Wages crisis?

[ChezGiven]

The only way we're going to attract players, is paying them high wages.  We've been shite since Sir Bobby left, what else is going to attract them to our club?  The Peter Ramage welcome fruit basket doesn't cut it anymore. 

 

High wages is one thing.  Fucking batshit crazy insano wages are another.  The sort of wages we are paying Scott Parker - this lad is not a superstar, yet we offered him mad wages to stop him signing for someone else.  We have to stop this sort of thing.  Dyer getting an improved contract when he'd barely played a game - why?? 

 

I've said it in another thread but in the next round of contract negotiations I would be offering them all reduced contracts.  We can do that and still be paying them more than they can get elsewhere.  Tell them to either accept or gamble on getting better money elsewhere - but caution them against just listening to their agent's tales of boundless riches elsewhere.  I'd tell them to talk to Olivier Bernard about how that sort of thing works out.

 

Then leave it with them.  If they leave, they leave, and we free up millions of pounds on the wage bill.  Better that than continue to support these below standard players on vastly inflated wages.

 

I'd love to have that conversation with some of them. Dyer and Parker in particular. Neither should be on more than 40K.

 

Shepherd should love doing it too tbh. 

 

I'd love to sit in front of player and agent, offer him the reduced wage and when the player looks to his agent to argue his corner (as he definitely will cos they're too thick to do it themselves), cut the agent off, and tell him to keep his mouth shut while I point out to the player (MY employee) that his agent has one interest - making money for himself.  And that as soon as I put that reduced wage on the table, the agent saw one thing - ££££ signs at the prospect of securing himself a big slice of any signing on fee that the player makes for moving to a new club - any club, be it a lesser club or not, what does the agent care.  I'd caution him that any advice he receives from this point on from his agent would be with the agent's best interests in mind, and not the players. 

 

The likes of Dyer and Parker, you could feasibly say to them - "where do you think you're going to go that's a step up from here?  Nowhere.  But whatever club he can find that shows an interest, your agent will advise you that that move is the right one for your career when what he really means is that it's the right one for his wallet.  Now go away and think about your career and not his wallet, and let me know your decision in the morning."

 

God I'm fucking NAILS aren't I?

 

In the case of Dyer, you might want to point out that even the reduced rate is likely to be more than he would get elsewhere. Spurs would be his only real alternative and he would get no more than 40/50k there. He'd snap in half in Bolton or Everton's team.

[Kasper]

Is this the part where we laugh at Spurs because they couldn't "afford" to pay Duff's wages.

[Rich]

Is this the part where we laugh at Spurs because they couldn't "afford" to pay Duff's wages.

 

Let's keep that under the carpet for now, eh?

[Parky]

The only way we're going to attract players, is paying them high wages.  We've been shite since Sir Bobby left, what else is going to attract them to our club?  The Peter Ramage welcome fruit basket doesn't cut it anymore. 

 

High wages is one thing.  Fucking batshit crazy insano wages are another.  The sort of wages we are paying Scott Parker - this lad is not a superstar, yet we offered him mad wages to stop him signing for someone else.  We have to stop this sort of thing.  Dyer getting an improved contract when he'd barely played a game - why?? 

 

I've said it in another thread but in the next round of contract negotiations I would be offering them all reduced contracts.  We can do that and still be paying them more than they can get elsewhere.  Tell them to either accept or gamble on getting better money elsewhere - but caution them against just listening to their agent's tales of boundless riches elsewhere.  I'd tell them to talk to Olivier Bernard about how that sort of thing works out.

 

Then leave it with them.  If they leave, they leave, and we free up millions of pounds on the wage bill.  Better that than continue to support these below standard players on vastly inflated wages.

 

I'd love to have that conversation with some of them. Dyer and Parker in particular. Neither should be on more than 40K.

 

Shepherd should love doing it too tbh. 

 

I'd love to sit in front of player and agent, offer him the reduced wage and when the player looks to his agent to argue his corner (as he definitely will cos they're too thick to do it themselves), cut the agent off, and tell him to keep his mouth shut while I point out to the player (MY employee) that his agent has one interest - making money for himself.  And that as soon as I put that reduced wage on the table, the agent saw one thing - ££££ signs at the prospect of securing himself a big slice of any signing on fee that the player makes for moving to a new club - any club, be it a lesser club or not, what does the agent care.  I'd caution him that any advice he receives from this point on from his agent would be with the agent's best interests in mind, and not the players. 

 

The likes of Dyer and Parker, you could feasibly say to them - "where do you think you're going to go that's a step up from here?  Nowhere.  But whatever club he can find that shows an interest, your agent will advise you that that move is the right one for your career when what he really means is that it's the right one for his wallet.  Now go away and think about your career and not his wallet, and let me know your decision in the morning."

 

God I'm fucking NAILS aren't I?

 

In the case of Dyer, you might want to point out that even the reduced rate is likely to be more than he would get elsewhere. Spurs would be his only real alternative and he would get no more than 40/50k there. He'd snap in half in Bolton or Everton's team.

 

Dyer would be mad to leave on those wages or even with a little Gemmill discount.

[Guest Gemmill]

The only way we're going to attract players, is paying them high wages.  We've been shite since Sir Bobby left, what else is going to attract them to our club?  The Peter Ramage welcome fruit basket doesn't cut it anymore. 

 

High wages is one thing.  Fucking batshit crazy insano wages are another.  The sort of wages we are paying Scott Parker - this lad is not a superstar, yet we offered him mad wages to stop him signing for someone else.  We have to stop this sort of thing.  Dyer getting an improved contract when he'd barely played a game - why?? 

 

I've said it in another thread but in the next round of contract negotiations I would be offering them all reduced contracts.  We can do that and still be paying them more than they can get elsewhere.  Tell them to either accept or gamble on getting better money elsewhere - but caution them against just listening to their agent's tales of boundless riches elsewhere.  I'd tell them to talk to Olivier Bernard about how that sort of thing works out.

 

Then leave it with them.  If they leave, they leave, and we free up millions of pounds on the wage bill.  Better that than continue to support these below standard players on vastly inflated wages.

 

I'd love to have that conversation with some of them. Dyer and Parker in particular. Neither should be on more than 40K.

 

Shepherd should love doing it too tbh. 

 

I'd love to sit in front of player and agent, offer him the reduced wage and when the player looks to his agent to argue his corner (as he definitely will cos they're too thick to do it themselves), cut the agent off, and tell him to keep his mouth shut while I point out to the player (MY employee) that his agent has one interest - making money for himself.  And that as soon as I put that reduced wage on the table, the agent saw one thing - ££££ signs at the prospect of securing himself a big slice of any signing on fee that the player makes for moving to a new club - any club, be it a lesser club or not, what does the agent care.  I'd caution him that any advice he receives from this point on from his agent would be with the agent's best interests in mind, and not the players. 

 

The likes of Dyer and Parker, you could feasibly say to them - "where do you think you're going to go that's a step up from here?  Nowhere.  But whatever club he can find that shows an interest, your agent will advise you that that move is the right one for your career when what he really means is that it's the right one for his wallet.  Now go away and think about your career and not his wallet, and let me know your decision in the morning."

 

God I'm fucking NAILS aren't I?

 

In the case of Dyer, you might want to point out that even the reduced rate is likely to be more than he would get elsewhere. Spurs would be his only real alternative and he would get no more than 40/50k there. He'd snap in half in Bolton or Everton's team.

 

Dyer would be mad to leave on those wages or even with a little Gemmill discount.

 

If he is on the reported £80k per week, I'd knock £20-25k off and just tell him to accept it or go and earn less than that elsewhere.  £55-60k is WAY more than any other club in the premiership would pay him and it would save us £1m + per annum.  That's just from one paycut for one player.

 

Fucking let me at them, Freddy.

[ChezGiven]

The only way we're going to attract players, is paying them high wages.  We've been shite since Sir Bobby left, what else is going to attract them to our club?  The Peter Ramage welcome fruit basket doesn't cut it anymore. 

 

High wages is one thing.  Fucking batshit crazy insano wages are another.  The sort of wages we are paying Scott Parker - this lad is not a superstar, yet we offered him mad wages to stop him signing for someone else.  We have to stop this sort of thing.  Dyer getting an improved contract when he'd barely played a game - why?? 

 

I've said it in another thread but in the next round of contract negotiations I would be offering them all reduced contracts.  We can do that and still be paying them more than they can get elsewhere.  Tell them to either accept or gamble on getting better money elsewhere - but caution them against just listening to their agent's tales of boundless riches elsewhere.  I'd tell them to talk to Olivier Bernard about how that sort of thing works out.

 

Then leave it with them.  If they leave, they leave, and we free up millions of pounds on the wage bill.  Better that than continue to support these below standard players on vastly inflated wages.

 

I'd love to have that conversation with some of them. Dyer and Parker in particular. Neither should be on more than 40K.

 

Shepherd should love doing it too tbh. 

 

I'd love to sit in front of player and agent, offer him the reduced wage and when the player looks to his agent to argue his corner (as he definitely will cos they're too thick to do it themselves), cut the agent off, and tell him to keep his mouth shut while I point out to the player (MY employee) that his agent has one interest - making money for himself.  And that as soon as I put that reduced wage on the table, the agent saw one thing - ££££ signs at the prospect of securing himself a big slice of any signing on fee that the player makes for moving to a new club - any club, be it a lesser club or not, what does the agent care.  I'd caution him that any advice he receives from this point on from his agent would be with the agent's best interests in mind, and not the players. 

 

The likes of Dyer and Parker, you could feasibly say to them - "where do you think you're going to go that's a step up from here?  Nowhere.  But whatever club he can find that shows an interest, your agent will advise you that that move is the right one for your career when what he really means is that it's the right one for his wallet.  Now go away and think about your career and not his wallet, and let me know your decision in the morning."

 

God I'm fucking NAILS aren't I?

 

In the case of Dyer, you might want to point out that even the reduced rate is likely to be more than he would get elsewhere. Spurs would be his only real alternative and he would get no more than 40/50k there. He'd snap in half in Bolton or Everton's team.

 

Dyer would be mad to leave on those wages or even with a little Gemmill discount.

 

If he is on the reported £80k per week, I'd knock £20-25k off and just tell him to accept it or go and earn less than that elsewhere.  £55-60k is WAY more than any other club in the premiership would pay him and it would save us £1m + per annum.  That's just from one paycut for one player.

 

Fucking let me at them, Freddy.

 

85K per week i thought. You'd need a good employment lawyer as he is under contract.

[Guest shaun11177]

We are about 5th as no club can pay wages to equal the clubs with Champions lge income.

i understand that if otherv clubs are in for a player it pushes wages and transfer fees up but who else was after Parker-Everton and no way were Everton going to pay anything like 50000 a week.Owen-were Liverpool really prepared to pay him 105000 a week+a transfer fee of 16m and who else was competing for Luque,s signature at 9m and 40000 a week.

Its all summed by Kluivert-67000 a week at Newcastle,30000 when he went to Valencia.

Certainly the new tv income should put the ratio back to 50% but that doesnt mean we are getting value for money.

80000 a week for Dyer has to be the most paid for the least talent in the whole of world football.

[Guest Gemmill]

The only way we're going to attract players, is paying them high wages.  We've been shite since Sir Bobby left, what else is going to attract them to our club?  The Peter Ramage welcome fruit basket doesn't cut it anymore. 

 

High wages is one thing.  Fucking batshit crazy insano wages are another.  The sort of wages we are paying Scott Parker - this lad is not a superstar, yet we offered him mad wages to stop him signing for someone else.  We have to stop this sort of thing.  Dyer getting an improved contract when he'd barely played a game - why?? 

 

I've said it in another thread but in the next round of contract negotiations I would be offering them all reduced contracts.  We can do that and still be paying them more than they can get elsewhere.  Tell them to either accept or gamble on getting better money elsewhere - but caution them against just listening to their agent's tales of boundless riches elsewhere.  I'd tell them to talk to Olivier Bernard about how that sort of thing works out.

 

Then leave it with them.  If they leave, they leave, and we free up millions of pounds on the wage bill.  Better that than continue to support these below standard players on vastly inflated wages.

 

I'd love to have that conversation with some of them. Dyer and Parker in particular. Neither should be on more than 40K.

 

Shepherd should love doing it too tbh. 

 

I'd love to sit in front of player and agent, offer him the reduced wage and when the player looks to his agent to argue his corner (as he definitely will cos they're too thick to do it themselves), cut the agent off, and tell him to keep his mouth shut while I point out to the player (MY employee) that his agent has one interest - making money for himself.  And that as soon as I put that reduced wage on the table, the agent saw one thing - ££££ signs at the prospect of securing himself a big slice of any signing on fee that the player makes for moving to a new club - any club, be it a lesser club or not, what does the agent care.  I'd caution him that any advice he receives from this point on from his agent would be with the agent's best interests in mind, and not the players. 

 

The likes of Dyer and Parker, you could feasibly say to them - "where do you think you're going to go that's a step up from here?  Nowhere.  But whatever club he can find that shows an interest, your agent will advise you that that move is the right one for your career when what he really means is that it's the right one for his wallet.  Now go away and think about your career and not his wallet, and let me know your decision in the morning."

 

God I'm fucking NAILS aren't I?

 

In the case of Dyer, you might want to point out that even the reduced rate is likely to be more than he would get elsewhere. Spurs would be his only real alternative and he would get no more than 40/50k there. He'd snap in half in Bolton or Everton's team.

 

Dyer would be mad to leave on those wages or even with a little Gemmill discount.

 

If he is on the reported £80k per week, I'd knock £20-25k off and just tell him to accept it or go and earn less than that elsewhere.  £55-60k is WAY more than any other club in the premiership would pay him and it would save us £1m + per annum.  That's just from one paycut for one player.

 

Fucking let me at them, Freddy.

 

85K per week i thought. You'd need a good employment lawyer as he is under contract.

 

Oh at the minute he is aye.  I'm talking about his next contract.  It would take it to be contract renewal time for this to be implemented.  Across the board.

[Guest alex]

When Dyer got his reported improved contract last time round it was madness if true (and I'm not one of the Dyer haters) and most people thought so at the time. If he'd been offered a pay cut he'd have struggled to get better elsewhere (even on a Bosman). He'd struggle to pass a medical I'd guess. That's just typical of the club though at present. Too many players on wages that are too high. It is (arguably) ambitious of the board to offer these high wages but it's still financial mismanagement at the end of the day. And it's coming home to roost now it would seem.

[Dave]

Could footballers claim constructive dismissal, or is that just nonsense in this form of negotiating?

[ChezGiven]

Anyone got the Ashley Cole quote, the one when he nearly crashed his Ferrari when he heard the revised pay offer from Arsenal?

 

Performance related pay is the way forward. 

[Guest alex]

Anyone got the Ashley Cole quote, the one when he nearly crashed his Ferrari when he heard the revised pay offer from Arsenal?

 

Performance related pay is the way forward. 

Definitely. Good basic salary with win bonuses etc. The entire pay structure at the club would need dismantling though. Or rather, it would need creating.

[Baggio]

We found out in January with Luque that shit players are happy to stay and sit on the bench as long as they are on big money.

 

This club needs a big shake up.

[ChezGiven]

Tbf the game needs a big shake up.

[Parky]

We found out in January with Luque that shit players are happy to stay and sit on the bench as long as they are on big money.

 

This club needs a big shake up.

 

 

Case in point.

[The College Dropout]

It's the Souness era "big name" signings coupled with the other over priced midfield we have will hold us back

 

Parker,Dyer,Emre,Duff,Owen,Luque and Butt are all probably earning in excess of 40k.

 

I feel we'll need to go back to the SBR policy of paying fairly high transfer fees and low wages for young talent. Jermaine Jenas and Scott Parker are players of similar quality but I suspect that Parker could be on twice the wages as Jenas.

[Parky]

It's the Souness era "big name" signings coupled with the other over priced midfield we have will hold us back

 

Parker,Dyer,Emre,Duff,Owen,Luque and Butt are all probably earning in excess of 40k.

 

I feel we'll need to go back to the SBR policy of paying fairly high transfer fees and low wages for young talent. Jermaine Jenas and Scott Parker are players of similar quality but I suspect that Parker could be on twice the wages as Jenas.

 

For sure, Spurs wouldn't put up with any crazy wages nonsense.

[Guest Knightrider]

Our wage crisis (it is a crisis) is just further testimony of the reckless way this club is run and has been since this board took over. And what is so unforgiving here is that pretty much most of our financial woes could have and should have been avoided. Indeed the whole financial aspect of management is mostly straight forward and comes down to common sense (see Gemmill's posts on contract renewals further up the thread).

 

But our board's management of finances is shocking as evidenced by the following facts:

 

Pays Blackburn compensation to appoint Souness

Hand Souness a 5 year contract and hand out contracts to his staff

Hands him over £50m to spend on players

Pay Souness & his staff compensation after sacking him 2 years into his contract

 

Won't give Souness £6m to buy Boa Morte but buys Luque for £9.5m

Won't give Souness £9m to buy Anelka, but buys Owen for £16m

 

Liverpool offer Madrid £8m for Owen, a player who learning of our interest, categorically states he doesn't want to sign for us, but would consider a loan option IF A MOVE TO LIVERPOOL DOESN'T COME OFF. We then go and double Liverpool's offer and sign the player, making him the highest earner in the club's history on wages of £90,000 plus a year over 4 years.

 

And people trust these idiots with money?

 

Is it any wonder agents and players take the piss...

 

Has anyone seen the episode of Black Books when Manny loses it when buying some books? A punter walks in with a few scruffy old books underarm and asks how much he'd be willing to give him for them, Manny says £20 and before the punter can snap his hands off Manny goes "OK then, £30" before bumping up the price a few more times, to the shock and amusement of the punter. That's Freddy Shepherd

[Guest Knightrider]

It's the Souness era "big name" signings coupled with the other over priced midfield we have will hold us back

 

Parker,Dyer,Emre,Duff,Owen,Luque and Butt are all probably earning in excess of 40k.

 

I feel we'll need to go back to the SBR policy of paying fairly high transfer fees and low wages for young talent. Jermaine Jenas and Scott Parker are players of similar quality but I suspect that Parker could be on twice the wages as Jenas.

 

It has been going on for years, before Souness.

[Shearer9]

I think the thing that gets overlooked in wages is what we pay the staff, and that's the one area I wouldn't mind breaking the bank to pay insane wages to get the right people in.  Someone like Wenger is easily worth £10m a year to get coaching at Newcastle, yet we're content to waste money buying shite managers out of their contracts or signing on the cheap and easy option, rather than genuinely seeking the best manager and coaching staff.  I'd love to see the club decide to take a sizeable portion of this new money coming in and use it on getting in the best possible manager, financial and marketing experts, coaching staff and director of football.  It would be worth it to pay ludicrous wages to get those kind of people in.

[robbo_11]

It's got me thinking, what is an average Premiership players wage?

 

I wonder what these players could be on?

 

Given (signed new 5 year deal not long ago)

Babayaro (Souness0

Moore (Souness - picked up £250,000 in 6 weeks iirc)

Carr (SBR)

Butt (SBR)

Ramage (signed a 3 year deal a season ago - he was about to leave remember)

Harper (signed new 2 year deal recently)

[macbeth]

The usual excellent explanation of wages out of control is at http://www.nufc-finances.org.uk/payroll2.htm

 

The http://www.nufc-finances.org.uk/amortisation2.htm page also includes the contract length for all the players brought in ove rthe last few years. These players will usually have been paid a premium to join us.

 

 

[Parky]

Our wage crisis (it is a crisis) is just further testimony of the reckless way this club is run and has been since this board took over. And what is so unforgiving here is that pretty much most of our financial woes could have and should have been avoided. Indeed the whole financial aspect of management is mostly straight forward and comes down to common sense (see Gemmill's posts on contract renewals further up the thread).

 

There seems to be some kind of fear amongst the management about the way they deal with so-called 'stars', say the Owen's and the Luque's. I seriously think one of FF's main negotiating weaknesses is some kind of inferiority complex. He is definately star struck or in awe of the likes of Shearer and Owen...At the end of the day he needs to recognise that they are just footballers and weigh up what kind of asset they will be to the club...Everything else is window dressing.

 

But our board's management of finances is shocking as evidenced by the following facts:

 

Pays Blackburn compensation to appoint Souness

Hand Souness a 5 year contract and hand out contracts to his staff

Hands him over £50m to spend on players

Pay Souness & his staff compensation after sacking him 2 years into his contract

 

Won't give Souness £6m to buy Boa Morte but buys Luque for £9.5m

Won't give Souness £9m to buy Anelka, but buys Owen for £16m

 

I'd still rather have Anelka than Owen.

 

Liverpool offer Madrid £8m for Owen, a player who learning of our interest, categorically states he doesn't want to sign for us, but would consider a loan option IF A MOVE TO LIVERPOOL DOESN'T COME OFF. We then go and double Liverpool's offer and sign the player, making him the highest earner in the club's history on wages of £90,000 plus a year over 4 years.

 

This has to be one of the grossest cases of mismangement of finaces in the history of the PL.

 

And people trust these idiots with money?

 

Is it any wonder agents and players take the piss...

 

Has anyone seen the episode of Black Books when Manny loses it when buying some books? A punter walks in with a few scruffy old books underarm and asks how much he'd be willing to give him for them, Manny says £20 and before the punter can snap his hands off Manny goes "OK then, £30" before bumping up the price a few more times, to the shock and amusement of the punter. That's Freddy Shepherd

[robbo_11]

If Bramble, Moore, Babayaro, Emre and Carr leave in the summer that is likely to greatly help the wage budget. I noticed from the links that it seems SBR had some sense when offering players contracts, sensible lengths - except Bramble (only reason i don't think he has been sold or released is because he will be on big wages), but Souness + Roeder's eras they just seem to offer any player a 5 year deal.

[Parky]

Just to put things in perspective little Michael's personal wealth is now estimated to be £32m.