Improving on a shoestring - Can it be done?

[Guest Bellers]

It isn't rocket science really but the way our club bungle on you would.

 

Without harping on about Roeder/ Shepherd too much our back room staff need a good shuffle. Pearson is doing a half decent job, but going on our performances on the field the specialised staff could do with being replaced. The idea of a director of football is intresting. Indipendant managers seem to find them a big pain in the arse, but others seem to make good use of them. So I guess that could be an option depending on Roeder. Aswell as this our scouting system is dire and the foundations of a superior system need to be planted sooner rather than later.

 

Already without changing the team you've got improved coaches and the foundations of a scouting system to build on. Compansation would be an issue with the chopping and changing of the staff, but doubt it would hardly be a patch on the cost of new playing staff.

 

I really think we need a good clean out in terms of player. If I was given a significant amount of time to replace those who had been sold the following would be out the door to the highest bidder. If not they would be shipped out over a period of time.

 

Harper - Average keeper who should always be third choice to Given and Krul.

Ramage - Awful, not worth the wages.

Bramble - Potentially brilliant but will never cut out the mistakes.

Moore - Does the lad ever get off the bus?

Carr - Possibly the worst right back in the premiership.

Babayaro- Injury prone, get him off the way bill.

Patterson - See Ramage.

Duff - Doesn't seem bothered, done nothing to make him worth keeping.

Sibierski - No quality at all.

 

The rest of the lads would be spare, for now at least. My first port of call would be the bosman market. The likes of Campbell and Kanu are quick fixes but are most definetly worth offering a contract to, especially if the back room lads can install the hunger they once had. Can't be any worse than the shower of shit listed above can they?

 

As well as this I'd be looking at young quality in the football league. people turn their noses up but if their are some real diamonds in the rough to be found.

 

For a short time at least I'd leave the foreign market. Far too many gambles have been taken and lost with what should be quality players.

 

Now once a squad of players has been established tactics need to be looked at and improved. If Parker wanted to keep the arm band that badly he needs to sit and hold, nothing else. The defence need to learn when to step up, when to sit deep and generally work as a unit. I'd also scrap the dull ineffective long ball game we seem to pin our hopes on for a short, sharp passing games, bringing the wingers into play would also be a key issue. The thing is this is all basic stuff that can be learned on the training ground, it's not rocket science.

 

Obviously all of this could not be achieved in one transfer window, but we need to establish a long term plan to get the best out of our team. Having said that I'm not a manger, who am I to talk?

[indi]

Baggio has put forward a very strong argument for a DoF/coach partnership instead of an 'old style' manager.  As someone who supports a club that has run with both options and having seen the best and worst of each (Nicholson/Gross > Comolli/Pleat), I totally agree with what Baggio is saying, I would dread the option of Spurs going back to the manager option, it is too big a job for just one man unless that one man gets the right staff around him in all the right places.

 

But under Comolli's reign we are beginning to see what a good DoF can bring to the party.  Berbatov signed for Spurs in spite of being wanted by Manchester Utd, Arsenal wanted Assou-Ekotto and Zokora was wanted by both of those clubs.  Berbatov said that he resisted the temptation to sign for the Mancs as Comolli had been talking to him for over 2 years and Zokora first spoke to him when Comolli was still with Arsenal.  It's that attention to detail which I personally think is impossible to maintain without a DoF.

 

Ironically, Comolli made his name attracting youngsters to Arsenal and that is his strength.  Since he joined Spurs he's recruited Tomas Pekhart, Dorian Dervite, Dean Parrett, Adam Smith, Takura Mtandari, Alex Olsen and (maybe) most importantly, Adel Taarabt who was wanted by just about every major club in Europe and in the end came down a choice of Barcelona and Spurs.  As Comolli had been talking to him for 5 years since he was 12, he opted for us.  Comolli reckons if he keeps his feet on the ground, he could be as good as Zidane and openly admits Taarabt is his best signing.  Maybe some will not live up to expectations but what those 7 youngsters have cost is roughly equal to what Berbatov cost. 

 

I don't believe that those players could have all been signed by a single club operating a manager only system, it would have been impossible to have maintained the contact with the kids whilst they were developing .  I very much agree with Baggio, a good, knowledgeable DoF is the logical way forward in the modern game as it is now.

 

Peter Taylor did a similar job for Brian Clough. On the basis that 2 sets of eyes are better than one, of course that is correct, but the principle is nothing new. All you are describing is a scout. Bill Shankly did it himself, with his scouting staff. So does Alex Ferguson, and his scouting staff, nowadays, having nurtured a good percentage of the players who have played a major part in the clubs success.  At the end of the day, it isn't the system that works, but the ability of the person doing the scouting, and the manager when they start to get near to the first team. If everyone employed a "DOF", could everyone be successful ? Of course not.

 

It seems you have a good chief scout, mind, although we will see if he can find them again for another club.

 

 

 

I think there's quite a bit more to it than that. It's not about appointing a Director of Football or a Chief Scout, or whatever you want to call them, it's about recognising the principle of specialisation and the value of having an expert doing something that they're good at rather than a jack of all trades doing a whole load of stuff they're ok at. What teams like Spurs have done is to understand that times have changed, the days of a manager and a handful of his mates running the playing side of a club are over, and rightly so. What is needed now is a team of experts, a number of people who really know what they are doing, all working together. Yeah the manager is the overall boss, but the people who he works with need to be of a higher quality, and will therefore enjoy a higher stature, than they did in the old days. It's not just Spurs, lots of clubs have a large backroom staff made up of people who have a certain amount of autonomy to do what they want, due to the club having genuine faith in their ability to do the job. We, however, are still in the stone age by comparison and that's got to change.

[Martin Lol]

Baggio has put forward a very strong argument for a DoF/coach partnership instead of an 'old style' manager.  As someone who supports a club that has run with both options and having seen the best and worst of each (Nicholson/Gross > Comolli/Pleat), I totally agree with what Baggio is saying, I would dread the option of Spurs going back to the manager option, it is too big a job for just one man unless that one man gets the right staff around him in all the right places.

 

But under Comolli's reign we are beginning to see what a good DoF can bring to the party.  Berbatov signed for Spurs in spite of being wanted by Manchester Utd, Arsenal wanted Assou-Ekotto and Zokora was wanted by both of those clubs.  Berbatov said that he resisted the temptation to sign for the Mancs as Comolli had been talking to him for over 2 years and Zokora first spoke to him when Comolli was still with Arsenal.  It's that attention to detail which I personally think is impossible to maintain without a DoF.

 

Ironically, Comolli made his name attracting youngsters to Arsenal and that is his strength.  Since he joined Spurs he's recruited Tomas Pekhart, Dorian Dervite, Dean Parrett, Adam Smith, Takura Mtandari, Alex Olsen and (maybe) most importantly, Adel Taarabt who was wanted by just about every major club in Europe and in the end came down a choice of Barcelona and Spurs.  As Comolli had been talking to him for 5 years since he was 12, he opted for us.  Comolli reckons if he keeps his feet on the ground, he could be as good as Zidane and openly admits Taarabt is his best signing.  Maybe some will not live up to expectations but what those 7 youngsters have cost is roughly equal to what Berbatov cost. 

 

I don't believe that those players could have all been signed by a single club operating a manager only system, it would have been impossible to have maintained the contact with the kids whilst they were developing .  I very much agree with Baggio, a good, knowledgeable DoF is the logical way forward in the modern game as it is now.

 

Peter Taylor did a similar job for Brian Clough. On the basis that 2 sets of eyes are better than one, of course that is correct, but the principle is nothing new. All you are describing is a scout. Bill Shankly did it himself, with his scouting staff. So does Alex Ferguson, and his scouting staff, nowadays, having nurtured a good percentage of the players who have played a major part in the clubs success.  At the end of the day, it isn't the system that works, but the ability of the person doing the scouting, and the manager when they start to get near to the first team. If everyone employed a "DOF", could everyone be successful ? Of course not.

 

It seems you have a good chief scout, mind, although we will see if he can find them again for another club.

 

 

 

I think there's quite a bit more to it than that. It's not about appointing a Director of Football or a Chief Scout, or whatever you want to call them, it's about recognising the principle of specialisation and the value of having an expert doing something that they're good at rather than a jack of all trades doing a whole load of stuff they're ok at. What teams like Spurs have done is to understand that times have changed, the days of a manager and a handful of his mates running the playing side of a club are over, and rightly so. What is needed now is a team of experts, a number of people who really know what they are doing, all working together. Yeah the manager is the overall boss, but the people who he works with need to be of a higher quality, and will therefore enjoy a higher stature, than they did in the old days. It's not just Spurs, lots of clubs have a large backroom staff made up of people who have a certain amount of autonomy to do what they want, due to the club having genuine faith in their ability to do the job. We, however, are still in the stone age by comparison and that's got to change.

 

You're right, there's a lot more to it than just having the right scouting setup.  Even if the scouting network is top notch and you find a good youngster, the likelihood of you being the only club to have seen him is hugely unlikely.  You are going to be in competition with other clubs, probably a lot of other clubs, some of which will have bigger reputations than yours.  Without being an expert, all the indications seem to be that constant contact is a major contributor in helping sign a player.  Arnesen said at a Spurs forum soon after he arrived that went to Brazil to Ronaldo and his parents 3 or 4 times a year for 5 years before signing him for PSV.  Comolli was in almost weekly contact for a year with Henry before he signed for Arsenal.

 

Even then it still does't always work out.  A young Scandanavian kid signed for Liverpool about 3 weeks ago and Comolli was gutted.  He thought he was all but signed for Spurs and he says that there is no doubt in his mind he will be a top class goalkeeper.  But that's what happens, you win some, you lose some, but you try to give yourself an edge to be ahead of the rest.

 

With the greatest of respect NE5, I'm old enough to remember the awesome partnership that Peter Taylor and Brian Clough were before the bust up, but I still don't think that would be enough today.  We're not now looking at just young English talent, it's now worldwide talent and all the clubs are now competing with the cream of Europe.  Clough and Taylor were hugely successful in their era but they would have to change from the method used then to compete successfully now (imo).

[Incognito]

Even Cloughie and Taylor squandered alot of money at the time on total failures,i.e Ian Wallace and Justin Fashanu who cost in the region of 2 mill between them which was an awful lot in late 70's-early 60's MJ.

[Martin Lol]

Even Cloughie and Taylor squandered alot of money at the time on total failures,i.e Ian Wallace and Justin Fashanu who cost in the region of 2 mill between them which was an awful lot in late 70's-early 60's MJ.

 

Nobody gets it right all the time and I never suggested for a minute that they had.  Their success, however, in those days could easily be compared with Wenger, who is as successful as anyone, and even he spunked £10m on Jeffers.

[Incognito]

Not to mention Cygan,Luzhny,Tavlaridis.

[Dave]

Love how people always reckon Adebayor to be a 'find' when he cost £7m.

[Martin Lol]

Keep them coming, you're cheering me up no end! :lol:

 

It's only when I think of Toure for £150k I start to get depressed which gets worse when I remember it was Comolli who was responsible for that!

[Dave]

Wenger's still a genius imo though.

[Martin Lol]

Love how people always reckon Adebayor to be a 'find' when he cost £7m.

 

Almost as cheap, relatively speaking, as Walcott for £12m!!

 

But when comparing him to Henry for £10m............... it's not so much what they cost as what you get for your money.

[Parky]

Even Cloughie and Taylor squandered alot of money at the time on total failures,i.e Ian Wallace and Justin Fashanu who cost in the region of 2 mill between them which was an awful lot in late 70's-early 60's MJ.

 

John Robertson did a fair bit of the scouting as well as some coaching. Yes the player Cloughie used to always moan at but secretly knew was great little (slightly tubby) winger. The player he hated was Martin O'Neill.

[Parky]

Love how people always reckon Adebayor to be a 'find' when he cost £7m.

 

Almost as cheap, relatively speaking, as Walcott for £12m!!

 

But when comparing him to Henry for £10m............... it's not so much what they cost as what you get for your money.

 

They say normally 1 in 10 of these finds break into the first team. At Arsenal is more like 1 in 5. That is the differance.

[brummie]

Even Cloughie and Taylor squandered alot of money at the time on total failures,i.e Ian Wallace and Justin Fashanu who cost in the region of 2 mill between them which was an awful lot in late 70's-early 60's MJ.

 

Nobody gets it right all the time and I never suggested for a minute that they had.  Their success, however, in those days could easily be compared with Wenger, who is as successful as anyone, and even he spunked £10m on Jeffers.

 

Wenger's a legendary manager, but nobody will ever come close to matching what Brian Clough achieved with Forest. Mainly because these days taking an absolute nothing of a club like Forest and winning championships and european cups is actually impossible.

 

Another sad fact that we might reflect on whilst we're all sat in our armchairs watching Richard Keys salivate over some Chelsea - Man United wankfest.

[Parky]

Even Cloughie and Taylor squandered alot of money at the time on total failures,i.e Ian Wallace and Justin Fashanu who cost in the region of 2 mill between them which was an awful lot in late 70's-early 60's MJ.

 

Nobody gets it right all the time and I never suggested for a minute that they had.  Their success, however, in those days could easily be compared with Wenger, who is as successful as anyone, and even he spunked £10m on Jeffers.

 

Wenger's a legendary manager, but nobody will ever come close to matching what Brian Clough achieved with Forest. Mainly because these days taking an absolute nothing of a club like Forest and winning championships and european cups is actually impossible.

 

Another sad fact that we might reflect on whilst we're all sat in our armchairs watching Richard Keys salivate over some Chelsea - Man United wankfest.

 

Cloughie was special. Top psychologist in the Wenger/Mourinho mould. Would have been interesting to see him up agains the current crop.

[madras]

Even Cloughie and Taylor squandered alot of money at the time on total failures,i.e Ian Wallace and Justin Fashanu who cost in the region of 2 mill between them which was an awful lot in late 70's-early 60's MJ.

 

Nobody gets it right all the time and I never suggested for a minute that they had.  Their success, however, in those days could easily be compared with Wenger, who is as successful as anyone, and even he spunked £10m on Jeffers.

 

Wenger's a legendary manager, but nobody will ever come close to matching what Brian Clough achieved with Forest. Mainly because these days taking an absolute nothing of a club like Forest and winning championships and european cups is actually impossible.

 

Another sad fact that we might reflect on whilst we're all sat in our armchairs watching Richard Keys salivate over some Chelsea - Man United wankfest.

nobody will ever come close eh ?...didn't watford with even fewer resources come runners up with graham turnip ?

[brummie]

Even Cloughie and Taylor squandered alot of money at the time on total failures,i.e Ian Wallace and Justin Fashanu who cost in the region of 2 mill between them which was an awful lot in late 70's-early 60's MJ.

 

Nobody gets it right all the time and I never suggested for a minute that they had.  Their success, however, in those days could easily be compared with Wenger, who is as successful as anyone, and even he spunked £10m on Jeffers.

 

Wenger's a legendary manager, but nobody will ever come close to matching what Brian Clough achieved with Forest. Mainly because these days taking an absolute nothing of a club like Forest and winning championships and european cups is actually impossible.

 

Another sad fact that we might reflect on whilst we're all sat in our armchairs watching Richard Keys salivate over some Chelsea - Man United wankfest.

nobody will ever come close eh ?...didn't watford with even fewer resources come runners up with graham turnip ?

 

Turnip? I think you'll find that is Sir Graham Taylor 

 

Watford's achievements were absolutely nothing compared to Forest. Winning the league then the European Cup twice with a club which, at that time, would compare with someone like Stoke City today is an absolutely huge achievement

 

Watford didn't come even remotely close.

[madras]

Even Cloughie and Taylor squandered alot of money at the time on total failures,i.e Ian Wallace and Justin Fashanu who cost in the region of 2 mill between them which was an awful lot in late 70's-early 60's MJ.

 

Nobody gets it right all the time and I never suggested for a minute that they had.  Their success, however, in those days could easily be compared with Wenger, who is as successful as anyone, and even he spunked £10m on Jeffers.

 

Wenger's a legendary manager, but nobody will ever come close to matching what Brian Clough achieved with Forest. Mainly because these days taking an absolute nothing of a club like Forest and winning championships and european cups is actually impossible.

 

Another sad fact that we might reflect on whilst we're all sat in our armchairs watching Richard Keys salivate over some Chelsea - Man United wankfest.

nobody will ever come close eh ?...didn't watford with even fewer resources come runners up with graham turnip ?

 

Turnip? I think you'll find that is Sir Graham Taylor ;-)

 

Watford's achievements were absolutely nothing compared to Forest. Winning the league then the European Cup twice with a club which, at that time, would compare with someone like Stoke City today is an absolutely huge achievement

 

Watford didn't come even remotely close.

had watford won the league..let's face it runners up is close,george reilly and luther blissett would have rampaged over europe,dominated a la forest but without an alcaholic at the helm wouldn't have took the dive forest did...had watford won the championship that year christiano ronaldo and sammy eto'o would now be rampaging around vicarage road....thus are the vagaries of football

[brummie]

Even Cloughie and Taylor squandered alot of money at the time on total failures,i.e Ian Wallace and Justin Fashanu who cost in the region of 2 mill between them which was an awful lot in late 70's-early 60's MJ.

 

Nobody gets it right all the time and I never suggested for a minute that they had.  Their success, however, in those days could easily be compared with Wenger, who is as successful as anyone, and even he spunked £10m on Jeffers.

 

Wenger's a legendary manager, but nobody will ever come close to matching what Brian Clough achieved with Forest. Mainly because these days taking an absolute nothing of a club like Forest and winning championships and european cups is actually impossible.

 

Another sad fact that we might reflect on whilst we're all sat in our armchairs watching Richard Keys salivate over some Chelsea - Man United wankfest.

nobody will ever come close eh ?...didn't watford with even fewer resources come runners up with graham turnip ?

 

Turnip? I think you'll find that is Sir Graham Taylor ;-)

 

Watford's achievements were absolutely nothing compared to Forest. Winning the league then the European Cup twice with a club which, at that time, would compare with someone like Stoke City today is an absolutely huge achievement

 

Watford didn't come even remotely close.

had watford won the league..let's face it runners up is close,george reilly and luther blissett would have rampaged over europe,dominated a la forest but without an alcaholic at the helm wouldn't have took the dive forest did...had watford won the championship that year christiano ronaldo and sammy eto'o would now be rampaging around vicarage road....thus are the vagaries of football

 

Had they. But they didn't. Forest did.

[madras]

Even Cloughie and Taylor squandered alot of money at the time on total failures,i.e Ian Wallace and Justin Fashanu who cost in the region of 2 mill between them which was an awful lot in late 70's-early 60's MJ.

 

Nobody gets it right all the time and I never suggested for a minute that they had.  Their success, however, in those days could easily be compared with Wenger, who is as successful as anyone, and even he spunked £10m on Jeffers.

 

Wenger's a legendary manager, but nobody will ever come close to matching what Brian Clough achieved with Forest. Mainly because these days taking an absolute nothing of a club like Forest and winning championships and european cups is actually impossible.

 

Another sad fact that we might reflect on whilst we're all sat in our armchairs watching Richard Keys salivate over some Chelsea - Man United wankfest.

nobody will ever come close eh ?...didn't watford with even fewer resources come runners up with graham turnip ?

 

Turnip? I think you'll find that is Sir Graham Taylor ;-)

 

Watford's achievements were absolutely nothing compared to Forest. Winning the league then the European Cup twice with a club which, at that time, would compare with someone like Stoke City today is an absolutely huge achievement

 

Watford didn't come even remotely close.

had watford won the league..let's face it runners up is close,george reilly and luther blissett would have rampaged over europe,dominated a la forest but without an alcaholic at the helm wouldn't have took the dive forest did...had watford won the championship that year christiano ronaldo and sammy eto'o would now be rampaging around vicarage road....thus are the vagaries of football

 

Had they. But they didn't. Forest did.

you said "close" not "replicated"

[Martin Lol]

Even Cloughie and Taylor squandered alot of money at the time on total failures,i.e Ian Wallace and Justin Fashanu who cost in the region of 2 mill between them which was an awful lot in late 70's-early 60's MJ.

 

Nobody gets it right all the time and I never suggested for a minute that they had.  Their success, however, in those days could easily be compared with Wenger, who is as successful as anyone, and even he spunked £10m on Jeffers.

 

Wenger's a legendary manager, but nobody will ever come close to matching what Brian Clough achieved with Forest. Mainly because these days taking an absolute nothing of a club like Forest and winning championships and european cups is actually impossible.

 

Another sad fact that we might reflect on whilst we're all sat in our armchairs watching Richard Keys salivate over some Chelsea - Man United wankfest.

 

Cloughie was special. Top psychologist in the Wenger/Mourinho mould. Would have been interesting to see him up agains the current crop.

 

I think Clough would have been too sharp for them tbh.

 

Every time they turned up at WHL John Robertson looked about 2 stone overweight and McGovern never used to do anything.............. apart from leading them to another 3-0 win!  We had far better players, Forest had the far better team.  That was what Cloughie gave them.  Sad to see them where they are now tbh.

[brummie]

Even Cloughie and Taylor squandered alot of money at the time on total failures,i.e Ian Wallace and Justin Fashanu who cost in the region of 2 mill between them which was an awful lot in late 70's-early 60's MJ.

 

Nobody gets it right all the time and I never suggested for a minute that they had.  Their success, however, in those days could easily be compared with Wenger, who is as successful as anyone, and even he spunked £10m on Jeffers.

 

Wenger's a legendary manager, but nobody will ever come close to matching what Brian Clough achieved with Forest. Mainly because these days taking an absolute nothing of a club like Forest and winning championships and european cups is actually impossible.

 

Another sad fact that we might reflect on whilst we're all sat in our armchairs watching Richard Keys salivate over some Chelsea - Man United wankfest.

nobody will ever come close eh ?...didn't watford with even fewer resources come runners up with graham turnip ?

 

Turnip? I think you'll find that is Sir Graham Taylor ;-)

 

Watford's achievements were absolutely nothing compared to Forest. Winning the league then the European Cup twice with a club which, at that time, would compare with someone like Stoke City today is an absolutely huge achievement

 

Watford didn't come even remotely close.

had watford won the league..let's face it runners up is close,george reilly and luther blissett would have rampaged over europe,dominated a la forest but without an alcaholic at the helm wouldn't have took the dive forest did...had watford won the championship that year christiano ronaldo and sammy eto'o would now be rampaging around vicarage road....thus are the vagaries of football

 

Had they. But they didn't. Forest did.

you said "close" not "replicated"

 

True, but what Watford achieved wasn't even remotely close to what Forest achieved.

[madras]

Even Cloughie and Taylor squandered alot of money at the time on total failures,i.e Ian Wallace and Justin Fashanu who cost in the region of 2 mill between them which was an awful lot in late 70's-early 60's MJ.

 

Nobody gets it right all the time and I never suggested for a minute that they had.  Their success, however, in those days could easily be compared with Wenger, who is as successful as anyone, and even he spunked £10m on Jeffers.

 

Wenger's a legendary manager, but nobody will ever come close to matching what Brian Clough achieved with Forest. Mainly because these days taking an absolute nothing of a club like Forest and winning championships and european cups is actually impossible.

 

Another sad fact that we might reflect on whilst we're all sat in our armchairs watching Richard Keys salivate over some Chelsea - Man United wankfest.

nobody will ever come close eh ?...didn't watford with even fewer resources come runners up with graham turnip ?

 

Turnip? I think you'll find that is Sir Graham Taylor ;-)

 

Watford's achievements were absolutely nothing compared to Forest. Winning the league then the European Cup twice with a club which, at that time, would compare with someone like Stoke City today is an absolutely huge achievement

 

Watford didn't come even remotely close.

had watford won the league..let's face it runners up is close,george reilly and luther blissett would have rampaged over europe,dominated a la forest but without an alcaholic at the helm wouldn't have took the dive forest did...had watford won the championship that year christiano ronaldo and sammy eto'o would now be rampaging around vicarage road....thus are the vagaries of football

 

Had they. But they didn't. Forest did.

you said "close" not "replicated"

 

True, but what Watford achieved wasn't even remotely close to what Forest achieved.

watford from fourth division to runners up with far fewer resousces has GOT  to be close to forest winning the euro cup ?

[NE5]

Baggio has put forward a very strong argument for a DoF/coach partnership instead of an 'old style' manager.  As someone who supports a club that has run with both options and having seen the best and worst of each (Nicholson/Gross > Comolli/Pleat), I totally agree with what Baggio is saying, I would dread the option of Spurs going back to the manager option, it is too big a job for just one man unless that one man gets the right staff around him in all the right places.

 

But under Comolli's reign we are beginning to see what a good DoF can bring to the party.  Berbatov signed for Spurs in spite of being wanted by Manchester Utd, Arsenal wanted Assou-Ekotto and Zokora was wanted by both of those clubs.  Berbatov said that he resisted the temptation to sign for the Mancs as Comolli had been talking to him for over 2 years and Zokora first spoke to him when Comolli was still with Arsenal.  It's that attention to detail which I personally think is impossible to maintain without a DoF.

 

Ironically, Comolli made his name attracting youngsters to Arsenal and that is his strength.  Since he joined Spurs he's recruited Tomas Pekhart, Dorian Dervite, Dean Parrett, Adam Smith, Takura Mtandari, Alex Olsen and (maybe) most importantly, Adel Taarabt who was wanted by just about every major club in Europe and in the end came down a choice of Barcelona and Spurs.  As Comolli had been talking to him for 5 years since he was 12, he opted for us.  Comolli reckons if he keeps his feet on the ground, he could be as good as Zidane and openly admits Taarabt is his best signing.  Maybe some will not live up to expectations but what those 7 youngsters have cost is roughly equal to what Berbatov cost. 

 

I don't believe that those players could have all been signed by a single club operating a manager only system, it would have been impossible to have maintained the contact with the kids whilst they were developing .  I very much agree with Baggio, a good, knowledgeable DoF is the logical way forward in the modern game as it is now.

 

Peter Taylor did a similar job for Brian Clough. On the basis that 2 sets of eyes are better than one, of course that is correct, but the principle is nothing new. All you are describing is a scout. Bill Shankly did it himself, with his scouting staff. So does Alex Ferguson, and his scouting staff, nowadays, having nurtured a good percentage of the players who have played a major part in the clubs success.  At the end of the day, it isn't the system that works, but the ability of the person doing the scouting, and the manager when they start to get near to the first team. If everyone employed a "DOF", could everyone be successful ? Of course not.

 

It seems you have a good chief scout, mind, although we will see if he can find them again for another club.

 

 

 

I think there's quite a bit more to it than that. It's not about appointing a Director of Football or a Chief Scout, or whatever you want to call them, it's about recognising the principle of specialisation and the value of having an expert doing something that they're good at rather than a jack of all trades doing a whole load of stuff they're ok at. What teams like Spurs have done is to understand that times have changed, the days of a manager and a handful of his mates running the playing side of a club are over, and rightly so. What is needed now is a team of experts, a number of people who really know what they are doing, all working together. Yeah the manager is the overall boss, but the people who he works with need to be of a higher quality, and will therefore enjoy a higher stature, than they did in the old days. It's not just Spurs, lots of clubs have a large backroom staff made up of people who have a certain amount of autonomy to do what they want, due to the club having genuine faith in their ability to do the job. We, however, are still in the stone age by comparison and that's got to change.

 

I agree with having an expert in the field, that is obvious, but I don't really agree that it didn't happen before mate. A larger backroom staff - maybe - but it still doesn't make them BETTER. How many times did we take the piss out of Souness and his team of lackeys ? HE had confidence in his own staff, if Micheal Robinson recommended Luque to him, does that make him Souness "trusted" scout ? We know he was his mate, but surely he trusted him if this is true ?

 

Spotting talented footballers before they hit the bit time is a gift, most people spot one or two good players at some stage, but the ones who can do it on a regular basis are worth their weight in gold. They have always been around.

 

There was a time Burnley had possibly the top scouting network in the country, they found quite a lot of lads in the North East. They sold them though, but they must have had a scout or two with a good eye.

 

 

[Martin Lol]

Baggio has put forward a very strong argument for a DoF/coach partnership instead of an 'old style' manager.  As someone who supports a club that has run with both options and having seen the best and worst of each (Nicholson/Gross > Comolli/Pleat), I totally agree with what Baggio is saying, I would dread the option of Spurs going back to the manager option, it is too big a job for just one man unless that one man gets the right staff around him in all the right places.

 

But under Comolli's reign we are beginning to see what a good DoF can bring to the party.  Berbatov signed for Spurs in spite of being wanted by Manchester Utd, Arsenal wanted Assou-Ekotto and Zokora was wanted by both of those clubs.  Berbatov said that he resisted the temptation to sign for the Mancs as Comolli had been talking to him for over 2 years and Zokora first spoke to him when Comolli was still with Arsenal.  It's that attention to detail which I personally think is impossible to maintain without a DoF.

 

Ironically, Comolli made his name attracting youngsters to Arsenal and that is his strength.  Since he joined Spurs he's recruited Tomas Pekhart, Dorian Dervite, Dean Parrett, Adam Smith, Takura Mtandari, Alex Olsen and (maybe) most importantly, Adel Taarabt who was wanted by just about every major club in Europe and in the end came down a choice of Barcelona and Spurs.  As Comolli had been talking to him for 5 years since he was 12, he opted for us.  Comolli reckons if he keeps his feet on the ground, he could be as good as Zidane and openly admits Taarabt is his best signing.  Maybe some will not live up to expectations but what those 7 youngsters have cost is roughly equal to what Berbatov cost. 

 

I don't believe that those players could have all been signed by a single club operating a manager only system, it would have been impossible to have maintained the contact with the kids whilst they were developing .  I very much agree with Baggio, a good, knowledgeable DoF is the logical way forward in the modern game as it is now.

 

Peter Taylor did a similar job for Brian Clough. On the basis that 2 sets of eyes are better than one, of course that is correct, but the principle is nothing new. All you are describing is a scout. Bill Shankly did it himself, with his scouting staff. So does Alex Ferguson, and his scouting staff, nowadays, having nurtured a good percentage of the players who have played a major part in the clubs success.  At the end of the day, it isn't the system that works, but the ability of the person doing the scouting, and the manager when they start to get near to the first team. If everyone employed a "DOF", could everyone be successful ? Of course not.

 

It seems you have a good chief scout, mind, although we will see if he can find them again for another club.

 

 

 

I think there's quite a bit more to it than that. It's not about appointing a Director of Football or a Chief Scout, or whatever you want to call them, it's about recognising the principle of specialisation and the value of having an expert doing something that they're good at rather than a jack of all trades doing a whole load of stuff they're ok at. What teams like Spurs have done is to understand that times have changed, the days of a manager and a handful of his mates running the playing side of a club are over, and rightly so. What is needed now is a team of experts, a number of people who really know what they are doing, all working together. Yeah the manager is the overall boss, but the people who he works with need to be of a higher quality, and will therefore enjoy a higher stature, than they did in the old days. It's not just Spurs, lots of clubs have a large backroom staff made up of people who have a certain amount of autonomy to do what they want, due to the club having genuine faith in their ability to do the job. We, however, are still in the stone age by comparison and that's got to change.

 

I agree with having an expert in the field, that is obvious, but I don't really agree that it didn't happen before mate. A larger backroom staff - maybe - but it still doesn't make them BETTER. How many times did we take the piss out of Souness and his team of lackeys ? HE had confidence in his own staff, if Micheal Robinson recommended Luque to him, does that make him Souness "trusted" scout ? We know he was his mate, but surely he trusted him if this is true ?

 

Spotting talented footballers before they hit the bit time is a gift, most people spot one or two good players at some stage, but the ones who can do it on a regular basis are worth their weight in gold. They have always been around.

There was a time Burnley had possibly the top scouting network in the country, they found quite a lot of lads in the North East. They sold them though, but they must have had a scout or two with a good eye.

 

 

Wouldn't disagree at all, I remember Burnley well in the early/mid 60's when they had an awesome team.  Even more recently, it was only a couple of years since the Smogs fielded practically a complete team and subs made up of recruits from within 30 miles.  But the ability to identify potentially quality players from the close locality and get them signed is getting harder as more and more clubs chase the same quality players.  A quick look at the Chelsea Academy lads throws up half a dozen names who started out elsewhere and have been brought in, Leeds have suffered the most with Woods and Taiwo, but at least they got £15m compensation for alleged illegal approaches.  Bristol Rovers got £200k for Scott Sinclair and Gillingham £50k for Ryan Bertrand.  To get the players who (hopefully) will be good enough to progress through to the first team of a premiership club, I don't think there is now any doubt that the net has to be cast far and wide.  To be successful the club has to have good scouts, not mates of the manager, but with youngsters a club can also bring them in for a trial, which obviously wasn't possible for Luque.

 

Spurs have (apparently) this season had 74 youngsters in, most for trials but some, like Bale, to be given the red carpet treatment for a few days and show them around.  The trials for the kids should, hopefully, give a better indication whether they have the talent to make it.  But when the kids are brought down to WHL for a trial, they have very little contact with Martin Jol, most is with Comolli  and Alex Inglethorpe, the Academy Head Coach.  Maybe Newcastle do things on a similar line, I would guess so.  If it is, I simply think it is too much of a job to put it on one man's shoulders.

[indi]

 

I agree with having an expert in the field, that is obvious, but I don't really agree that it didn't happen before mate. A larger backroom staff - maybe - but it still doesn't make them BETTER. How many times did we take the piss out of Souness and his team of lackeys ? HE had confidence in his own staff, if Micheal Robinson recommended Luque to him, does that make him Souness "trusted" scout ? We know he was his mate, but surely he trusted him if this is true ?

 

Spotting talented footballers before they hit the bit time is a gift, most people spot one or two good players at some stage, but the ones who can do it on a regular basis are worth their weight in gold. They have always been around.

 

There was a time Burnley had possibly the top scouting network in the country, they found quite a lot of lads in the North East. They sold them though, but they must have had a scout or two with a good eye.

 

 

 

Not sure how what you've just said goes against what I wrote, I said that there needed to be a bigger team and that they needed to be better, it's  about both quantity and quality.

 

It's not just about scouting either, I'm talking right throughout the club. There's so much more involved in running a top-flight footy team now than there used to be, and some of that should be delegated away from the manager to people who are experts in that particular field. This allows the manager to concentrate on pulling it all together and making it work on the pitch.

 

Our club doesn't seem to be run like this. You have Freddy on the business-side who has been pretty much running things on his own - of his own choice - who in my opinion needs to get himself some help (I don't really what to go into that at the moment though); and on the playing side you have Roeder, who also needs more and better help. I mean, look at our coaching staff: what are Lee Clark and Terry Mac experts in, exactly!?!