were missing or simply off-form they no longer had any players with the individual brilliance to turn a game.

Purge of the Infidels

Immediately on joining Lee made it clear what sort of player he wanted at the club. "I have to make sure everybody in the team is working for everybody else. Anyone not prepared to work is out!".

 

So one by one he set about purging the side of the players he considered were not contributing to his team ethic. In reality the players that were moved on represented the "old guard". With the exception of Keeley they were all players who had been at the club a number of years; and nearly all were first-teamers

 

Terry Hibbitt - £100,000 to Birmingham [september 1975]

 

Lee pinpointed Terry Hibbitt as a "troublemaker" and he was out of the door within months of Lee's arrival. Hibbitt found out he was leaving when he finished getting changed after an away match against Derby and found his boots wrapped up in a paper bag on top of a skip. Lee having already negotiated a transfer deal with Birmingham.

 

Alex Bruce - part exchange to preston [september 1975]

Bruce had been signed from Preston a couple of years earlier but had failed to break into the side and he was used as a makeweight in the deal that brought John Bird to Tyneside

 

Glen Keeley - £30,000 to Blackburn [August 1976]

Keeley was a promising young 21 year old who had established himself in Joe Harvey's last year in charge, but he was rarely given a chance by Lee. He went on to have a notable career at Ewood Park where he played for 11 seasons (many as captain).

 

Pat Howard - £50,000 to Arsenal [september 1976]

Centre-back Howard had made more than 250 appearances for the club and was still only 28 when he was sold. United turned down bids from Nottm Forest and Southampton before finally selling him to the Gunners.

 

John Tudor - £30,000 to Stoke [October 1976]

Supermac's old strike-partner Tudor was the last of the "old-guard" to be sold. A succession of injuries and the arrival of Gowling limited Tudor to 7(1) appearances during Lee's reign

 

Malcolm Macdonald - £333,333 to Arsenal [July 1976]

The sale of Supermac was of course the one that really took the headlines. In reality it had been on the cards since Lee first wandered through the gates at SJP, but it was still a monumental shock when he left

Mac and Lee

As soon as Lee arrived at the club he made his feelings clear regarding footballing superstars. "Stars are something you see in the sky at night; they're for astrologers" was Lee's oft repeated refrain. "It's like another word people like to use these days, 'flair',. When I hear that word I think of something you light a fire with or the bottom of someone's trousers" Newcastle only had one true star at the time, Supermac

 

 

In his many autobiographies Macdonald relates why he could not work with Lee. He tells of their first meeting when Lee asked him about Hibbitt the "trouble maker". He talks about the new "joke" training sessions that reminded him of PE lessons he had a school with a female sports mistress. He reveals how angry he was with the way Lee treated his mate Terry Hibbitt. And he also talks about numerous verbal altercations that the pair had. Further, as far as Macdonald was concerned Lee was "jealous" of the relationship Macdonald had with the Newcastle public.

 

Publicly though the pair were putting on a United front. I an interview with Shoot magazine in August 1975 Macdonald stated that in training "the air has been supercharged and there is a completely new enthusiasm among the players since Mr Lee has taken over our coaching sessions"

 

And after the home game with Leicester Lee talked in glowing terms about Macdonald.

 

But in reality their relationship went steadily downhill. Macdonald had been used to special treatment; he had a special relationship with Joe Harvey whereby he "never had to ask for a rise". Lee preferred to favour his own type of player; Gowling, Burns and Nulty forming an inner sanctum at the club. As Macdonald stated later "suddenly we had a players commitee, small meetings in locked rooms and a lot of gossip running throughout the club"

 

Lee actively encouraged other players to voice their opinions about Macdonald and this (according to Gowling) reached a crescendo on the post season tour of Malaysia in 1976

 

Mac refused to take part in the team picture at the start of the 1976/77 season because "he wouldn't be able to raise a smile" and within days he was off to London to join Arsenal

 

When Lee moved on to Everton he was asked if he would go back to Newcastle for any of his old players. His reply was typically forthright "If they wanted £333,000 for Macdonald, God only knows what they will want for the good players!"

 

Of course Suermac wasn't the only seventies star who failed to impress Gordon. Supermac When manager of Blackburn, Lee described Leeds United's Duncan McKenzie as a ‘piss pot player’. Not surprisingly when they met up again at Everton the player was soon moved on

Bargain-less Basement

Lee's replacements were all picked up frm the Third and Fourth Divisions. Unfortunately that's where the majority of them belonged. As a consequence his successor "Richard Dinnis" was left with a paper-thin and inadequate squad of players. Disaster was just around the corner

 

Alan Gowling - £75,000 from Huddersfield [August 1975]

Twenty Six year old Gowling was rescued from the ailing Yorkshire club that now found itself in the bottom division. He was Lee's first and arguably only successful signing. When he signed him Lee controversially claimed he would outscore Supermac and to everyone's surpise he did just that in 1975/76 scoring 30 goals in 57 appearances whereas Mac managed 24 goals in 53 appearances.

 

However once Mac had left the goals dried up somewhat and he ended with a strike rate of only 33%. He was one of the protaganists in the "player power" of the Dinnis era and the arrival of strict disciplinarian Bill Mcgarry was him moving on to to Bolton in March 1978 with a strike rate of only 33%

 

John Bird - £100,000 from Preston [september 1975]

Centre-back Bird was Preston's captain and the move resulted in their manager Bobby Charlton resigning. He had a torrid debut in a 4-0 defeat at Maine Road and faced heavy criticism from media and fans alike during his first season at the club. Dropped by Lee he was disciplined for speaking out in the press. He never fully established himself in the side, but still remained at the club for five seasons

 

Roger Jones - £100,000 from Blackburn [March 1976]

Lee went back to his old club to snap up 29 year old goalkeeper Roger Jones. he made 5 appearances during the rest of the season and appeared to be regarded by Lee as his number one.

 

He then suffered a shoulder injury in pre-season training and United claimed that they had been advised by a specialist that the injury was so serious that he would no longer play again. Eventually he joined Stoke on a free in February 1977 and continued playing for another eight seasons

 

A medical misjudgement or something more sinister? United used the injury as an excuse for refusing to cough up the money they owed Blackburn.

 

Graham Oates - £100,000 from Blackburn [March 1976]

Utility man Oates was snapped up at the same time as Jones and according to Supermac was given a wonderful build-up by Lee. Unfortunately he didn't live up to his reputation and his fate with the fans was sealed within four minutes of his home debut when he smacked a 25 yard back-pass into the roof of his own net. He struggled on (making a total of 29(10) appearances and scoring 3 goals) before joining the exodus of Football League failures in the American League

 

Martin Gorry - £50,000 from Barnsley [October 1976]

21 year old Gorry was signed as a future prospect, but ended up making only one substitute appearance for the club in 1977/78 before joining Hartlepool on a free.

 

Steve Hardwick - £80,000 from Chesterfield [December 1976]

The injury to Roger Jones led Lee to buy another 'keeper, 20 year old Steve Hardwick. Hardwick was a former England youth and amatuer international. He eventually became the first choice keeper during 1978/79 and 1979/80, but was prone to errors which earned him stick from sections of the crowd and eventually his place in the side. He joined Oxford in February 1983 after making 101 appearances.

Personal Lee

Lee could not work with "stars", but he certainly gained the respect of the other more mundane players

 

Tony Parkes (who was his assistant at Blackburn) has told of how many players were in tears when Lee resigned; some even went to his house to try and persuade him to stay

 

At Newcastle he was very popular with the "rump" that was left. Stewart Barrowclough's said at the time "I believe there is a new spirit at the club. Before we had some fine individuals at the club, now everyone works as part of a team"

 

But It has even been suggested in some quarters that it was not just stars that Lee took a dislike to. Supposedly Newcastle were all set to sign Alan Hansen, but dropped out of the deal at the last minute because Lee did not rate Scottish players. More seriously it has been said that he would not entertain signing players who were not white.

 

When the directors sanctioned the sale of Macdonald they were putting an enormous amount of faith in a manager that frankly didn't deserve it.

 

He had walked out on Blackburn after serving only 18 months of his contract and never actually got round to buying a house on Tyneside. Indeed the fact that his family was still in Lancashire was one of a number of "reasons" he gave for resigning his job in charge of a side currently in the top six for a side struggling against relegation

 

A couple of weeks before Lee resigned he was quoted in the club programme. "There is a very happy atmosphere within the club .. and the relationship between the playing staff, the coaches, myself and the Board of Directors is excellent". Within weeks he had resigned, helpfully informing the players the morning of the FA Cup Tie at home to Man City.

Terrifying Lee

So there we have it; misunderstood genius or evil meddler?. If we consider the evidence a terrifying picture emerges

 

Lee had a complete aversion to "stars"; believing that they belonged in the heavens.It was a hatred that seemed to be almost evil

 

The person he had most trouble with was Macdonald who was worshipped like a God on Tyneside. Even the song "Supermac, superstar, how many goals have you scored so far" was based on a song about Jesus

 

When he resigned to take over at Everton he criticised the Newcastle board for "talking big" but not "acting big". He obviously felt that he could not achieve his vision working within such a parochial and parsimonious framework. What were his bigger plans?

 

He sold established first division players and replaced them with his own 3rd and 4th rate "disciples"; players such as Jones and Oates who had been with him at Blackburn. And created an inner sanctum at the club which he used to help oust his enemies

 

If you spell Lee's name backwards you get "eel". An eel is a term occasionally used to describe "an evasive and untrustworthy person"

 

Astonishingly - if you take the surname of all the players he bought one of the anagrams that can be created is "Why Sir CG, rigid Gordon Lee job work Satan"

 

 

Now take a look at that elongated forehead and deep sunken eyes; is this the look of a man of this earth?

 

I know your sceptical. The idea that one of our former managers is one of the devils own, some sort of inhuman zombie is a bit hard to swallow but I leave you with a quote from the man/zombie himself

 

"Even when you're dead you shouldn't lie down and let yourself be buried"

I rest my case.

 

 

Well, what a rant and ridiculous reply to the questions I, NE15 and HTL asked you.

 

For starters, we aren't talking about crowds, we are talking about points and league positions. That you have completely ignored.

 

The 45,000 crowd in the FA Cup was Gordon Lee's last match as Newcastle manager, when the crowd were chanting for him to stay, and the players subsequently went on strike against the club, upset at losing their boss who they felt had them on the right lines.

 

The right lines being, in fact "controlled possession" football, rather than "crash bang wallop". Anyone who knows anything about football will tell you that controlled possession football is the way to play, becomes more important the higher you go, yet you cling to the absurd idiotic notion that having a number 9 to hang your hat on is preferable to having a good, successful team.

 

I just know you didn't really go to the game during this time, it stands out a mile...apart from the 76 League Cup Final under Lee probably, where we at least turned up, in fact were the better side and could probably have won if almost all the players hadn't had flu and the request for a postponement was turned down.

 

Malcolm MacDonald did nothing after he left Newcastle, he finished playing 3 years later, due to an injury that the club knew would terminate his career early when they sold him.  Terry Hibbit was sold because Tommy Craig was a better player, and the team finished 10 places higher in the team without these 2 players. You are nothing other than a myth follower, believing what you have read, the same as you follow all those now who think the current board is crap, despite giving you regular european football instead of the relegations and struggles that you think is a golden era.

 

There is absolutely no hope for you. Keep on doing your research, put it in a book and it will be full of untrue info and shite, guaranteed, if what you say on here is anything to go by.

 

Now, how about answering the questions that myself, HTL and NE15 have asked you ? Include the corrections that Stevie made to your info regarding the transfer fees of Goddard, Simpson and the laughable claim that we sold waddle, Gazza and Beardsley because the club couldn't afford to keep them. You obviously weren't at Anfield when Beardsley waved to the Kop months before his transfer....but then again it is becoming more obvious that you weren't anywhere other than either in Eldon Square or living in a dreamworld.

 

And personally, Roger Jones was IMO the best keeper I have ever seen play for Newcastle, he was an England under 21 player at Bournemouth, and was a massive coup, and if he hadn't been injured would have challenged Shilton, Clemence and Corrigan in what was an era of great English goalkeepers.   

 

Now - answer the questions, if you wish to retain a shred of credibility.

 

 

 

 

[Mick]

 

Well, what a rant and ridiculous reply to the questions I, NE15 and HTL asked you.

 

For starters, we aren't talking about crowds, we are talking about points and league positions. That you have completely ignored.

 

The 45,000 crowd in the FA Cup was Gordon Lee's last match as Newcastle manager, when the crowd were chanting for him to stay, and the players subsequently went on strike against the club, upset at losing their boss who they felt had them on the right lines.

 

The right lines being, in fact "controlled possession" football, rather than "crash bang wallop". Anyone who knows anything about football will tell you that controlled possession football is the way to play, becomes more important the higher you go, yet you cling to the absurd idiotic notion that having a number 9 to hang your hat on is preferable to having a good, successful team.

 

I just know you didn't really go to the game during this time, it stands out a mile...apart from the 76 League Cup Final under Lee probably, where we at least turned up, in fact were the better side and could probably have won if almost all the players hadn't had flu and the request for a postponement was turned down.

 

Malcolm MacDonald did nothing after he left Newcastle, he finished playing 3 years later, due to an injury that the club knew would terminate his career early when they sold him.  Terry Hibbit was sold because Tommy Craig was a better player, and the team finished 10 places higher in the team without these 2 players. You are nothing other than a myth follower, believing what you have read, the same as you follow all those now who think the current board is crap, despite giving you regular european football instead of the relegations and struggles that you think is a golden era.

 

There is absolutely no hope for you. Keep on doing your research, put it in a book and it will be full of untrue info and shite, guaranteed, if what you say on here is anything to go by.

 

Now, how about answering the questions that myself, HTL and NE15 have asked you ? Include the corrections that Stevie made to your info regarding the transfer fees of Goddard, Simpson and the laughable claim that we sold waddle, Gazza and Beardsley because the club couldn't afford to keep them. You obviously weren't at Anfield when Beardsley waved to the Kop months before his transfer....but then again it is becoming more obvious that you weren't anywhere other than either in Eldon Square or living in a dreamworld.

 

And personally, Roger Jones was IMO the best keeper I have ever seen play for Newcastle, he was an England under 21 player at Bournemouth, and was a massive coup, and if he hadn't been injured would have challenged Shilton, Clemence and Corrigan in what was an era of great English goalkeepers.   

 

Now - answer the questions, if you wish to retain a shred of credibility.

 

 

 

 

 

That wasn't a rant at all, if you can read then you would have noticed that it was a copy and paste job from Toonarama, I even added a link and it backs up what I was saying about what people thought of Gordon Lee but it is better for your view of things if it looks like they were my words.  The ability to read would also show that I had answered all of the questions that NE15 and HTL asked, at least I think I have.  Also, I wasn't asked any questions about the transfer fee of Goddard and Simpson, learn to read and you will see that I agreed with what Steve had said about Goddard costing £415k so why would he question me?

 

I did go to games, you're so arrogant, it just doesn't suit your argument as I have a different view to yours, it's a view held by plenty of others and the Toonarama view just backs that up.

 

You say the fans were chanting for him to stay, I can't ever remember that happening, his resignation would not have bumped the crowd up if the Toonarama version of events is correct when they say "Within weeks he had resigned, helpfully informing the players the morning of the FA Cup tie at home to Man City."  I can't remember anything about his resignation until afterwards, you'll no doubt give your opinion that we all knew and you'll try to pass it off as fact.

 

As for me preferring to have a number 9 to hang my hat on in preference to having a good, successful team.  Again it's you twisting my words, I said I preferred the football that we played while we had Macdonald, you also go on about the two different styles of football, the one you run down is the style Keegan brought to Newcastle and the style you seem quite happy to have watched under him, is this double standards?  Were you screaming for "controlled possession" football, rather than "crash bang wallop"?

 

It's good to see that Roger Jones made such an impression on you that he became the best keeper you had ever seen play for Newcastle while playing how many games?

[Guest The Fox]

"And personally, Roger Jones was IMO the best keeper I have ever seen play for Newcastle"  is a quote that many might challenge and does not add any weight to the postings.

All very interesting though and no doubt..................to be continued.

[NE5]

 

Well, what a rant and ridiculous reply to the questions I, NE15 and HTL asked you.

 

For starters, we aren't talking about crowds, we are talking about points and league positions. That you have completely ignored.

 

The 45,000 crowd in the FA Cup was Gordon Lee's last match as Newcastle manager, when the crowd were chanting for him to stay, and the players subsequently went on strike against the club, upset at losing their boss who they felt had them on the right lines.

 

The right lines being, in fact "controlled possession" football, rather than "crash bang wallop". Anyone who knows anything about football will tell you that controlled possession football is the way to play, becomes more important the higher you go, yet you cling to the absurd idiotic notion that having a number 9 to hang your hat on is preferable to having a good, successful team.

 

I just know you didn't really go to the game during this time, it stands out a mile...apart from the 76 League Cup Final under Lee probably, where we at least turned up, in fact were the better side and could probably have won if almost all the players hadn't had flu and the request for a postponement was turned down.

 

Malcolm MacDonald did nothing after he left Newcastle, he finished playing 3 years later, due to an injury that the club knew would terminate his career early when they sold him.  Terry Hibbit was sold because Tommy Craig was a better player, and the team finished 10 places higher in the team without these 2 players. You are nothing other than a myth follower, believing what you have read, the same as you follow all those now who think the current board is crap, despite giving you regular european football instead of the relegations and struggles that you think is a golden era.

 

There is absolutely no hope for you. Keep on doing your research, put it in a book and it will be full of untrue info and shite, guaranteed, if what you say on here is anything to go by.

 

Now, how about answering the questions that myself, HTL and NE15 have asked you ? Include the corrections that Stevie made to your info regarding the transfer fees of Goddard, Simpson and the laughable claim that we sold waddle, Gazza and Beardsley because the club couldn't afford to keep them. You obviously weren't at Anfield when Beardsley waved to the Kop months before his transfer....but then again it is becoming more obvious that you weren't anywhere other than either in Eldon Square or living in a dreamworld.

 

And personally, Roger Jones was IMO the best keeper I have ever seen play for Newcastle, he was an England under 21 player at Bournemouth, and was a massive coup, and if he hadn't been injured would have challenged Shilton, Clemence and Corrigan in what was an era of great English goalkeepers.   

 

Now - answer the questions, if you wish to retain a shred of credibility.

 

 

 

 

 

That wasn't a rant at all, if you can read then you would have noticed that it was a copy and paste job from Toonarama, I even added a link and it backs up what I was saying about what people thought of Gordon Lee but it is better for your view of things if it looks like they were my words.  The ability to read would also show that I had answered all of the questions that NE15 and HTL asked, at least I think I have.  Also, I wasn't asked any questions about the transfer fee of Goddard and Simpson, learn to read and you will see that I agreed with what Steve had said about Goddard costing £415k so why would he question me?

 

I did go to games, you're so arrogant, it just doesn't suit your argument as I have a different view to yours, it's a view held by plenty of others and the Toonarama view just backs that up.

 

You say the fans were chanting for him to stay, I can't ever remember that happening, his resignation would not have bumped the crowd up if the Toonarama version of events is correct when they say "Within weeks he had resigned, helpfully informing the players the morning of the FA Cup tie at home to Man City."  I can't remember anything about his resignation until afterwards, you'll no doubt give your opinion that we all knew and you'll try to pass it off as fact.

 

As for me preferring to have a number 9 to hang my hat on in preference to having a good, successful team.  Again it's you twisting my words, I said I preferred the football that we played while we had Macdonald, you also go on about the two different styles of football, the one you run down is the style Keegan brought to Newcastle and the style you seem quite happy to have watched under him, is this double standards?  Were you screaming for "controlled possession" football, rather than "crash bang wallop"?

 

It's good to see that Roger Jones made such an impression on you that he became the best keeper you had ever seen play for Newcastle while playing how many games?

 

Answer the questions.

 

While you're at it, here's another. Tell us why Roger Jones didn't play so many games, as you say you were there, you should know.

 

The Leazes End, durign the Man City game, was singing Gordon we love you, I was in it. And, I notice you don't reply to me correcting you that the Man City game was his last game, instead mentioning it quietly, or did you not even notice.

 

Show me where I have said anything detrimental about Keegan, I have argued the toss for him for years against people that criticise him, I even did it last week on here to macca888 - again, so that is utter bullshit, like almost everything else you say. Keegan actually, and Cox, were the first managers we had since Lee who preached possession football, quality passing, push and run, movement and the team ethic. Interesting that toonarama reckons Glen Keeley was a good signing, and John Bird wasn't, most of that article is just nothing in particular, there are very few facts. Along with Alex Bruce was a good signing discarded by Lee, Alex Bruce was a 2nd rate player and nobody hardly noticed him leave.

 

In short, its just a poor piece of nothing, written by someone resembling Alan Oliver, but we are not talking about this either, we are talking about where Lee finished at Newcastle, and why you like people who give us struggling, relegated and mediocre teams and don't like people who give us teams that qualify for europe finishing in the top 5 of the table. Put it quite basically, you can post as much freelance journo type garbage as you like, but I will shoot you down with facts. And I don't even need to look it up, unlike you.

 

Why did Lee leave Newcastle ? Did it or did it not, take us almost 20 years to finish 5th again ?

 

However your notion [which qualifies this thread for the gold section IMO] that we couldn't keep Gazza, Beardsley and Waddle because we couldn't afford them, and ignorance of many other matters is what gives the impression that I now have of you, you give it yourself.

 

Now, rather than get sidetracked again, answer the questsions, by myself, HTL and NE15. What are you afraid of ? Answer them. And don't forget the Roger Jones question.

 

 

[NE5]

"And personally, Roger Jones was IMO the best keeper I have ever seen play for Newcastle"  is a quote that many might challenge and does not add any weight to the postings.

All very interesting though and no doubt..................to be continued.

 

I think it does. He mentioned it as being a bad buy, I think it was a brilliant buy, he was massive, authoritive, agile and dominating.

Did you see him, if you disagree ?

 

Clearly Mick didn't see him. But then again, for some people Lee falls into the category that Shepherd does, ie because Lee sold MacDonald he couldn't do anything right. Thats all there is to it really, unfortunately selling MacDonald was proved to be the correct decision and when he left, Everton went on to enjoy 4 seasons of what would now be regular Champions League football, and leaving behind the players for Kendall that I named earlier, while our unhappy players were sold by McGarry and we went down for 6 years.

 

And unlike the crap in that toonarama piece, that is all fact.

 

Waiting for Mick to now be adult enough to give us factual answers to the questions he has been posed by myself, HTL and NE15.