Crouch > Martins

[Guest Knightrider]

Why single out one of our better players, someone who has done well this season? We constantly piss on the good things at Newcastle. Shearer scored 30 goals in SBR's first season in charge but a regular moan was "he's not the player he once was" FFS, Martins is 22. Robert scored and created lots of goals yet one of the moans was "he's a lazy bastard", Bellamy "misses too many one on ones", Shay "can't command his box"...

 

I agree with some of your points Gemmill but I would be more concerned if he was showing these failings week in week out - he doesn't however and has shown he can link up play, pass the ball and control it well. We now need to coax that out of him on a regular basis to good effect. It would be unfair to judge him this critically at such a young age in terms of development, least of all playing in a shite team that is going nowhere. The acid test will be next season and beyond.

 

I agree with you about Crouch BTW, a player I've always liked and rated, he's a decent player and anyone who saw his goals yesterday, will know that. I still wouldn't like him at the club though, as he'd cost crazy money and I'd fear by having such a tall man who isn't the best in the air believe it or not, would give us an excuse to play it long all the time, something we do regulalry anyway with cock-height Martins up front.

 

What's your point then?  You agree with a lot of what I say, but then say I shouldn't be saying it?  He's shown you he can control the ball well?  Has he been doing this in private cos he's not doing it at SJP that's for fucking sure.

 

My point is why single out Martins and make what for me are absurd comments such as "could still yet prove to be an expensive flop" or words to that effect, when in reality he has done very well this season and shown more than enough that there is a great deal of potential there. You've claimed that people overrate him (they do) yet for me, you're just as bad with your over the top critical assessment. Yes his control, movement etc. isn't the best and he's a frustrating player, all things I agree with you on, but you make it out to be a lot worse than it actually is or give that impression.

 

As for the games where he has shown good control etc. - Liverpool at home, Spurs, Hammers, Blackburn away, AZ at home (I thought he was sparkling) and Chelsea at home in the LC come to mind, where he did well, in my opinion anyway.

 

What Martins needs and so do we, is a good partner, we also need to stop playing balls 10 feet in the air for him to try and get on the end of, and to use his assets such as his pace, to play to his strengths and hope in time his overall game will develop enough.

 

I personally think he has done amazingly well this season to make a mark given the service and the anal tactics being deployed, to score 16 goals in this abject team is no mean feat. To be hyper critical as you have been pretty much since day one though, is being harsh.

 

Jesus Christ lad, what is hyper-critical about pointing out that the lad's movement and control are poor?  They ARE by the way, you can deny that all you like and list 6 games from an entire season where he's demonstrated a good touch, but that's not enough.  His touch is consitently worse than Shola's, which only serves to prove that on the occasions he gets it right, it's more through luck than him actually having a good touch.  Jesus, anyone can get it right from time to time.  More often than not his touch is poor, and more often than not his movement is poor.  Name your top 6 Martins games as evidence that he's great if you like, but don't expect me not to point to the rest of the time as evidence that he's got a LONG way to go and he's going to need proper coaching to get there.

 

PS.  Were you there yesterday?  (bet you weren't )  Did you see any evidence of his touch?

 

You know when someone is defeated when they turn all supafan on you

 

Seriously, I genuinely think you've been harsh on Martins since he signed Gemmill and while there is a lot of truth in what you're saying, it is becoming a bit of a broken record with you, with each poor performance Martins puts in, being amplified to the point you even, shock horror, start a thread about it, which is rarer than hens teeth round these parts

 

PS No I wasn't at the match, to be fair. 

[Isegrim]

Why single out one of our better players, someone who has done well this season? We constantly piss on the good things at Newcastle. Shearer scored 30 goals in SBR's first season in charge but a regular moan was "he's not the player he once was" FFS, Martins is 22. Robert scored and created lots of goals yet one of the moans was "he's a lazy b******", Bellamy "misses too many one on ones", Shay "can't command his box"...

 

I agree with some of your points Gemmill but I would be more concerned if he was showing these failings week in week out - he doesn't however and has shown he can link up play, pass the ball and control it well. We now need to coax that out of him on a regular basis to good effect. It would be unfair to judge him this critically at such a young age in terms of development, least of all playing in a s**** team that is going nowhere. The acid test will be next season and beyond.

 

I agree with you about Crouch BTW, a player I've always liked and rated, he's a decent player and anyone who saw his goals yesterday, will know that. I still wouldn't like him at the club though, as he'd cost crazy money and I'd fear by having such a tall man who isn't the best in the air believe it or not, would give us an excuse to play it long all the time, something we do regulalry anyway with cock-height Martins up front.

 

What's your point then?  You agree with a lot of what I say, but then say I shouldn't be saying it?  He's shown you he can control the ball well?  Has he been doing this in private cos he's not doing it at SJP that's for f****** sure.

 

My point is why single out Martins and make what for me are absurd comments such as "could still yet prove to be an expensive flop" or words to that effect, when in reality he has done very well this season and shown more than enough that there is a great deal of potential there. You've claimed that people overrate him (they do) yet for me, you're just as bad with your over the top critical assessment. Yes his control, movement etc. isn't the best and he's a frustrating player, all things I agree with you on, but you make it out to be a lot worse than it actually is or give that impression.

 

As for the games where he has shown good control etc. - Liverpool at home, Spurs, Hammers, Blackburn away, AZ at home (I thought he was sparkling) and Chelsea at home in the LC come to mind, where he did well, in my opinion anyway.

 

What Martins needs and so do we, is a good partner, we also need to stop playing balls 10 feet in the air for him to try and get on the end of, and to use his assets such as his pace, to play to his strengths and hope in time his overall game will develop enough.

 

I personally think he has done amazingly well this season to make a mark given the service and the anal tactics being deployed, to score 16 goals in this abject team is no mean feat. To be hyper critical as you have been pretty much since day one though, is being harsh.

 

Jesus Christ lad, what is hyper-critical about pointing out that the lad's movement and control are poor?  They ARE by the way, you can deny that all you like and list 6 games from an entire season where he's demonstrated a good touch, but that's not enough.  His touch is consitently worse than Shola's, which only serves to prove that on the occasions he gets it right, it's more through luck than him actually having a good touch.  Jesus, anyone can get it right from time to time.  More often than not his touch is poor, and more often than not his movement is poor.  Name your top 6 Martins games as evidence that he's great if you like, but don't expect me not to point to the rest of the time as evidence that he's got a LONG way to go and he's going to need proper coaching to get there.

 

PS.  Were you there yesterday?  (bet you weren't )  Did you see any evidence of his touch?

 

You know when someone is defeated when they turn all supafan on you

 

Seriously, I genuinely think you've been harsh on Martins since he signed Gemmill and while there is a lot of truth in what you're saying, it is becoming a bit of a broken record with you, with each poor performance Martins puts in, being amplified to the point you even, shock horror, start a thread about it, which is rarer than hens teeth round these parts

 

PS No I wasn't at the match, to be fair. 

To be fair, I can't remember any thread Gemmill has started about this topic before...

[Guest Knightrider]

Why single out one of our better players, someone who has done well this season? We constantly piss on the good things at Newcastle. Shearer scored 30 goals in SBR's first season in charge but a regular moan was "he's not the player he once was" FFS, Martins is 22. Robert scored and created lots of goals yet one of the moans was "he's a lazy b******", Bellamy "misses too many one on ones", Shay "can't command his box"...

 

I agree with some of your points Gemmill but I would be more concerned if he was showing these failings week in week out - he doesn't however and has shown he can link up play, pass the ball and control it well. We now need to coax that out of him on a regular basis to good effect. It would be unfair to judge him this critically at such a young age in terms of development, least of all playing in a s**** team that is going nowhere. The acid test will be next season and beyond.

 

I agree with you about Crouch BTW, a player I've always liked and rated, he's a decent player and anyone who saw his goals yesterday, will know that. I still wouldn't like him at the club though, as he'd cost crazy money and I'd fear by having such a tall man who isn't the best in the air believe it or not, would give us an excuse to play it long all the time, something we do regulalry anyway with cock-height Martins up front.

 

What's your point then?  You agree with a lot of what I say, but then say I shouldn't be saying it?  He's shown you he can control the ball well?  Has he been doing this in private cos he's not doing it at SJP that's for f****** sure.

 

My point is why single out Martins and make what for me are absurd comments such as "could still yet prove to be an expensive flop" or words to that effect, when in reality he has done very well this season and shown more than enough that there is a great deal of potential there. You've claimed that people overrate him (they do) yet for me, you're just as bad with your over the top critical assessment. Yes his control, movement etc. isn't the best and he's a frustrating player, all things I agree with you on, but you make it out to be a lot worse than it actually is or give that impression.

 

As for the games where he has shown good control etc. - Liverpool at home, Spurs, Hammers, Blackburn away, AZ at home (I thought he was sparkling) and Chelsea at home in the LC come to mind, where he did well, in my opinion anyway.

 

What Martins needs and so do we, is a good partner, we also need to stop playing balls 10 feet in the air for him to try and get on the end of, and to use his assets such as his pace, to play to his strengths and hope in time his overall game will develop enough.

 

I personally think he has done amazingly well this season to make a mark given the service and the anal tactics being deployed, to score 16 goals in this abject team is no mean feat. To be hyper critical as you have been pretty much since day one though, is being harsh.

 

Jesus Christ lad, what is hyper-critical about pointing out that the lad's movement and control are poor?  They ARE by the way, you can deny that all you like and list 6 games from an entire season where he's demonstrated a good touch, but that's not enough.  His touch is consitently worse than Shola's, which only serves to prove that on the occasions he gets it right, it's more through luck than him actually having a good touch.  Jesus, anyone can get it right from time to time.  More often than not his touch is poor, and more often than not his movement is poor.  Name your top 6 Martins games as evidence that he's great if you like, but don't expect me not to point to the rest of the time as evidence that he's got a LONG way to go and he's going to need proper coaching to get there.

 

PS.  Were you there yesterday?  (bet you weren't )  Did you see any evidence of his touch?

 

You know when someone is defeated when they turn all supafan on you

 

Seriously, I genuinely think you've been harsh on Martins since he signed Gemmill and while there is a lot of truth in what you're saying, it is becoming a bit of a broken record with you, with each poor performance Martins puts in, being amplified to the point you even, shock horror, start a thread about it, which is rarer than hens teeth round these parts

 

PS No I wasn't at the match, to be fair. 

To be fair, I can't remember any thread Gemmill has started about this topic before...

 

I can't remember Gemmill starting ANY thread to be fair. He does like to mention Martins' poor movement, control etc. on a consistent basis though.

[Guest Gemmill]

Why single out one of our better players, someone who has done well this season? We constantly piss on the good things at Newcastle. Shearer scored 30 goals in SBR's first season in charge but a regular moan was "he's not the player he once was" FFS, Martins is 22. Robert scored and created lots of goals yet one of the moans was "he's a lazy b******", Bellamy "misses too many one on ones", Shay "can't command his box"...

 

I agree with some of your points Gemmill but I would be more concerned if he was showing these failings week in week out - he doesn't however and has shown he can link up play, pass the ball and control it well. We now need to coax that out of him on a regular basis to good effect. It would be unfair to judge him this critically at such a young age in terms of development, least of all playing in a s**** team that is going nowhere. The acid test will be next season and beyond.

 

I agree with you about Crouch BTW, a player I've always liked and rated, he's a decent player and anyone who saw his goals yesterday, will know that. I still wouldn't like him at the club though, as he'd cost crazy money and I'd fear by having such a tall man who isn't the best in the air believe it or not, would give us an excuse to play it long all the time, something we do regulalry anyway with cock-height Martins up front.

 

What's your point then?  You agree with a lot of what I say, but then say I shouldn't be saying it?  He's shown you he can control the ball well?  Has he been doing this in private cos he's not doing it at SJP that's for f****** sure.

 

My point is why single out Martins and make what for me are absurd comments such as "could still yet prove to be an expensive flop" or words to that effect, when in reality he has done very well this season and shown more than enough that there is a great deal of potential there. You've claimed that people overrate him (they do) yet for me, you're just as bad with your over the top critical assessment. Yes his control, movement etc. isn't the best and he's a frustrating player, all things I agree with you on, but you make it out to be a lot worse than it actually is or give that impression.

 

As for the games where he has shown good control etc. - Liverpool at home, Spurs, Hammers, Blackburn away, AZ at home (I thought he was sparkling) and Chelsea at home in the LC come to mind, where he did well, in my opinion anyway.

 

What Martins needs and so do we, is a good partner, we also need to stop playing balls 10 feet in the air for him to try and get on the end of, and to use his assets such as his pace, to play to his strengths and hope in time his overall game will develop enough.

 

I personally think he has done amazingly well this season to make a mark given the service and the anal tactics being deployed, to score 16 goals in this abject team is no mean feat. To be hyper critical as you have been pretty much since day one though, is being harsh.

 

Jesus Christ lad, what is hyper-critical about pointing out that the lad's movement and control are poor?  They ARE by the way, you can deny that all you like and list 6 games from an entire season where he's demonstrated a good touch, but that's not enough.  His touch is consitently worse than Shola's, which only serves to prove that on the occasions he gets it right, it's more through luck than him actually having a good touch.  Jesus, anyone can get it right from time to time.  More often than not his touch is poor, and more often than not his movement is poor.  Name your top 6 Martins games as evidence that he's great if you like, but don't expect me not to point to the rest of the time as evidence that he's got a LONG way to go and he's going to need proper coaching to get there.

 

PS.  Were you there yesterday?  (bet you weren't )  Did you see any evidence of his touch?

 

You know when someone is defeated when they turn all supafan on you

 

Seriously, I genuinely think you've been harsh on Martins since he signed Gemmill and while there is a lot of truth in what you're saying, it is becoming a bit of a broken record with you, with each poor performance Martins puts in, being amplified to the point you even, shock horror, start a thread about it, which is rarer than hens teeth round these parts

 

PS No I wasn't at the match, to be fair. 

To be fair, I can't remember any thread Gemmill has started about this topic before...

 

I can't remember Gemmill starting ANY thread to be fair. He does like to mention Martins' poor movement, control etc. on a consistent basis though.

 

Maybe because it's consistently poor?

[Isegrim]

Why single out one of our better players, someone who has done well this season? We constantly piss on the good things at Newcastle. Shearer scored 30 goals in SBR's first season in charge but a regular moan was "he's not the player he once was" FFS, Martins is 22. Robert scored and created lots of goals yet one of the moans was "he's a lazy b******", Bellamy "misses too many one on ones", Shay "can't command his box"...

 

I agree with some of your points Gemmill but I would be more concerned if he was showing these failings week in week out - he doesn't however and has shown he can link up play, pass the ball and control it well. We now need to coax that out of him on a regular basis to good effect. It would be unfair to judge him this critically at such a young age in terms of development, least of all playing in a s**** team that is going nowhere. The acid test will be next season and beyond.

 

I agree with you about Crouch BTW, a player I've always liked and rated, he's a decent player and anyone who saw his goals yesterday, will know that. I still wouldn't like him at the club though, as he'd cost crazy money and I'd fear by having such a tall man who isn't the best in the air believe it or not, would give us an excuse to play it long all the time, something we do regulalry anyway with cock-height Martins up front.

 

What's your point then?  You agree with a lot of what I say, but then say I shouldn't be saying it?  He's shown you he can control the ball well?  Has he been doing this in private cos he's not doing it at SJP that's for f****** sure.

 

My point is why single out Martins and make what for me are absurd comments such as "could still yet prove to be an expensive flop" or words to that effect, when in reality he has done very well this season and shown more than enough that there is a great deal of potential there. You've claimed that people overrate him (they do) yet for me, you're just as bad with your over the top critical assessment. Yes his control, movement etc. isn't the best and he's a frustrating player, all things I agree with you on, but you make it out to be a lot worse than it actually is or give that impression.

 

As for the games where he has shown good control etc. - Liverpool at home, Spurs, Hammers, Blackburn away, AZ at home (I thought he was sparkling) and Chelsea at home in the LC come to mind, where he did well, in my opinion anyway.

 

What Martins needs and so do we, is a good partner, we also need to stop playing balls 10 feet in the air for him to try and get on the end of, and to use his assets such as his pace, to play to his strengths and hope in time his overall game will develop enough.

 

I personally think he has done amazingly well this season to make a mark given the service and the anal tactics being deployed, to score 16 goals in this abject team is no mean feat. To be hyper critical as you have been pretty much since day one though, is being harsh.

 

Jesus Christ lad, what is hyper-critical about pointing out that the lad's movement and control are poor?  They ARE by the way, you can deny that all you like and list 6 games from an entire season where he's demonstrated a good touch, but that's not enough.  His touch is consitently worse than Shola's, which only serves to prove that on the occasions he gets it right, it's more through luck than him actually having a good touch.  Jesus, anyone can get it right from time to time.  More often than not his touch is poor, and more often than not his movement is poor.  Name your top 6 Martins games as evidence that he's great if you like, but don't expect me not to point to the rest of the time as evidence that he's got a LONG way to go and he's going to need proper coaching to get there.

 

PS.  Were you there yesterday?  (bet you weren't )  Did you see any evidence of his touch?

 

You know when someone is defeated when they turn all supafan on you

 

Seriously, I genuinely think you've been harsh on Martins since he signed Gemmill and while there is a lot of truth in what you're saying, it is becoming a bit of a broken record with you, with each poor performance Martins puts in, being amplified to the point you even, shock horror, start a thread about it, which is rarer than hens teeth round these parts

 

PS No I wasn't at the match, to be fair. 

To be fair, I can't remember any thread Gemmill has started about this topic before...

 

I can't remember Gemmill starting ANY thread to be fair. He does like to mention Martins' poor movement, control etc. on a consistent basis though.

 

So you are just trying to make things up. Ok.

 

There is nothing wrong in pointing to Martins' shortcomings tbh. And in the end the criticism is getting balanced out by the large number of posts where Martins is getting über-glorified. You know all this "is better than Rooney nonsense" etc.

[Cajun]

22 years old, new league, 16 goals, shit side, shit tactics, shit partner and average manager. He has done very well, he has his faults but he is still a good player and certainly not the only striker who looks poor when they don't score (Owen).

 

People complain that he hangs around the edge of the box too much but this is probably due to the way his game has developed and having strike partners in the past who are the poachers. With our problems this season Martins is expected to do ALL the work that 2 strikers would do and thats an unfair expectation.

[Yorkie]

22 years old, new league, 16 goals, shit side, shit tactics, shit partner and average manager. He has done very well, he has his faults but he is still a good player and certainly not the only striker who looks poor when they don't score (Owen).

 

People complain that he hangs around the edge of the box too much but this is probably due to the way his game has developed and having strike partners in the past who are the poachers. With our problems this season Martins is expected to do ALL the work that 2 strikers would do and thats an unfair expectation.

 

We have a winner.

[Guest andynufc84]

 

Martins has been crucial this season like, what would we have done without him?

 

Owen, Ameobi crocked

 

Leaving us with Sibierski, Dyer, bairns. We would be more f***** than we are now thats for sure.

[Guest Knightrider]

Why single out one of our better players, someone who has done well this season? We constantly piss on the good things at Newcastle. Shearer scored 30 goals in SBR's first season in charge but a regular moan was "he's not the player he once was" FFS, Martins is 22. Robert scored and created lots of goals yet one of the moans was "he's a lazy b******", Bellamy "misses too many one on ones", Shay "can't command his box"...

 

I agree with some of your points Gemmill but I would be more concerned if he was showing these failings week in week out - he doesn't however and has shown he can link up play, pass the ball and control it well. We now need to coax that out of him on a regular basis to good effect. It would be unfair to judge him this critically at such a young age in terms of development, least of all playing in a s**** team that is going nowhere. The acid test will be next season and beyond.

 

I agree with you about Crouch BTW, a player I've always liked and rated, he's a decent player and anyone who saw his goals yesterday, will know that. I still wouldn't like him at the club though, as he'd cost crazy money and I'd fear by having such a tall man who isn't the best in the air believe it or not, would give us an excuse to play it long all the time, something we do regulalry anyway with cock-height Martins up front.

 

What's your point then?  You agree with a lot of what I say, but then say I shouldn't be saying it?  He's shown you he can control the ball well?  Has he been doing this in private cos he's not doing it at SJP that's for f****** sure.

 

My point is why single out Martins and make what for me are absurd comments such as "could still yet prove to be an expensive flop" or words to that effect, when in reality he has done very well this season and shown more than enough that there is a great deal of potential there. You've claimed that people overrate him (they do) yet for me, you're just as bad with your over the top critical assessment. Yes his control, movement etc. isn't the best and he's a frustrating player, all things I agree with you on, but you make it out to be a lot worse than it actually is or give that impression.

 

As for the games where he has shown good control etc. - Liverpool at home, Spurs, Hammers, Blackburn away, AZ at home (I thought he was sparkling) and Chelsea at home in the LC come to mind, where he did well, in my opinion anyway.

 

What Martins needs and so do we, is a good partner, we also need to stop playing balls 10 feet in the air for him to try and get on the end of, and to use his assets such as his pace, to play to his strengths and hope in time his overall game will develop enough.

 

I personally think he has done amazingly well this season to make a mark given the service and the anal tactics being deployed, to score 16 goals in this abject team is no mean feat. To be hyper critical as you have been pretty much since day one though, is being harsh.

 

Jesus Christ lad, what is hyper-critical about pointing out that the lad's movement and control are poor?  They ARE by the way, you can deny that all you like and list 6 games from an entire season where he's demonstrated a good touch, but that's not enough.  His touch is consitently worse than Shola's, which only serves to prove that on the occasions he gets it right, it's more through luck than him actually having a good touch.  Jesus, anyone can get it right from time to time.  More often than not his touch is poor, and more often than not his movement is poor.  Name your top 6 Martins games as evidence that he's great if you like, but don't expect me not to point to the rest of the time as evidence that he's got a LONG way to go and he's going to need proper coaching to get there.

 

PS.  Were you there yesterday?  (bet you weren't )  Did you see any evidence of his touch?

 

You know when someone is defeated when they turn all supafan on you

 

Seriously, I genuinely think you've been harsh on Martins since he signed Gemmill and while there is a lot of truth in what you're saying, it is becoming a bit of a broken record with you, with each poor performance Martins puts in, being amplified to the point you even, shock horror, start a thread about it, which is rarer than hens teeth round these parts

 

PS No I wasn't at the match, to be fair. 

To be fair, I can't remember any thread Gemmill has started about this topic before...

 

I can't remember Gemmill starting ANY thread to be fair. He does like to mention Martins' poor movement, control etc. on a consistent basis though.

 

Maybe because it's consistently poor?

 

You obviously didn't see him against Liverpool at home, Spurs, Hammers, Blackburn away, AZ at home and Chelsea at home in the LC, then

[ElDiablo]

Concentration, thats all i think it is. Sometimes he's already moving with the ball before he's got it under control, takes his eye off it a lot aswell, allowing the defender to nick it away.  Agree with the behind play point aswell, he's always playing catch up, and moves after the ball is played.

[Guest Gemmill]

22 years old, new league, 16 goals, shit side, shit tactics, shit partner and average manager.

 

None of which explains poor touch or movement.  I've said he's done well to score as many goals as he has, but nobody can tell me that the lad has good touch or good movement, and he will always be a very limited player unless he (with the help of coaching) sorts that out.  I hope he does.  It's unlikely he'll do that in a black and white shirt.

[Guest Gemmill]

Why single out one of our better players, someone who has done well this season? We constantly piss on the good things at Newcastle. Shearer scored 30 goals in SBR's first season in charge but a regular moan was "he's not the player he once was" FFS, Martins is 22. Robert scored and created lots of goals yet one of the moans was "he's a lazy b******", Bellamy "misses too many one on ones", Shay "can't command his box"...

 

I agree with some of your points Gemmill but I would be more concerned if he was showing these failings week in week out - he doesn't however and has shown he can link up play, pass the ball and control it well. We now need to coax that out of him on a regular basis to good effect. It would be unfair to judge him this critically at such a young age in terms of development, least of all playing in a s**** team that is going nowhere. The acid test will be next season and beyond.

 

I agree with you about Crouch BTW, a player I've always liked and rated, he's a decent player and anyone who saw his goals yesterday, will know that. I still wouldn't like him at the club though, as he'd cost crazy money and I'd fear by having such a tall man who isn't the best in the air believe it or not, would give us an excuse to play it long all the time, something we do regulalry anyway with cock-height Martins up front.

 

What's your point then?  You agree with a lot of what I say, but then say I shouldn't be saying it?  He's shown you he can control the ball well?  Has he been doing this in private cos he's not doing it at SJP that's for f****** sure.

 

My point is why single out Martins and make what for me are absurd comments such as "could still yet prove to be an expensive flop" or words to that effect, when in reality he has done very well this season and shown more than enough that there is a great deal of potential there. You've claimed that people overrate him (they do) yet for me, you're just as bad with your over the top critical assessment. Yes his control, movement etc. isn't the best and he's a frustrating player, all things I agree with you on, but you make it out to be a lot worse than it actually is or give that impression.

 

As for the games where he has shown good control etc. - Liverpool at home, Spurs, Hammers, Blackburn away, AZ at home (I thought he was sparkling) and Chelsea at home in the LC come to mind, where he did well, in my opinion anyway.

 

What Martins needs and so do we, is a good partner, we also need to stop playing balls 10 feet in the air for him to try and get on the end of, and to use his assets such as his pace, to play to his strengths and hope in time his overall game will develop enough.

 

I personally think he has done amazingly well this season to make a mark given the service and the anal tactics being deployed, to score 16 goals in this abject team is no mean feat. To be hyper critical as you have been pretty much since day one though, is being harsh.

 

Jesus Christ lad, what is hyper-critical about pointing out that the lad's movement and control are poor?  They ARE by the way, you can deny that all you like and list 6 games from an entire season where he's demonstrated a good touch, but that's not enough.  His touch is consitently worse than Shola's, which only serves to prove that on the occasions he gets it right, it's more through luck than him actually having a good touch.  Jesus, anyone can get it right from time to time.  More often than not his touch is poor, and more often than not his movement is poor.  Name your top 6 Martins games as evidence that he's great if you like, but don't expect me not to point to the rest of the time as evidence that he's got a LONG way to go and he's going to need proper coaching to get there.

 

PS.  Were you there yesterday?  (bet you weren't )  Did you see any evidence of his touch?

 

You know when someone is defeated when they turn all supafan on you

 

Seriously, I genuinely think you've been harsh on Martins since he signed Gemmill and while there is a lot of truth in what you're saying, it is becoming a bit of a broken record with you, with each poor performance Martins puts in, being amplified to the point you even, shock horror, start a thread about it, which is rarer than hens teeth round these parts

 

PS No I wasn't at the match, to be fair. 

To be fair, I can't remember any thread Gemmill has started about this topic before...

 

I can't remember Gemmill starting ANY thread to be fair. He does like to mention Martins' poor movement, control etc. on a consistent basis though.

 

Maybe because it's consistently poor?

 

You obviously didn't see him against Liverpool at home, Spurs, Hammers, Blackburn away, AZ at home and Chelsea at home in the LC, then

 

I think those might be the only 6 games of his you've seen.  Were they on the telly?

[Yorkie]

22 years old, new league, 16 goals, shit side, shit tactics, shit partner and average manager.

 

None of which explains poor touch or movement.  I've said he's done well to score as many goals as he has, but nobody can tell me that the lad has good touch or good movement, and he will always be a very limited player unless he (with the help of coaching) sorts that out.  I hope he does.  It's unlikely he'll do that in a black and white shirt.

[Cajun]

22 years old, new league, 16 goals, shit side, shit tactics, shit partner and average manager.

 

None of which explains poor touch or movement.  I've said he's done well to score as many goals as he has, but nobody can tell me that the lad has good touch or good movement, and he will always be a very limited player unless he (with the help of coaching) sorts that out.  I hope he does.  It's unlikely he'll do that in a black and white shirt.

 

I think the poster above you has hit on it slightly in regards to his poor touch, he is often already on his way before the ball has even got to him. He is under a hell of a lot of pressure and is basically expected to do most of our attacking work as he hasn't had a quality striker to help carry the load. Give him some games with someone who will take some of the load off and then see if he is under less pressure and can concentrate on collecting the ball and where he needs to be.

[Guest Knightrider]

Why single out one of our better players, someone who has done well this season? We constantly piss on the good things at Newcastle. Shearer scored 30 goals in SBR's first season in charge but a regular moan was "he's not the player he once was" FFS, Martins is 22. Robert scored and created lots of goals yet one of the moans was "he's a lazy b******", Bellamy "misses too many one on ones", Shay "can't command his box"...

 

I agree with some of your points Gemmill but I would be more concerned if he was showing these failings week in week out - he doesn't however and has shown he can link up play, pass the ball and control it well. We now need to coax that out of him on a regular basis to good effect. It would be unfair to judge him this critically at such a young age in terms of development, least of all playing in a s**** team that is going nowhere. The acid test will be next season and beyond.

 

I agree with you about Crouch BTW, a player I've always liked and rated, he's a decent player and anyone who saw his goals yesterday, will know that. I still wouldn't like him at the club though, as he'd cost crazy money and I'd fear by having such a tall man who isn't the best in the air believe it or not, would give us an excuse to play it long all the time, something we do regulalry anyway with cock-height Martins up front.

 

What's your point then?  You agree with a lot of what I say, but then say I shouldn't be saying it?  He's shown you he can control the ball well?  Has he been doing this in private cos he's not doing it at SJP that's for f****** sure.

 

My point is why single out Martins and make what for me are absurd comments such as "could still yet prove to be an expensive flop" or words to that effect, when in reality he has done very well this season and shown more than enough that there is a great deal of potential there. You've claimed that people overrate him (they do) yet for me, you're just as bad with your over the top critical assessment. Yes his control, movement etc. isn't the best and he's a frustrating player, all things I agree with you on, but you make it out to be a lot worse than it actually is or give that impression.

 

As for the games where he has shown good control etc. - Liverpool at home, Spurs, Hammers, Blackburn away, AZ at home (I thought he was sparkling) and Chelsea at home in the LC come to mind, where he did well, in my opinion anyway.

 

What Martins needs and so do we, is a good partner, we also need to stop playing balls 10 feet in the air for him to try and get on the end of, and to use his assets such as his pace, to play to his strengths and hope in time his overall game will develop enough.

 

I personally think he has done amazingly well this season to make a mark given the service and the anal tactics being deployed, to score 16 goals in this abject team is no mean feat. To be hyper critical as you have been pretty much since day one though, is being harsh.

 

Jesus Christ lad, what is hyper-critical about pointing out that the lad's movement and control are poor?  They ARE by the way, you can deny that all you like and list 6 games from an entire season where he's demonstrated a good touch, but that's not enough.  His touch is consitently worse than Shola's, which only serves to prove that on the occasions he gets it right, it's more through luck than him actually having a good touch.  Jesus, anyone can get it right from time to time.  More often than not his touch is poor, and more often than not his movement is poor.  Name your top 6 Martins games as evidence that he's great if you like, but don't expect me not to point to the rest of the time as evidence that he's got a LONG way to go and he's going to need proper coaching to get there.

 

PS.  Were you there yesterday?  (bet you weren't )  Did you see any evidence of his touch?

 

You know when someone is defeated when they turn all supafan on you

 

Seriously, I genuinely think you've been harsh on Martins since he signed Gemmill and while there is a lot of truth in what you're saying, it is becoming a bit of a broken record with you, with each poor performance Martins puts in, being amplified to the point you even, shock horror, start a thread about it, which is rarer than hens teeth round these parts

 

PS No I wasn't at the match, to be fair. 

To be fair, I can't remember any thread Gemmill has started about this topic before...

 

I can't remember Gemmill starting ANY thread to be fair. He does like to mention Martins' poor movement, control etc. on a consistent basis though.

 

Maybe because it's consistently poor?

 

You obviously didn't see him against Liverpool at home, Spurs, Hammers, Blackburn away, AZ at home and Chelsea at home in the LC, then

 

I think those might be the only 6 games of his you've seen.  Were they on the telly?

 

You see more on the telly, as they zoom in.

[Guest Knightrider]

Martins will come good, he has shown he can control the ball and position himself to take a chance or two, it is all about consistency and fine tuning now.

[Isegrim]

22 years old, new league, 16 goals, s*** side, s*** tactics, s*** partner and average manager. He has done very well, he has his faults but he is still a good player and certainly not the only striker who looks poor when they don't score (Owen).

 

People complain that he hangs around the edge of the box too much but this is probably due to the way his game has developed and having strike partners in the past who are the poachers. With our problems this season Martins is expected to do ALL the work that 2 strikers would do and thats an unfair expectation.

He had no real strike partners in the past as he wasn't a first team regular. And I doubt you could call the likes of Adriano etc. vall poachers.

 

Of course he has done well in the terms of scoring a lot important goals. But on the other side he had a lot of absolutely awful games. I fail to see why you are not allowed to point it out. His questionable movement, anticipation and ball control let him down in a lot of games and as a result let the team down. Results like yesterday's are a reflection of this. Of course he does have great assets, but they are worth nothing if he isn't learning to use them in the right way. Why shouldn't people be sceptical after having seen little progress in those terms over the whole season? Of course you can blame a lot other factors like the manager, the other players, the baggage retrieval system they got at Heathrow etc., but in the end you have to look at Martins as well. The style of play of the team isn't good, but it's hardly getting better if Martins isn't working on his game and actually start to use his skills like his pace and give other players real options.

[Guest Knightrider]

OK the negatives have been well discussed, 16 goals despite being a shite player playing in a shite team, now imagine his return playing in a good side and actually losing some of those faults of his... That's what I look at.

[Guest Gemmill]

22 years old, new league, 16 goals, shit side, shit tactics, shit partner and average manager.

 

None of which explains poor touch or movement.  I've said he's done well to score as many goals as he has, but nobody can tell me that the lad has good touch or good movement, and he will always be a very limited player unless he (with the help of coaching) sorts that out.  I hope he does.  It's unlikely he'll do that in a black and white shirt.

 

I would hope he'd have had some sort of touch already tbh.  Serie A, International football, and now the Premiership, and he can't trap a ball?

 

Anyway, I've said my bit.  I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that the lad's touch and movement aren't poor in the main - there's the odd occasion where it looks great, but on a consistent basis it lets him down.  HTT can name 6 matches from the season where he's shown he can do it, and I would point to most of the rest to say that he can't.  I hope he comes good.  We'll see.

[Syrette]

22 years old, new league, 16 goals, shit side, shit tactics, shit partner and average manager.

 

None of which explains poor touch or movement.  I've said he's done well to score as many goals as he has, but nobody can tell me that the lad has good touch or good movement, and he will always be a very limited player unless he (with the help of coaching) sorts that out.  I hope he does.  It's unlikely he'll do that in a black and white shirt.

 

I would hope he'd have had some sort of touch already tbh.  Serie A, International football, and now the Premiership, and he can't trap a ball?

 

Anyway, I've said my bit.  I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that the lad's touch and movement aren't poor in the main - there's the odd occasion where it looks great, but on a consistent basis it lets him down.  HTT can name 6 matches from the season where he's shown he can do it, and I would point to most of the rest to say that he can't.  I hope he comes good.  We'll see.

 

16 goals isn't good?

[Isegrim]

OK the negatives have been well discussed, 16 goals despite being a s**** player playing in a s**** team, now imagine his return playing in a good side and actually losing some of those faults of his... That's what I look at.

And I look at what I see now and not at hypothetical scenarios.

[Cajun]

I never said people can't do x,y or z tbh.

 

My comments were mainly in responce to the people going a little OTT calling him a glorified sprinter etc..

 

He does need to improve if he wants to be a top striker but he is still a good striker with the rough edges he has at the moment. He does have very poor games but then a lot of players do, I hope he does work on the poorer sides of his game and gets more consistant but im confident he wont turn out a flop.

[Guest Gemmill]

OK the negatives have been well discussed, 16 goals despite being a shite player playing in a shite team, now imagine his return playing in a good side and actually losing some of those faults of his... That's what I look at.

 

  What sort of an argument is that?  "Ok so his movement is poor and his touch is poor.  Imagine what would happen if they all of a sudden weren't poor!"

[Guest Gemmill]

22 years old, new league, 16 goals, shit side, shit tactics, shit partner and average manager.

 

None of which explains poor touch or movement.  I've said he's done well to score as many goals as he has, but nobody can tell me that the lad has good touch or good movement, and he will always be a very limited player unless he (with the help of coaching) sorts that out.  I hope he does.  It's unlikely he'll do that in a black and white shirt.

 

I would hope he'd have had some sort of touch already tbh.  Serie A, International football, and now the Premiership, and he can't trap a ball?

 

Anyway, I've said my bit.  I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that the lad's touch and movement aren't poor in the main - there's the odd occasion where it looks great, but on a consistent basis it lets him down.  HTT can name 6 matches from the season where he's shown he can do it, and I would point to most of the rest to say that he can't.  I hope he comes good.  We'll see.

 

16 goals isn't good?

 

Fucking hell lad, I've said that 16 goals is a good return.  I'm also commenting that his touch and movement are consistently poor and his overall game suffers as a result.  Watch the lad play and you will see it for yourself.

[BottledDog]

OK the negatives have been well discussed, 16 goals despite being a shite player playing in a shite team, now imagine his return playing in a good side and actually losing some of those faults of his... That's what I look at.

 

  What sort of an argument is that?  "Ok so his movement is poor and his touch is poor.  Imagine what would happen if they all of a sudden weren't poor!"