Roeder, our performances & our results

[Howaythelads]

What will make Roeder any better at picking the best team when more players are fit when he can't do it now with the few he has?  He's not picking his strongets team on merit, he's pickling certain players who are not good enough, Carr is the best example of this.

 

The bloke doesn't know what he's doing and that isn't going to change now, he is what he is.

 

 

If they aren't good enough, don't pick them to play but he's actually pickling them?  Does he think that this will preserve them for later on in the season when injuries will no doubt mean their sub standard abilities are required or is it some kind of unpleasant deterrent at playing poorly. 

 

The point isn't that he's picking players who aren't good enough it's that he thinks they are good enough.

 

Oh!  I agree with that point.  It was the idea that Roeder is actually pickling players that aren't good enough (i.e. preserving them in vinegar or brine) that was giving me problems.

 

I don't rate Roeder in the slightest bit as a manager.  I think his tactical awareness, ability to handle pressure, team selection, handling of the media and all round submissive personality are major weaknesses. 

 

I've said it before on here.  I firmly believe that, had we appointed Roeder after dismissing Sir Bobby Robson, and, then, hired Souness when it all went wrong (and it would have gone just as wrong if you ask me), we'd be in no worse a position as we are right now.  Keep in mind also that I think that Graeme Souness as a top flight manager is dogshit.

 

An interesting point but we'll never know. Souness is dogshit as a manager, not just a top flight manager, how any club could contemplate offering this w****** another job is beyond me.

 

We'll only go so far with Roeder imo and that won't be as far as I want the club to go. However, I don't think we can get rid of him and go for a big name with a top track record until the club has regained the financial clout to back the man in the transfer market for top quality players. We need a period of stabilisation. The damage done by souness is absolutely immense and can't be underestimated imo.

[Guest Jangles]

Quite simply for me I have very little faith in Roeder picking the best side, he likes to accommodate players far too much for my liking.

 

Most people would agree he tinkered far too much with the side yesterday

Nobby should have remained right back as he's our best option

Milner should have played where he has all season

Taylor should have been centre back with A N Other.

 

Those decisions in time will cost him his job as I don't think he has enough about him to get us back in the top 4/5.

 

Summer 05 we were competing with the likes of chelsea and liverpool for top 4, they realised they needed a change of management to push on and handled it properly (Houlier out Benetiz in, Ranieri out Mourinho in). Many of us thought we needed the same but Freddie 'couldnt shoot bambi', so he poisoned him with his actions in the transfer market and comments to the press instead before finally putting him out of his misery a couple of months later. This put us a year behind the likes of chelsea and liverpool.

 

Appointing Souness meant we were moving backwards for 18months as he dismantled 'the best squad of players he'd ever worked with'

 

I dont think any money was available in the summer - if you look at the transfers out and money off the wage bill (ie shearer retired, owen insurance) then we just about break even in the summer. That basically meant this season was a right off.

 

We've stood still for 4 years whilst liverpool and chelsea have pushed on, and the likes of tottenham, bolton, etc have overtaken us.

 

I think Roeder is doing a reasonable job considering lack of funds and a crippling injury list. Some of his decisions have baffled/annoyed me, but I dont know whats happening in the background. Ie Dyer and milner playing against zulte and then missing an important league game, milner did look jaded against zulte so give him a rest, dyer maybe didnt feel right.

 

We're higher in the league than the team managed by the man who most folk wanted in the summer so he must be doing something right

[garth]

Perhaps you mean Shearer as in a presence and as a figurehead as he was pretty much a liability for the majority of last season.

 

Yep, as assistant manager too. I must admit, if Shearer came back in that role, I'd be far happier and a lot more optimistic.

 

Why? Anything in particular that makes you think he'd be any good at it?

 

His dispute with Gullit clearly shows he's the type of person who will put his own interests ahead of the club, so as far as I'm concerned I don't want him in any role within the club now he's not playing until he's proven himself elsewhere.

 

Spot on! totally agree with that.

[Guest Knightrider]

good post HTT.

 

 

i do feel that roeder is very suspect tactically, but i also feel he is the person we needed to take over from souness, and i also believe he is the man we need to steady the ship as it were, at this moment in time.

 

he knows all about the club and how it works, and i believe he wil have us top 8 while he is here.

 

 

he gets my vote to carry on next season, simply because i believe he will not waste £ and he will have us in a stable position.

 

i would like to think that we will be lookng to move him on after next season however and getting a top manager in to take us to the next level, which i do not beleive glenn is capable of doing.

 

I'm not sure he's the right man in the long term, but he has limited resources with which to work, expectations need to be adjusted accordingly. Over the short term he is doing a reasonable job of stabilising the club after the debacle of souness.

 

I don't agree with his team selection yesterday but he made changes that he thought were required. You may think he put out a better side last Thursday but that would be wrong imo. We were pretty much outplayed last Thursday by a bunch of part-timers and in fact I don't recall the last time we controlled a game and won it.  Changes had to be made regardless of any further injury problems he may have faced and I don't think he knows what his best team is, if there is a best team. It could be "horses for courses."

 

Agreed, BTW I wasn't having a dig earlier or of fishing. Also agree with you that just because Roeder plays certain players it doesn't mean he rates them or thinks they can do a job for us long-term, I'm sure if he could, he'd change most of the squad and get rid of the Carrs, Brambles and Ramages.

[Mick]

 

Agreed, BTW I wasn't having a dig earlier or of fishing. Also agree with you that just because Roeder plays certain players it doesn't mean he rates them or thinks they can do a job for us long-term, I'm sure if he could, he'd change most of the squad and get rid of the Carrs, Brambles and Ramages.

 

Roeder has had the chance to drop players before and hasn't taken it, the players he normally drops are the easy targets, those unlikely to complain.  He had the chance to drop Carr the last time he returned from injury but instead of dropping him he found a place for him on the left side of defence against Fulham, look what happened during that game.  Roeder even moaned when Carr got injured while away with the Irish, most of us celebrated.

 

He wouldn't play them if he didn't rate them, he does have options but doesn't use them, they may be limited options but he's got them.

[Northern Monkey]

Roeder doesn't know who the players are that are good enough, is tactically woeful, and is incapable fo seeing the gaping flaws in our team.

[Mick]

In response to the thread title, not good enough, any of them.

 

Are the people defending him the same ones who defended Souness?

 

Roeder has only one thing going for him to make him that little bit better, he's not a horrible bastard, the rest is much of the same.

[Newcastle Fan]

In response to the thread title, not good enough, any of them.

 

Are the people defending him the same ones who defended Souness?

 

Roeder has only one thing going for him to make him that little bit better, he's not a horrible b******, the rest is much of the same.

 

Suprised to say that most people i know are 

 

Roeder is good,but not good enough,the problem is we are stuck somewhere between Big club and Mid table club,so i think we should aim higher,Roeder ambition is simple,keep the club away from the relegation zone,he is not the manager that will win us anything (well,no one is),or at least lead us into the top 5..he will simply keep us as a mid table team,thats why we should change him as soon as possible,unless we are happy being a mid table side..

[Guest BooBoo]

If NUFC have any notion of establishing themselves in the top 6 then Roeder must go in the summer. He's clueless!

[Newcastle Fan]

If NUFC have any notion of establishing themselves in the top 6 then Roeder must go in the summer. He's clueless!

 

The problem is they don't..he will propbly be offred a new contract come the end of next season

 

the only way to fire a manager here is when he screws up REALLY bad like what Souness did..

[Mick]

Roeder is as bad a manager as Souness was while here, we're as bad as we were under him but without the player/manager fall-outs.

[Guest Knightrider]

In response to the thread title, not good enough, any of them.

 

Are the people defending him the same ones who defended Souness?

 

Roeder has only one thing going for him to make him that little bit better, he's not a horrible bastard, the rest is much of the same.

 

Guilty

 

Seriously, I don't see many defending him, or even praising him, just being open minded and fair. I think most recognise his limitations and are on record saying he's average and not the right man for us long-term.

 

I disagree regarding the differences between him and Souness BTW, I think he's different on many levels and a vast improvement, although that's hardly anything to shout about given just how crap Souness was as a manager.

 

Since Roeder took over:

 

Form - top 6 form bassed on points won in that time

 

Given all the crap, like injuries, not strenthening the defence, pissing about in the transfer market, the sore defeats, the shit performances, that's not a bad record post-Souness mess, I don't think many would be able to improve on that.

 

Contrast O'Neill (the choice of many) and Villa, who have performed near enough the same under him, as they did under O'Leary, who was to them what Souness was to us. Makes you think like.

 

This season hasn't been good enough and just isn't acceptable of course in the grande scheme of things, but by the same token, it was to be expected post Souness, especially with our squad and injuries, I actually thought we'd do much worse pre-season and during the season so he's overachieved and surpassed my expections in that sense, and that is why I'm cutting him some slack and being lenient or as I like to think, fair. He deserves it, as an honest man doing an honest job, a very very tough job he is ille equipped to do, a job he should never have been giving in the first place.

 

I think too many people are quick to jump on his back here and are in danger of using Roeder as a punchbag or a scapegoat, quite a few think if we sack him, we'll just get in a better manager and things will be honkey dory, incredibly.

 

Long-term, if this club is to go anywhere, then of course he has to go. But for the club to go anywhere, action needs to be taken not at his door, but at the board's door, first - it can only happen in that order. In short, it doesn't matter whether Roeder is manager or not, not in the state the club is in at the moment.

 

I refuse to get pissed off with him or become bitter and twisted just because he said something daft in the paper I didn't like, or made a daft substitution, or chose the wrong team, etc. I'm saving all that up for the real culprits behind our demise, not someone handicapped who despite this is doing the best he can. Roeder is a good honest man, who deserves our patience, our respect and our forgiveness for th shite that has been served up this season.

 

IMO opinion.

[Mick]

In response to the thread title, not good enough, any of them.

 

Are the people defending him the same ones who defended Souness?

 

Roeder has only one thing going for him to make him that little bit better, he's not a horrible b******, the rest is much of the same.

 

Guilty

 

Seriously, I don't see many defending him, or even praising him, just being open minded and fair. I think most recognise his limitations and are on record saying he's average and not the right man for us long-term.

 

I disagree regarding the differences between him and Souness BTW, I think he's different on many levels and a vast improvement, although that's hardly anything to shout about given just how crap Souness was as a manager.

 

Since Roeder took over:

 

Form - top 6 form bassed on points won in that time

 

Given all the crap, like injuries, not strenthening the defence, pissing about in the transfer market, the sore defeats, the s*** performances, that's not a bad record post-Souness mess, I don't think many would be able to improve on that.

 

Contrast O'Neill (the choice of many) and Villa, who have performed near enough the same under him, as they did under O'Leary, who was to them what Souness was to us. Makes you think like.

 

This season hasn't been good enough and just isn't acceptable of course in the grande scheme of things, but by the same token, it was to be expected post Souness, especially with our squad and injuries, I actually thought we'd do much worse pre-season and during the season so he's overachieved and surpassed my expections in that sense, and that is why I'm cutting him some slack and being lenient or as I like to think, fair. He deserves it, as an honest man doing an honest job, a very very tough job he is ille equipped to do, a job he should never have been giving in the first place.

 

I think too many people are quick to jump on his back here and are in danger of using Roeder as a punchbag or a scapegoat, quite a few think if we sack him, we'll just get in a better manager and things will be honkey dory, incredibly.

 

Long-term, if this club is to go anywhere, then of course he has to go. But for the club to go anywhere, action needs to be taken not at his door, but at the board's door, first - it can only happen in that order. In short, it doesn't matter whether Roeder is manager or not, not in the state the club is in at the moment.

 

I refuse to get pissed off with him or become bitter and twisted just because he said something daft in the paper I didn't like, or made a daft substitution, or chose the wrong team, etc. I'm saving all that up for the real culprits behind our demise, not someone handicapped who despite this is doing the best he can. Roeder is a good honest man, who deserves our patience, our respect and our forgiveness for th s**** that has been served up this season.

 

IMO opinion.

 

The question wasn't really to have a go at anybody, I'm just interested if it's the same people, do some people have more tolerance towards the manager?

 

We're all different and want/expect different things.

 

I don't know which side is right on this and we'll only know through time although I think I'm right.

[Northern Monkey]

Roeder won't be a success here. Mainly because he is not a very good manager at all.

 

He'll try to play shite like Carr, Ameobi, etc, rather than replace them. His transfer policy is random, and tactically, he's starting to make Souness look like he had a clue, which is a worry.

[Guest Knightrider]

In response to the thread title, not good enough, any of them.

 

Are the people defending him the same ones who defended Souness?

 

Roeder has only one thing going for him to make him that little bit better, he's not a horrible b******, the rest is much of the same.

 

Guilty

 

Seriously, I don't see many defending him, or even praising him, just being open minded and fair. I think most recognise his limitations and are on record saying he's average and not the right man for us long-term.

 

I disagree regarding the differences between him and Souness BTW, I think he's different on many levels and a vast improvement, although that's hardly anything to shout about given just how crap Souness was as a manager.

 

Since Roeder took over:

 

Form - top 6 form bassed on points won in that time

 

Given all the crap, like injuries, not strenthening the defence, pissing about in the transfer market, the sore defeats, the s*** performances, that's not a bad record post-Souness mess, I don't think many would be able to improve on that.

 

Contrast O'Neill (the choice of many) and Villa, who have performed near enough the same under him, as they did under O'Leary, who was to them what Souness was to us. Makes you think like.

 

This season hasn't been good enough and just isn't acceptable of course in the grande scheme of things, but by the same token, it was to be expected post Souness, especially with our squad and injuries, I actually thought we'd do much worse pre-season and during the season so he's overachieved and surpassed my expections in that sense, and that is why I'm cutting him some slack and being lenient or as I like to think, fair. He deserves it, as an honest man doing an honest job, a very very tough job he is ille equipped to do, a job he should never have been giving in the first place.

 

I think too many people are quick to jump on his back here and are in danger of using Roeder as a punchbag or a scapegoat, quite a few think if we sack him, we'll just get in a better manager and things will be honkey dory, incredibly.

 

Long-term, if this club is to go anywhere, then of course he has to go. But for the club to go anywhere, action needs to be taken not at his door, but at the board's door, first - it can only happen in that order. In short, it doesn't matter whether Roeder is manager or not, not in the state the club is in at the moment.

 

I refuse to get pissed off with him or become bitter and twisted just because he said something daft in the paper I didn't like, or made a daft substitution, or chose the wrong team, etc. I'm saving all that up for the real culprits behind our demise, not someone handicapped who despite this is doing the best he can. Roeder is a good honest man, who deserves our patience, our respect and our forgiveness for th s**** that has been served up this season.

 

IMO opinion.

 

The question wasn't really to have a go at anybody, I'm just interested if it's the same people, do some people have more tolerance towards the manager?

 

We're all different and want/expect different things.

 

I don't know which side is right on this and we'll only know through time although I think I'm right.

 

I think I have a high tolerance of medicority like, I always, regardless of the manager, give them two years, same with players, in general anyway. Don't know why that is but that's me.

[Mr Logic]

You still think your opening post is a good assessment HTT?

 

The team performance at AZ tonight was woeful, and as the majority of players have been seen to perform on other occasions it has to reflect on Roeders instructions. His tactical ineptitude has been exposed all too frequently this season. His hesitancy to change a poor shape, and then dubious substitutions when he does change something are quite obvious.

 

Van Gaal is not a man I admire, but he does know his football, he destroyed Roeder tonight and Roeder had no answer.

 

Nice guy or not, Roeder is not the man for Newcastle.

[Guest Knightrider]

You still think your opening post is a good assessment HTT?

 

The team performance at AZ tonight was woeful, and as the majority of players have been seen to perform on other occasions it has to reflect on Roeders instructions. His tactical ineptitude has been exposed all too frequently this season. His hesitancy to change a poor shape, and then dubious substitutions when he does change something are quite obvious.

 

Van Gaal is not a man I admire, but he does know his football, he destroyed Roeder tonight and Roeder had no answer.

 

Nice guy or not, Roeder is not the man for Newcastle.

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=37402.0

 

You tell me?